8 ms·

Palantir lands £23m NHS data deal

catchmilk 6y ago
> "it could involve an ‘unprecedented’ transfer of citizens’ private health information to controversial private firms like Palantir" Probably a dumb question, but - if every other entity in the EU has to comply with GDPR rules, why don't they have to? How is it that the government can pass the data so freely to Palantir? I know that GDPR won't apply anymore after the 1st of Jan, but it still applied during the transition period?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fakedang 6y ago
  The terms are written so that they come into effect after the 1st of Jan. Just as how FB and Twitter will start the process of moving data to the US after Jan 1st.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Ah good, another win for Brexit. Truly, unmitigated success. It's amazing how the pro vote was to strengthen the sovereignty of Britain outside of the EU and all indications are that sovereignty was just, uh, transferred to anyone who will pay in exchange for stop-the-bleeding type trade deals.
- agd 6y ago
  GDPR does apply. UK has it implemented as domestic legislation. Lots of confusion and FUD about this. We have exactly the same rules today as we will in 2021.
  - catchmilk 6y ago
    So then the question is justified - how is it that if I go to gov.uk, the first popup I get is whether I accept cookies for data privacy. Yet they will seemingly get to send sensitive NHS data without consulting the respective owners of that information? I'm certainly not pretending to be nowhere near knowledgeable about the topic, and it would be great to hear from someone that does, but it seems to me that the public has legal GDPR grounds on which to protest this data transfer? I, for one, certainly don't want Palantir holding my data.
    - agd 6y ago
      Well it’s not clear which datasets palantir have access to, so I have no idea if this contradicts our data privacy laws or not.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      The GDPR requires data controllers to ensure data processors respect GDPR rights, so the public could protest if they don’t think Palantir will do that. But there’s no GDPR provision requiring user consent to a controller’s choice of processors.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      > without consulting the respective owners of that information? What bit of GDPR do you think requires this?
    - Silhouette 6y ago
      For general information, the GDPR makes specific provision for processing of personal data in the public interest[1] and in particular for processing of sensitive personal data (including health data) in relation to public health situations[2]. Explicit consent is not necessarily required by the GDPR in such situations[3]. However, there is also an obligation under Article 9 to have "law which provides for suitable and specific measures to safeguard the rights and freedoms of the data subject, in particular professional secrecy", and more generally the provisions of the GDPR about acceptable processing and protecting data subjects still apply. Recital 54 also specifically states, "Such processing of data concerning health for reasons of public interest should not result in personal data being processed for other purposes by third parties such as employers or insurance and banking companies." So as things stand, it appears that the UK government won't necessarily be in violation of the GDPR by giving personal health data to Palantir, but any processing will only be legal if the required safeguards are explicitly encoded in law and if that data is not being processed by Palantir for any other purposes. [1] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-6-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-6-gdpr/ at 1(e) [2] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/ at 2(i) [3] https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-54/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-54/
- albertgoeswoof 6y ago
  Uk GDPR will apply, and they will have to comply- all rules have been inherited
- atmosx 6y ago
  Austria, Greece and another EU country have already adopted the same software. I believe there are some exceptions to GDPR when governments are involved.
prepend 6y ago
> like Palantir: a secretive artificial intelligence outfit This is a funny way of describing Palantir. They are just consultants plus data management software. That’s it. They are no more “AI” than any company that can run Python pipelines. I’m not sure if this is PR by Palantir trying to up their stock. Or stupid press not understanding data engineering.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- forgingahead 6y ago
  stupid press not understanding Bingo -- not just limited to data engineering though.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- atmosx 6y ago
  I believe the concerns raised are valid. Palantir had CIA as the only client for years. Was “adopted” in Greece right after Pompeo’s visit. A coincidence? Maybe. The company and the CEO have a questionable reputation and ideas about things I value like “democracy”, it was given to the Greek state for “free” apparently and in 2020 we all know what “free” means. To top it all, Palantir has already being accused of selling public records data obtained by police departments in US states to private corporations. So for all we know they are just funneling data to the CIA and selling data to private corporations while providing trivial “big data” services to governments. By the way, the EU is monitoring Palantir’s presence in Europe. There is feeling that Palantir’a services are “planted” rather than “requested”. Before Snowden one could argue these are wild conspiracies, post-Snowden, I cannot think of a reason for a government to accept official spyware on its digital soil other than lack of sovereignty. Would China and Russia accept Palantir as a big data analysis system to fight COVID?
  - secfirstmd 6y ago
    They also have made a big push into the data of NGOs and the UN. Many of which collect very sensitive data in some countries with some very complex political, economic and social issues. Palantir was often doing this for free. Maybe it's the cynic in me but in the same way I'd guess NSO Group does in the Middle East, somewhere something would be phoning home to Palantir's bigger customers (CIA, NSA) etc
xwdv 6y ago
Always telling people, if you’re looking for massive returns on an investment, you should be picking up Palantir stock. This company will be huge. Posting this now so I can link it later in a year.
- webinvest 6y ago
  I’m not sure about that. There are plenty of other companies and funds that will return more that don’t come with the ethical and moral baggage. When you wake up 10 years from now, will it be a world you want to live in?
  - xwdv 6y ago
    Like who? I don't know why people get caught up in the "ethical and moral baggage". You have no real power to determine what the world in 10 years will look like. You do however have the ability to control what your world looks like, when you are sitting on bags of money. Sail in the direction of the wind, not against it.
    - webinvest 6y ago
      That’s like saying your vote doesn’t matter, so why vote?! I will still be a millionaire one day regardless of my ethical views because I know how to invest money well; the only question is when. Tesla and Nio are up in a large part because investors just want to see Tesla and Nio in their future. It’s a nudge towards green energy like all the green energy stocks. It’s not the little guys pulling the strings, it’s the big whales that have more money than they know what to do with and that brings a different kind of incentives. Look at SeaWorld Holdings. Not the best financials and doesn’t always make a profit but people love going to Busch Gardens because it’s a wonderful paradise and they want it to stay in their future. All 3 of these companies I mentioned are outperforming that surveillance and spying stock for good reasons. You might not be convinced yet so here’s some further evidence. First look at the websites of Morningstar and see how much of the screen real estate is dedicated towards ethical and responsible investments. Years ago, this didn’t exist. Look at the returns of VOO vs. ESGV now. You’ll see that ESGV has outperformed VOO! Do you know what sucks more than being on the bad side? Being on the bad and the loosing side. :)
mandragon 6y ago
I was once hacked, stalked and targeted by friends of a celebrity who I had just met. I tried pursuing help about it and was threatened with murder. Then, after promising to report the murder threat, I was told by another person in that social circle that if I talked about the previous incidents that my career reputation would be permanently ruined. The last person told me in the same conversation that Peter Thiel would recognize him. As Mr. Thiel has many interests, there was no reason to believe this person was connected to Palantir. However, Palantir sure came to mind while I processed this last interaction like a deer in headlights.
- Answerawake 6y ago
  >I was once hacked, stalked and targeted by friends of a celebrity who I had just met. Why? What was their motivation.
  - mandragon 6y ago
    I can only speculate, but it was during the course of a reference check for someone connected to this circle. So, likely this was done to look into me, demonstrate power over me, and let me know they are "watching".
    - Answerawake 6y ago
      Was it a Hollywood "A-Lister" celebrity? I only ask because i'm considering moving to LA and sounds like I should stay away from those weirdos. :)
      - mandragon 6y ago
        connected to A-list circles many celebs have personal protection details. how such protection details behave likely varies widely.. as for your concerns, pay close attention to your cybersecurity posture before engaging with people who will draw attention to you simply by association.
hyko 6y ago
Fuck This Shit
jcomis 6y ago
For some reason across many sites I go on it seems every Palantir deal warrants a post. It feels like astroturfing. Like there's some campaign of "hey this company sure is shady, but look at all these consistent gov contracts! gee whiz it's just gonna be a good investment though! Better get in!"
notretarded 6y ago
No one has ever been fired for buying IBM. Same goes with hiring consulting firms.
Executor 6y ago
Peter Thiel met with White nationalists? Time to start buying Palantir stocks!
atc 6y ago
This is a very poorly written article and is steeped in mysticism and conspiracy-like rhetoric. FYI, OpenDemocracy is run, written & edited by a Scottish Nationalist. The website is less about "open democracy" and more about anti-UK sentiment and is backed by like-minded funds/organisations (David & Elaine Potter Foundation, the Bertha Foundation, the Roddick Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the Oak Foundation, eBay founder Pierre Omidyar’s Luminate, and the Open Society Foundation created by George Soros, the billionaire investor - https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2019/05/16/how-open-democracy-finds-funding-investigate-dark-money-politics https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2019/05/16/how-open-democrac...). It is very far from the neutral & transparent journalism it likes to present itself as.
atc 6y ago
My previous comment to this effect has been hidden. No idea why. This is a very poorly written article and is steeped in mysticism and conspiracy-like rhetoric. FYI, OpenDemocracy is run, written & edited by a Scottish Nationalist. The website is less about "open democracy" and more about anti-UK sentiment and is backed by like-minded funds/organisations (David & Elaine Potter Foundation, the Bertha Foundation, the Roddick Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the Oak Foundation, eBay founder Pierre Omidyar’s Luminate, and the Open Society Foundation created by George Soros, the billionaire investor - https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2019/05/16/how-open-democrac https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2019/05/16/how-open-democrac...). It is very far from the neutral & transparent journalism it likes to present itself as.

> "it could involve an ‘unprecedented’ transfer of citizens’ private health information to controversial private firms like Palantir" Probably a dumb question, but - if every other entity in the EU has to comply with GDPR rules, why don't they have to? How is it that the government can pass the data so freely to Palantir? I know that GDPR won't apply anymore after the 1st of Jan, but it still applied during the transition period?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
fakedang 6y ago
The terms are written so that they come into effect after the 1st of Jan. Just as how FB and Twitter will start the process of moving data to the US after Jan 1st.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Ah good, another win for Brexit. Truly, unmitigated success. It's amazing how the pro vote was to strengthen the sovereignty of Britain outside of the EU and all indications are that sovereignty was just, uh, transferred to anyone who will pay in exchange for stop-the-bleeding type trade deals.
agd 6y ago
GDPR does apply. UK has it implemented as domestic legislation. Lots of confusion and FUD about this. We have exactly the same rules today as we will in 2021.
- catchmilk 6y ago
  So then the question is justified - how is it that if I go to gov.uk, the first popup I get is whether I accept cookies for data privacy. Yet they will seemingly get to send sensitive NHS data without consulting the respective owners of that information? I'm certainly not pretending to be nowhere near knowledgeable about the topic, and it would be great to hear from someone that does, but it seems to me that the public has legal GDPR grounds on which to protest this data transfer? I, for one, certainly don't want Palantir holding my data.
  - agd 6y ago
    Well it’s not clear which datasets palantir have access to, so I have no idea if this contradicts our data privacy laws or not.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    The GDPR requires data controllers to ensure data processors respect GDPR rights, so the public could protest if they don’t think Palantir will do that. But there’s no GDPR provision requiring user consent to a controller’s choice of processors.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    > without consulting the respective owners of that information? What bit of GDPR do you think requires this?
  - Silhouette 6y ago
    For general information, the GDPR makes specific provision for processing of personal data in the public interest[1] and in particular for processing of sensitive personal data (including health data) in relation to public health situations[2]. Explicit consent is not necessarily required by the GDPR in such situations[3]. However, there is also an obligation under Article 9 to have "law which provides for suitable and specific measures to safeguard the rights and freedoms of the data subject, in particular professional secrecy", and more generally the provisions of the GDPR about acceptable processing and protecting data subjects still apply. Recital 54 also specifically states, "Such processing of data concerning health for reasons of public interest should not result in personal data being processed for other purposes by third parties such as employers or insurance and banking companies." So as things stand, it appears that the UK government won't necessarily be in violation of the GDPR by giving personal health data to Palantir, but any processing will only be legal if the required safeguards are explicitly encoded in law and if that data is not being processed by Palantir for any other purposes. [1] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-6-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-6-gdpr/ at 1(e) [2] https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-9-gdpr/ at 2(i) [3] https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-54/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-54/
albertgoeswoof 6y ago
Uk GDPR will apply, and they will have to comply- all rules have been inherited
atmosx 6y ago
Austria, Greece and another EU country have already adopted the same software. I believe there are some exceptions to GDPR when governments are involved.

prepend 6y ago

> like Palantir: a secretive artificial intelligence outfit This is a funny way of describing Palantir. They are just consultants plus data management software. That’s it. They are no more “AI” than any company that can run Python pipelines. I’m not sure if this is PR by Palantir trying to up their stock. Or stupid press not understanding data engineering.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
forgingahead 6y ago
stupid press not understanding Bingo -- not just limited to data engineering though.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
atmosx 6y ago
I believe the concerns raised are valid. Palantir had CIA as the only client for years. Was “adopted” in Greece right after Pompeo’s visit. A coincidence? Maybe. The company and the CEO have a questionable reputation and ideas about things I value like “democracy”, it was given to the Greek state for “free” apparently and in 2020 we all know what “free” means. To top it all, Palantir has already being accused of selling public records data obtained by police departments in US states to private corporations. So for all we know they are just funneling data to the CIA and selling data to private corporations while providing trivial “big data” services to governments. By the way, the EU is monitoring Palantir’s presence in Europe. There is feeling that Palantir’a services are “planted” rather than “requested”. Before Snowden one could argue these are wild conspiracies, post-Snowden, I cannot think of a reason for a government to accept official spyware on its digital soil other than lack of sovereignty. Would China and Russia accept Palantir as a big data analysis system to fight COVID?
- secfirstmd 6y ago
  They also have made a big push into the data of NGOs and the UN. Many of which collect very sensitive data in some countries with some very complex political, economic and social issues. Palantir was often doing this for free. Maybe it's the cynic in me but in the same way I'd guess NSO Group does in the Middle East, somewhere something would be phoning home to Palantir's bigger customers (CIA, NSA) etc

xwdv 6y ago

Always telling people, if you’re looking for massive returns on an investment, you should be picking up Palantir stock. This company will be huge. Posting this now so I can link it later in a year.

webinvest 6y ago
I’m not sure about that. There are plenty of other companies and funds that will return more that don’t come with the ethical and moral baggage. When you wake up 10 years from now, will it be a world you want to live in?
- xwdv 6y ago
  Like who? I don't know why people get caught up in the "ethical and moral baggage". You have no real power to determine what the world in 10 years will look like. You do however have the ability to control what your world looks like, when you are sitting on bags of money. Sail in the direction of the wind, not against it.
  - webinvest 6y ago
    That’s like saying your vote doesn’t matter, so why vote?! I will still be a millionaire one day regardless of my ethical views because I know how to invest money well; the only question is when. Tesla and Nio are up in a large part because investors just want to see Tesla and Nio in their future. It’s a nudge towards green energy like all the green energy stocks. It’s not the little guys pulling the strings, it’s the big whales that have more money than they know what to do with and that brings a different kind of incentives. Look at SeaWorld Holdings. Not the best financials and doesn’t always make a profit but people love going to Busch Gardens because it’s a wonderful paradise and they want it to stay in their future. All 3 of these companies I mentioned are outperforming that surveillance and spying stock for good reasons. You might not be convinced yet so here’s some further evidence. First look at the websites of Morningstar and see how much of the screen real estate is dedicated towards ethical and responsible investments. Years ago, this didn’t exist. Look at the returns of VOO vs. ESGV now. You’ll see that ESGV has outperformed VOO! Do you know what sucks more than being on the bad side? Being on the bad and the loosing side. :)

mandragon 6y ago

I was once hacked, stalked and targeted by friends of a celebrity who I had just met. I tried pursuing help about it and was threatened with murder. Then, after promising to report the murder threat, I was told by another person in that social circle that if I talked about the previous incidents that my career reputation would be permanently ruined. The last person told me in the same conversation that Peter Thiel would recognize him. As Mr. Thiel has many interests, there was no reason to believe this person was connected to Palantir. However, Palantir sure came to mind while I processed this last interaction like a deer in headlights.

Answerawake 6y ago
>I was once hacked, stalked and targeted by friends of a celebrity who I had just met. Why? What was their motivation.
- mandragon 6y ago
  I can only speculate, but it was during the course of a reference check for someone connected to this circle. So, likely this was done to look into me, demonstrate power over me, and let me know they are "watching".
  - Answerawake 6y ago
    Was it a Hollywood "A-Lister" celebrity? I only ask because i'm considering moving to LA and sounds like I should stay away from those weirdos. :)
    - mandragon 6y ago
      connected to A-list circles many celebs have personal protection details. how such protection details behave likely varies widely.. as for your concerns, pay close attention to your cybersecurity posture before engaging with people who will draw attention to you simply by association.

hyko 6y ago

Fuck This Shit

jcomis 6y ago

For some reason across many sites I go on it seems every Palantir deal warrants a post. It feels like astroturfing. Like there's some campaign of "hey this company sure is shady, but look at all these consistent gov contracts! gee whiz it's just gonna be a good investment though! Better get in!"

notretarded 6y ago

No one has ever been fired for buying IBM. Same goes with hiring consulting firms.

Executor 6y ago

Peter Thiel met with White nationalists? Time to start buying Palantir stocks!

atc 6y ago

This is a very poorly written article and is steeped in mysticism and conspiracy-like rhetoric. FYI, OpenDemocracy is run, written & edited by a Scottish Nationalist. The website is less about "open democracy" and more about anti-UK sentiment and is backed by like-minded funds/organisations (David & Elaine Potter Foundation, the Bertha Foundation, the Roddick Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the Oak Foundation, eBay founder Pierre Omidyar’s Luminate, and the Open Society Foundation created by George Soros, the billionaire investor - https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2019/05/16/how-open-democracy-finds-funding-investigate-dark-money-politics https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2019/05/16/how-open-democrac...). It is very far from the neutral & transparent journalism it likes to present itself as.

atc 6y ago

My previous comment to this effect has been hidden. No idea why. This is a very poorly written article and is steeped in mysticism and conspiracy-like rhetoric. FYI, OpenDemocracy is run, written & edited by a Scottish Nationalist. The website is less about "open democracy" and more about anti-UK sentiment and is backed by like-minded funds/organisations (David & Elaine Potter Foundation, the Bertha Foundation, the Roddick Foundation, the Ford Foundation, the Oak Foundation, eBay founder Pierre Omidyar’s Luminate, and the Open Society Foundation created by George Soros, the billionaire investor - https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2019/05/16/how-open-democrac https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/2019/05/16/how-open-democrac...). It is very far from the neutral & transparent journalism it likes to present itself as.