18 ms·

"we are not bound by EU rules" Except if the UK wants to export anything to the EU they must abide by the EUs rules for those things (without any say in those

"we are not bound by EU rules" Except if the UK wants to export anything to the EU they must abide by the EUs rules for those things (without any say in those rules what-so-ever).

Retric 6y ago
Plenty of other places to export stuff outside the EU, which makes compliance optional.
- lou1306 6y ago
  Sure, but the European economic zone is both the closest & richest foreign market. Replacing it is not that easy.
  - djohnston 6y ago
    I'm curious about the cost increase for container ship transport to US/CAN vs lorry transport to EU. Containers are cheap when there isn't a pandemic, right?
    - raphaelj 6y ago
      Not all exports/imports can be carried in ships. Think about services or fresh food.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      Less-urgent goods was/is transported from Britain to the continent by container. Mostly ships, but also by train.
    - Ekaros 6y ago
      Probably quite substantial. You still need to move it to port and then from port at destination, instead of driving on lorry...
- EForEndeavour 6y ago
  The EU comprises roughly half of the UK's total trade activity [0], making this attitude of "plenty of other places to export stuff outside the EU" seem rather overconfident. Why would the UK consider compliance with the entity that generates half their trade "optional"? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa...
  - rglullis 6y ago
    It is not "the UK" that manufactures and exports things, it's people living there. Some of these people will want to target the EU as a market, some won't. For those that won't, following the EU regulations is now optional.
  - djohnston 6y ago
    There are winners and losers of any trade deal as mentioned in this thread. Some UK sectors will probably carry on with the EU business as usual, others will abandon the EU and search for better arrangements with other parties. The question you posed assumes that the EU will continue to be involved with half of the UK's trading activity, which I don't buy.
    - notahacker 6y ago
      > The question you posed assumes that the EU will continue to be involved with half of the UK's trading activity, which I don't buy. The difficult bit to buy, hard as Brexiters have been selling it, is that the reduction in the proportion of trading activity with the EU will be compensated for by an increase in trading activity with countries which are further away, more protectionist and/or poorer, as opposed to just a reduction in trade overall.
      - Retric 6y ago
        It’s more than just exports. Regulations, imports from the EU, taxes paid to the EU, and tourists to and from the EU are also part of the equation. So the UK might be better off outside the EU when you ignore trade. Having said that, offsetting some of the drop in EU exports with and increase in non EU exports seems likely and could allow for a net benefit even assuming a net drop in total exports.
- jorge-d 6y ago
  While this is true, the UK export to the UE was around 45% of the total shares (2018)[1]. So the Brits might look at new markets but cutting that share because they don't want to comply with regulations would disrupt their exports. [1] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7851/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...
  - Retric 6y ago
    Compliance is on a product by product bases. Inside the EU when compliance is mandatory it consisted of 45% of exports. To use an extreme example, if the UK suddenly decides to legalize pot they could then export that while continuing to export every other product under EU regulation. Net result an increase in exports.
    - estaseuropano 6y ago
      I doubt there's EU legislation on weed...
    - iso947 6y ago
      Netherlands seems to cope fine with pot inside the EU. The whole goal of brexit seems to be to lower U.K. food standards to that of the US.
- imtringued 6y ago
  That argument would be fine if the UK already had some negotiated trade deals lined up. The truth is that for the UK the Brexit happened way too quickly despite all the cries that the EU will try to keep them as long as possible. Yet it took them four years to figure out what they even wanted from the EU. If it took them so long how come they were so confident about Brexit in the first place?
  - Brakenshire 6y ago
    That actually isn't true: > As an EU member, the UK was automatically part of about 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade. > So far, 29 of these existing deals, covering 58 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. The latest deal to be struck was with Mexico on 15 December. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
zelos 6y ago
Yes, the Brussels effect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect One could say the UK has given back control...
- blibble 6y ago
  this becomes less of an issue with each passing year as the EU's share of world GDP decreases https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/GDP%20graph%20world%20vs%20EU%202.JPG https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/GDP%20graph%20world%20vs%...
  - jasdine817 6y ago
    This is due to the rise of China. The UKs main export market is the EU so it makes sense for it to stay in the organisation that governs regulations in that market.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
patrickaljord 6y ago
Isn't that the case of any country around the world? Doesn't mean the whole world should join the EU.
- Leherenn 6y ago
  Most do not have the same volume/percentage with the EU though.
- richrichardsson 6y ago
  Sure, but the point is that we had some sort of say in the regulations whilst being bound to them, now we don't. That doesn't sound like "control" to me.
  - Brakenshire 6y ago
    It’s like saying to a US state, would you rather have seats in Congress, or would you rather federal law be optional.
    - Balgair 6y ago
      Oh, also, now that your state has 'left', you've got to get a visa to go over to the rest of the US now. And you'll need to pay tariffs to get good in or out. And you'll need to abide by our laws on those import and exports, things like emissions for cars, pesticides, safety regulations, that stuff.
      - Brakenshire 6y ago
        you've got to get a visa to go over to the rest of the US now. For business yes, for tourism no. And you'll need to pay tariffs to get good in or out. This is a zero tariff agreement. And you'll need to abide by our laws on those import and exports, things like emissions for cars, pesticides, safety regulations, that stuff. Yes, but that applies for all exports/imports under any circumstances.
LatteLazy 6y ago
Don't forget, before we had a say (even a veto sometimes) over EU rules. Now we actually do have to just accept whatever Brussels decides for the bendiness of our bananas...
- hardlianotion 6y ago
  Quite some effort has been expended to ensure that this is not the case.
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    Really? By who? I haven't seen that from anyone in the brexit camp or government. Either way, once that deal is signed, the effort was wasted and we'll finally actually be in the crazy dumb position brexiteers thought we were in.
  - nmca 6y ago
    I think parent means for goods sold in the EU - and they correctly point out that we have lost direct influence over the regulations in a collosal trading block. (The effort was to ensure that we didn't have to follow the eu regs in the UK market too).
- krona 6y ago
  One tends to loose friends and get alienated when you start throwing veto's around. It's just not very British, is it?
- lmm 6y ago
  And how did that work out for the UK? The UK opened up their procurement to anywhere in the EU, but the EU found ways to avoid offering service contracts to UK companies. National operators from the EU run most of the UK's trains, while the UK's government gets blocked from even running its own, yet alone anyone else's. Countries with manufacturing economies and a... relaxed attitude to actually following the rules benefited; countries with service economies and a strong sense of fair play lost out.
  - 6y ago
hardlianotion 6y ago
And vice versa.
shard972 6y ago
Is that not how every country in history works? What cases except vassal states can another country dictate the terms of export? Especially when the free trade era is a relatively tiny era in the history of nations and trade.

"we are not bound by EU rules" Except if the UK wants to export anything to the EU they must abide by the EUs rules for those things (without any say in those rules what-so-ever).

Retric 6y ago

Plenty of other places to export stuff outside the EU, which makes compliance optional.

lou1306 6y ago
Sure, but the European economic zone is both the closest & richest foreign market. Replacing it is not that easy.
- djohnston 6y ago
  I'm curious about the cost increase for container ship transport to US/CAN vs lorry transport to EU. Containers are cheap when there isn't a pandemic, right?
  - raphaelj 6y ago
    Not all exports/imports can be carried in ships. Think about services or fresh food.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    Less-urgent goods was/is transported from Britain to the continent by container. Mostly ships, but also by train.
  - Ekaros 6y ago
    Probably quite substantial. You still need to move it to port and then from port at destination, instead of driving on lorry...
EForEndeavour 6y ago
The EU comprises roughly half of the UK's total trade activity [0], making this attitude of "plenty of other places to export stuff outside the EU" seem rather overconfident. Why would the UK consider compliance with the entity that generates half their trade "optional"? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa...
- rglullis 6y ago
  It is not "the UK" that manufactures and exports things, it's people living there. Some of these people will want to target the EU as a market, some won't. For those that won't, following the EU regulations is now optional.
- djohnston 6y ago
  There are winners and losers of any trade deal as mentioned in this thread. Some UK sectors will probably carry on with the EU business as usual, others will abandon the EU and search for better arrangements with other parties. The question you posed assumes that the EU will continue to be involved with half of the UK's trading activity, which I don't buy.
  - notahacker 6y ago
    > The question you posed assumes that the EU will continue to be involved with half of the UK's trading activity, which I don't buy. The difficult bit to buy, hard as Brexiters have been selling it, is that the reduction in the proportion of trading activity with the EU will be compensated for by an increase in trading activity with countries which are further away, more protectionist and/or poorer, as opposed to just a reduction in trade overall.
    - Retric 6y ago
      It’s more than just exports. Regulations, imports from the EU, taxes paid to the EU, and tourists to and from the EU are also part of the equation. So the UK might be better off outside the EU when you ignore trade. Having said that, offsetting some of the drop in EU exports with and increase in non EU exports seems likely and could allow for a net benefit even assuming a net drop in total exports.
jorge-d 6y ago
While this is true, the UK export to the UE was around 45% of the total shares (2018)[1]. So the Brits might look at new markets but cutting that share because they don't want to comply with regulations would disrupt their exports. [1] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7851/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...
- Retric 6y ago
  Compliance is on a product by product bases. Inside the EU when compliance is mandatory it consisted of 45% of exports. To use an extreme example, if the UK suddenly decides to legalize pot they could then export that while continuing to export every other product under EU regulation. Net result an increase in exports.
  - estaseuropano 6y ago
    I doubt there's EU legislation on weed...
  - iso947 6y ago
    Netherlands seems to cope fine with pot inside the EU. The whole goal of brexit seems to be to lower U.K. food standards to that of the US.
imtringued 6y ago
That argument would be fine if the UK already had some negotiated trade deals lined up. The truth is that for the UK the Brexit happened way too quickly despite all the cries that the EU will try to keep them as long as possible. Yet it took them four years to figure out what they even wanted from the EU. If it took them so long how come they were so confident about Brexit in the first place?
- Brakenshire 6y ago
  That actually isn't true: > As an EU member, the UK was automatically part of about 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade. > So far, 29 of these existing deals, covering 58 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. The latest deal to be struck was with Mexico on 15 December. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

zelos 6y ago

Yes, the Brussels effect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect One could say the UK has given back control...

blibble 6y ago
this becomes less of an issue with each passing year as the EU's share of world GDP decreases https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/GDP%20graph%20world%20vs%20EU%202.JPG https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/GDP%20graph%20world%20vs%...
- jasdine817 6y ago
  This is due to the rise of China. The UKs main export market is the EU so it makes sense for it to stay in the organisation that governs regulations in that market.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

patrickaljord 6y ago

Isn't that the case of any country around the world? Doesn't mean the whole world should join the EU.

Leherenn 6y ago
Most do not have the same volume/percentage with the EU though.
richrichardsson 6y ago
Sure, but the point is that we had some sort of say in the regulations whilst being bound to them, now we don't. That doesn't sound like "control" to me.
- Brakenshire 6y ago
  It’s like saying to a US state, would you rather have seats in Congress, or would you rather federal law be optional.
  - Balgair 6y ago
    Oh, also, now that your state has 'left', you've got to get a visa to go over to the rest of the US now. And you'll need to pay tariffs to get good in or out. And you'll need to abide by our laws on those import and exports, things like emissions for cars, pesticides, safety regulations, that stuff.
    - Brakenshire 6y ago
      you've got to get a visa to go over to the rest of the US now. For business yes, for tourism no. And you'll need to pay tariffs to get good in or out. This is a zero tariff agreement. And you'll need to abide by our laws on those import and exports, things like emissions for cars, pesticides, safety regulations, that stuff. Yes, but that applies for all exports/imports under any circumstances.

LatteLazy 6y ago

Don't forget, before we had a say (even a veto sometimes) over EU rules. Now we actually do have to just accept whatever Brussels decides for the bendiness of our bananas...

hardlianotion 6y ago
Quite some effort has been expended to ensure that this is not the case.
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  Really? By who? I haven't seen that from anyone in the brexit camp or government. Either way, once that deal is signed, the effort was wasted and we'll finally actually be in the crazy dumb position brexiteers thought we were in.
- nmca 6y ago
  I think parent means for goods sold in the EU - and they correctly point out that we have lost direct influence over the regulations in a collosal trading block. (The effort was to ensure that we didn't have to follow the eu regs in the UK market too).
krona 6y ago
One tends to loose friends and get alienated when you start throwing veto's around. It's just not very British, is it?
lmm 6y ago
And how did that work out for the UK? The UK opened up their procurement to anywhere in the EU, but the EU found ways to avoid offering service contracts to UK companies. National operators from the EU run most of the UK's trains, while the UK's government gets blocked from even running its own, yet alone anyone else's. Countries with manufacturing economies and a... relaxed attitude to actually following the rules benefited; countries with service economies and a strong sense of fair play lost out.
- 6y ago

hardlianotion 6y ago

And vice versa.

shard972 6y ago

Is that not how every country in history works? What cases except vassal states can another country dictate the terms of export? Especially when the free trade era is a relatively tiny era in the history of nations and trade.