4 ms·

I think this demand is dangerous for people in the West, because it will accelerate the (inevitable) global pay harmonisation. An average Polish software develo

I think this demand is dangerous for people in the West, because it will accelerate the (inevitable) global pay harmonisation. An average Polish software developer gets about 27000 USD per year. In the US, it's 108000 USD/year. Do you really want equal pay? Do you think, being in 6-9 hours away and speaking better English is enough to demand almost four times the salary? I wouldn't want to bet on it.

marcus_holmes 6y ago
Isn't this the same thing that happened with India, though? At some point the entire subcontinent seemed to be working in support or engineering for Western companies. And then it kinda balanced out. It's still definitely a thing, but it didn't kill Western software development rates as people predicted (it did kill IBM though, as people predicted).
FartyMcFarter 6y ago
> Do you really want equal pay? And conversely for a company: do you really want to spread out your developers over very disparate timezones, different cultures etc?
- gambiting 6y ago
  Well the argument that the author makes is crucially about one argument - "equal work". For it to be really equal, these external influences cannot have an impact, and we know as a fact that they do.
  - cheph 6y ago
    The author really does not make that argument, they make the argument that your location does not affect your work, not that all people should get equal pay for equal work. But this ignores the fact that the labour market in the whole of the US is not the same as the labour market in SV - so it is a pretty poor argument.
gambiting 6y ago
On the other hand(and I'm Polish myself) you can live an exceptionally good life in Poland for 27k USD/year. Living in Poland I'd be happy to accept a salary that makes me very comfortable financially, even if theoretically the same position elsewhere pays more. I think most people get it wrong - it's not that people living in cheaper locations are underpaid. It's people living in more expensive locations that are massively overpaid. Just because a software engineer in SF can make $100k/year doesn't mean that's what the position is worth, it just means these companies are massively overpaying.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Those companies are not massively overpaying. The cost of living acts as a filter so that only the most productive software jobs are done there. Take any industry and imagine if you could "kidnap" the top 10% of workers into a city. Suddenly it would look like workers in that industry are highly paid. It's like survivorship bias. You only see the good parts.
- sz4kerto 6y ago
  > exceptionally good life in Poland Compared to your environment, sure. However, you'll never drive a Tesla and buy $4000 road bikes when you're on $27k/y. > Just because a software engineer in SF can make $100k/year doesn't mean that's what the position is worth It means exactly that in a free market capitalism (and while we're not living in a pure free market, we're not _that_ far). Why would a company overpay? (Sometimes they do, but not 4x, and not consistently.) In case everyone's massively overpaying in SV, then you could just start a company there and pay people half the salaries and be extremely competitive.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    >>However, you'll never drive a Tesla and buy $4000 road bikes when you're on $27k/y. But I'll easily buy a 6 bed house with lots of land, something that pretty much no one in SV can afford, so.....what do I need that Tesla for?
  - bumbada 6y ago
neilwilson 6y ago
You can't have global pay harmonisation in floating rate currencies. Harmonisation is fixed exchange rate thinking. It would happen between Scotland and London, but not (to the same extent) between Poland and London. Once you move something abroad the output becomes an import which ultimately has to be balanced by an export (or mercantilist tricks which is a whole other discussion - see China for details). The correct response would be to unionise, rather than throw hands up in the air and continue to feel exploited. There is a shortage of skilled staff. If your current employer doesn't appreciate you, then find one that does.
- cheph 6y ago
  > The correct response would be to unionise, rather than throw hands up in the air and continue to feel exploited. Why not just find another employer which pays the rate that you want? And if you can't do that, why do you deserve that rate?

marcus_holmes 6y ago

Isn't this the same thing that happened with India, though? At some point the entire subcontinent seemed to be working in support or engineering for Western companies. And then it kinda balanced out. It's still definitely a thing, but it didn't kill Western software development rates as people predicted (it did kill IBM though, as people predicted).

FartyMcFarter 6y ago

> Do you really want equal pay? And conversely for a company: do you really want to spread out your developers over very disparate timezones, different cultures etc?

gambiting 6y ago
Well the argument that the author makes is crucially about one argument - "equal work". For it to be really equal, these external influences cannot have an impact, and we know as a fact that they do.
- cheph 6y ago
  The author really does not make that argument, they make the argument that your location does not affect your work, not that all people should get equal pay for equal work. But this ignores the fact that the labour market in the whole of the US is not the same as the labour market in SV - so it is a pretty poor argument.

gambiting 6y ago

On the other hand(and I'm Polish myself) you can live an exceptionally good life in Poland for 27k USD/year. Living in Poland I'd be happy to accept a salary that makes me very comfortable financially, even if theoretically the same position elsewhere pays more. I think most people get it wrong - it's not that people living in cheaper locations are underpaid. It's people living in more expensive locations that are massively overpaid. Just because a software engineer in SF can make $100k/year doesn't mean that's what the position is worth, it just means these companies are massively overpaying.

imtringued 6y ago
Those companies are not massively overpaying. The cost of living acts as a filter so that only the most productive software jobs are done there. Take any industry and imagine if you could "kidnap" the top 10% of workers into a city. Suddenly it would look like workers in that industry are highly paid. It's like survivorship bias. You only see the good parts.
sz4kerto 6y ago
> exceptionally good life in Poland Compared to your environment, sure. However, you'll never drive a Tesla and buy $4000 road bikes when you're on $27k/y. > Just because a software engineer in SF can make $100k/year doesn't mean that's what the position is worth It means exactly that in a free market capitalism (and while we're not living in a pure free market, we're not _that_ far). Why would a company overpay? (Sometimes they do, but not 4x, and not consistently.) In case everyone's massively overpaying in SV, then you could just start a company there and pay people half the salaries and be extremely competitive.
- gambiting 6y ago
  >>However, you'll never drive a Tesla and buy $4000 road bikes when you're on $27k/y. But I'll easily buy a 6 bed house with lots of land, something that pretty much no one in SV can afford, so.....what do I need that Tesla for?
- bumbada 6y ago

neilwilson 6y ago

You can't have global pay harmonisation in floating rate currencies. Harmonisation is fixed exchange rate thinking. It would happen between Scotland and London, but not (to the same extent) between Poland and London. Once you move something abroad the output becomes an import which ultimately has to be balanced by an export (or mercantilist tricks which is a whole other discussion - see China for details). The correct response would be to unionise, rather than throw hands up in the air and continue to feel exploited. There is a shortage of skilled staff. If your current employer doesn't appreciate you, then find one that does.

cheph 6y ago
> The correct response would be to unionise, rather than throw hands up in the air and continue to feel exploited. Why not just find another employer which pays the rate that you want? And if you can't do that, why do you deserve that rate?