4 ms·

What I don't like about this quote is that it pretends you just have to choose between all these attractive and worthwhile goals and that the choosing is the di

What I don't like about this quote is that it pretends you just have to choose between all these attractive and worthwhile goals and that the choosing is the difficult part. In reality though you may opt for a career, leave the family but fail. Or you may put your career on a lower pitch only to have your wife and you decide it won't really work out. In reality, it's more like you start to climb for a fat purple fig only to find it rotten, or just edible. At least in some of the cases, and it won't be your fault and your success depends on how you deal with the said fig. Maybe you can still climb to another?

shortandsweet 6y ago
Why do you assume it's not your fault?
- selestify 6y ago
  Depends on your perspective, obviously. But personally I'd say we're much more a victim of circumstance than the other way around, and all success or failure is only very partially dependent on the choices we made.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- dm319 6y ago
  We aren't nearly as in control of our lives as we like to think, and we often construct stories and arcs to explain our paths. Actually, most of what has happened to us, whether we've been successful or not, is down to chance, starting with the family and location you were born into.
- adrianN 6y ago
  A large part of life is just luck. Think of all the chance events that had a big impact on your life. For me for example, almost all my success hinges on me randomly seeing a certain poster in a hallway in 2008.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Extreme example: You are the ultimate decision making machine that never makes any mistakes. Did you choose to be that machine?
    - StavrosK 6y ago
      Yes. That was a mistake.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    Pretty much my entire social circle hinges on one of my sister's friends wanting to go see Iron Maiden in 2014, she asked me to go along with her, because she didn't want to go by herself. I happened to reconnect with a childhood friend in that crowd of 15,000+ and that got the ball rolling.
    - getlawgdon 6y ago
      ...and every event and choice that led to that...
  - F_J_H 6y ago
    Some people are quite good at increasing their "luck surface area".
ben_w 6y ago
Analysis paralysis and the paradox of choice (the idea not the book) have been known about since Aesop, though I agree that in the real world we must also make do without even knowing which paths even lead to good outcomes. • https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis • https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice
dm319 6y ago
Yes I agree, but maybe the quote means it in the sense that these were potential outcomes, which became impossible at some point. I agree it is arrogant to assume all these futures are within their grasp.
0df8dkdf 6y ago
>What I don't like about this quote is that it pretends you just have to choose between all these attractive and worthwhile goals and that the choosing is the difficult part. For sure, however it is better to have tried and experienced than not have. I have tried and failed at picking many of those figs, and it is worth it, the good and bad. Don't stand there, give yourself a time, and then chose freely.
- derangedHorse 6y ago
  Not always, be too scattered and you’ll fail at everything where you might’ve succeeded trying persistently with one
  - 0df8dkdf 6y ago
    for sure, depending what is important to each person. Success is a subjective. Maybe some live for exploration, and some for execution... It really just comes down to fulling what make sense for oneself. ;-)
CaptArmchair 6y ago
The quote makes more sense if you take a look at the life of its author, Sylvia Plath. [1] She struggled with mental health issues and depression most of her life. She excelled academically and she was driven to write, but at the same time, she struggled with her own self. Her life is marked by several suicide attempts. She married the poet Ted Hughes and moved around frequently during their short marriage. While she was ambitious, a deep sense of anxiety kept her from exploring and expressing her own identity through her writing. Most of her poetry was written during a short burst of creativity, over the course of a few months, in late 1962. She died of suicide in 1963. Her famous novel, The Bell Jar, was published a month before her death. Major themes in this novel include "socially acceptable identity" and mental health. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Plath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Plath [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Jar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Jar Your criticism is a certainly correct, but would have been removed to the author of the quote. As Plath received treatment and openly discussed her mental health issues, undoubtedly she was told this many times over.
- croissants 6y ago
  > She married the poet Ted Hughes and moved around frequently during their short marriage. My understanding is that Ted Hughes' contribution to Plath's mental health went beyond "mov[ing] around frequently during their short marriage" [1]. > In 2017, previously unpublished letters written by Plath between 18 February 1960 and 4 February 1963 accuse Hughes of physically abusing her months before she miscarried their second child in 1961. Hughes also began an affair with another woman, Assia Wevill, in 1962 and (apparently) had a kid with her in 1965. Plath knew about the former and committed suicide in 1963. Wevill also killed herself as well as her child with Hughes in 1969 after, you guessed it, "Hughes began affairs with Brenda Hedden, a married acquaintance who frequented their home, and Carol Orchard, a nurse 20 years his junior, whom he would later marry in 1970" [2]. It might be too reductive to say Hughes just drove two women to suicide, but it seems like we can be confident that he had, uh, extensive personal failings? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hughes#Death_of_Sylvia_Plath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hughes#Death_of_Sylvia_Pla... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assia_Wevill#Ted_Hughes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assia_Wevill#Ted_Hughes
state_less 6y ago
You might try picking some of the figs that are at ground level and see how they taste, if good, generalize to the whole tree and decide if it’s worth the climb. You might find someone climbing the tree and ask them if they could tell you how they taste up top. Sitting in the crotch of the tree lamenting your situation is a fig too. We all bite into a sour one every now and again.
ivvve 6y ago
I think this is something the author knew, but this is not an uncommon and painful thought many people have. It's exactly the falsity of this that makes it more painful. Of course life is far more complex than just picking, but this is a perfect example of that painful fantasy.
gfxgirl 6y ago
No, you can't. I'm in my mid 50s. I can't go back and change my decision (non-decision decision) to not have a family. I wanted one. The choices I made or the chances that came by depending on how you look at it got me where I am today. Mid 50s. I'm not going to birth kids. I'm also not likely to be able to change my career to anything that requires 10-15 years of study before I can get a good position in that career. Going forward I also need to choose things that payout so that I can afford to pay for my life once people won't keep giving me work.
- teekert 6y ago
  I agree with you, that is why I said, maybe you can still reach for another. Maybe not. If things turn out differently than you though, happiness is still about how you deal with the fig you got, either on purpose or not.

shortandsweet 6y ago

Why do you assume it's not your fault?

selestify 6y ago
Depends on your perspective, obviously. But personally I'd say we're much more a victim of circumstance than the other way around, and all success or failure is only very partially dependent on the choices we made.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dm319 6y ago
We aren't nearly as in control of our lives as we like to think, and we often construct stories and arcs to explain our paths. Actually, most of what has happened to us, whether we've been successful or not, is down to chance, starting with the family and location you were born into.
adrianN 6y ago
A large part of life is just luck. Think of all the chance events that had a big impact on your life. For me for example, almost all my success hinges on me randomly seeing a certain poster in a hallway in 2008.
- imtringued 6y ago
  Extreme example: You are the ultimate decision making machine that never makes any mistakes. Did you choose to be that machine?
  - StavrosK 6y ago
    Yes. That was a mistake.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  Pretty much my entire social circle hinges on one of my sister's friends wanting to go see Iron Maiden in 2014, she asked me to go along with her, because she didn't want to go by herself. I happened to reconnect with a childhood friend in that crowd of 15,000+ and that got the ball rolling.
  - getlawgdon 6y ago
    ...and every event and choice that led to that...
- F_J_H 6y ago
  Some people are quite good at increasing their "luck surface area".

ben_w 6y ago

Analysis paralysis and the paradox of choice (the idea not the book) have been known about since Aesop, though I agree that in the real world we must also make do without even knowing which paths even lead to good outcomes. • https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis • https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

dm319 6y ago

Yes I agree, but maybe the quote means it in the sense that these were potential outcomes, which became impossible at some point. I agree it is arrogant to assume all these futures are within their grasp.

0df8dkdf 6y ago

>What I don't like about this quote is that it pretends you just have to choose between all these attractive and worthwhile goals and that the choosing is the difficult part. For sure, however it is better to have tried and experienced than not have. I have tried and failed at picking many of those figs, and it is worth it, the good and bad. Don't stand there, give yourself a time, and then chose freely.

derangedHorse 6y ago
Not always, be too scattered and you’ll fail at everything where you might’ve succeeded trying persistently with one
- 0df8dkdf 6y ago
  for sure, depending what is important to each person. Success is a subjective. Maybe some live for exploration, and some for execution... It really just comes down to fulling what make sense for oneself. ;-)

CaptArmchair 6y ago

The quote makes more sense if you take a look at the life of its author, Sylvia Plath. [1] She struggled with mental health issues and depression most of her life. She excelled academically and she was driven to write, but at the same time, she struggled with her own self. Her life is marked by several suicide attempts. She married the poet Ted Hughes and moved around frequently during their short marriage. While she was ambitious, a deep sense of anxiety kept her from exploring and expressing her own identity through her writing. Most of her poetry was written during a short burst of creativity, over the course of a few months, in late 1962. She died of suicide in 1963. Her famous novel, The Bell Jar, was published a month before her death. Major themes in this novel include "socially acceptable identity" and mental health. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Plath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Plath [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Jar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Jar Your criticism is a certainly correct, but would have been removed to the author of the quote. As Plath received treatment and openly discussed her mental health issues, undoubtedly she was told this many times over.

croissants 6y ago
> She married the poet Ted Hughes and moved around frequently during their short marriage. My understanding is that Ted Hughes' contribution to Plath's mental health went beyond "mov[ing] around frequently during their short marriage" [1]. > In 2017, previously unpublished letters written by Plath between 18 February 1960 and 4 February 1963 accuse Hughes of physically abusing her months before she miscarried their second child in 1961. Hughes also began an affair with another woman, Assia Wevill, in 1962 and (apparently) had a kid with her in 1965. Plath knew about the former and committed suicide in 1963. Wevill also killed herself as well as her child with Hughes in 1969 after, you guessed it, "Hughes began affairs with Brenda Hedden, a married acquaintance who frequented their home, and Carol Orchard, a nurse 20 years his junior, whom he would later marry in 1970" [2]. It might be too reductive to say Hughes just drove two women to suicide, but it seems like we can be confident that he had, uh, extensive personal failings? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hughes#Death_of_Sylvia_Plath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Hughes#Death_of_Sylvia_Pla... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assia_Wevill#Ted_Hughes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assia_Wevill#Ted_Hughes

state_less 6y ago

You might try picking some of the figs that are at ground level and see how they taste, if good, generalize to the whole tree and decide if it’s worth the climb. You might find someone climbing the tree and ask them if they could tell you how they taste up top. Sitting in the crotch of the tree lamenting your situation is a fig too. We all bite into a sour one every now and again.

ivvve 6y ago

I think this is something the author knew, but this is not an uncommon and painful thought many people have. It's exactly the falsity of this that makes it more painful. Of course life is far more complex than just picking, but this is a perfect example of that painful fantasy.

gfxgirl 6y ago

No, you can't. I'm in my mid 50s. I can't go back and change my decision (non-decision decision) to not have a family. I wanted one. The choices I made or the chances that came by depending on how you look at it got me where I am today. Mid 50s. I'm not going to birth kids. I'm also not likely to be able to change my career to anything that requires 10-15 years of study before I can get a good position in that career. Going forward I also need to choose things that payout so that I can afford to pay for my life once people won't keep giving me work.

teekert 6y ago
I agree with you, that is why I said, maybe you can still reach for another. Maybe not. If things turn out differently than you though, happiness is still about how you deal with the fig you got, either on purpose or not.