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The US could learn from this but is far too anti-immigrant to do the same. Americans accept immigrants into their Armed Forces but regularly deport them even a

The US could learn from this but is far too anti-immigrant to do the same. Americans accept immigrants into their Armed Forces but regularly deport them even after they’ve served and been in combat.

mi_lk 6y ago
> regularly deport them for what reasons?
- aksss 6y ago
  Crime will do it
- gnopgnip 6y ago
  In many countries work visas only last for a limited number of years, if you don't get married, you need to leave or you will be deported.
markdown 6y ago
> Americans accept immigrants into their Armed Forces but regularly deport them even after they’ve served and been in combat. The United Kingdom as well: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/05/where-is-the-fairness-fijis-british-army-veterans-fight-for-a-life-in-uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/05/where-is-the-f...
- koreanguy 6y ago
  unfortunately, sadly i think many of them should have been given right of stay in the country, if they served the nation. that is a extremely heavy deadly job. returning them back home would be unwise .
ulfw 6y ago
Speaking of which... how will Covid vaccinations for the general public happen in America? Do you have to show ID? Passport? Proof citizenship? What about undocumented immigrants? They're human beings and can infect everyone else too. Has anyone thought of them?
- seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  If it’s anything like COVID tests, they will ask for insurance and if you don’t have that they’ll just give you your doses for free. Might depend on the state, however.
HuwytNashi_006 6y ago
If we're talking service, not membership, wouldn't the onus be on Israel in this case?
HeavenFox 6y ago
...whereas three years of service in French Foreign Legion allows you to apply for citizenship, or immediately after you are wounded in battle ("French by spilled blood")
- roel_v 6y ago
  Serving in the Foreign Legion is not like 'being in the military' in other places...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - touisteur 6y ago
    Indeed no... Légion étrangère is very often front-line, opex, desert, jungle... A very special and strange military corps that meddled with politics in the 1960s... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961 And nowadays they select at the entrance.
bruceb 6y ago
This isn't really true. There have been a few isolated cases of former members of the armed services who were convicted of a felony being deported. I don't agree with that happening either but to say they are regularly deported just isn't true. If you serve in the armed forces and don't commit crimes, and apply for citizenship you will most likely get it. Also the US accepts alot more immigrants than Japan, China, and many other countries. Most of the complaints about immigration come down to this, there is much more demand than "supply".
- rtpg 6y ago
  I can't vouch for everything about Japan's immigration policy, nor do I have first-hand experience with the US system. But despite Japan intaking a lot less, people who meet the "baseline requirements" (basically, college degree) can be consistently assured that they can get a work visa and not get arbitrarily kicked out of the country. Similarly, even the smallest companies (like miniscule, 5-people startups) are able to get visas for people who meet the college degree requirement with basically no issue. Also, they don't tie your work visa to your employer[1], so you don't get indentured servitude or the threat of getting kicked out of the country after being fired. Meanwhile I have heard countless horror stories from many people trying to do even the most basic stuff when it comes to immigration in the US. And it sure sounds like you are, at a basic level, treated like a suspicious person who might be a criminal. You can say "oh look at the numbers" but I have heard roughly zero positive things about the American immigration experience. And (what I think is the most important thing), I have heard many stories about the opacity and randomness of the American bureaucracy. And, you know what? Most countries _don't_ just kick someone out on the first crime they commit. And they don't try to hold it over the head of the person. It's possible to have an immigration system that doesn't treat the people coming in as indentured servants. [1] HSFP visa non-excepting, but if you can get HSFP you can get a standard working visa
  - bruceb 6y ago
    If the US had Japan's policy you would hear a lot more complaints as relatively few people would be allowed in. Japan has less than 3m immigrants TOTAL. The US takes in about 1 million a Year. "most countries _don't_ just kick someone out on the first crime they commit." Neither does the US. Most of the time the crimes that lead to deportation are felonies. Why is the US obligated to keep non citizens who commit serious crimes? The US is under no obligation to take anyone. The system certainly isn't perfect, warrants criticize. But some of the complaints are ridiculous and come down to again way more demand than supply. (Update, I don't agree with you, but I hope HNers will not downvote you as a few are)
neither_color 6y ago
The US has the largest immigrant population in the world and one of the highest immigration rates among developed countries. I resent how casually blatantly false anti-US comments like this get voted up without any data to back them up, almost like it's a fad to talk-down America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat...
- conanbatt 6y ago
  That is in spite of immigration policy, not because of it.
  - neither_color 6y ago
    Which policy? The latest H1-B bill which lifts per-country caps passed unanimously in the senate and with a strong majority in the house. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1044 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1044 Certainly different people will have different opinions on what the "right" number of immigrants is but this is not an anti-immigrant country.
    - wahern 6y ago
      That's because it's designed to let in more rich Asians and less poor Latin Americans and Africans. In terms of popular political support I would say that the United States is very anti-immigrant, and has been for a very long time. The reason the U.S. continues to let in so many immigrants is because of business interests, which have always held considerable political power. And the reason the U.S. has such diversity of immigrants is because of the peculiarity of our laws (e.g. by promoting so-called chain migration, a term Trump has turned into a pejorative), which have largely stayed the same because of inertia and political deadlock, but as you pointed out this is likely to change soon. Also, the U.S. is no longer unique in terms of its large foreign born population. The U.K., for example, has roughly the same percentage. Brexit is no coincidence. Ditto for Germany. Though AFAIU German anti-immigration sentiment is mostly focused on immigrants from outside the E.U. (e.g. Turkey), whereas a large part of the sentiment in the U.K. is focused on Eastern European immigrants. Thus Angela Merkel has managed to placate voters by tacitly supporting harsher restrictions at the E.U. border, the short-lived Syrian influx notwithstanding. Brexit was driven in part by, e.g., people being pissed at low-wage Polish migrants. I'll agree that the U.S. isn't worse than other countries. And I suppose our history as being a melting pot relatively unique unto the world is still worth something. (Though many parts of Latin America also saw similar migration flows at the turn of the 18th century. There are still German speaking towns in Brazil, Welsh speaking towns in Argentina, and a curious number of ethnic Japanese all over South America.) But we don't really stand out anymore one way or the other.
zed88 6y ago
Anti-Immigrant sentiment is rife here in New Zealand as well. In particular against Asians. If your skin is white, you blend easy here.
- jeofken 6y ago
  Is it a surprise that most people when free to decide wish to segregate?

mi_lk 6y ago

> regularly deport them for what reasons?

aksss 6y ago
Crime will do it
gnopgnip 6y ago
In many countries work visas only last for a limited number of years, if you don't get married, you need to leave or you will be deported.

markdown 6y ago

> Americans accept immigrants into their Armed Forces but regularly deport them even after they’ve served and been in combat. The United Kingdom as well: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/05/where-is-the-fairness-fijis-british-army-veterans-fight-for-a-life-in-uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/05/where-is-the-f...

koreanguy 6y ago
unfortunately, sadly i think many of them should have been given right of stay in the country, if they served the nation. that is a extremely heavy deadly job. returning them back home would be unwise .

ulfw 6y ago

Speaking of which... how will Covid vaccinations for the general public happen in America? Do you have to show ID? Passport? Proof citizenship? What about undocumented immigrants? They're human beings and can infect everyone else too. Has anyone thought of them?

seanmcdirmid 6y ago
If it’s anything like COVID tests, they will ask for insurance and if you don’t have that they’ll just give you your doses for free. Might depend on the state, however.

HuwytNashi_006 6y ago

If we're talking service, not membership, wouldn't the onus be on Israel in this case?

HeavenFox 6y ago

...whereas three years of service in French Foreign Legion allows you to apply for citizenship, or immediately after you are wounded in battle ("French by spilled blood")

roel_v 6y ago
Serving in the Foreign Legion is not like 'being in the military' in other places...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- touisteur 6y ago
  Indeed no... Légion étrangère is very often front-line, opex, desert, jungle... A very special and strange military corps that meddled with politics in the 1960s... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961 And nowadays they select at the entrance.

bruceb 6y ago

This isn't really true. There have been a few isolated cases of former members of the armed services who were convicted of a felony being deported. I don't agree with that happening either but to say they are regularly deported just isn't true. If you serve in the armed forces and don't commit crimes, and apply for citizenship you will most likely get it. Also the US accepts alot more immigrants than Japan, China, and many other countries. Most of the complaints about immigration come down to this, there is much more demand than "supply".

rtpg 6y ago
I can't vouch for everything about Japan's immigration policy, nor do I have first-hand experience with the US system. But despite Japan intaking a lot less, people who meet the "baseline requirements" (basically, college degree) can be consistently assured that they can get a work visa and not get arbitrarily kicked out of the country. Similarly, even the smallest companies (like miniscule, 5-people startups) are able to get visas for people who meet the college degree requirement with basically no issue. Also, they don't tie your work visa to your employer[1], so you don't get indentured servitude or the threat of getting kicked out of the country after being fired. Meanwhile I have heard countless horror stories from many people trying to do even the most basic stuff when it comes to immigration in the US. And it sure sounds like you are, at a basic level, treated like a suspicious person who might be a criminal. You can say "oh look at the numbers" but I have heard roughly zero positive things about the American immigration experience. And (what I think is the most important thing), I have heard many stories about the opacity and randomness of the American bureaucracy. And, you know what? Most countries _don't_ just kick someone out on the first crime they commit. And they don't try to hold it over the head of the person. It's possible to have an immigration system that doesn't treat the people coming in as indentured servants. [1] HSFP visa non-excepting, but if you can get HSFP you can get a standard working visa
- bruceb 6y ago
  If the US had Japan's policy you would hear a lot more complaints as relatively few people would be allowed in. Japan has less than 3m immigrants TOTAL. The US takes in about 1 million a Year. "most countries _don't_ just kick someone out on the first crime they commit." Neither does the US. Most of the time the crimes that lead to deportation are felonies. Why is the US obligated to keep non citizens who commit serious crimes? The US is under no obligation to take anyone. The system certainly isn't perfect, warrants criticize. But some of the complaints are ridiculous and come down to again way more demand than supply. (Update, I don't agree with you, but I hope HNers will not downvote you as a few are)

neither_color 6y ago

The US has the largest immigrant population in the world and one of the highest immigration rates among developed countries. I resent how casually blatantly false anti-US comments like this get voted up without any data to back them up, almost like it's a fad to talk-down America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat...

conanbatt 6y ago
That is in spite of immigration policy, not because of it.
- neither_color 6y ago
  Which policy? The latest H1-B bill which lifts per-country caps passed unanimously in the senate and with a strong majority in the house. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1044 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1044 Certainly different people will have different opinions on what the "right" number of immigrants is but this is not an anti-immigrant country.
  - wahern 6y ago
    That's because it's designed to let in more rich Asians and less poor Latin Americans and Africans. In terms of popular political support I would say that the United States is very anti-immigrant, and has been for a very long time. The reason the U.S. continues to let in so many immigrants is because of business interests, which have always held considerable political power. And the reason the U.S. has such diversity of immigrants is because of the peculiarity of our laws (e.g. by promoting so-called chain migration, a term Trump has turned into a pejorative), which have largely stayed the same because of inertia and political deadlock, but as you pointed out this is likely to change soon. Also, the U.S. is no longer unique in terms of its large foreign born population. The U.K., for example, has roughly the same percentage. Brexit is no coincidence. Ditto for Germany. Though AFAIU German anti-immigration sentiment is mostly focused on immigrants from outside the E.U. (e.g. Turkey), whereas a large part of the sentiment in the U.K. is focused on Eastern European immigrants. Thus Angela Merkel has managed to placate voters by tacitly supporting harsher restrictions at the E.U. border, the short-lived Syrian influx notwithstanding. Brexit was driven in part by, e.g., people being pissed at low-wage Polish migrants. I'll agree that the U.S. isn't worse than other countries. And I suppose our history as being a melting pot relatively unique unto the world is still worth something. (Though many parts of Latin America also saw similar migration flows at the turn of the 18th century. There are still German speaking towns in Brazil, Welsh speaking towns in Argentina, and a curious number of ethnic Japanese all over South America.) But we don't really stand out anymore one way or the other.

zed88 6y ago

Anti-Immigrant sentiment is rife here in New Zealand as well. In particular against Asians. If your skin is white, you blend easy here.

jeofken 6y ago
Is it a surprise that most people when free to decide wish to segregate?