4 ms·

Why should regulation like this be enacted due to shitty consumer behavior that is evident everywhere, not just online reviews? I really don’t know who this is

by ecf 6y ago

Why should regulation like this be enacted due to shitty consumer behavior that is evident everywhere, not just online reviews? I really don’t know who this is helping because I’m not going to start using a more inconvenient way of ordering because these restaurants want things their way. It’ll only result in these local businesses losing access to the $750 I pay in delivery each month.

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
> due to shitty consumer behavior This is not shitty consumer behavior. It is lying... a company pretending to be another company or a representative of another company... when they are not. If you buy a fake Toyota car and it sucks, do you blame Toyota then complain when a law is passed making this fraud illegal?
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  > is lying... a company pretending to be another company or a representative of another company... when they are not. This law affects much more than that.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    It doesn't because you can always ask for permission.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      Forcing companies to ask for permission changes a lot. In general, it's usually bad for market competition.
      - colejohnson66 6y ago
        If DoorDash can’t be arsed to ask for permission from whoever to deliver, then maybe it’s for the better that they don’t deliver that place. Sure, it costs more than just adding the place to their site, but the restaurant is having their image harmed by soggy food. If that restaurant doesn’t want to allow delivery, they should have that option.
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        It's bad for the restaurant to be harmed this way, of course. But it's not a choice between "do nothing" and "force them to ask permission". Under this law, a restaurant might refuse permission for other reasons. And some of those reasons would be bad for consumers. If a similar rule was applied to non-food items, it could be a very harmful blow to the first sale doctrine.
        TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
        > And some of those reasons would be bad for consumers. Can you give an example?
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        > Can you give an example? Of a bad reason or a bad effect? Bad reasons are a dime a dozen. Maybe they just don't want to. They don't like the idea, and they're stubborn. Or they made a deal with one or two companies and don't want to allow others, even though some customer would really prefer the disallowed ones or can't get service from the allowed ones. For bad effects, it means that the customer can't get the food they want, even with 100% knowledge that it's a third party picking it up, and that the quality will be imperfect in a way that's not the restaurant's fault. Here, let me quote someone else from this same comment page: "Last night I wanted w bottle of alcohol for new years celebration. I already had a few drinks so I didn't want to drive. Unfortunately no delivery service had an agreement with any local liquor stores." And, I mean, for non-food items imagine how bad it would be if you needed explicit permission from the manufacturer to sell something on ebay. Food's not that different.
        wpietri 6y ago
        A restaurant is already allowed to refuse to sell arbitrarily. They have the right to freedom of association, just like anybody else, with narrow exceptions when it's targeted at protected classes. And restaurants are already allowed to do all sorts of things may depart from the gospel of revenue maximization. This is the sort of thing we expect to be taken care of by the free market. If signing up with a delivery service is truly in their interest and aligns with what they want their business to be, they mostly will. And if not, that's fine.
KittenInABox 6y ago
> It’ll only result in these local businesses losing access to the $750 I pay in delivery each month. If you're using exclusively delivery platforms and not getting delivery from the restaurants themselves, I can guarantee you that the local businesses likely never had access to the 750$ you pay. Assuming a tip of say 20% to the driver, let me take the sales tax of my local city which is around 8%, a 10% commission from grubhub with a processing 3.05% fee (plus $0.30 per order). This means on a platform like grubhub, your 750$ you pay in delivery is paying grubhub 97$, 60$ to government, 150$ to delivery people. Restaurants only receive 443$, assuming you never take advantage of deals they offer to stay afloat, and the restaurant only pays grubhub the minimum fees (they are often pressured more or the grubhub algo will deprioritize them).

by ecf 6y ago

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago

> due to shitty consumer behavior This is not shitty consumer behavior. It is lying... a company pretending to be another company or a representative of another company... when they are not. If you buy a fake Toyota car and it sucks, do you blame Toyota then complain when a law is passed making this fraud illegal?

Dylan16807 6y ago
> is lying... a company pretending to be another company or a representative of another company... when they are not. This law affects much more than that.
- imtringued 6y ago
  It doesn't because you can always ask for permission.
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    Forcing companies to ask for permission changes a lot. In general, it's usually bad for market competition.
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      If DoorDash can’t be arsed to ask for permission from whoever to deliver, then maybe it’s for the better that they don’t deliver that place. Sure, it costs more than just adding the place to their site, but the restaurant is having their image harmed by soggy food. If that restaurant doesn’t want to allow delivery, they should have that option.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        It's bad for the restaurant to be harmed this way, of course. But it's not a choice between "do nothing" and "force them to ask permission". Under this law, a restaurant might refuse permission for other reasons. And some of those reasons would be bad for consumers. If a similar rule was applied to non-food items, it could be a very harmful blow to the first sale doctrine.
        TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
        > And some of those reasons would be bad for consumers. Can you give an example?
        Dylan16807 6y ago
        > Can you give an example? Of a bad reason or a bad effect? Bad reasons are a dime a dozen. Maybe they just don't want to. They don't like the idea, and they're stubborn. Or they made a deal with one or two companies and don't want to allow others, even though some customer would really prefer the disallowed ones or can't get service from the allowed ones. For bad effects, it means that the customer can't get the food they want, even with 100% knowledge that it's a third party picking it up, and that the quality will be imperfect in a way that's not the restaurant's fault. Here, let me quote someone else from this same comment page: "Last night I wanted w bottle of alcohol for new years celebration. I already had a few drinks so I didn't want to drive. Unfortunately no delivery service had an agreement with any local liquor stores." And, I mean, for non-food items imagine how bad it would be if you needed explicit permission from the manufacturer to sell something on ebay. Food's not that different.
        wpietri 6y ago
        A restaurant is already allowed to refuse to sell arbitrarily. They have the right to freedom of association, just like anybody else, with narrow exceptions when it's targeted at protected classes. And restaurants are already allowed to do all sorts of things may depart from the gospel of revenue maximization. This is the sort of thing we expect to be taken care of by the free market. If signing up with a delivery service is truly in their interest and aligns with what they want their business to be, they mostly will. And if not, that's fine.

KittenInABox 6y ago

> It’ll only result in these local businesses losing access to the $750 I pay in delivery each month. If you're using exclusively delivery platforms and not getting delivery from the restaurants themselves, I can guarantee you that the local businesses likely never had access to the 750$ you pay. Assuming a tip of say 20% to the driver, let me take the sales tax of my local city which is around 8%, a 10% commission from grubhub with a processing 3.05% fee (plus $0.30 per order). This means on a platform like grubhub, your 750$ you pay in delivery is paying grubhub 97$, 60$ to government, 150$ to delivery people. Restaurants only receive 443$, assuming you never take advantage of deals they offer to stay afloat, and the restaurant only pays grubhub the minimum fees (they are often pressured more or the grubhub algo will deprioritize them).