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You’re angry. I’ve felt this in a trademark lawsuit. You think the world should get behind you and change the corrupt system. My advice is to immediately rebra

You’re angry. I’ve felt this in a trademark lawsuit. You think the world should get behind you and change the corrupt system. My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition. They kind of have a point which doesn’t make them right, but they hold all the cards and you will lose this one and regret the wasted bandwidth.

dstick 6y ago
Unfortunately I concur, if this is your main thing. If you can outsource it: let the lawyers duke it out. If this feels personal: follow mmaunder’s advice. There are no winners in that scenario so just take back control.
valuearb 6y ago
I like “Up All Night” as a new name. Icon image could be people partying in their pajamas. While taking amphetamines.
- Hnrobert42 6y ago
  I wonder if that phrase is still protected by the USA network, for those of you old enough to remember when regular ol’ cable would show topless women. Now you can’t name an app Amphetamine. It is interesting to watch the pendulum swing.
- flurdy 6y ago
  Insomnia might already be another app but seems appropriate name.
sschueller 6y ago
No, how will this ever fix a corrupt system if you play by their rules? This is why it keeps getting worse and worse. People just comply!
- hshshs2 6y ago
  They’re a $2 trillion dollar company, unless you have an incredibly strong case (this isn’t one) then you will lose a war of attrition every time... even sometimes if you do have a strong case. Choose your battles wisely, live to fight another day, etc... Pound for pound you’d likely be better off putting your energy into policy. The scale is still tilted there, but there is some traction behind fairer app marketplaces.
  - Yetanfou 6y ago
    You do this by leaving the platform. There are plenty of alternatives for Apple's products so those who get tired of the ever-increasing censorship inside the walled garden are better off outside of its walls. Eventually the Apple world will become something akin to Disneyland, nothing but "wholesome" infotainment without anything that could give offence.
    - Hnrobert42 6y ago
      Do you really believe the app developers should close their doors and stop making the app rather than change their name, all as part of an ideological fight? I just want to make sure that is really your good faith argument.
      - Yetanfou 6y ago
        Yes, I really do believe there is no fighting a $2 billion (and counting) behemoth, other than by shunning it. If enough developers and users - in any order - leave their platform they will reconsider their stance. That is, after all, what it means to have (at least the semblance of) a free market where people make choices based on things like this. The same goes for the other digital empires, whether those be Facebook, Twitter, Google or any of the others. Absent regulation - and is regulation really where we want to go? - I do not see any other way than to "choose with (my) wallet". This is also why I do not use any of these platforms, instead having spent the time to rig up my own alternatives: Google-free AOSP-derived Android on mobiles and tablets, Linux on laptops and servers, Searx for search, Nextcloud for "cloudy things", NC Talk and Jitsi Meet for videoconferencing, Exim and Dovecot for mail, Peertube for video, Airsonic and MPD for media streaming, etc. I've been doing this since the late 90's of the last century (minus the mobile stuff since that simply did not exist back then...) so I can state with certainty that this is not just hollow rhetoric, it is a viable alternative to submitting to the whims of companies like Apple (et al).
DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
Agreed. I've found that there's a meta-skill in life: accepting that one can't right every injustice, and to not let that fact prevent you from being happy.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  Sure, but that also doesn't mean you should stop voicing your concerns publicly at injustice. Being angry at some injustice doesn't automatically make you unhappy too, if the anger is used constructively and positively. You can voice your concern and be practical too. The article is actually quite well written and even highlights, with examples, how Apple applies such naming rules arbitrarily. I've said this before - all developers who distribute their apps through the macOS / ios app store should feel like a JACKASS for not only giving Apple control over distribution, but also paying them for the same. YOU DEVELOPERS ARE THE ONE WHO CREATE MORE VALUE FOR THESE APPLE PLATFORMS - why in the hell do you think it is some kind of "privilege" to PAY them for it?? With its exclusive app store, Apple acts like a CORRUPT bureaucrat who unnecessarily imposes himself in the middle of you and your clients, demanding a bribe from both to connect you and them. Thus, increasing costs for your clients, and reducing your profits! Especially on the macOS, which Apple is desperately trying to turn into a closed platform like ios, developers are being incredibly SHORT-SIGHTED by distributing apps on its app store and adding more value to something that will end up hurting them when everyone's choice is ultimately limited to it.
  - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
    > Being angry at some injustice doesn't automatically make you unhappy too I guess I was assuming that anger and happiness are somewhat mutually exclusive.
    - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
      Learning not to be offended is a great skill to learn. It applies to both sides here: Apple could continue to choose not to be offended after 6 years. The developer could choose not to be offended at Apple’s decision and rebrand. Having said that, this is censorship any way you look at it. Whether it’s “valid” censorship depends on your point of view.
Spivak 6y ago
Yeah, I’m sure this rule is applied inconsistently but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay your speeding ticket just because everyone speeds. This app associates itself with the recreational use of amphetamines in much the same vein as candy cigarettes. Is the rule kinda stupid? Yep. Is it ultimately a cultural thing? Yep. But it’s Apple’s sandbox and you’re playing in it. There’s always going to be issues of where to draw the line. “Columbine. A bulk process killer.” is obviously over it but amphetamines could go either way. Just rebrand to something else and get back to actually making useful stuff.
- bserge 6y ago
  Yeah, the real lesson here is stop giving Apple et al control. You play on their ground, they own you. It's getting really hard to do these days, sadly. Rename it to "AppToKeepMacAwake" heh
  - bravoetch 6y ago
    MacQuake.
ffhhj 6y ago
But the controversy is giving them media attention.
dj_mc_merlin 6y ago
That advice is better for the individual, but these constant complaints that reach social platforms do eventually add up and cause change. The author doesn't have as much to lose here as if he were running a business. Choosing to die on this hill is respectable.
DubiousPusher 6y ago
> They kind of have a point How is just using the word or a charicature of it encouraging drug use? This puritanism is a mind disease.
- burnthrow 6y ago
  Puritanism? These are Macs, this is a classy place, we take our drugs to the bathroom thank you very much. Amphetamine.app is so gauche!
- icefrakker 6y ago
  Yeah and I'm sure you'd have no problem with your kids using an app that happens to be called Pedophile. Or maybe you'd have no problem with your wife using an app called Slut. After all those are just words and you don't suffer mind diseases.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  Agreed. Learning not to be offended by things is a skill that is worth learning. It is also the road the tolerance.
- loceng 6y ago
  Literalism - if we follow Apple's logic then they're not giving us an apple when buying their products.
Bodell 6y ago
Honestly if your name your product stupid things I would think that some of us might be choosing not to download your product as a result. And if a store decides not to sell your product because of this it’s really their prerogative. Saying you violated their terms with impunity for 6 years doesn’t mean they lose the right to correct the mistake. This name is pretty rings rather badly in my ears, though I’m not offended by such things. I’d feel similarly if they had named it “fuck sleep”. I’m not offended by the word “fuck” but I don’t really want to buy products that are named that. Do apps need energy drink names to be successful? I’ve noticed a trend in talking about men’s balls in ads, manscaping, underwater fart jokes. It’s seems so much like idiocracy more then something offensive. On the other hand a rose is still a rose. So I agree they should probably just rename it. I doubt there would be any major loss from doing so.
- bserge 6y ago
  [Sorry, I'm a bit hyped up at the moment] This is all ridiculous and I don't like where we're headed as a society.
  - tshaddox 6y ago
    I don’t buy your claim that there’s a double standard here. “Beer bong” would be another bad name for this app that I wouldn’t blame Apple for restricting. This isn’t about the arguably mixed up public policies that treat certain drugs as more dangerous than other drugs.
  - shawnz 6y ago
    Anything that could have offensive connotations could also be trivialized as "just a [noun]". That doesn't make it any more or less likely to be taken badly by the intended customer base
  - Bodell 6y ago
    I’m very glad you brought up weed actually. See I have no problem with weed and like to smoke a joint every now and then. However what I don’t want is to have to buy weed called dumb things like “bro down”, “the obliterator”, and “brain destroyer”. I’d much rather you just named something not so click baity. Sure it’s just a chemical. Everything is just chemicals but I don’t need “meth” for my computer. Same reason our kids don’t need toys advertised as “crack for your baby”. Agin not offended its just not a good name. Even if let’s say you build an app that’s hooks into some other program and you sell said app for two dollars, you may think it’s hilarious to call it “two dollar hooker”, hell I myself might even chuckle. But only once, then I’ll just get annoyed every time I see “two dollar hooker” in startup, “two dollar hooker has crashed” etc. I also would not buy your product if it were called alcohol poisoning. I love alcohol. I’m drinking a beer right now (happy New Years everyone). But naming a computer program after it sounds like an odd thing to do. And more to your point would also be a violation of the same rule Apple is using in this case.
xwalltime 6y ago
I disagree. First, I recommend sending this to the following people: - Any congressional representatives that target Apple for antitrust - Facebook's PR team. - Various tech new outlets If anyone is willing to make a big case out of this then you can use that media attention to grow your application's user base. This has potential for easy free advertisement through media controversy. After you have gotten enough free advertisement, go forward with this recommendation of changing your branding.
- medium_burrito 6y ago
  Epic's PR team too.
karaterobot 6y ago
They don't have a point based on the wording of their own rule, because amphetamines are not a class of controlled substances. They don't have a point based on basic common sense either, because this application isn't telling people to use amphetamines. It's a metaphor.
- philwelch 6y ago
  > amphetamines are not a class of controlled substances My pharmacist would disagree with that statement.
- issamehh 6y ago
  Amphetamine is very much a controlled substance in the US. You can receive it legally with a prescription of course but that does not mean it isn't controlled. Of course it's just a name. There shouldn't be an argument that it's encouraging use
- pflats 6y ago
  To add a little detail to what others said, amphetamine and its salts are explicitly a Schedule II controlled substance in the US. https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1308/1308_12.htm https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1308/1308_12.ht...
  - ardy42 6y ago
    > To add a little detail to what others said, amphetamine and its salts are explicitly a Schedule II controlled substance in the US. Though, Schedule II means it has accepted medical uses, so it is not illegal. For instance, lots of kids are prescribed amphetamines for ADHD. The part of the policy that actually references "controlled substances" only forbids apps that facilitate their sale by non-pharmacies. I think the GGP has a point if you replace "controlled substances" with "illegal drugs." The reviewer obviously seems to think the terms are synonymous (which is false), and banned the app under the clause that forbids "encourag[ing] consumption of ... illegal drugs." Leaving everything else aside, this reviewer pretty clearly failed to understand and reasonably apply the policy as written. Reference != promotion and "controlled substance" != "illegal drugs" (all illegal drugs are controlled substances, but the reverse is not true).
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
> They kind of have a point They don't (the claim is the app promotes drug use, which it doesn't), and it's quite likely that it's a reviewer mistake that will be overturned once the stink on social media gets big enough to reach the right person.
- Angostura 6y ago
  > the claim is the app promotes drug use, which it doesn't You don't think it could reinforce the idea that Amphetamines could be a useful tool to preserve wakefulness?
  - nyx_ 6y ago
    Like the original post says, they are in fact a useful tool to promote wakefulness, and if you have a problem with wakefulness or attentiveness, you can go to a doctor, get diagnosed, and be prescribed with amphetamines perfectly legally if you so wish.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - incongruity 6y ago
    Well - they do actually do that and under certain circumstances, they are used precisely for that. I find the puritanical mindset a little bit of an overreach here.
  - zamadatix 6y ago
    You can refrence a truth without promoting it. E.g. Darik's boot and nuke wipes everything but you'd be off your rocker to say it's promoting nuclear war as a result.
  - dack 6y ago
    Not op, but no; the app has nothing to do with drugs. I don't think we as a society should be this sensitive/prone to suggestion. If anything, I believe the censorship promotes the idea that people have no responsibility to make their own choices, and we must build to the lowest common denominator. Note, I'm not really making a judgement about whether Apple should be allowed to do this - I think that is harder question.
RedditKon 6y ago
Exactly. I use something identical called "caffeine". Just rebrand to Jolt and be done with it.
permo-w 6y ago
Caffeine would be an easy answer to the rebranding question
- canofbars 6y ago
  I just did a search and found multiple apps with that name already.
- glerk 6y ago
  There is already an app called "Caffeine" that serves the same purpose.
- redwall_hp 6y ago
  Caffeine was the old application that Amphetamine replaced. It was a long-standing utility that went unmaintained after Apple switched to the retina displays.
  - dempseye 6y ago
    Really? I am still using it. It works fine with a Retina display, which is the only Apple display I've ever had. 2014 MBP 15 here.
- rwc 6y ago
  Not so easy: https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/24120/caffeine https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/24120/caffeine
webmobdev 6y ago
> My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition. Apple will definitely appreciate it if all of us would just shut up and let them screw us. While I appreciate your well-meaning advise to the author - pick your battles in life carefully - I'd like to add that using your anger constructively at some injustice is a positive move too. You do have to accept some things in life are beyond your control. But it does not mean you should not be an advocate for necessary change. Speaking up is the beginning. (And in fact, more positive to your well-being). And you can even stop with that. But speak up. The author has made some good arguments and I urge everyone to read it. Irrespective, of what the author ultimately decides to do, he should be glad for having the courage to speak up. And that many of us appreciate it and support him. Apple shouldn't forget that while it may have hoodwinked many developers to pay them for the "privilege" of creating and distributing apps on their platform, it is the developers who are the ones adding more VALUE to their platform. And that there's a limit to how much you can abuse and gauge them (one would have that all the law suits on the app store would have made them realised that by now).
- 0xEFF 6y ago
  Do you expect to see a box on a shelf of any retail store labeled, “Amphetamine” with a colorful picture of drugs? It’s entirely reasonable for the retail store to tell the vendor to rename the product or else it will be removed from the shelf.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    No, because at a retail store the expectation is that if I see a box labeled "amphetamine" it better contain actual amphetamine. Obviously that's not acceptable, so it's not going to happen. When I buy software, I certainly don't expect to get drugs. When I buy a game called "Surgeon Simulator" I don't expect to receive actual surgeon training any more than I expect to get amphetamine after getting an app called amphetamine.
    - MauranKilom 6y ago
A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
I hate to agree with you, because I think I know what the 'right' thing is from my perspective. Sometimes to make a change, you have to fight and, likely, lose. You don't always effect change by winning. That said, I am not sure I would be willing to make that kind of decision.. and thankfully that is not my decision to make here. I too recommend live to run another day approach ( ala Rincewind ). ..then again, this may be the right time to do stand up to Apple. Current upheaval in tech, clear battle lines being drawn over everything from section 230 to app store could stack up things in your favor.. Still, it is only a chance.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  Yes, you should accept things over which you have no control, and you should speak up against injustice. Acceptance doesn't have to mean you can't advocate for change.
glitchc 6y ago
I concur with OP. Rebrand ASAP. Apple is looking for an excuse to shut your app down so that they can replace it with an in-house version. This is on purpose, they want you to feel outraged. If you take the bait and start a legal battle, you’ll play right into their hands. They will drag it out for years or until your money runs out. Far better to keep the money you have earned, recognizing that even the rebrand won’t save your app in the long run. It’s done.
- zackkitzmiller 6y ago
  Amphetamine is and has always been free. You can always just disable the screensaver on your Mac if you'd like. Amphetamine really helps when you have MDM installed or something that requires your computer to sleep every so often.
sangnoir 6y ago
Ah, I remember this infamous Apple ad: Here’s to the lazy ones, the mundane, the conformers, the rule-followers, the square pegs in the square holes… the ones who don't see things differently — they’re fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, you can also safely ignore them because they dare not change things… they keep the human race stagnant, and while some may see them as the lazy ones, we see order, because the ones who are lazy enough to know that they can't change the world, are the ones who won't try
- sebmellen 6y ago
  This is brilliant. I can't wait until we see an actual Apple ad with this script. Maybe 2021 will deliver!
- LeoNatan25 6y ago
  The Tim Cook era of Apple. This describes well Apple’s fanboy drones, but also the company engineering, product and design.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  If there was HN Gold, I would have given you some Sounds like the Ray Ozzie motto
- sneak 6y ago
  When I walk into the latest iteration of the Apple stores, the ones with those giant LED jumbotrons, I wonder whose job it is these days to throw the sledgehammer at the giant propaganda screen. This, too, shall pass.
endgame 6y ago
“He who is not angry, whereas he has cause to be, sins. For unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices, it fosters negligence, and incites not only the wicked but the good to do wrong.”
type0 6y ago
> My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition. They should be brave and rebrand it to Soma, nothing flies in the new world of apples and bananas.
javajosh 6y ago
This is one of those assertions that has the unusual property of being true if you believe it, and false if you don't. Like "I think this bank is going to fail!" Apple doesn't "hold all the cards" unless we believe it is so. The longer that belief is popular we will lose the option to fight when the stakes get higher.
factorialboy 6y ago
> but they hold all the cards.. It's a free app. There is no business to sustain. The indie dev can walk away, and app can die and Apple users will suffer.
filetmignon 6y ago
This is absolutely horrid, imagine if Amazon could blacklist certain products they compete with
jchw 6y ago
I couldn’t disagree with this mentality more.
saagarjha 6y ago
No, they should not do this. They have six years of strong brand value, and they have a fairly solid case. And they have the world (well, part of the world at least) watching. Apple can and does change if you have those things, if you do it right. We did it with iSH (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252). If anything, this is their best opportunity to effect change, and I would very much hope they take it while they still have it.
wayanon 6y ago
I agree with this response 100%. Don’t use valuable mental calories on this. Just adapt. Use the saved energy on something more deserving of your time.
cynoclast 6y ago
Well said. And why you invest as little emotion as possible into business. You don't want to be wedded to anything but making money.
oauea 6y ago
Your advice pretty much equates to "just bend over and take it", which is a horrible thing to tell people.
m463 6y ago
Maybe you should name it "caffeinate"... Probably won't sell well in Utah. The name might also collide with apple's program "caffeinate" too.
_qulr 6y ago
"Just got off a call with @Apple. Appeal accepted and Amphetamine will remain on the @AppStore." https://twitter.com/x74353/status/1345421211677949957 https://twitter.com/x74353/status/1345421211677949957
- Solstinox 6y ago
  Contrary to the original comment above yours, squeaky wheel gets the grease.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    And my comment got downvoted of course. Because HN can't let pesky facts get in the way of good argument. This site, sigh.
dekhn 6y ago
On the contrary: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/2/22210295/apple-developer-amphetamine-app-violate-drug-app-store-rules https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/2/22210295/apple-developer-a... In this case, the complainer had several important details on their side: Apple had previously featured the app, the rule that they said was violated wasn't violated, and they tolerate other apps which violate those rules. It seems likely Apple realized in this case that it would be easier to keep the app since it's not like the app was ruining their family friendly image (although many people, especially in the US, picture the negative effects of methamphetamine additiction when they hear "amphetamine", amphetamine is actually an approved drug used by many in the US).
washadjeffmad 6y ago
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/02/amphetamine-app-store-removal-threat/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/02/amphetamine-app-store-r... Apple has reversed their position after the developer appealed. They did not lose anything or have to rebrand. Given this outcome and the minor expense in time it took to achieve, do you still stand by your advice that people should immediately support and enable a unilateral decision because there is a power difference between the parties? How has this updated your beliefs about the likelihood of amenable redress with the App Store appeals process?
- kryogen1c 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
sebmellen 6y ago
Thank God he didn't listen to you. Don't give up! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25618245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25618245.

dstick 6y ago

Unfortunately I concur, if this is your main thing. If you can outsource it: let the lawyers duke it out. If this feels personal: follow mmaunder’s advice. There are no winners in that scenario so just take back control.

valuearb 6y ago

I like “Up All Night” as a new name. Icon image could be people partying in their pajamas. While taking amphetamines.

Hnrobert42 6y ago
I wonder if that phrase is still protected by the USA network, for those of you old enough to remember when regular ol’ cable would show topless women. Now you can’t name an app Amphetamine. It is interesting to watch the pendulum swing.
flurdy 6y ago
Insomnia might already be another app but seems appropriate name.

sschueller 6y ago

No, how will this ever fix a corrupt system if you play by their rules? This is why it keeps getting worse and worse. People just comply!

hshshs2 6y ago
They’re a $2 trillion dollar company, unless you have an incredibly strong case (this isn’t one) then you will lose a war of attrition every time... even sometimes if you do have a strong case. Choose your battles wisely, live to fight another day, etc... Pound for pound you’d likely be better off putting your energy into policy. The scale is still tilted there, but there is some traction behind fairer app marketplaces.
- Yetanfou 6y ago
  You do this by leaving the platform. There are plenty of alternatives for Apple's products so those who get tired of the ever-increasing censorship inside the walled garden are better off outside of its walls. Eventually the Apple world will become something akin to Disneyland, nothing but "wholesome" infotainment without anything that could give offence.
  - Hnrobert42 6y ago
    Do you really believe the app developers should close their doors and stop making the app rather than change their name, all as part of an ideological fight? I just want to make sure that is really your good faith argument.
    - Yetanfou 6y ago
      Yes, I really do believe there is no fighting a $2 billion (and counting) behemoth, other than by shunning it. If enough developers and users - in any order - leave their platform they will reconsider their stance. That is, after all, what it means to have (at least the semblance of) a free market where people make choices based on things like this. The same goes for the other digital empires, whether those be Facebook, Twitter, Google or any of the others. Absent regulation - and is regulation really where we want to go? - I do not see any other way than to "choose with (my) wallet". This is also why I do not use any of these platforms, instead having spent the time to rig up my own alternatives: Google-free AOSP-derived Android on mobiles and tablets, Linux on laptops and servers, Searx for search, Nextcloud for "cloudy things", NC Talk and Jitsi Meet for videoconferencing, Exim and Dovecot for mail, Peertube for video, Airsonic and MPD for media streaming, etc. I've been doing this since the late 90's of the last century (minus the mobile stuff since that simply did not exist back then...) so I can state with certainty that this is not just hollow rhetoric, it is a viable alternative to submitting to the whims of companies like Apple (et al).

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago

Agreed. I've found that there's a meta-skill in life: accepting that one can't right every injustice, and to not let that fact prevent you from being happy.

webmobdev 6y ago
Sure, but that also doesn't mean you should stop voicing your concerns publicly at injustice. Being angry at some injustice doesn't automatically make you unhappy too, if the anger is used constructively and positively. You can voice your concern and be practical too. The article is actually quite well written and even highlights, with examples, how Apple applies such naming rules arbitrarily. I've said this before - all developers who distribute their apps through the macOS / ios app store should feel like a JACKASS for not only giving Apple control over distribution, but also paying them for the same. YOU DEVELOPERS ARE THE ONE WHO CREATE MORE VALUE FOR THESE APPLE PLATFORMS - why in the hell do you think it is some kind of "privilege" to PAY them for it?? With its exclusive app store, Apple acts like a CORRUPT bureaucrat who unnecessarily imposes himself in the middle of you and your clients, demanding a bribe from both to connect you and them. Thus, increasing costs for your clients, and reducing your profits! Especially on the macOS, which Apple is desperately trying to turn into a closed platform like ios, developers are being incredibly SHORT-SIGHTED by distributing apps on its app store and adding more value to something that will end up hurting them when everyone's choice is ultimately limited to it.
- DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
  > Being angry at some injustice doesn't automatically make you unhappy too I guess I was assuming that anger and happiness are somewhat mutually exclusive.
  - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
    Learning not to be offended is a great skill to learn. It applies to both sides here: Apple could continue to choose not to be offended after 6 years. The developer could choose not to be offended at Apple’s decision and rebrand. Having said that, this is censorship any way you look at it. Whether it’s “valid” censorship depends on your point of view.

Spivak 6y ago

Yeah, I’m sure this rule is applied inconsistently but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay your speeding ticket just because everyone speeds. This app associates itself with the recreational use of amphetamines in much the same vein as candy cigarettes. Is the rule kinda stupid? Yep. Is it ultimately a cultural thing? Yep. But it’s Apple’s sandbox and you’re playing in it. There’s always going to be issues of where to draw the line. “Columbine. A bulk process killer.” is obviously over it but amphetamines could go either way. Just rebrand to something else and get back to actually making useful stuff.

bserge 6y ago
Yeah, the real lesson here is stop giving Apple et al control. You play on their ground, they own you. It's getting really hard to do these days, sadly. Rename it to "AppToKeepMacAwake" heh
- bravoetch 6y ago
  MacQuake.

ffhhj 6y ago

But the controversy is giving them media attention.

dj_mc_merlin 6y ago

That advice is better for the individual, but these constant complaints that reach social platforms do eventually add up and cause change. The author doesn't have as much to lose here as if he were running a business. Choosing to die on this hill is respectable.

DubiousPusher 6y ago

> They kind of have a point How is just using the word or a charicature of it encouraging drug use? This puritanism is a mind disease.

burnthrow 6y ago
Puritanism? These are Macs, this is a classy place, we take our drugs to the bathroom thank you very much. Amphetamine.app is so gauche!
icefrakker 6y ago
Yeah and I'm sure you'd have no problem with your kids using an app that happens to be called Pedophile. Or maybe you'd have no problem with your wife using an app called Slut. After all those are just words and you don't suffer mind diseases.
TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
Agreed. Learning not to be offended by things is a skill that is worth learning. It is also the road the tolerance.
loceng 6y ago
Literalism - if we follow Apple's logic then they're not giving us an apple when buying their products.

Bodell 6y ago

Honestly if your name your product stupid things I would think that some of us might be choosing not to download your product as a result. And if a store decides not to sell your product because of this it’s really their prerogative. Saying you violated their terms with impunity for 6 years doesn’t mean they lose the right to correct the mistake. This name is pretty rings rather badly in my ears, though I’m not offended by such things. I’d feel similarly if they had named it “fuck sleep”. I’m not offended by the word “fuck” but I don’t really want to buy products that are named that. Do apps need energy drink names to be successful? I’ve noticed a trend in talking about men’s balls in ads, manscaping, underwater fart jokes. It’s seems so much like idiocracy more then something offensive. On the other hand a rose is still a rose. So I agree they should probably just rename it. I doubt there would be any major loss from doing so.

bserge 6y ago
[Sorry, I'm a bit hyped up at the moment] This is all ridiculous and I don't like where we're headed as a society.
- tshaddox 6y ago
  I don’t buy your claim that there’s a double standard here. “Beer bong” would be another bad name for this app that I wouldn’t blame Apple for restricting. This isn’t about the arguably mixed up public policies that treat certain drugs as more dangerous than other drugs.
- shawnz 6y ago
  Anything that could have offensive connotations could also be trivialized as "just a [noun]". That doesn't make it any more or less likely to be taken badly by the intended customer base
- Bodell 6y ago
  I’m very glad you brought up weed actually. See I have no problem with weed and like to smoke a joint every now and then. However what I don’t want is to have to buy weed called dumb things like “bro down”, “the obliterator”, and “brain destroyer”. I’d much rather you just named something not so click baity. Sure it’s just a chemical. Everything is just chemicals but I don’t need “meth” for my computer. Same reason our kids don’t need toys advertised as “crack for your baby”. Agin not offended its just not a good name. Even if let’s say you build an app that’s hooks into some other program and you sell said app for two dollars, you may think it’s hilarious to call it “two dollar hooker”, hell I myself might even chuckle. But only once, then I’ll just get annoyed every time I see “two dollar hooker” in startup, “two dollar hooker has crashed” etc. I also would not buy your product if it were called alcohol poisoning. I love alcohol. I’m drinking a beer right now (happy New Years everyone). But naming a computer program after it sounds like an odd thing to do. And more to your point would also be a violation of the same rule Apple is using in this case.

xwalltime 6y ago

I disagree. First, I recommend sending this to the following people: - Any congressional representatives that target Apple for antitrust - Facebook's PR team. - Various tech new outlets If anyone is willing to make a big case out of this then you can use that media attention to grow your application's user base. This has potential for easy free advertisement through media controversy. After you have gotten enough free advertisement, go forward with this recommendation of changing your branding.

medium_burrito 6y ago
Epic's PR team too.

karaterobot 6y ago

They don't have a point based on the wording of their own rule, because amphetamines are not a class of controlled substances. They don't have a point based on basic common sense either, because this application isn't telling people to use amphetamines. It's a metaphor.

philwelch 6y ago
> amphetamines are not a class of controlled substances My pharmacist would disagree with that statement.
issamehh 6y ago
Amphetamine is very much a controlled substance in the US. You can receive it legally with a prescription of course but that does not mean it isn't controlled. Of course it's just a name. There shouldn't be an argument that it's encouraging use
pflats 6y ago
To add a little detail to what others said, amphetamine and its salts are explicitly a Schedule II controlled substance in the US. https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1308/1308_12.htm https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1308/1308_12.ht...
- ardy42 6y ago
  > To add a little detail to what others said, amphetamine and its salts are explicitly a Schedule II controlled substance in the US. Though, Schedule II means it has accepted medical uses, so it is not illegal. For instance, lots of kids are prescribed amphetamines for ADHD. The part of the policy that actually references "controlled substances" only forbids apps that facilitate their sale by non-pharmacies. I think the GGP has a point if you replace "controlled substances" with "illegal drugs." The reviewer obviously seems to think the terms are synonymous (which is false), and banned the app under the clause that forbids "encourag[ing] consumption of ... illegal drugs." Leaving everything else aside, this reviewer pretty clearly failed to understand and reasonably apply the policy as written. Reference != promotion and "controlled substance" != "illegal drugs" (all illegal drugs are controlled substances, but the reverse is not true).

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

> They kind of have a point They don't (the claim is the app promotes drug use, which it doesn't), and it's quite likely that it's a reviewer mistake that will be overturned once the stink on social media gets big enough to reach the right person.

Angostura 6y ago
> the claim is the app promotes drug use, which it doesn't You don't think it could reinforce the idea that Amphetamines could be a useful tool to preserve wakefulness?
- nyx_ 6y ago
  Like the original post says, they are in fact a useful tool to promote wakefulness, and if you have a problem with wakefulness or attentiveness, you can go to a doctor, get diagnosed, and be prescribed with amphetamines perfectly legally if you so wish.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- incongruity 6y ago
  Well - they do actually do that and under certain circumstances, they are used precisely for that. I find the puritanical mindset a little bit of an overreach here.
- zamadatix 6y ago
  You can refrence a truth without promoting it. E.g. Darik's boot and nuke wipes everything but you'd be off your rocker to say it's promoting nuclear war as a result.
- dack 6y ago
  Not op, but no; the app has nothing to do with drugs. I don't think we as a society should be this sensitive/prone to suggestion. If anything, I believe the censorship promotes the idea that people have no responsibility to make their own choices, and we must build to the lowest common denominator. Note, I'm not really making a judgement about whether Apple should be allowed to do this - I think that is harder question.

RedditKon 6y ago

Exactly. I use something identical called "caffeine". Just rebrand to Jolt and be done with it.

permo-w 6y ago

Caffeine would be an easy answer to the rebranding question

canofbars 6y ago
I just did a search and found multiple apps with that name already.
glerk 6y ago
There is already an app called "Caffeine" that serves the same purpose.
redwall_hp 6y ago
Caffeine was the old application that Amphetamine replaced. It was a long-standing utility that went unmaintained after Apple switched to the retina displays.
- dempseye 6y ago
  Really? I am still using it. It works fine with a Retina display, which is the only Apple display I've ever had. 2014 MBP 15 here.
rwc 6y ago
Not so easy: https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/24120/caffeine https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/24120/caffeine

webmobdev 6y ago

> My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition. Apple will definitely appreciate it if all of us would just shut up and let them screw us. While I appreciate your well-meaning advise to the author - pick your battles in life carefully - I'd like to add that using your anger constructively at some injustice is a positive move too. You do have to accept some things in life are beyond your control. But it does not mean you should not be an advocate for necessary change. Speaking up is the beginning. (And in fact, more positive to your well-being). And you can even stop with that. But speak up. The author has made some good arguments and I urge everyone to read it. Irrespective, of what the author ultimately decides to do, he should be glad for having the courage to speak up. And that many of us appreciate it and support him. Apple shouldn't forget that while it may have hoodwinked many developers to pay them for the "privilege" of creating and distributing apps on their platform, it is the developers who are the ones adding more VALUE to their platform. And that there's a limit to how much you can abuse and gauge them (one would have that all the law suits on the app store would have made them realised that by now).

0xEFF 6y ago
Do you expect to see a box on a shelf of any retail store labeled, “Amphetamine” with a colorful picture of drugs? It’s entirely reasonable for the retail store to tell the vendor to rename the product or else it will be removed from the shelf.
- gambiting 6y ago
  No, because at a retail store the expectation is that if I see a box labeled "amphetamine" it better contain actual amphetamine. Obviously that's not acceptable, so it's not going to happen. When I buy software, I certainly don't expect to get drugs. When I buy a game called "Surgeon Simulator" I don't expect to receive actual surgeon training any more than I expect to get amphetamine after getting an app called amphetamine.
  - MauranKilom 6y ago

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago

I hate to agree with you, because I think I know what the 'right' thing is from my perspective. Sometimes to make a change, you have to fight and, likely, lose. You don't always effect change by winning. That said, I am not sure I would be willing to make that kind of decision.. and thankfully that is not my decision to make here. I too recommend live to run another day approach ( ala Rincewind ). ..then again, this may be the right time to do stand up to Apple. Current upheaval in tech, clear battle lines being drawn over everything from section 230 to app store could stack up things in your favor.. Still, it is only a chance.

webmobdev 6y ago
Yes, you should accept things over which you have no control, and you should speak up against injustice. Acceptance doesn't have to mean you can't advocate for change.

glitchc 6y ago

I concur with OP. Rebrand ASAP. Apple is looking for an excuse to shut your app down so that they can replace it with an in-house version. This is on purpose, they want you to feel outraged. If you take the bait and start a legal battle, you’ll play right into their hands. They will drag it out for years or until your money runs out. Far better to keep the money you have earned, recognizing that even the rebrand won’t save your app in the long run. It’s done.

zackkitzmiller 6y ago
Amphetamine is and has always been free. You can always just disable the screensaver on your Mac if you'd like. Amphetamine really helps when you have MDM installed or something that requires your computer to sleep every so often.

sangnoir 6y ago

Ah, I remember this infamous Apple ad: Here’s to the lazy ones, the mundane, the conformers, the rule-followers, the square pegs in the square holes… the ones who don't see things differently — they’re fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, you can also safely ignore them because they dare not change things… they keep the human race stagnant, and while some may see them as the lazy ones, we see order, because the ones who are lazy enough to know that they can't change the world, are the ones who won't try

sebmellen 6y ago
This is brilliant. I can't wait until we see an actual Apple ad with this script. Maybe 2021 will deliver!
LeoNatan25 6y ago
The Tim Cook era of Apple. This describes well Apple’s fanboy drones, but also the company engineering, product and design.
raverbashing 6y ago
If there was HN Gold, I would have given you some Sounds like the Ray Ozzie motto
sneak 6y ago
When I walk into the latest iteration of the Apple stores, the ones with those giant LED jumbotrons, I wonder whose job it is these days to throw the sledgehammer at the giant propaganda screen. This, too, shall pass.

endgame 6y ago

“He who is not angry, whereas he has cause to be, sins. For unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices, it fosters negligence, and incites not only the wicked but the good to do wrong.”

type0 6y ago

> My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition. They should be brave and rebrand it to Soma, nothing flies in the new world of apples and bananas.

javajosh 6y ago

This is one of those assertions that has the unusual property of being true if you believe it, and false if you don't. Like "I think this bank is going to fail!" Apple doesn't "hold all the cards" unless we believe it is so. The longer that belief is popular we will lose the option to fight when the stakes get higher.

factorialboy 6y ago

> but they hold all the cards.. It's a free app. There is no business to sustain. The indie dev can walk away, and app can die and Apple users will suffer.

filetmignon 6y ago

This is absolutely horrid, imagine if Amazon could blacklist certain products they compete with

jchw 6y ago

I couldn’t disagree with this mentality more.

saagarjha 6y ago

No, they should not do this. They have six years of strong brand value, and they have a fairly solid case. And they have the world (well, part of the world at least) watching. Apple can and does change if you have those things, if you do it right. We did it with iSH (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252). If anything, this is their best opportunity to effect change, and I would very much hope they take it while they still have it.

wayanon 6y ago

I agree with this response 100%. Don’t use valuable mental calories on this. Just adapt. Use the saved energy on something more deserving of your time.

cynoclast 6y ago

Well said. And why you invest as little emotion as possible into business. You don't want to be wedded to anything but making money.

oauea 6y ago

Your advice pretty much equates to "just bend over and take it", which is a horrible thing to tell people.

m463 6y ago

Maybe you should name it "caffeinate"... Probably won't sell well in Utah. The name might also collide with apple's program "caffeinate" too.

_qulr 6y ago

"Just got off a call with @Apple. Appeal accepted and Amphetamine will remain on the @AppStore." https://twitter.com/x74353/status/1345421211677949957 https://twitter.com/x74353/status/1345421211677949957

Solstinox 6y ago
Contrary to the original comment above yours, squeaky wheel gets the grease.
- _qulr 6y ago
  And my comment got downvoted of course. Because HN can't let pesky facts get in the way of good argument. This site, sigh.

dekhn 6y ago

On the contrary: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/2/22210295/apple-developer-amphetamine-app-violate-drug-app-store-rules https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/2/22210295/apple-developer-a... In this case, the complainer had several important details on their side: Apple had previously featured the app, the rule that they said was violated wasn't violated, and they tolerate other apps which violate those rules. It seems likely Apple realized in this case that it would be easier to keep the app since it's not like the app was ruining their family friendly image (although many people, especially in the US, picture the negative effects of methamphetamine additiction when they hear "amphetamine", amphetamine is actually an approved drug used by many in the US).

washadjeffmad 6y ago

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/02/amphetamine-app-store-removal-threat/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/02/amphetamine-app-store-r... Apple has reversed their position after the developer appealed. They did not lose anything or have to rebrand. Given this outcome and the minor expense in time it took to achieve, do you still stand by your advice that people should immediately support and enable a unilateral decision because there is a power difference between the parties? How has this updated your beliefs about the likelihood of amenable redress with the App Store appeals process?

kryogen1c 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

sebmellen 6y ago

Thank God he didn't listen to you. Don't give up! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25618245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25618245.