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To be clear, this law prevents a company from charging you the rental fee even if you provide your own modem. They often do it under the guise of support - whi

To be clear, this law prevents a company from charging you the rental fee even if you provide your own modem. They often do it under the guise of support - while still admitting that they will not actually be able to provide support for models that are effectively not in their support database (because they only include the models they rent)!

nobody9999 6y ago
>They often do it under the guise of support - while still admitting that they will not actually be able to provide support for models that are effectively not in their support database (because they only include the models they rent)! Because I purchased a (supported) cable modem from a third party, my ISP won't provide services which are supposed to be included in my service. Their systems don't "recognize" my cable modem as existing on their network, so services that should be provided through my link are denied, claiming that my devices "aren't on the network." It's a huge scam. We need real competition in internet service providers.
- sitkack 6y ago
  File a formal complaint with your state attorney general.
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    >File a formal complaint with your state attorney general. Not a bad idea. But since I don't actually use the services I'm not getting, I'll likely just vote with my wallet instead.
    - edoceo 6y ago
      How could you vote with your wallet if there is not competition?
      - nobody9999 6y ago
        > How could you vote with your wallet if there is not competition? Actually, where I live there is competition. In fact, there is a second cable ISP in my apartment building. What's more, in addition to the cable ISP I have (Spectrum), I have a DSL link (Fusion) as well. I'd dump Spectrum (and tried to do so), but long term construction has blocked access to the access points for my building, so I'm stuck with them for now. Once the scaffolding blocking access is removed (it's been up for more than three years), Spectrum will be history for me. Even more, Verizon has been claiming they're trying to get access to implement FIOS in my building, but I think they're lying since they were able to site a cell tower on the roof a couple years ago. However, I live in the most densely populated city in the US. In most other places in the US there are, at most, two ISPs which provide service. Usually a cable provider and a DSL or Satellite provider. That's what I meant be a lack of competition. My apologies if I didn't make that clear.
0xffff2 6y ago
Who often does this? I've used my own modem on Cox, Comcast and Spectrum and none have charge me a fee for doing so.
- tw04 6y ago
  Frontier used to - they were sued in multiple states for it so I'm not sure if they've stopped everywhere already or not. Comcast does in some markets. AT&T fiber still does as far as I know.
  - interestica 6y ago
    What stops them from renaming this as a "network access fee" like with cell phone companies?
mmis1000 6y ago
Actually, that remote admin protocol ISP used TR-069 is a open protocol that was implemented on many router you can buy on the market. Even without remote control, there is nothing prevent them from just tell you the parameter you need to use(pppoe account or whatever). They can't support it is clearly a lie in most case.
- jcrawfordor 6y ago
  DOCSIS authentication is based on the HFC-side MAC address of the modem (part of the DOCSIS management protocol) and TR-069 is not required for any basic functionality - it is typically only used to manage functionality that it not common in third-party modems like an integrated WiFi AP. The more complicated matter is that firmware is typically delivered to the modem via the DOCSIS management protocol (lower level than TR-069) and so the ISP must have firmware available for all supported modems. This is the major factor that leads to compatibility lists. It is possible for the ISP to not manage firmware but most don't want to take the risk as a malfunctioning modem can take down a neighborhood in some cases.
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    > as a malfunctioning modem can take down a neighborhood The worst case scenario is a poorly secured cable modem gets infected by malware, then infects a bunch of other cable modems before switching to "take down the neighborhood" mode in which it transmits random garbage onto the cable. Since the cable is a shared resource, any misbehaving modem can prevent all others being able to connect. Perhaps just 1% vulnerable modems across the USA, and most people's home internet would be offline for weeks until whoever in every single neighborhood has an infected modem is identified and unplugged. Considering that, I can completely see why they wouldn't want you using a cheapo modem you got from Walmart.
    - martinald 6y ago
      Yeah I totally agree. One bad modem could take out/degrade internet for hundreds or thousands of customers connected to the same CMTS. It's actually surprising it doesn't happen more often. I don't see many (any?) people trying to connect their own GPON equipment to GPON fibre networks.

nobody9999 6y ago

>They often do it under the guise of support - while still admitting that they will not actually be able to provide support for models that are effectively not in their support database (because they only include the models they rent)! Because I purchased a (supported) cable modem from a third party, my ISP won't provide services which are supposed to be included in my service. Their systems don't "recognize" my cable modem as existing on their network, so services that should be provided through my link are denied, claiming that my devices "aren't on the network." It's a huge scam. We need real competition in internet service providers.

sitkack 6y ago
File a formal complaint with your state attorney general.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >File a formal complaint with your state attorney general. Not a bad idea. But since I don't actually use the services I'm not getting, I'll likely just vote with my wallet instead.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    How could you vote with your wallet if there is not competition?
    - nobody9999 6y ago
      > How could you vote with your wallet if there is not competition? Actually, where I live there is competition. In fact, there is a second cable ISP in my apartment building. What's more, in addition to the cable ISP I have (Spectrum), I have a DSL link (Fusion) as well. I'd dump Spectrum (and tried to do so), but long term construction has blocked access to the access points for my building, so I'm stuck with them for now. Once the scaffolding blocking access is removed (it's been up for more than three years), Spectrum will be history for me. Even more, Verizon has been claiming they're trying to get access to implement FIOS in my building, but I think they're lying since they were able to site a cell tower on the roof a couple years ago. However, I live in the most densely populated city in the US. In most other places in the US there are, at most, two ISPs which provide service. Usually a cable provider and a DSL or Satellite provider. That's what I meant be a lack of competition. My apologies if I didn't make that clear.

0xffff2 6y ago

Who often does this? I've used my own modem on Cox, Comcast and Spectrum and none have charge me a fee for doing so.

tw04 6y ago
Frontier used to - they were sued in multiple states for it so I'm not sure if they've stopped everywhere already or not. Comcast does in some markets. AT&T fiber still does as far as I know.
- interestica 6y ago
  What stops them from renaming this as a "network access fee" like with cell phone companies?

mmis1000 6y ago

Actually, that remote admin protocol ISP used TR-069 is a open protocol that was implemented on many router you can buy on the market. Even without remote control, there is nothing prevent them from just tell you the parameter you need to use(pppoe account or whatever). They can't support it is clearly a lie in most case.

jcrawfordor 6y ago
DOCSIS authentication is based on the HFC-side MAC address of the modem (part of the DOCSIS management protocol) and TR-069 is not required for any basic functionality - it is typically only used to manage functionality that it not common in third-party modems like an integrated WiFi AP. The more complicated matter is that firmware is typically delivered to the modem via the DOCSIS management protocol (lower level than TR-069) and so the ISP must have firmware available for all supported modems. This is the major factor that leads to compatibility lists. It is possible for the ISP to not manage firmware but most don't want to take the risk as a malfunctioning modem can take down a neighborhood in some cases.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  > as a malfunctioning modem can take down a neighborhood The worst case scenario is a poorly secured cable modem gets infected by malware, then infects a bunch of other cable modems before switching to "take down the neighborhood" mode in which it transmits random garbage onto the cable. Since the cable is a shared resource, any misbehaving modem can prevent all others being able to connect. Perhaps just 1% vulnerable modems across the USA, and most people's home internet would be offline for weeks until whoever in every single neighborhood has an infected modem is identified and unplugged. Considering that, I can completely see why they wouldn't want you using a cheapo modem you got from Walmart.
  - martinald 6y ago
    Yeah I totally agree. One bad modem could take out/degrade internet for hundreds or thousands of customers connected to the same CMTS. It's actually surprising it doesn't happen more often. I don't see many (any?) people trying to connect their own GPON equipment to GPON fibre networks.