14 ms·
Coronavirus: Spain to keep registry of those who refuse Covid vaccine
- dwardu 6y agoProbably GDPR concerns will be raised since they'll effectively be storing PII.
- sdfhbdf 6y agoThe country public services already have all the PII and in case od public health and safety they can easily justify such regiastry
- input_sh 6y agoIANAL, but GDPR has an exception for "safeguarding against and the prevention of threats to public security".
- bjeds 6y agoPerfect opportunity to clear up a common misconception: PII is more or less an American term. In the context of European legislation such as the GDPR, there is no such thing as "PII". Within Europe and within the context of the GDPR, you do however talk about "Personal Data". Personal Data and PII are both about data that can identify a person, but Personal Data (Europe) is much broader than PII (US) from a regulatory perspective. This was a pet peeve of the best GDPR lawyer I ever worked with, and now it's a pet peeve of mine as well. :-)
- twistiti 6y agoHow will Spain ensure the registry remains confidential? What identifiers will be shared with other EU countries?
- bassman9000 6y agoThey won't. We haven't learnt a bit. The only way to keep data confidential is not to gather it.
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoNot even that, data-mining reveals data that wasn't directly gathered. We need to gather data to operate government (in this case healthcare), so there has to be a more realistic approach than "don't gather any data".
- pdyck 6y agoYou could use a differentially private mechanism like randomized response to gather the data. This would protect the individual through plausible deniability and still allow some kind of research about what factors correlate with anti-vaxxers. But I doubt that this is what the Spanish government is going to do. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomized_response https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randomized_response
- toshk 6y agoI think you think to highly of Spanish government and culture. This is purely a pressure mechanism. They are a very young democracy and their authoritarian instincts are still very fresh. For instance their first lockdown was extremely rigid and enforced with heavy policing and also neighbors were eager to enforce it on each other. Experiencing the first days there and then going back to my home in the north of Europe, the difference was night and day.
- torcete 6y agoBeing from Spain and having lived in other EU countries, I must agree with you.
- commonsenseplz 6y ago> For instance their first lockdown was extremely rigid and enforced with heavy policing You seem to think that's a bad thing? I had built a life in northern Europe over the past decade, then I decided to leave when I realised neither the government nor the people seemed actually inclined to lockdown. Now for the past 6 months I live in a country with single-digit local contagion cases and the street I used to live in Berlin is the hardest-hit in Germany... Go figure The country I now live reached its status by closing borders for non-essencial travel, extremely rigid fines for breaking quarantine on arrival, and heavy police enforcement of those fines.
- yomly 6y agoI have been splitting my time between a covid-free country and a covid-ridden country and it is very VERY hard to get peers from the so-called "free" nations see how their individualistic obsession with personal rights and privacy are completely self-destructive under the current environment. They can't even fathom that living in a covid free nation isn't even that onerous in the day to day. Contact trace and socially distance. Wear a mask and actually DO quarantine. They're more ready to make up excuses: - China and Vietnam are faking their numbers - New Zealand is a low density remote island - Australia became an authoritarian state - Taiwan were already prepared - Singapore is a dictatorship Meanwhile these nations have only had to protect their entertainment industries (domestic tourism is clawing back some of the lost tourism income now) but all these other free countries like the UK have lived with restrictions most of 2020 now and have ALSO torpedoed their economy AND had the most casualties. At this point I'd almost rather go full cynic and just appreciate covid as an agent of natural selection rather than collectively ruin the prospects of the future generation, but of course that is also politically untenable. So given that dichotomy of choice I will gladly cede some human rights to empower my government actually do their job.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pfortuny 6y agoYou will be amazed at the contradictions between Spanish databprotection laws and the way the Administration handles these data...
- theemptiness 6y agoAs long as its GDPR compliant... Seriously though, "vaccination is not mandatory but we keep a registry and we share it with partners, and it will have awesome data protection" sounds problematic - even if it were true that data protection is awesome, and even if there was a legal basis - what is shared, what is the data used for? Who is going to be considered a legitimate "partner"? I doubt politicians' capacity - worldwide - to ask the right questions and find good agreements.
- onetimemanytime 6y agoOn the other hand the virus has turned life upside down for virtually everyone. I understand choice but not getting vaccinated affects everyone else. So it's not as easy, especially since everyone wants to go to school, fly, shop and can infect others.
- davehcker 6y agoI have heard this before but I never understood why- 'not getting vaccinated affects everyone else'. My thinking is that if you already got vaccinated then you should be good to go. How does my not getting vaccinated then harm others. What am I getting wrong? Update: I asked the question in all sincerity and thanks for all the answers; but I don't get why my comment/question should be downvoted.
- andi999 6y agoSome people cannot get vaccinated so they rely on heard immunity. Also the vaccine is 95% efficient, still the 5% also prefer that the virus cannot propagate.
- johnisgood 6y agoSo the mRNA vaccine is not safe for those people? Genuinely curious. Plus, in any case, they should probably take cautions themselves if they know they have not been vaccinated for those reasons.
- andi999 6y agoCurrently people with strong allergies are not recommended to take it, since it can lead to allergic shock. Then my prediction is soon that people with autoimmune diseases might be recommended not to take it, and later people who have an infection leading to have reverse transcriptase in their body (the last two is just my glass ball telling me) Then the vaccine is not approve for youth below 16 (if I remember correctly) And what about the 5% not respondinding to vaccination, they don't know that, so everybody should continue to take precautions?
- swagonich4 6y ago"good" old days of segregation are back! Lets also create a yellow COVID arm sticker, so people can stay away from you like in ww2
- kjakm 6y agoI’m surprised people in this thread sort of seem surprised about this. It’s only a matter of time before visa approvals are tied to vaccination (or exemption) proof in my opinion. In the case of Spain sharing data with other EU countries this theory doesn’t really apply due to freedom of movement but I wonder if even that will be curtailed in the event of no vaccination?
- xref 6y agoEhh I don’t know if we’ll get there. I mean people don’t have to prove they’ve had a measles vaccine to travel, which is much more dangerous than covid. This all being predicated on enough people actually _getting_ the vaccine that we reach herd immunity like with measles
- etage3 6y agoFrench Guyana (1) (=part of the EU) requires a 10 day old yellow fever vaccination on entry. (1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_fever#Compulsory_vaccination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_fever#Compulsory_vaccin...
- xref 6y agoKeep in mind that requirement is because we can’t eradicate yellow fever like we did smallpox, and hopefully covid. Yellow fever is endemic and has natural animal hosts which we can’t control
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- roenxi 6y agoI don't think the leap from this to an international known-infected-with-STDs registry is that large. It'd probably be a net health win to be able to restrict the movements of people with HIV, for example. I dunno, do they already do that? Arguments of "but getting the vaccine is voluntary and having HIV isn't" are logically sound and true - but I don't think the people who write these rules care so much about that. These precedents don't go away. Covid isn't scary enough to throw away core concepts of privacy and liberty, and it has been nearly a year now. A year is a long time.
- n4r9 6y agoI think many countries have a different trade-off between public heal and concepts like liberty.
- andi999 6y agoSo what is the purpose?
- foepys 6y agoI'd imagine that this will become a no-fly list very fast.
- commonsenseplz 6y agoHopefully! To expand a little: I think there should be a grace period of maybe a couple of years until the safety of the vaccine is established more deeply, but it's not reasonable to expect this not to be enforced afterwards. In places where yellow fever is endemic, for example, many countries require vaccination if you want to visit.
- simonh 6y agoThe pandemic is happening now, hundreds of thousands of people are dying and the hospitals my wife works at here in London are getting hammered. No grace period. As you say there are plenty of precedents for restricting travel rights based on vaccination, this is not a new idea.
- commonsenseplz 6y agoInteresting, since I thought I had a radical position but your position seems to be more radical, let me ask you: What if we later find out that the first generations of the vaccines came with a whole bunch of delayed-action side effects?
- simonh 6y agoIt's a matter of choosing which risks we're willing to take. An extremely low risk from the vaccine, bear in mind all vaccines carry risks, or the known risks from a virus that has killed pushing two million people and itself seems to have long term health impact on many survivors. My wife is a Nurse and had the virus in April, she's had chest infection problems ever since and is currently on long term antibiotics to try and shake it off. Waiting to check for long term effects is a novel and unprecedented standard for a vaccine. Yes the testing process usually takes several years, but testing for long term effects would take much, much longer. Nobody has ever held a vaccine to that kind of standard before, so why are we suddenly panicking about it now? I'm fine with people choosing not to get vaccinated, but I'm also fine with them losing their travel and some employment privileges as a result.
- simonh 6y agoThe fact that protecting data is difficult doesn't mean we should never collect data. Choosing not to be inoculated is a major health choice that has significant impact on risks to ourselves and others, especially when travelling internationally and I can see legitimate reasons health services need that information.
- bassman9000 6y agoSame with HIV, HPV, and other viruses, with closer ranges, and potentially deadlier consequences. Yet no one, for obvious reasons, demands a registry of HIV+ people. The only difference is that population is now ripe for the acceptance of borderline-tyrannical measures, given the months-long fear carpetbombing campaign. And yes, I'd get the vaccine, once properly tested for side effects. I'm just not too keen on making citizen lists.
- simonh 6y agoYou can’t catch HIV or HPV by walking past someone in a shop or sitting near them in a train. If we could, obviously we’d be treating them differently.
- adflux 6y agoAs much as I hope people will get vaccinated, this is a scary step bringing us closer to a dystopic society. Setting up these systems for enforcing injections could well be abused in the future. And you are only going to create more distrust among vaccine skeptics... Why enforce a vaccine for a disease that barely kills anyways? To me it feels like this crisis is being uses to push legislation which would otherwise never be passed.
- kjakm 6y ago>> Why enforce a vaccine for a disease that barely kills anyways? Because it overwhelms the health systems. Even if I take your premise that it “barely kills” (and 1.7m people would disagree) the UK health system has a huge backlog of routine operations to get through due to the number of people requiring treatment (even if they don’t die). When we have a virus this infectious, and we have a treatment available, why should we allow someone’s “freedom” to jeopardise the health and well-being of others? Should we allow the option of declining the vaccine but ban the person from using public health care if they catch the disease? Sounds dystopian but seems fair. Edit: I understand this is a topic people have strong opinions on but downvoting simply because you disagree is useless. Engage in debate. Respond.
- bzb6 6y agoThe average age of people who died of COVID in Spain is 86. Eighty fucking six.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago> Because it overwhelms the health systems. The average victim of COVID is aged over 70 with multiple comorbities, i.e. precisely those people that the youth demographic isn’t enthusiastic about sacrificing their lifestyle for. If you simply triage that demographic out of treatment, then suddenly there is no especial burden on the health system at all.
- Keverw 6y agoThis seems so dystopian. "Mr Illa said people would be contacted by regional authorities when it was their turn to be inoculated." So they are just going to some how contact everyone who has an ID? This seems like something that should be between someone and their doctor. If they have one or want one. Then what about it mutating, are they going to have a new one and do this every year? Don't want to sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist, but I'm skeptical of this whole thing.
- Kliment 6y agoSorry, but you do sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist. I suspect the reasoning for this measure is to prevent everyone calling them all the time to try and arrange a vaccination while there isn't enough vaccine available. Here in Germany they're doing the same thing (don't call us we'll call you) but are saying this is likely to change as more vaccine becomes available.
- kace91 6y agoSpaniard here. I'm curious about the negative reaction about this news. Here, growing up, we have a list of vaccines that a child gets as they grow up (tetanus, diphteria, chickenpox, etc). your pediatrist knows the schedule and follows along, obviously. Perhaps the piece that is missing from an american mindset is that medical record is also in public hands, since healthcare is public funded and free for taxpayers. How else are doctors going to keep the record of the medical history of a patient? I personally would love being able to travel without having to go through a PCR because there's a record somewhere that I'm immune for example. Those things aren't pleasant.
- Keverw 6y agoIn America records are pretty much decentralized. If you switched to another dentist, you'd have to get the records from your old one. Same for regular doctors. Usually there's a release to fill out. And not even digital depending on where, some still use paper and pen and a folder. I think some states started doing vaccine registers for schools and stuff. But if not and say you lose your proof and needed it for say going to another school or college, your option is to get a test if your immune, get it again or an exemption depending on the state... Like California only allows medical, while some states allow religious or personal exemptions.
- ceilingcorner 6y agoSurprise, surprise, governments take advantage of crises to grab power. It’s not like we haven’t seen this for the last 5,000 years. The scary thing is that as usual, a sizable portion of the population is ready and willing to trample human rights in the name of public safety. Personally, I am planning a move to an unspecified rural area. Cities seem like ground zero for totalitarian measures and it will take much longer for the surveillance state to penetrate the countryside.
- te_chris 6y agoBye, have fun!
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- commonsenseplz 6y ago> [...] a sizable portion of the population is ready and willing to trample human rights in the name of public safety. Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 25: (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family (...) Your right ends when the rights of others begin. Rights don't exist in an absolute vacuum.
- HuwytNashi_008 6y agoYou do realise that this can be repeated right back at you? Your concern for the health and safety of your family does not trump my concern for the health and safety of my family. Unfortunately for you, doing nothing is always a morally acceptable option in case of conflict. Unfortunately for me, that won't matter. We've already forfeited so much power to the government that they can and will do whatever they like. And you'll be cheering on the sidelines.
- simonh 6y agoIn a democracy the government can't do whatever it likes, it does whatever the electorate are willing to allow or tolerate. The fact is the electorate are willing to allow government to do a lot more than many at the libertarian end of the spectrum like. However blaming "the government" rather than the collective democratic will of the people and their elected representatives sounds better.
- underdeserver 6y agoWhat could possibly go wrong?
- Barrin92 6y agoGood. If there's one good thing coming out of covid it's hopefully long term sustained attention towards disease burden and public health. In this thread there are already people complaining about dystopias. My dystopia is hundreds of thousands of people dying of preventable, mundane diseases every year because we give so little of a crap about public health that we let unvaccinated people into packed stadiums. To me the dystopia isn't the future, it's the status quo. Forget covid, every few years we have bad flu seasons that overload hospitals and tens of thousands of people die. My question is why we didn't have a differentiated, technological systems that detects risk factors in public spaces. We just let it happen, literally every year.
- otabdeveloper4 6y ago> hundreds of thousands of people dying of preventable, mundane diseases every year Like obesity? Whoops, I forgot that this is about signaling your affinity to "science", whatever that is, not public health. Back under the bridge with poor me...
- Barrin92 6y agoYes, like obesity, and smoking and whatever else. Which is why I also support incentives to take soda off shelves, give financial incentives to people who exercise, don't smoke and so on. What gives you the impression I somehow oppose that?
- commonsenseplz 6y agoMy dystopia is having had to stay in my tiny urban apartment without leaving for 70 days waiting for the government to take action and then when I realised they wouldn't, having to uproot and move to a different continent altogether away from the place I called home for the past decade in order to simply feel safe.
- bosswipe 6y agoI support all measures to quash the anti-vaxers. There is still a chance that humanity can eradicate covid if we all get vaccinated. If the selfish conspiracy theorists get their way this disease will be with us forever and the virus could mutate into something more dangerous.
- throwawaysea 6y agoThere will always be a level of risk greater than zero in life. Anytime you step outside, you’re exposed to so many different low probability threats. If you are so risk averse, why not quarantine yourself indefinitely instead of forcing medical procedures on everyone else so that YOU can have free movement with a risk exposure that’s acceptable to you? It seems to me like you’re just as selfish as those you’re criticizing, since you want what’s best for your circumstances and values just like everyone else. Between two different “selfish” perspectives, I would rather err on the side of bodily autonomy, privacy, and individual liberties.
- glogla 6y agoYou don't have individual liberty to become a biological weapon.
- rbut 6y agoWhat about pro-vaxers who would like to see a vaccine go through the usual testing process to determine if there are any long-term side effects. Are you going to lump them in your anti-vaxer box also?
- jmkd 6y agoIn general we take vaccines because we believe in the science and trust the authorities in charge of administering them. Here's a good dashboard showing uptake rates of childhood vaccines in the UK: https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTI3NWZhNzItMTIyZS00OWM2LTg0MzMtOGY5YTJjMGY0MjI1IiwidCI6IjUwZjYwNzFmLWJiZmUtNDAxYS04ODAzLTY3Mzc0OGU2MjllMiIsImMiOjh9 https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZTI3NWZhNzItMTIyZS00O... If you have the keep a list of individuals like the Spanish are planning, it's a veiled threat based on the implicit acknowledgement that either the science or the administration are not being trusted. That's a different problem to work on which this registry will not solve.
- pfortuny 6y agoThis is the way the Socialist party thinks is Spain. As a matter of fact, in out country, each and every citizen has an ID card (they fingerprint you when you are at least 14). It is very hard to stay away from the Government in Spain. Very hard. As for health issues, everybody has an SSN and you have probably provided them with your address and a phone number... And yes, no sane person believes this registry will be harmless.
- Darmody 6y agoThis has nothing to do with the socialist party. This is the way Spain works and as a right-winger I don't see anything wrong with it. It's more like a different way of thinking rather than a left-right ideology.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago>no sane person believes this registry will be harmless. // This is not objective, ergo I downvoted. "I think this registry will cause harm", seems like a reasonable statement, and assuming you mean that could you identify the harm you perceive here?
- eznzt 6y agoThis registry will be used to deny people of services.
- orwin 6y agoEven if its true, I'm sorry, but so what? Okay, context here. Around 2015, a measle epidemics broke out between switzerland and Eastern France. less than 2000 cases, 12 dead and a bit more than a hundred children disabled (the fever was too hot for the brain and they lost cognitive functions). Unluckily, in a school where barely 60% of children where vaccinated, lived a child who survived leukemia. Chemo was part of her treatment, so she never received a vaccine, not by their parent choice btw. I took care of her during my youth camp concellor days so i know she was very carefull with infections and hygiene. Well, anyway, she died from measles. I don't care if you don't vaccinate your child, but if you don't, you should have to remove your child from school or club activities the moment an immunodepressed child enter it. Sorry if not vaccinating your child or yourself will deny you from service, i don't care. You have a choice, they don't.
- marvin 6y agoI'm sure that Norway would keep a registry of those vaccinated as well (almost the inverse); we already do for other vaccines. Although there has never been any sort of politics or coercion involved. Sharing it is another matter, though. As others have been saying, it's only a matter of time before various permissions get tied to vaccination status. Wouldn't be surprised if multiple European authorities will cooperate regarding this. It's a very relevant example of differing attitudes in Europe vs. the USA regarding state powers. And honestly, while some European governments can be trusted to act with ethics, some can't. I'm uncertain why I'm a bit creeped out by this. Something feels wrong about de facto forcing people to do a medical procedure, regardless of its intent. While we're not there yet, I think it is likely we will be soon. If e.g. border crossings, airplane rides or certain public gatherings require vaccination. There might be an agrument here about the state vs. the private sector having such policies, but the question of how voluntary it really is exists in both cases. If e.g. you're unable to do your job without vaccination, and there's no definite reason, such as working with the elderly, why lack of one would make you unfit for the job... How voluntary is it, really?
- mrweasel 6y agoDenmark does the same, adding the COVID-19 vaccine to the existing register of which vaccines people have received. The registry was used last year to remind parents to get their children vaccinated, when it turned out that most of those who hadn't gotten their children vaccinated wasn't against the vaccination program, their simply forgot. It's also used to remind the elderly that their are entitled to free flu-shots. Previously I wouldn't have been worried. I've always trusted our various governments to not misuse health records. With the current government I'm not so sure. The prime minister is enjoying record support, and it's not that I believe a different government would have done better, it's just the handling is down right creepy. Hoarding of power, bulldozing critics and make last minute half-assessed decisions all while the public is cheering them on. The current attitude is that the COVID-19 vaccine is going to be 100% voluntary, but I also fear that is will only be in principle. If it's as you say required for border crossing, transport and so on, it's not really voluntary. Danish experts have warned against forcing the vaccine on people could turn them against not only the COVID-19 vaccine, but the entire vaccination program in general. Personally I think we should wait an see how many opt to not get the vaccine before dreaming up restrictions.
- magicfractal 6y agoShould be pretty simple to me: if one doesn’t take the vaccine and passes covid to someone else and this person comes to die it is manslaughter. Folks are putting others in risk by not taking the vaccine.
- mutatio 6y agoI wonder if we take this to its logical conclusion; McDonald's is culpable for millions of cases of manslaughter, what about diesel car owners? Meat eaters? Tourists taking carbon heavy flights?
- _Microft 6y agoYou are talking about so called (negative) externalities. Pricing these costs in to the price of a product or service can incentivize less harmful behaviour. This is the idea behind having a carbon tax to help with climate change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality
- magicfractal 6y agoOn mcdonalds, the only damage is to oneself (not others) so should be fine. On carbon/pollution is much harder to show a direct cause and effect between one’s actions and harm done to another individual. But it seems logical to me that i when/if zero-carbon were to become a serious thing there should be some kind of enforcement framework around it (like smog inspections we have right now but hopefully more effective...)
- throwawaysea 6y agoA virus is a separate agent from the people you allege are committing manslaughter. A virus is a background condition, like a weather event. An asymptomatic human shouldn’t be considered the agent committing a crime in your scenario, because they’re under no obligation to make changes to THEIR body to make YOU comfortable with a background environmental condition.
- magicfractal 6y ago
- vwtman 6y agoI'm not anti-vaxx, but could the hawkish pro-vaxxers here please consider: We all know version 0.9.0 products, so some people may feel that they want to wait. With the effectiveness (claimed!) of the vaccines, a self isolating non-inoculated person is far less of a threat than an inoculated party socialite. The latter people brought us into this mess in the first place.
- lqet 6y agoThere are reports in the German press today that the ruling parties are searching for ways to make discrimination based on your vaccination status illegal [0]. It seems to be already illegal for the government, but not so for private companies. For example, it seems to be perfectly legal at the moment for restaurants or airlines to only allow vaccinated people to enter. The fear of a schism and a further radicalization of vaccine opponents and corona skeptics is great. [0] https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/union-und-spd-pruefen-verbot-von-privilegien-fuer-corona-geimpfte-17122421.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/union-und-spd-pru...
- hef19898 6y agoAnd still the majority is pro-vacination. And pro lockdowns. German politicians are way to worried about an extremely loud, and arguably dangerous, minority. That is part of the reason why we missed our opportunity to prevent a third wave right for Christmas by locking down earlier in November. Seems our politicians didn't learn a thing. We should just ignore those Querdenker and anti-vaxxers, enforce sanitary rules on their gatherings and do everything we can to defeat Covid. Otherwise this thing will become a bigger and bigger mess.
- lqet 6y ago> an extremely loud, and arguably dangerous, minority I fear this minority will grow significantly as soon as only an extremely small minority of vaccinated people is allowed to eat at restaurants, enter an airplane or visit a concert. Please remember that the overwhelming majority of the population currently has no access to vaccination, and won't have access for months to come.
- hef19898 6y agoAnd until everybody could have had access, the limitations you describe won't be put in place. Afterwards, things are different. But hey, when people refuse you can't help them. masks would be an option so, but anti-vaxxers won't wear those neither. Entirely their problem, if you ask me.
- throwawaysea 6y agoWhat happened to bodily autonomy and privacy? The officials’ comments in this article are downplaying what they would use this information for, which seems like gaslighting. They can’t expect us to believe that they would collect this data just for fun. Personally I don’t think coercive methods to get people to undergo medical procedures like vaccination is morally acceptable. Even the vaccinations that public schools in some states require is a violation of bodily autonomy. And the suggestions that we tie freedoms of movement like visas to vaccination scares me, especially for the precedent it sets. Why draw the line with COVID-19, where the survival rate is more than 99.5%? And I say this as someone who has all their vaccinations.
- bjeds 6y agoSeems like an optimization of the age-old practice of refusing entry of people into countries who are unable to prove they are vaccinated against common illness. When I travel in for example Africa and South America and Asia I bring my yellow vaccination card together with my passport, and this information is used to make entry decisions when I'm at the border of these countries. I'm not particularly upset at what Spain is doing here. We live in a society where people can travel freely within the European Union (Schengen). If you refuse to be part of societal obligations to combat a dangerous disease, then you shouldn't be upset if your traveling or interactions with other nation states will be impacted in one shape or another.
- johnisgood 6y agoPersonally I would rather take an antibody test instead of the vaccine. I would like to wait before I get the vaccine.
- kwertzzz 6y agoIn my country you need to show that your kid is vaccinated against e.g. Polio before you can let him/her go to daycare. To me, it makes perfect sense, that somebody who wants to go to e.g. a music festival in 2022 without a face mask, should be able to prove that he is vaccinated (assuming vaccinated people are not infectious, which still needs to be shown, but this is quite likely). Keeping a record of those who refused vaccination might not be necessary for this. In fact, somebody who refused vaccination is as much as a health risk as somebody who has not (yet) the possibility to get vaccinated. But vaccinated people should have the possibility to prove that they are vaccinated and current social distancing rules should no longer apply to these people.
- aivisol 6y agoWouldn't it make more sense to have a register of those who are vaccinated instead of those who refused it? I think the former one could be more less justifiable and have some (potentially) beneficial uses, but the latter one has more potential for abuse than benefits.
- tareqak 6y agoI presume that a register of those who have been vaccinated would be a much larger list. It would however aid efforts of everyone having a “vaccine passport” to help with getting international travel back to normal. A whitelist (as in people of who have been vaccinated) does seem to be more sensible to be in the case of international travel in case the vaccine passport is lost while traveling for example.
- thinkingemote 6y agoMost of this news is a kind of compliance behaviour modification marketing. They dangle the carrot and stick to encourage things and discourage others. So this might encourage those who need a stick to vaccinate them, a threat of lack of privacy. In reality, in 1 year or so, most countries will find their vaccinations have worked and spending billions on tracking them is not worth it. What we should expect are new messaging when many have been vaccinated and many have not. How do you deal with people in freedom and those without?
- panda21 6y agoI'm curious how they'll maintain the list with how mutative coronaviruses are. My guess is it's primarily for the initial vaccination but I'm not noticing any mention of what they'll do for mutations.