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This quote has fascinated me for a long time. It seems that this is a skill that can be sharpened with deliberate practice. I went to a 10 day silent meditatio

This quote has fascinated me for a long time. It seems that this is a skill that can be sharpened with deliberate practice. I went to a 10 day silent meditation retreat (Vipasana) abs felt I got much more comfortable sitting by myself just observing my thoughts. The practice part was difficult, probably one of the hardest things I have ever done. 10 days of no talking/reading/writing, sitting in a room, observing your sensations, for hours on end, punctuated by 5 minute breaks. I felt the world temporarily go from HD to 4K after a couple of days. Anyways, this really made me reconsider my relationship with thoughts. I feel I can separate the sense of my being from my thoughts some times. This helps me with my anxiety.

animal_spirits 6y ago
This is why I think it is important to understand and practice meditation and prayer. Maybe most don't understand the psychology behind it but dedicating some time during your day to sit and think can be surprisingly beneficial.
joe_the_user 6y ago
I've done a variety of meditation techniques and certainly appreciate the benefits they may offer. One thing I'd say is that it's not always the techniques that feel the hardest that actually offer the most benefits. I believe Buddha's term "middle way" referred to a way that was in the middle between extreme privation/altered consciousness and the ordinary world. I think those interested in meditation techniques should consider this. And in terms of long term silent retreats, I had an old friend who's schizophrenic symptoms were intensified by retreats of that sort and meditation in general isn't a thing that's riskless - I recall the possibility of serious reactions to meditation and intensive meditation in particular has been documented in a number of articles. Which relates to claims about "All problems"
- jacksonlango 6y ago
  This is the opinion of an amateur, but I think this is where "skillful effort" comes into play. A retreat like that will be less strenuous if you already have a daily meditation practice. I wouldn't describe a weeklong meditation retreat as the "extreme" side of the Buddha's middle way. That would be more like starving yourself in asceticism. With the right practice/preparation (IE a few months of daily hour-long sits), I think a weeklong retreat would be beneficial and reasonable for most people. Of course, getting to the point of a daily practice is pretty challenging itself, but not too much more than the average workout routine in my opinion.
  - joe_the_user 6y ago
    Yeah, the point isn't that any given thing is hard but that throwing yourself into the practice that's really extreme for you might not be the best to start mindfulness. In Qi Dao, our approach is based not on going beyond a person's comfort zone but extending their comfort zone.
    - jacksonlango 6y ago
      Got it, yeah, I would definitely agree.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    > IE a few months of daily hour-long sits Maybe it’s a difference of perspective, but what you describe as practice already sounds pretty extreme to me.
    - brigandish 6y ago
      Most people sit all day looking at a screen, then they spend a large part of their free time also sitting to watch TV series (generally ~40 minutes long) and films (~90 to 120 minutes long) so spending 1 hr sitting without a distraction hardly seems extreme in comparison, though I wouldn't call it particularly useful. Like physical exercise, you'll probably get more benefit from many, smaller but intense reps than large one off attempts.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- nprateem 6y ago
  I read that the 'middle way' was as opposed to practices mortifying the body, eg starvation, self flagellation etc, which were popular at the time the Buddha was around.
sriku 6y ago
> I feel I can separate the sense of my being from my thoughts some times. This is key. Too much importance to thinking and thoughts otherwise all around. See even during "meditation" we tend to talk about "watching thoughts" like they are something special worth that attention.
sn41 6y ago
This separation of "sense of being" from thought also has been expressed in the teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti, Sri Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. The writings of Nisargadatta are especially helpful in shedding more light on this phenomenon. A very very corny way I like to think about this is the separation of the init process (being) from other processes (thought, sensation etc.). I know this is a very superficial interpretation, but I find it helpful.
- occamschainsaw 6y ago
  Another corny metaphor I use for my mind is: Most of my thoughts are runaway processes that are just burdening my system. You don't want your CPU going at 100% for extended periods of time, same for the mind.
IgorPartola 6y ago
The thing that’s been on my mind lately is that the definition of our human sentience is that a thought about a thought is itself a thought. We to some extent have solved the halting problem. Or rather it doesn’t apply to the way our programming works, if you will.
- nprateem 6y ago
  Don't think about the thoughts, just feel them. If you burn your hand, what comes first, the sensation of pain or thinking about it? Just be with the sensation, and don't drop into more thoughts about thoughts.
mleonhard 6y ago
I also attended a 10-day silent meditation retreat (the Goenka one) three years ago. I'm an atheist. I learned a crucial life skill at the retreat: awareness of my mood and thoughts. It's like adding realtime metrics to my emotional core and consciousness core. My state became observable. Since then, I've built a habit of checking those metrics and taking actions to improve my wellbeing. My life has gotten a lot better.

animal_spirits 6y ago

This is why I think it is important to understand and practice meditation and prayer. Maybe most don't understand the psychology behind it but dedicating some time during your day to sit and think can be surprisingly beneficial.

joe_the_user 6y ago

I've done a variety of meditation techniques and certainly appreciate the benefits they may offer. One thing I'd say is that it's not always the techniques that feel the hardest that actually offer the most benefits. I believe Buddha's term "middle way" referred to a way that was in the middle between extreme privation/altered consciousness and the ordinary world. I think those interested in meditation techniques should consider this. And in terms of long term silent retreats, I had an old friend who's schizophrenic symptoms were intensified by retreats of that sort and meditation in general isn't a thing that's riskless - I recall the possibility of serious reactions to meditation and intensive meditation in particular has been documented in a number of articles. Which relates to claims about "All problems"

jacksonlango 6y ago
This is the opinion of an amateur, but I think this is where "skillful effort" comes into play. A retreat like that will be less strenuous if you already have a daily meditation practice. I wouldn't describe a weeklong meditation retreat as the "extreme" side of the Buddha's middle way. That would be more like starving yourself in asceticism. With the right practice/preparation (IE a few months of daily hour-long sits), I think a weeklong retreat would be beneficial and reasonable for most people. Of course, getting to the point of a daily practice is pretty challenging itself, but not too much more than the average workout routine in my opinion.
- joe_the_user 6y ago
  Yeah, the point isn't that any given thing is hard but that throwing yourself into the practice that's really extreme for you might not be the best to start mindfulness. In Qi Dao, our approach is based not on going beyond a person's comfort zone but extending their comfort zone.
  - jacksonlango 6y ago
    Got it, yeah, I would definitely agree.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > IE a few months of daily hour-long sits Maybe it’s a difference of perspective, but what you describe as practice already sounds pretty extreme to me.
  - brigandish 6y ago
    Most people sit all day looking at a screen, then they spend a large part of their free time also sitting to watch TV series (generally ~40 minutes long) and films (~90 to 120 minutes long) so spending 1 hr sitting without a distraction hardly seems extreme in comparison, though I wouldn't call it particularly useful. Like physical exercise, you'll probably get more benefit from many, smaller but intense reps than large one off attempts.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nprateem 6y ago
I read that the 'middle way' was as opposed to practices mortifying the body, eg starvation, self flagellation etc, which were popular at the time the Buddha was around.

sriku 6y ago

> I feel I can separate the sense of my being from my thoughts some times. This is key. Too much importance to thinking and thoughts otherwise all around. See even during "meditation" we tend to talk about "watching thoughts" like they are something special worth that attention.

sn41 6y ago

This separation of "sense of being" from thought also has been expressed in the teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti, Sri Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. The writings of Nisargadatta are especially helpful in shedding more light on this phenomenon. A very very corny way I like to think about this is the separation of the init process (being) from other processes (thought, sensation etc.). I know this is a very superficial interpretation, but I find it helpful.

occamschainsaw 6y ago
Another corny metaphor I use for my mind is: Most of my thoughts are runaway processes that are just burdening my system. You don't want your CPU going at 100% for extended periods of time, same for the mind.

IgorPartola 6y ago

The thing that’s been on my mind lately is that the definition of our human sentience is that a thought about a thought is itself a thought. We to some extent have solved the halting problem. Or rather it doesn’t apply to the way our programming works, if you will.

nprateem 6y ago
Don't think about the thoughts, just feel them. If you burn your hand, what comes first, the sensation of pain or thinking about it? Just be with the sensation, and don't drop into more thoughts about thoughts.

mleonhard 6y ago

I also attended a 10-day silent meditation retreat (the Goenka one) three years ago. I'm an atheist. I learned a crucial life skill at the retreat: awareness of my mood and thoughts. It's like adding realtime metrics to my emotional core and consciousness core. My state became observable. Since then, I've built a habit of checking those metrics and taking actions to improve my wellbeing. My life has gotten a lot better.