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Mobile data shows which European countries took lockdown seriously

24 points by zeristor 6y ago

j-pb 6y ago
The colors in these charts are a color-blinds nightmare...
- glandium 6y ago
  Even for non color blinds...
  - m4r35n357 6y ago
    Yep. Ludicrous colour choices!
memsom 6y ago
We currently get out home broadband via cellular, so I guess the data has a possible skew in certain areas. I know we are not the only ones who do it that way.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  I believe there's also a big difference between age groups and their mobile phone usage
- Symbiote 6y ago
  It's derived from Google and Apple's tracking of phone location. They know exactly where your home is, where you work, and with a map can see when you go to a park or a shop. This is app tracking, but Google and Apple have more direct access : https://nrkbeta.no/2020/12/03/my-phone-was-spying-on-me-so-i-tracked-down-the-surveillants/ https://nrkbeta.no/2020/12/03/my-phone-was-spying-on-me-so-i...
  - tinus_hn 6y ago
    Your article does not contain the word Apple. Google does this kind of tracking. Apple uses a periodically changing id that is not associated with your person. If you have an iPhone Apple probably knows where you live because you told them, but not because you use Apple Maps or GPS on their devices.
flypaca 6y ago
It is horrible to follow the lines in the plots when they are so thin and colors are nightmare.
- cinntaile 6y ago
  Not just that. The colour assigned to a country changes between graphs, which is quite weird?
skewedmap 6y ago
This “data” is missing well over half of europe. Why.
- dutchmartin 6y ago
  Because some countries have reasonable doubts about this type of data collection considering people’s privacy and or do not publish this data.
  - absolutelyrad 6y ago
    Google has information via Google Location Services. Have they stopped publishing public stats?
  - skewedmap 6y ago
    Thanks for the clarification - I thought it might be the usual exclusion of central and eastern european nations, despite data being collected by google.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      I'm sure it's the usual ignoring of Eastern Europe. Google publish data for everywhere. (At least, I see Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia... ) https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/ https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
      - skewedmap 6y ago
        I know, I was being sarcastic. This article should be flagged as it has no scientific meaning in the context of ... “European countries” as it ignores quite a chunk of data.
toolz 6y ago
For those who understand lockdowns to have worked, what would you say is the strongest evidence you've seen? I've always been of the opinion they would make a difference but not be worth the cost, but I'm growing more inclined to believe they may not have even made a difference. Germany despite being the oldest EU country appears to be much closer to Sweden in terms of mobility change yet early on they were among the best performing countries.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- viraptor 6y ago
  Australia/Victoria. Long, strict lockdown, with separation into metro area and regional rules. It brought the cases down to 0 for a month (now single cases are acquired from NSW, but that's a separate story). I'm not sure if the difference from the European countries is in people complying or with good implementation (clear, short rules). Either way, spread inside the city (so the island / sparse pop arguments are irrelevant) has been eliminated. The difference in rules simplicity and exclusions is visible. Compare for example official rules for UK's level 3 only https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert with Victoria's 3 steps all together on this page https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/3-step-framework-for-a-covidsafe-australia https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/3-step-fram...
  - xmodem 6y ago
    Indeed, Victoria was recording 700 cases per day in August. Lockdowns are painful, sure, but there can be no doubt they work. The more you lock down, the more painful it will be, but the quicker you'll slow the spread. I'm in Sweden at the moment and I've essentially locked myself down, even though its not legally required.
- orwin 6y ago
  I think France, Italy and Spain data is pretty convincing. If you know anybody near Colmar or Bergame or working in any hospital around there, lockdowns (decided by the state or not) were more than necessary. Maybe not nation-wide, sure, i think this could have been a mistake, but smaller than doing nothing. I've already said that, but my cousin (emergency care) in Colmar was sending his "best" patients in army planes to another cousin working in Brittany (reanimation). He worked 12 to 14 hours a day, for 45 days straight. That was one hotspot, and Colmar was hit a bit less than Bergame, i'm pretty sure any italian having familly there would have many more horror story than i have. At least they didn't have to select patients in Colmar (well, not as much).
danirod 6y ago
In countries such as Spain, it is very easy to understand why the country took the lockdown so seriously. For most people, it was easy to choose to stay home when the alternative was to get fined by police, who thoughtfully were patrolling the streets looking for dodgers. More than a million people were fined by police during the spring [1]. So many fines, that we are still seeing news about judges taking decissions on these fines, so it clearly overloaded our justice system. Surprisingly, many of them are being rejected by judges because of not being fair. Police officers can fine you if they believe you are infringing the law, and civils have to take their word as granted until a judge makes the final decission. People were fined in the spring for things such as driving to pick up groceries in a store different than the one closest to their homes [2], or because of walking the dog (one of the very few exceptions to leave the house) "too far from home", despite the law having never settled an official maximum distance [3]. [1]: https://en.as.com/en/2020/05/20/other_sports/1590007192_285496.html https://en.as.com/en/2020/05/20/other_sports/1590007192_2854... [2]: https://www.niusdiario.es/nacional/tribunales/justicia-claro-delito-supermercado-domicilio-coronavirus_18_2942370316.html https://www.niusdiario.es/nacional/tribunales/justicia-claro... [3]: https://diariolaley.laleynext.es/dll/2020/10/29/se-anula-la-multa-por-pasear-al-perro-a-mas-de-un-km-del-domicilio-durante-el-estado-de-alarma https://diariolaley.laleynext.es/dll/2020/10/29/se-anula-la-...
artjomb 6y ago
> Germany’s park visit data is further evidence that lockdown measures do not fully determine behaviour, and that people have their own motives. I find the graphs without much meaning. I live in Germany and we didn't have a strict lockdown where you would get a fine for doing non-essential outside activity. In April cultural and fitness were closed. Therefore the only way to do something is to go outside. The interesting thing would be to understand how many other people you were meeting with which I would think that data does not provide. I mean Google likely has that data but didn't anonymize it in order to release it. Meeting more people than allowed and not covering your mouth and nose is something that was spot checked and still is.

24 points by zeristor 6y ago

j-pb 6y ago

The colors in these charts are a color-blinds nightmare...

glandium 6y ago
Even for non color blinds...
- m4r35n357 6y ago
  Yep. Ludicrous colour choices!

memsom 6y ago

We currently get out home broadband via cellular, so I guess the data has a possible skew in certain areas. I know we are not the only ones who do it that way.

raverbashing 6y ago
I believe there's also a big difference between age groups and their mobile phone usage
Symbiote 6y ago
It's derived from Google and Apple's tracking of phone location. They know exactly where your home is, where you work, and with a map can see when you go to a park or a shop. This is app tracking, but Google and Apple have more direct access : https://nrkbeta.no/2020/12/03/my-phone-was-spying-on-me-so-i-tracked-down-the-surveillants/ https://nrkbeta.no/2020/12/03/my-phone-was-spying-on-me-so-i...
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  Your article does not contain the word Apple. Google does this kind of tracking. Apple uses a periodically changing id that is not associated with your person. If you have an iPhone Apple probably knows where you live because you told them, but not because you use Apple Maps or GPS on their devices.

flypaca 6y ago

It is horrible to follow the lines in the plots when they are so thin and colors are nightmare.

cinntaile 6y ago
Not just that. The colour assigned to a country changes between graphs, which is quite weird?

skewedmap 6y ago

This “data” is missing well over half of europe. Why.

dutchmartin 6y ago
Because some countries have reasonable doubts about this type of data collection considering people’s privacy and or do not publish this data.
- absolutelyrad 6y ago
  Google has information via Google Location Services. Have they stopped publishing public stats?
- skewedmap 6y ago
  Thanks for the clarification - I thought it might be the usual exclusion of central and eastern european nations, despite data being collected by google.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    I'm sure it's the usual ignoring of Eastern Europe. Google publish data for everywhere. (At least, I see Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia... ) https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/ https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
    - skewedmap 6y ago
      I know, I was being sarcastic. This article should be flagged as it has no scientific meaning in the context of ... “European countries” as it ignores quite a chunk of data.

toolz 6y ago

For those who understand lockdowns to have worked, what would you say is the strongest evidence you've seen? I've always been of the opinion they would make a difference but not be worth the cost, but I'm growing more inclined to believe they may not have even made a difference. Germany despite being the oldest EU country appears to be much closer to Sweden in terms of mobility change yet early on they were among the best performing countries.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
viraptor 6y ago
Australia/Victoria. Long, strict lockdown, with separation into metro area and regional rules. It brought the cases down to 0 for a month (now single cases are acquired from NSW, but that's a separate story). I'm not sure if the difference from the European countries is in people complying or with good implementation (clear, short rules). Either way, spread inside the city (so the island / sparse pop arguments are irrelevant) has been eliminated. The difference in rules simplicity and exclusions is visible. Compare for example official rules for UK's level 3 only https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-3-very-high-alert with Victoria's 3 steps all together on this page https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/3-step-framework-for-a-covidsafe-australia https://www.health.gov.au/resources/publications/3-step-fram...
- xmodem 6y ago
  Indeed, Victoria was recording 700 cases per day in August. Lockdowns are painful, sure, but there can be no doubt they work. The more you lock down, the more painful it will be, but the quicker you'll slow the spread. I'm in Sweden at the moment and I've essentially locked myself down, even though its not legally required.
orwin 6y ago
I think France, Italy and Spain data is pretty convincing. If you know anybody near Colmar or Bergame or working in any hospital around there, lockdowns (decided by the state or not) were more than necessary. Maybe not nation-wide, sure, i think this could have been a mistake, but smaller than doing nothing. I've already said that, but my cousin (emergency care) in Colmar was sending his "best" patients in army planes to another cousin working in Brittany (reanimation). He worked 12 to 14 hours a day, for 45 days straight. That was one hotspot, and Colmar was hit a bit less than Bergame, i'm pretty sure any italian having familly there would have many more horror story than i have. At least they didn't have to select patients in Colmar (well, not as much).

danirod 6y ago

In countries such as Spain, it is very easy to understand why the country took the lockdown so seriously. For most people, it was easy to choose to stay home when the alternative was to get fined by police, who thoughtfully were patrolling the streets looking for dodgers. More than a million people were fined by police during the spring [1]. So many fines, that we are still seeing news about judges taking decissions on these fines, so it clearly overloaded our justice system. Surprisingly, many of them are being rejected by judges because of not being fair. Police officers can fine you if they believe you are infringing the law, and civils have to take their word as granted until a judge makes the final decission. People were fined in the spring for things such as driving to pick up groceries in a store different than the one closest to their homes [2], or because of walking the dog (one of the very few exceptions to leave the house) "too far from home", despite the law having never settled an official maximum distance [3]. [1]: https://en.as.com/en/2020/05/20/other_sports/1590007192_285496.html https://en.as.com/en/2020/05/20/other_sports/1590007192_2854... [2]: https://www.niusdiario.es/nacional/tribunales/justicia-claro-delito-supermercado-domicilio-coronavirus_18_2942370316.html https://www.niusdiario.es/nacional/tribunales/justicia-claro... [3]: https://diariolaley.laleynext.es/dll/2020/10/29/se-anula-la-multa-por-pasear-al-perro-a-mas-de-un-km-del-domicilio-durante-el-estado-de-alarma https://diariolaley.laleynext.es/dll/2020/10/29/se-anula-la-...

artjomb 6y ago

> Germany’s park visit data is further evidence that lockdown measures do not fully determine behaviour, and that people have their own motives. I find the graphs without much meaning. I live in Germany and we didn't have a strict lockdown where you would get a fine for doing non-essential outside activity. In April cultural and fitness were closed. Therefore the only way to do something is to go outside. The interesting thing would be to understand how many other people you were meeting with which I would think that data does not provide. I mean Google likely has that data but didn't anonymize it in order to release it. Meeting more people than allowed and not covering your mouth and nose is something that was spot checked and still is.