11 ms·

Google/Fitbit will monetise health data and harm consumers [pdf]

303 points by partingshots 6y ago

desireco42 6y ago
Maybe, but since we don't have currently good way to use our health data for health purposes, this might be good development. They will provide a way to sync which others will emulate and it will be one standard. Should Google and others be regulated, oh yeah.
- ch4s3 6y ago
  Fitbit, and the like generally don't provide much data that's useful in a healthcare setting. The sensors aren't great, and people don't necessarily wear them consistently.In broad strokes they can tell you/your doctor if you are generally active. However, you could probably determine that yourself. The heart rate monitoring is good enough for monitoring the intensity of your own exercise but not good enough for anything diagnostic. Now you can but sensors and smart phone connectable heart rate and bp monitors that are medically useful, but they're not going to fit on your wrist.
  - breck 6y ago
    Computers, and the like generally don't provide much functionality that's useful... -ch4s3 in 1950
    - ch4s3 6y ago
      That's not at all what I'm saying. My point is that fitbit and similar wrist mounted consumer devices aren't currently useful for real health purposes. I was responding to: > Maybe, but since we don't have currently good way to use our health data for health purposes My criticism is that the is NO WAY you could use this data, because the data is junk. I even pointed out that there are larger devices that do work. But there are real physical limitations in trying to measure heart rate through the wrist by bouncing light off of the veins. Measuring blood flow through tissue downstream from the heart is an indirect measurement at best. Skin, sweat, tissue composition, and motion all add confounding variable that are hard to correct for in software. The data you do get from the device is do you regularly exercise while wearing the device or not.
      - breck 6y ago
        I won't disagree that the data could be better. It can always be better. But it gets better. With every. single. update. You're just wrong about no ways to use this data. I've personally dramatically improved my health via wearables over the past 7 years. A close friend with a heart condition has perhaps had his life saved by these things. Check out the FitBit forums or subreddits. When you have a lot of data with high dimensionality and apply modern ML/DL methods you can discover connections that just aren't visible with fewer dimensions. Healthcare is going to have its "What Just Happened?" moment sometime in the late 2020's.(https://moalquraishi.wordpress.com/2018/12/09/alphafold-casp13-what-just-happened/ https://moalquraishi.wordpress.com/2018/12/09/alphafold-casp...)
        ch4s3 6y ago
        Color me skeptical, but I've read a mountain on research on this very topic, and know some people on the medical side of this space and it just doesn't seem like the quality of the data is there for medical use. You could maybe do something with ML/DL on resting heart rate measurements for some kinds of people (thin but not too thin, and with lighter skin). I'm totally willing to believe that cool things are happening in med-tech, but I don't believe optical blood flow sensors mounted in a watch band are one of those things. If someone produces some real research where they get meaningful diagnostic info out of these devices, then I'm open to changing my mind.
  - desireco42 6y ago
    That is a very limiting belief on your end :)
    - ch4s3 6y ago
      Only because optical heart rate sensors aren't very accurate under many real world conditions that have nothing to do with the quality of the sensors, other hardware, or the software. There's a good long history of medical research here, and not a lot of reason to believe that someone is going to develop a medically useful wrist strap based optical sensor.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    Some of the sensors are reasonably useful for "perhaps you should see a doctor" or at least "explaining what the sensor saw when this happened to a doctor". The SpO2 sensor, which never worked on my Fitbit anyways, is particularly helpful to keep an eye on if you have COVID, as it so happens. In my case, I found sometimes I'd start feeling really odd when I hadn't eaten much lately, and I discovered due to my Fitbit that my heart rate was spiking even while I was pretty much sedentary during those times. When my best description of the event prior was "feeling weird", having that info from my Fitbit is pretty nice if I want to explain to a doctor what's going on. Is the sensor extremely precise on those figures? No. Is the general trend of being hooked up to them both during baseline living and during an unexpected medical event pretty useful? Absolutely.
    - ch4s3 6y ago
      I don't disagree broadly, but there's a big difference between something that give's you the user a heads up and something that is backed by evidence and is medically useful. Chest strap heart rate monitors that cyclists use produce useful data, but obviously you aren't going to strap one on every day.
      - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
        I mean, the margin of error is definitely larger, but I wouldn't say you can't call Fitbit data "evidence". And again, I would definitely say it's medically useful to have a general daily baseline to compare against. If my Fitbit says I'm usually here and then all of a sudden, I am here, the sensor may not be super precise, but it's absolutely evidence that the measured value has changed.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        ch4s3 6y ago
        I mean "evidence" as in evidence based medicine. Which is to say, there isn't research showing that these devices are useful in a clinical setting which is my only claim. Plenty of people find them highly useful for their own individual reasons, and I wouldn't claim otherwise.
  - drivebycomment 6y ago
    > Fitbit, and the like generally don't provide much data that's useful in a healthcare setting. They are not meant to. > people don't necessarily wear them consistently What are you basing this on ? Anecdotally, I and a few of my friends who are fully into Fitbit are wearing them dutifully. I was also somewhat skeptical but I figured it's not that much money to try. It completely changed my view on Fibit after trying it, and I've been very consistently wearing it. > However, you could probably determine that yourself. Not really. There's nothing like honest data and clear metrics to show how behind someone is. It also very successfully turned "fitness" into a game for me - clear, achievable goals and a way of tracking it easily did wonders to keep me motivated. > The heart rate monitoring is good enough for monitoring the intensity of your own exercise but not good enough for anything diagnostic. It's not meant to be a short-term diagnostics tool, and if you expect that, I think your expectation is completely misplaced. But it very clearly would be a useful data for the long-term baseline. They say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - Fitbit is doing enough "nudge" to improve that prevention department for me, for a dirt cheap price. It's been an extremely useful and valuable tool and a service for me. I've never consistently tracked my weight, nor exercised consistently - and I have no doubt majority of people fall into a similar bucket. Not everyone would benefit as much, but clearly there's sizable population that would, and Fitbit, for that price, is doing a lot more to keep me motivated and exercise than gym memberships or private trainer or group exercise classes or most such things I've tried in the past. I actually wish Fitbit would allow us to share the exercise records with my primary care doctor - that would keep me even more honest, and would provide better insights and long-term trend data for my doctor.
    - ch4s3 6y ago
      > They are not meant to. I know, that's my whole point. They aren't medical devices and aren't useful for medicine/healthcare beyond showing that you are or are not active. > What are you basing this on ? Anecdotally, I and a few of my friends who are fully into Fitbit are wearing them dutifully Optical blood flow sensors need to be held flat against your skin with minimal movement up and down the arm. That's just hard to do. > It's not meant to be a short-term diagnostics tool Again, that's exactly what I was saying. My only claim was that the "health" data they produce isn't useful for healthcare in a clinical setting. This is the reason health record systems don't import that data. I worked in the medical record space for quite a bit of time, and never met a doctor that wanted this kind of data in a medical record.
shadowgovt 6y ago
It's a little sus that CEPR titles this doc as a factual declaration when the first sentence is "The European Commission (alongside other regulators) is conducting an in-depth investigation of the Google/Fitbit deal." It calls into question the objectivity of the investigation when the announcement of the investigation is a statement of a conclusion they the EC is, one assumes, actively investigating.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  I don't think "Google/Fitbit will monetise health data" requires the in-depth investigation to conclude.
  - variaga 6y ago
    There needs to be some corollary of the "extrodinary claims require extraordinary evidence" phrase for ordinary claims. I feel like I can safely assume things like "a for-profit corporation will monetize resources available to it" without any specific evidence about the particular corporation or asset.
    - fastball 6y ago
      Doesn't seem like a corollary. The corollary would require ordinary evidence, and you're saying you're happy to not have any.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        There's plenty of ordinary evidence that corporations monetize data.
        gowld 6y ago
        There's plenty of ordinary evidence that corporations decline to monetize some data. Example: https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/143465 https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/143465 "Advertisers can’t use personal hardship categories to target ads to users or to promote advertisers’ products or services. See below for specific examples of what we don't allow." "Examples: Treatments for chronic health conditions like diabetes or arthritis, treatments for sexually transmitted diseases, counseling services for mental health issues like depression or anxiety, medical devices for sleep apnea like CPAP machines, over-the-counter medications for yeast infections, information about how to support your autistic child"
nixass 6y ago
Color me shocked
breck 6y ago
The authors of this article are complete phonies. The people at FitBit have been busting their ass for over a decade to revolutionize healthcare and medicine. They deserve the Nobel Prize for medicine. The people who wrote this article have done shit to help. Where was this "CEPR" group when FITB stock was being shorted and Apple was coming for their throat? I get that Google is doing lots of bad things now. But the one, and only thing you should be looking at if you actually care about that is #AbolishingImaginaryProperty laws. Everything else is either just done for show or complete ignorance. I hate to see FitBit having to deal with this crap. They are literally putting a doctor on everyone's wrist (and if you don't get why that is the case, you should go get one and do your research). It's going to completely change the world. If these people are truly concerned, great—get their governments to buy FitBit for $10B, don't sacrifice our health for your egos.
- NationalPark 6y ago
  Would I be wrong in guessing you are a Fitbit shareholder who is unhappy they decided to sell to Google?
  - breck 6y ago
    I was a shareholder (sold when they got acquired for ~$7), as well as GARMIN and APPLE (I'm obviously long on the whole wearable space as it is the future of healthcare). I took a bath on FitBit (I kept buying buying buying and so maybe ended up cost averaging in at $9 or $10), but I'd do it again in a heart beat. They are pioneering future medicine. In 50 years people are going to look at medicine pre wearables like we look at healthcare in the 1800's. I was very happy FitBit sold to Google because I want them to survive, and unfortunately in this current tech regime the only way to do that is join one of the big players. It just makes me sick when people who are partly responsible for the current anti-competitive marketplace make phony statements pointing the blame at companies like Goog, and heroes like FitBit are caught in the middle.
    - toxik 6y ago
      Let us distinguish the statement “wearables will impact healthcare” from “FitBit puts a doctor on your wrist”.
greesil 6y ago
"capable of harming consumers through personalisation of advertising and increasingly also by enabling targeted product offerings" So this is going to be harmful because some health insurance company is only going to offer ads to people that walk > 10K steps a day? They aren't showing any harm to consumers at present, just that sometime in the future, maybe, things could be harmful.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Sure. It's like the part in the movie when the ax murderer invites the young coed into the dungeon-like basement. It hasn't happened yet, but you know how it's gonna go.
  - greesil 6y ago
    Selling ads is not axe-murderering. But yeah they're gonna sell ads. It's what they do. I'm just hard pressed to explain how serving ads by fitness condition is going to harm the consumer, or why you can't just write a law that says to not do that. I'm serious though, what's the most nefarious thing you could do with that? My imagination is unimaginative.
    - momokoko 6y ago
      We’ve seen Facebook employment ads already used to specifically target younger people. It’s more about excluding people from advertising as opposed to including. If you think of it from that angle it won’t take too much imagination to see the issues that may arise.
      - greesil 6y ago
        Or deny housing to minorities, or radicalize people prone to extremism, etc. Yeah that's one of the downsides of hyper targeted advertising. Should the acquisition be blocked because it allows better targeting?
    - peteradio 6y ago
PerilousD 6y ago
Very few people care about privacy which is great for OSINT practitioners. This Internet golden-age has made fox/sheeple tracking SO much easier, almost too much data available. That said MY Fitbit went straight into the garbage when Google bought them and since I didn't particularly trust Fitbit either when I bought the device, all Fitbit had on me for ID was a throw-away email and equally throw-away name.
- titzer 6y ago
  I applaud you, except the garbage part. Please dispose of electronic devices responsibly. /s
  - iakov 6y ago
    No /s needed. Let's not let our mad consumerism destroy the planet, especially if it costs us literally nothing to dispose of garbage in a way that allows it to be recycled.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- earwaxauditor 6y ago
  /wake up, sheeple
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
This will do great harm in markets where there are no protection for health data. Health insurers in my country(India) are already discriminatory, top health insurers here denied me health insurance because I disclosed my disabilities[1] despite Govt. guidelines against blanket denial of policies for the disabled. This is pretty much the case for anyone who discloses their disability truthfully here[2][3]. This is because they're not keeping in sync with the progress in medical science, why should my orthopedic troubles be a risk factor for providing insurance to cover COVID-19 treatment? Now with say health data from devices, they'll likely find more statistical data to deny coverage (with some obscure reason) or increase premium to many even if the applicant isn't sick and thereby denying a chance of health insurance coverage if they really get sick. Especially when an unqualified underwriter decides whether I should get a health insurance or not. [1]https://abishekmuthian.com/insurers-are-putting-the-lives-of-sick-and-disabled-at-risk-during-covid-19-pandemic/ https://abishekmuthian.com/insurers-are-putting-the-lives-of... [2]https://www.indiaspend.com/covid-19-insurers-are-denying-policies-to-disabled-despite-govt-strictures/ https://www.indiaspend.com/covid-19-insurers-are-denying-pol... [3]https://twitter.com/pavinann/status/1339952358235631625 https://twitter.com/pavinann/status/1339952358235631625
- Karishma1234 6y ago
  > why should my orthopedic troubles be a risk factor for providing insurance to cover COVID-19 treatment? I think Google/Fitbit might actually end up benefiting someone like you. If you have a pre-existing condition and if insurance company is denying your normal insurance it tells me that the insurance market in India is highly inefficient. This like like leaving money on the table and sounds very stupid in the insurance company's part. What I feel is happening is that insurance is often a side product for some companies which they accomplish as best effort. Google/Fitbit might actually help insurance companies gain better data and offer far more optimized products even they themselves do not have that capability. Of course individual rights to privacy etc. should be protected and government has a very legitimate role to play here. But monetization of health data would be beneficial to consumers.
- greesil 6y ago
  I'm going to write something unpopular, but your data is probably safer from sale to insurers with Google than with a pre-acquisition Fitbit. Google already has a fantastic revenue stream, and only has downsides from doing something "evil" for piddling revenue gain. In an alternate timeline, Fitbit could go out of business next year and then be up for sale. Also, I think Fitbit already makes money this way
hnrodey 6y ago
I deleted my FitBit account on the day the Google acquisition was announced. Nice try, Google.
- ffhhj 6y ago
  Do they have backups?
  - hnrodey 6y ago
    Probably? At some point in the process comes acceptance. Doing something was better than doing nothing.
- mechnesium 6y ago
  Just deleted mine, too. Thanks for the idea! Very shady move on behalf of Google. Seems like the acquisition of Fitbit was done with this intention. Idle dollars, ripe for picking.
- csours 6y ago
  Do you still use a fitness tracker?
  - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
    I wrote my own. It is web based so no need for an App Store gatekeeper.
  - hnrodey 6y ago
    AppleWatch, if that counts. Also, the heart rate monitor from MyZone (https://www.myzone.org/ https://www.myzone.org/) because it connects to my Assault Fitness AirRunner and I get to see my real time heart rate data on the control unit.
BlueTemplar 6y ago
Oh come on ! I was already pissed that Fitbit bought Pebble, crippled the Pebbles - (yes, I know, there's an unofficial app store, some day I might even get around to looking into it) - and pushed a "fitness" data-gathering update that I didn't ask nor cared for - and now you're saying that this data is even going to be sent to Google?! (Sigh, this is WhatsApp contacts => Facebook all over again...)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
meowzero 6y ago
This is troubling. I've been a fitbit user for a few years. I've contemplated hard between an Apple Watch and Fitbit. I decided to stay with the Fitbit for a few reasons: * Longer Battery Life * Sleep Tracking * Smaller device on wrist with the Charge 4 vs Apple Watch. Can people suggest alternatives to Fitbit? My favorite feature is the sleep tracking (but who knows how accurate it is). Does Garmin or Apple have comparable features to Fitbit, especially with sleep and battery life?
- novok 6y ago
  Apple has native sleep tracking now and I've been using it myself for years. I would like to warn you that you shouldn't trust the waterproofing although, because they use glue to seal the watch screen against the gasket, and temperature variations can eventually loosen that glue, as I found out to a broken series 3 watch one day after swimming in a heated swimming pool and then going skiing the next day. Apple health is one of the few things they actually end to end encrypt[0], so there is no data to sell currently. [0] They should E2EE everything on icloud, including imessage backups, which they don't, but I suspect there is some covert US govt pressure stopping them from doing so. https://bgr.com/2020/01/21/iphone-icloud-backup-isnt-fully-encrypted-and-its-the-fbis-fault/ https://bgr.com/2020/01/21/iphone-icloud-backup-isnt-fully-e...
- nonbirithm 6y ago
  I use a Misfit Shine with Beeminder to track an exercise habit. It can track steps walked and sleep schedules. Only compromise is that you have to manually sync by holding it up to your phone.
- t-writescode 6y ago
  The way I've dealt with Apple Watch battery life is to treat it like it has a low battery life. Almost all notifications are disabled. The screen turns off when I'm not looking at it, and so on. I get around 2 days out of it - easily a day and a half, but that allows me to charge it when I feel like it, usually when I'm taking a shower. I own a 6. I've got most of the health tracking stuff turned on, since that's what I bought it for.
- 6y ago
yummytummy 6y ago
Google is an ad company. They will use this to measure how you respond to ads. It’s disgusting.
moralsupply 6y ago
I've just deleted my Fitbit account (which didn't have personal information anyway). I won't be buying Fitbit products ever again.
vanous 6y ago
Obligatory reminder: Gadgetbridge [1] is an Android mobile application without network permission, acting as a companion for your smart weareables. Your data about you stays yours. Your conversations forwarded as notifications aren't going anywhere else. [1] Blog: https://blog.freeyourgadget.org/ https://blog.freeyourgadget.org/ Homepage: http://gadgetbridge.org http://gadgetbridge.org / Codeberg repo: https://codeberg.org/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge https://codeberg.org/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge
prdonahue 6y ago
Google is the ultimate arbitrager of data. If you have data they can make better (creepier) use of, they'll pay a premium.
jdeibele 6y ago
I'm trying to centralize on Apple Health as one place for my info. Fitbit doesn't play well with Apple Health, presumably because they saw the Apple Watch as a competitor. I tried various apps that would "fix" syncing data but they would stop working. https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Fitbit-com-Dashboard/Syncing-with-Apple-s-Health-App/td-p/3059925 https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Fitbit-com-Dashboard/Syncing... from 2018 has a thread on this but there are lots out there. I bought a Garmin Instinct based on favorable mentions here a couple of weeks ago and I'm pretty happy with it. Garmin seems to be realistic about not competing with Apple directly. I'm not excited about Garmin having any more info than they have to after they were hacked. https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21353842/garmin-ransomware-attack-wearables-wastedlocker-evil-corp https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21353842/garmin-ransomware...
LdSGSgvupDV 6y ago
I'm interested at is it possible to redirect the information sent by fitbit to self-hosted server?

303 points by partingshots 6y ago

Maybe, but since we don't have currently good way to use our health data for health purposes, this might be good development. They will provide a way to sync which others will emulate and it will be one standard. Should Google and others be regulated, oh yeah.

ch4s3 6y ago
Fitbit, and the like generally don't provide much data that's useful in a healthcare setting. The sensors aren't great, and people don't necessarily wear them consistently.In broad strokes they can tell you/your doctor if you are generally active. However, you could probably determine that yourself. The heart rate monitoring is good enough for monitoring the intensity of your own exercise but not good enough for anything diagnostic. Now you can but sensors and smart phone connectable heart rate and bp monitors that are medically useful, but they're not going to fit on your wrist.
- breck 6y ago
  Computers, and the like generally don't provide much functionality that's useful... -ch4s3 in 1950
  - ch4s3 6y ago
    That's not at all what I'm saying. My point is that fitbit and similar wrist mounted consumer devices aren't currently useful for real health purposes. I was responding to: > Maybe, but since we don't have currently good way to use our health data for health purposes My criticism is that the is NO WAY you could use this data, because the data is junk. I even pointed out that there are larger devices that do work. But there are real physical limitations in trying to measure heart rate through the wrist by bouncing light off of the veins. Measuring blood flow through tissue downstream from the heart is an indirect measurement at best. Skin, sweat, tissue composition, and motion all add confounding variable that are hard to correct for in software. The data you do get from the device is do you regularly exercise while wearing the device or not.
    - breck 6y ago
      I won't disagree that the data could be better. It can always be better. But it gets better. With every. single. update. You're just wrong about no ways to use this data. I've personally dramatically improved my health via wearables over the past 7 years. A close friend with a heart condition has perhaps had his life saved by these things. Check out the FitBit forums or subreddits. When you have a lot of data with high dimensionality and apply modern ML/DL methods you can discover connections that just aren't visible with fewer dimensions. Healthcare is going to have its "What Just Happened?" moment sometime in the late 2020's.(https://moalquraishi.wordpress.com/2018/12/09/alphafold-casp13-what-just-happened/ https://moalquraishi.wordpress.com/2018/12/09/alphafold-casp...)
      - ch4s3 6y ago
        Color me skeptical, but I've read a mountain on research on this very topic, and know some people on the medical side of this space and it just doesn't seem like the quality of the data is there for medical use. You could maybe do something with ML/DL on resting heart rate measurements for some kinds of people (thin but not too thin, and with lighter skin). I'm totally willing to believe that cool things are happening in med-tech, but I don't believe optical blood flow sensors mounted in a watch band are one of those things. If someone produces some real research where they get meaningful diagnostic info out of these devices, then I'm open to changing my mind.
- desireco42 6y ago
  That is a very limiting belief on your end :)
  - ch4s3 6y ago
    Only because optical heart rate sensors aren't very accurate under many real world conditions that have nothing to do with the quality of the sensors, other hardware, or the software. There's a good long history of medical research here, and not a lot of reason to believe that someone is going to develop a medically useful wrist strap based optical sensor.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Some of the sensors are reasonably useful for "perhaps you should see a doctor" or at least "explaining what the sensor saw when this happened to a doctor". The SpO2 sensor, which never worked on my Fitbit anyways, is particularly helpful to keep an eye on if you have COVID, as it so happens. In my case, I found sometimes I'd start feeling really odd when I hadn't eaten much lately, and I discovered due to my Fitbit that my heart rate was spiking even while I was pretty much sedentary during those times. When my best description of the event prior was "feeling weird", having that info from my Fitbit is pretty nice if I want to explain to a doctor what's going on. Is the sensor extremely precise on those figures? No. Is the general trend of being hooked up to them both during baseline living and during an unexpected medical event pretty useful? Absolutely.
  - ch4s3 6y ago
    I don't disagree broadly, but there's a big difference between something that give's you the user a heads up and something that is backed by evidence and is medically useful. Chest strap heart rate monitors that cyclists use produce useful data, but obviously you aren't going to strap one on every day.
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      I mean, the margin of error is definitely larger, but I wouldn't say you can't call Fitbit data "evidence". And again, I would definitely say it's medically useful to have a general daily baseline to compare against. If my Fitbit says I'm usually here and then all of a sudden, I am here, the sensor may not be super precise, but it's absolutely evidence that the measured value has changed.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - ch4s3 6y ago
        I mean "evidence" as in evidence based medicine. Which is to say, there isn't research showing that these devices are useful in a clinical setting which is my only claim. Plenty of people find them highly useful for their own individual reasons, and I wouldn't claim otherwise.
- drivebycomment 6y ago
  > Fitbit, and the like generally don't provide much data that's useful in a healthcare setting. They are not meant to. > people don't necessarily wear them consistently What are you basing this on ? Anecdotally, I and a few of my friends who are fully into Fitbit are wearing them dutifully. I was also somewhat skeptical but I figured it's not that much money to try. It completely changed my view on Fibit after trying it, and I've been very consistently wearing it. > However, you could probably determine that yourself. Not really. There's nothing like honest data and clear metrics to show how behind someone is. It also very successfully turned "fitness" into a game for me - clear, achievable goals and a way of tracking it easily did wonders to keep me motivated. > The heart rate monitoring is good enough for monitoring the intensity of your own exercise but not good enough for anything diagnostic. It's not meant to be a short-term diagnostics tool, and if you expect that, I think your expectation is completely misplaced. But it very clearly would be a useful data for the long-term baseline. They say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - Fitbit is doing enough "nudge" to improve that prevention department for me, for a dirt cheap price. It's been an extremely useful and valuable tool and a service for me. I've never consistently tracked my weight, nor exercised consistently - and I have no doubt majority of people fall into a similar bucket. Not everyone would benefit as much, but clearly there's sizable population that would, and Fitbit, for that price, is doing a lot more to keep me motivated and exercise than gym memberships or private trainer or group exercise classes or most such things I've tried in the past. I actually wish Fitbit would allow us to share the exercise records with my primary care doctor - that would keep me even more honest, and would provide better insights and long-term trend data for my doctor.
  - ch4s3 6y ago
    > They are not meant to. I know, that's my whole point. They aren't medical devices and aren't useful for medicine/healthcare beyond showing that you are or are not active. > What are you basing this on ? Anecdotally, I and a few of my friends who are fully into Fitbit are wearing them dutifully Optical blood flow sensors need to be held flat against your skin with minimal movement up and down the arm. That's just hard to do. > It's not meant to be a short-term diagnostics tool Again, that's exactly what I was saying. My only claim was that the "health" data they produce isn't useful for healthcare in a clinical setting. This is the reason health record systems don't import that data. I worked in the medical record space for quite a bit of time, and never met a doctor that wanted this kind of data in a medical record.

shadowgovt 6y ago

It's a little sus that CEPR titles this doc as a factual declaration when the first sentence is "The European Commission (alongside other regulators) is conducting an in-depth investigation of the Google/Fitbit deal." It calls into question the objectivity of the investigation when the announcement of the investigation is a statement of a conclusion they the EC is, one assumes, actively investigating.

ceejayoz 6y ago
I don't think "Google/Fitbit will monetise health data" requires the in-depth investigation to conclude.
- variaga 6y ago
  There needs to be some corollary of the "extrodinary claims require extraordinary evidence" phrase for ordinary claims. I feel like I can safely assume things like "a for-profit corporation will monetize resources available to it" without any specific evidence about the particular corporation or asset.
  - fastball 6y ago
    Doesn't seem like a corollary. The corollary would require ordinary evidence, and you're saying you're happy to not have any.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      There's plenty of ordinary evidence that corporations monetize data.
      - gowld 6y ago
        There's plenty of ordinary evidence that corporations decline to monetize some data. Example: https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/143465 https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/143465 "Advertisers can’t use personal hardship categories to target ads to users or to promote advertisers’ products or services. See below for specific examples of what we don't allow." "Examples: Treatments for chronic health conditions like diabetes or arthritis, treatments for sexually transmitted diseases, counseling services for mental health issues like depression or anxiety, medical devices for sleep apnea like CPAP machines, over-the-counter medications for yeast infections, information about how to support your autistic child"

nixass 6y ago

Color me shocked

breck 6y ago

The authors of this article are complete phonies. The people at FitBit have been busting their ass for over a decade to revolutionize healthcare and medicine. They deserve the Nobel Prize for medicine. The people who wrote this article have done shit to help. Where was this "CEPR" group when FITB stock was being shorted and Apple was coming for their throat? I get that Google is doing lots of bad things now. But the one, and only thing you should be looking at if you actually care about that is #AbolishingImaginaryProperty laws. Everything else is either just done for show or complete ignorance. I hate to see FitBit having to deal with this crap. They are literally putting a doctor on everyone's wrist (and if you don't get why that is the case, you should go get one and do your research). It's going to completely change the world. If these people are truly concerned, great—get their governments to buy FitBit for $10B, don't sacrifice our health for your egos.

NationalPark 6y ago
Would I be wrong in guessing you are a Fitbit shareholder who is unhappy they decided to sell to Google?
- breck 6y ago
  I was a shareholder (sold when they got acquired for ~$7), as well as GARMIN and APPLE (I'm obviously long on the whole wearable space as it is the future of healthcare). I took a bath on FitBit (I kept buying buying buying and so maybe ended up cost averaging in at $9 or $10), but I'd do it again in a heart beat. They are pioneering future medicine. In 50 years people are going to look at medicine pre wearables like we look at healthcare in the 1800's. I was very happy FitBit sold to Google because I want them to survive, and unfortunately in this current tech regime the only way to do that is join one of the big players. It just makes me sick when people who are partly responsible for the current anti-competitive marketplace make phony statements pointing the blame at companies like Goog, and heroes like FitBit are caught in the middle.
  - toxik 6y ago
    Let us distinguish the statement “wearables will impact healthcare” from “FitBit puts a doctor on your wrist”.

greesil 6y ago

"capable of harming consumers through personalisation of advertising and increasingly also by enabling targeted product offerings" So this is going to be harmful because some health insurance company is only going to offer ads to people that walk > 10K steps a day? They aren't showing any harm to consumers at present, just that sometime in the future, maybe, things could be harmful.

ceejayoz 6y ago
Sure. It's like the part in the movie when the ax murderer invites the young coed into the dungeon-like basement. It hasn't happened yet, but you know how it's gonna go.
- greesil 6y ago
  Selling ads is not axe-murderering. But yeah they're gonna sell ads. It's what they do. I'm just hard pressed to explain how serving ads by fitness condition is going to harm the consumer, or why you can't just write a law that says to not do that. I'm serious though, what's the most nefarious thing you could do with that? My imagination is unimaginative.
  - momokoko 6y ago
    We’ve seen Facebook employment ads already used to specifically target younger people. It’s more about excluding people from advertising as opposed to including. If you think of it from that angle it won’t take too much imagination to see the issues that may arise.
    - greesil 6y ago
      Or deny housing to minorities, or radicalize people prone to extremism, etc. Yeah that's one of the downsides of hyper targeted advertising. Should the acquisition be blocked because it allows better targeting?
  - peteradio 6y ago

PerilousD 6y ago

Very few people care about privacy which is great for OSINT practitioners. This Internet golden-age has made fox/sheeple tracking SO much easier, almost too much data available. That said MY Fitbit went straight into the garbage when Google bought them and since I didn't particularly trust Fitbit either when I bought the device, all Fitbit had on me for ID was a throw-away email and equally throw-away name.

titzer 6y ago
I applaud you, except the garbage part. Please dispose of electronic devices responsibly. /s
- iakov 6y ago
  No /s needed. Let's not let our mad consumerism destroy the planet, especially if it costs us literally nothing to dispose of garbage in a way that allows it to be recycled.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
earwaxauditor 6y ago
/wake up, sheeple

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

This will do great harm in markets where there are no protection for health data. Health insurers in my country(India) are already discriminatory, top health insurers here denied me health insurance because I disclosed my disabilities[1] despite Govt. guidelines against blanket denial of policies for the disabled. This is pretty much the case for anyone who discloses their disability truthfully here[2][3]. This is because they're not keeping in sync with the progress in medical science, why should my orthopedic troubles be a risk factor for providing insurance to cover COVID-19 treatment? Now with say health data from devices, they'll likely find more statistical data to deny coverage (with some obscure reason) or increase premium to many even if the applicant isn't sick and thereby denying a chance of health insurance coverage if they really get sick. Especially when an unqualified underwriter decides whether I should get a health insurance or not. [1]https://abishekmuthian.com/insurers-are-putting-the-lives-of-sick-and-disabled-at-risk-during-covid-19-pandemic/ https://abishekmuthian.com/insurers-are-putting-the-lives-of... [2]https://www.indiaspend.com/covid-19-insurers-are-denying-policies-to-disabled-despite-govt-strictures/ https://www.indiaspend.com/covid-19-insurers-are-denying-pol... [3]https://twitter.com/pavinann/status/1339952358235631625 https://twitter.com/pavinann/status/1339952358235631625

Karishma1234 6y ago
> why should my orthopedic troubles be a risk factor for providing insurance to cover COVID-19 treatment? I think Google/Fitbit might actually end up benefiting someone like you. If you have a pre-existing condition and if insurance company is denying your normal insurance it tells me that the insurance market in India is highly inefficient. This like like leaving money on the table and sounds very stupid in the insurance company's part. What I feel is happening is that insurance is often a side product for some companies which they accomplish as best effort. Google/Fitbit might actually help insurance companies gain better data and offer far more optimized products even they themselves do not have that capability. Of course individual rights to privacy etc. should be protected and government has a very legitimate role to play here. But monetization of health data would be beneficial to consumers.
greesil 6y ago
I'm going to write something unpopular, but your data is probably safer from sale to insurers with Google than with a pre-acquisition Fitbit. Google already has a fantastic revenue stream, and only has downsides from doing something "evil" for piddling revenue gain. In an alternate timeline, Fitbit could go out of business next year and then be up for sale. Also, I think Fitbit already makes money this way

hnrodey 6y ago

I deleted my FitBit account on the day the Google acquisition was announced. Nice try, Google.

ffhhj 6y ago
Do they have backups?
- hnrodey 6y ago
  Probably? At some point in the process comes acceptance. Doing something was better than doing nothing.
mechnesium 6y ago
Just deleted mine, too. Thanks for the idea! Very shady move on behalf of Google. Seems like the acquisition of Fitbit was done with this intention. Idle dollars, ripe for picking.
csours 6y ago
Do you still use a fitness tracker?
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  I wrote my own. It is web based so no need for an App Store gatekeeper.
- hnrodey 6y ago
  AppleWatch, if that counts. Also, the heart rate monitor from MyZone (https://www.myzone.org/ https://www.myzone.org/) because it connects to my Assault Fitness AirRunner and I get to see my real time heart rate data on the control unit.

BlueTemplar 6y ago

Oh come on ! I was already pissed that Fitbit bought Pebble, crippled the Pebbles - (yes, I know, there's an unofficial app store, some day I might even get around to looking into it) - and pushed a "fitness" data-gathering update that I didn't ask nor cared for - and now you're saying that this data is even going to be sent to Google?! (Sigh, this is WhatsApp contacts => Facebook all over again...)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

meowzero 6y ago

This is troubling. I've been a fitbit user for a few years. I've contemplated hard between an Apple Watch and Fitbit. I decided to stay with the Fitbit for a few reasons: * Longer Battery Life * Sleep Tracking * Smaller device on wrist with the Charge 4 vs Apple Watch. Can people suggest alternatives to Fitbit? My favorite feature is the sleep tracking (but who knows how accurate it is). Does Garmin or Apple have comparable features to Fitbit, especially with sleep and battery life?

novok 6y ago
Apple has native sleep tracking now and I've been using it myself for years. I would like to warn you that you shouldn't trust the waterproofing although, because they use glue to seal the watch screen against the gasket, and temperature variations can eventually loosen that glue, as I found out to a broken series 3 watch one day after swimming in a heated swimming pool and then going skiing the next day. Apple health is one of the few things they actually end to end encrypt[0], so there is no data to sell currently. [0] They should E2EE everything on icloud, including imessage backups, which they don't, but I suspect there is some covert US govt pressure stopping them from doing so. https://bgr.com/2020/01/21/iphone-icloud-backup-isnt-fully-encrypted-and-its-the-fbis-fault/ https://bgr.com/2020/01/21/iphone-icloud-backup-isnt-fully-e...
nonbirithm 6y ago
I use a Misfit Shine with Beeminder to track an exercise habit. It can track steps walked and sleep schedules. Only compromise is that you have to manually sync by holding it up to your phone.
t-writescode 6y ago
The way I've dealt with Apple Watch battery life is to treat it like it has a low battery life. Almost all notifications are disabled. The screen turns off when I'm not looking at it, and so on. I get around 2 days out of it - easily a day and a half, but that allows me to charge it when I feel like it, usually when I'm taking a shower. I own a 6. I've got most of the health tracking stuff turned on, since that's what I bought it for.
6y ago

yummytummy 6y ago

Google is an ad company. They will use this to measure how you respond to ads. It’s disgusting.

moralsupply 6y ago

I've just deleted my Fitbit account (which didn't have personal information anyway). I won't be buying Fitbit products ever again.

vanous 6y ago

Obligatory reminder: Gadgetbridge [1] is an Android mobile application without network permission, acting as a companion for your smart weareables. Your data about you stays yours. Your conversations forwarded as notifications aren't going anywhere else. [1] Blog: https://blog.freeyourgadget.org/ https://blog.freeyourgadget.org/ Homepage: http://gadgetbridge.org http://gadgetbridge.org / Codeberg repo: https://codeberg.org/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge https://codeberg.org/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge

prdonahue 6y ago

Google is the ultimate arbitrager of data. If you have data they can make better (creepier) use of, they'll pay a premium.

jdeibele 6y ago

I'm trying to centralize on Apple Health as one place for my info. Fitbit doesn't play well with Apple Health, presumably because they saw the Apple Watch as a competitor. I tried various apps that would "fix" syncing data but they would stop working. https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Fitbit-com-Dashboard/Syncing-with-Apple-s-Health-App/td-p/3059925 https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Fitbit-com-Dashboard/Syncing... from 2018 has a thread on this but there are lots out there. I bought a Garmin Instinct based on favorable mentions here a couple of weeks ago and I'm pretty happy with it. Garmin seems to be realistic about not competing with Apple directly. I'm not excited about Garmin having any more info than they have to after they were hacked. https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21353842/garmin-ransomware-attack-wearables-wastedlocker-evil-corp https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/4/21353842/garmin-ransomware...

LdSGSgvupDV 6y ago

I'm interested at is it possible to redirect the information sent by fitbit to self-hosted server?