16 ms·

This article immediately reminded me of a video I saw a while ago.[1] The long and short - MS basically laid off the staff that tested Windows, and much of it

This article immediately reminded me of a video I saw a while ago.[1] The long and short - MS basically laid off the staff that tested Windows, and much of it is automated nowadays (I bet the MBA educated executive at MS who was responsible for that got PHAT bonus, at the expense of Windows customers and laid off testing staff, of course). Seems like it happened in 2015, which is why it seems that windows updates have been more unstable in the last couple of years.[2] I really want to like windows, but Apple's M1 and Linux's community make it hard to ever love windows again. Oh well, I guess I will be using Macbooks for the rest of my life. Which, actually, isn't so bad I guess. FWIW - I would say this is unacceptable on microsoft's part. Windows is the default operating system of corporate america, department of defense, etc. Imagine if an update would brick Wells Fargo or the US Army. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9kn8_oztsA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9kn8_oztsA [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/former-microsoft-employee-talks-about-getting-fired-2014-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/former-microsoft-employee-ta...

dixie_land 6y ago
I believe Enterprise and LTS editions are on a different cadence. Probably came from the same MBA: let consumers be lab rats to for big enterprise customers
- donmcronald 6y ago
  That's exactly what it is and it's becoming more common. Java went that way. Windows went that way. CentOS is going that way. Office 365 is even worse because the low paying users get more frequent updates than high paying users. I know because I tracked down a long file name issue for someone and was shocked they were paying for it and still getting to be a beta tester for the "real" customers (huge businesses).
  - gruez 6y ago
    > Office 365 is even worse because the low paying users get more frequent updates than high paying users. AFAIK all office subscribers can change their update channel from monthly (default) to SAC (the one that "high paying users" use). The only difference is that the low paying user has to do it via group policy or registry, whereas the high paying users probably have some sort of enterprise admin tool that allows it to be set at the organization level.
    - aksss 6y ago
      Yes, for business and enterprise tenants, you can set the release cadence by group.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
apfsx 6y ago
Enterprise version (LTSC) hasn't had a feature update since November of 2018. Only security updates.
- technofiend 6y ago
  LTSC really is the way to go for a stable windows experience, unfortunately there's no legal way for consumers to get licenses without a much larger investment than what a home or pro license costs. You can meet in the middle and run transcript on pro which disables most of the worst new features.
  - miles 6y ago
    > LTSC really is the way to go for a stable windows experience, unfortunately there's no legal way for consumers to get licenses without a much larger investment than what a home or pro license costs. LTSC can be purchased legally by anyone for around $300: https://tinyapps.org/blog/201811300700_windows_10_ltsc.html https://tinyapps.org/blog/201811300700_windows_10_ltsc.html
    - technofiend 6y ago
      Nice. That cuts it in half from what I'd expect to pay.
  - userbinator 6y ago
    ...and if you pirate, you might as well go the whole hog and get the Server edition, which could now be considered to be the closest you can get to a non-hostile, classic Windows experience.
  - dschuler 6y ago
    > run transcript on pro which disables most of the worst new features That sounds good! How do I do this? What's transcript?
    - technofiend 6y ago
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
>Oh well, I guess I will be using Macbooks for the rest of my life https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/15/macos-big-sur-update-bricking-some-macbook-pros/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/15/macos-big-sur-update-br... Dropping quality is happening everywhere.
- game_the0ry 6y ago
  Yes, agreed. But at this point you want to buy the products that has decreased the least in terms of quality. In my experience, that usually means apple.
  - katbyte 6y ago
    At least apple hardware quality seems to be making a swing back into he upwards direction. Finally considering replacing my 2015 mbp
  - GreenWatermelon 6y ago
    It seems to me that Linux has only steadily increased in quality for the past few years. Dell now support Linux out of the box, and System 76 is Bringing Linux to the Mainstream user.
  - whywhywhywhy 6y ago
    I'd say the exact opposite, my 2014 MacBook Pro I use at home still functions fine, the battery is failing due to age but that is expected for 6 years of heavy daily use. My 2018 work USB-C MacBook Pro has several keys failing and several others with mushy tactility, has a failing battery which you have to wait to reboot from because the charger is so low voltage, has a bluetooth chip that hard crashes and requires a reboot to kick it back to life, often kernel panics while asleep. The 2014 arguably had harder use too because I used to use it for 3D rendering while all the 2018 has done is 2D design and Javascript. Not even gonna bring up 2002 Titanium Powerbook that I used daily until I bought that 2014 which fared best of all and didn't even have a fraying power cable like the modern Apple chargers where they switched to "eco friendly" rubber that failed dangerously requiring more chargers to be purchased negating any eco saving.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
I know we're basically comparing anecdotes, but I've been surprised at how much more I've come to trust my windows workstation than my Mac in the past few years. I can't actually remember the last time my Windows workstation crashed outright (if ever?) but my Mac locks up at least 2-3 times per week. I also have to be extremely careful to avoid high memory pressure under Big Sur now, otherwise Finder spirals into a restart loop that can only be fixed with a hard reset. I also had to give up my Mac Thunderbolt setup because I've been fighting the same Thunderbolt crash that many people have been complaining about since Catalina was released in 2019 ( https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/16/gameover/ https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/16/gameover/ ). Meanwhile, my Windows machine just keeps chugging along, drama free. All of my hardware and peripherals work just fine with it, but I often have to play the plug-unplug game with audio peripherals until video playback works on my Mac. Five years ago I never would have guessed I'd be writing an HN comment praising my Windows machine and lamenting all of the issues with my Mac, but here we are. It's downright depressing to think of all the time I've lost in the past year waiting for my MacBook to reboot or replugging USB cables until everything works after I wake it from sleep.
- keithnz 6y ago
  same, I often end up having to force reboot my mac as it seems to do strange things and freeze up. My windows machine is going strong, haven't really had a problem for a long long time
  - RobertDeBord 6y ago
    Same. To the point where I finally gave on my mbp and built a windows pc. Network (wifi and ethernet) dying repeatedly and at random, only coming back after a reboot, got to be too much when working remote. Random lock ups, I got more kernel panics in the last year than I have in the last 5 ish prior combined. Not reliable and it feels like the OS is sacrificing stability for features I don't want/need.
- game_the0ry 6y ago
  Fair enough, but to be clear - I am not saying that apple software and products are free from problems. Far from it - butterfly keyboard, for example. I am just saying Apple, for me, has the most reliable and consistent experience. And I have tried most options: - windows, linux, and macos for my personal and work machines - android, ios, and even windows phone (remember that?) So far, may experience has been the opposite of yours - my work laptop is a 2015 macbook pro 15 and still performs really well (no crashes), but I have BSODed a couple of times on my windows 10 laptop I bought last year. Doesn't say much, I know.
ashleyn 6y ago
I've been mostly Linux since 2011 and the few times I had to install Win10 for something I've been very displeased. We've fallen quite far in Windows, with ads everywhere, hundreds of services that do God-knows-what, fresh installs that break as soon as the updater runs for the first time. I'm really not impressed and I try to use it as little as possible. Just a bloated, unstable mess designed to sell Microsoft's value-added services.
- runjake 6y ago
  Are people seeing ads in Windows 10? I often hear this, but I've never seen an ad (except MSFT's own ads getting to to try its new Edge browser.)
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    In most, but not all installs, the start menu pre-installs game ads, explorer advertises for onedrive, and the lock screen advertises things on top of the pretty pictures.
    - runjake 6y ago
      Ah ok. I do see almost all of these things, except for the game ads.
    - leonidasv 6y ago
      What drives me nuts is that those ads are also present in the "Pro" edition as well. I could understand MSFT pushing games into start menu for Home users, but doing so for Pro licences is outrageous.
      - R0b0t1 6y ago
        If I have to use Windows I install server. It is missing all of this. But lack of WHQL drivers means it usually won't run on portables.
        6y ago
usr1106 6y ago
> Oh well, I guess I will be using Macbooks for the rest of my life. I on the other hand would never voluntarily set my foot into the walled garden. That might be suitable for some users, but for readers of HN it shouldn't be necessary. I'm happy to run Gnu/Linux even on my phone, even if that might cause occasional inconvenience with the current duopoly in that segment. Freedom is freedom after all. Well, people seem to make different choices...
piracy1 6y ago
WF and the army: We actually don't update. /s
userbinator 6y ago
I agree that any sort of data loss is completely unacceptable, especially given the amount of force with which MS has been pushing automatic updates and making it difficult to completely disable. The previous huge fuckup that caused data loss is still a fresh memory to me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18189139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18189139
geofft 6y ago
Wells Fargo and the US Army are well capable of paying Microsoft enough money to change their incentives. This is why things like security audits exist - you can't judge a software product's internal quality from just what the salespeople tell you and what you see by running it, so you demand as a condition of purchase that someone look (with an appropriate NDA) at the internals and deliver a second opinion as to whether it's competent-looking code. This is also why things like PCI exist - you certainly can process credit cards without being careful about anything, but the credit card companies have decided (with an eye their own long-term profitability) that you only should process them with at least a little bit of care, even if that doesn't produce a visible functional difference. Yet. Now, I'm not saying these are perfect processes by any stretch, but they absolutely act to prevent a company from laying off a division that provides an important but unseen function and coasting on reputation for several years. No company the size of Microsoft is going to develop good software out of the kindness of its heart or a sense of professional pride or responsibility. Individuals do this all the time, of course - that's why Linux exists in the first place. But once you put a company around it, you should expect that it's going to have MBAs who don't want people to spend their time doing things that don't bring profit, and the customers should interact with the company accordingly: make sure the things you do want them doing bring them profit
an_opabinia 6y ago
It’s too bad there are forced updates at all. Anyway, if you make money using your computer, don’t update. If you make money making updates, I don’t know.
eecc 6y ago
Well, to be honest I much prefer - and trust - fully automated test pipelines to manuality. It affords more frequent and thorough verification of the final artifacts. The problem comes when the automation is only partial because added at a later stage, and the existing software does not lend itself to testing. The risk there is that some short-sighted line manager will go “YOLO, I have a deadline” and skip the tests rather than flag the problem and dedicate budget and effort to redesign the existing for testability. That’s where guidance and oversight are key, and more often than not, sorely lacking.
- jiggawatts 6y ago
  The other problem with the type of "in the field" testing that Microsoft does is that it can only capture issues that it can physically report back to the head office. I had two separate computers with very distinct hardware that both failed to upgrade to any of the semi-annual Windows releases. They would just get stuck in a reboot loop at the SSD storage driver loading section of the installer, which means that no errors could be written. Hence, no specific errors could ever be sent back to Microsoft other than "failed". I eventually found a workaround myself, but the root cause was never fixed, and will never be fixed, because Microsoft is blind to it. Similarly, anything that causes a BSOD gets reported back via telemetry, but hangs and freezes aren't. Random performance issues, glitches, etc... are in the same bucket of permanently invisible issues. If you're wondering why Windows is crashing less but glitching more... there's your answer.
  - eecc 6y ago
    Gah, glitches. Just spent two weeks trying to figure out the sudden seizures a Win10 running on a spanking new T14s. After 15 years of Apple Mac it’s insane, how can people put up with this horror.
- salawat 6y ago
  I"m a huge proponent of automate the crap out of your tests, but you also have to break out of the automating mindset to get at the better problems. People are not machines, and automated tests are machines verifying machines. It's why I like having a few non-automators and program noodlers around.
anoncow 6y ago
A counterpoint. All recent Mac OS versions have been a steaming pile for the first few releases, Catalina and Big Sur included.
- kilroy123 6y ago
  That was my first thought as well, macOS hasn't been a bastion of stability either. So many huge insane security bugs. I always stay one entire version behind. I'm going to barely going to update to macOS Catalina now that big sur is out.
jakub_g 6y ago
AFAIU Windows updates roll out to regular users first, and to corporate customers much later (perhaps depending on how the admin configures it). In a way, regular users are test monkeys. But this makes it less likely to brick corporations. (Of course this can still happen to due unique corp settings).
_wldu 6y ago
The really sad part about this is that Microsoft was the systems programming startup. Their software engineers changed the world. Of course, that was 40+ years ago, but it's sad to see them turn away from their technical roots.
Jemm 6y ago
I would agree with you except for Apple hobbling their products to force you to buy more of their products. Drives me crazy.
fortran77 6y ago
Windows 10 has been the most reliable, productive, stable system for me over the past few years. No doubt they use a lot of automated testing -- how could they not? But today's Windows 10 is -very- reliable.
- donmcronald 6y ago
  It's filled with enough annoyances for me to be frustrating at times. The night light is awful and blasts you with full blue light whenever monitors come out of standby mode and then it'll be "On" but not actually on until you toggle it. Lately explorer hasn't been refreshing properly, so when I create a new folder I need to right-click, refresh before I see it and can rename it. Things that auto-install drive me crazy. No, I don't want to "Meet Now". Every SAC update tries to trick me into enabling OneDrive "backup" (sync is NOT a backup) and I missed it once so all my stuff got uploaded to OneDrive. BitLocker with a PIN and Windows Update don't seem to know each other exist. Updates auto-restart the computer and then it sits at the BitLocker screen or, in my case, reboots continuously every few minutes spinning the fans up to max on every reboot. I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones that annoy me daily.
  - danielscrubs 6y ago
    Yesterday I had the sound not working, it said 97% volume and the correct sound output, increased it to 98% and suddenly it works...
fortran77 6y ago
There’s a chance this bug is caused by a faulty wear-leveling algorithm specific models of SSD. I tried to repro and couldn’t.
- GrayShade 6y ago
  The article mentions it happened with different SSD makes and manufacturers.
aksss 6y ago
> more unstable in last couple years. Having used Windows for decades, I more pleased with Windows update now than I remember ever having been. Although some of that may be because I don’t have a team responsible for patching Windows servers anymore. But my workstation performs great and the update process for Windows 10 has seemed very reliable (relative to versions past).
athms 6y ago
Apple's has done the same thing regarding QA. Lots of companies have eliminated their QA departments, moved the QA engineers under development managers, and transitioned the QA labs to virtual machines allowing all tests to be identical and repeatable on each machine. You will never find edge cases or problems unique to certain hardware and software configurations. As an example, Big Sur bricked lots of Late-2013 MBP laptops, but Apple had no way of knowing this would happen because they never tested them.

dixie_land 6y ago

I believe Enterprise and LTS editions are on a different cadence. Probably came from the same MBA: let consumers be lab rats to for big enterprise customers

donmcronald 6y ago
That's exactly what it is and it's becoming more common. Java went that way. Windows went that way. CentOS is going that way. Office 365 is even worse because the low paying users get more frequent updates than high paying users. I know because I tracked down a long file name issue for someone and was shocked they were paying for it and still getting to be a beta tester for the "real" customers (huge businesses).
- gruez 6y ago
  > Office 365 is even worse because the low paying users get more frequent updates than high paying users. AFAIK all office subscribers can change their update channel from monthly (default) to SAC (the one that "high paying users" use). The only difference is that the low paying user has to do it via group policy or registry, whereas the high paying users probably have some sort of enterprise admin tool that allows it to be set at the organization level.
  - aksss 6y ago
    Yes, for business and enterprise tenants, you can set the release cadence by group.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

apfsx 6y ago

Enterprise version (LTSC) hasn't had a feature update since November of 2018. Only security updates.

technofiend 6y ago
LTSC really is the way to go for a stable windows experience, unfortunately there's no legal way for consumers to get licenses without a much larger investment than what a home or pro license costs. You can meet in the middle and run transcript on pro which disables most of the worst new features.
- miles 6y ago
  > LTSC really is the way to go for a stable windows experience, unfortunately there's no legal way for consumers to get licenses without a much larger investment than what a home or pro license costs. LTSC can be purchased legally by anyone for around $300: https://tinyapps.org/blog/201811300700_windows_10_ltsc.html https://tinyapps.org/blog/201811300700_windows_10_ltsc.html
  - technofiend 6y ago
    Nice. That cuts it in half from what I'd expect to pay.
- userbinator 6y ago
  ...and if you pirate, you might as well go the whole hog and get the Server edition, which could now be considered to be the closest you can get to a non-hostile, classic Windows experience.
- dschuler 6y ago
  > run transcript on pro which disables most of the worst new features That sounds good! How do I do this? What's transcript?
  - technofiend 6y ago

whywhywhywhy 6y ago

>Oh well, I guess I will be using Macbooks for the rest of my life https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/15/macos-big-sur-update-bricking-some-macbook-pros/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/15/macos-big-sur-update-br... Dropping quality is happening everywhere.

game_the0ry 6y ago
Yes, agreed. But at this point you want to buy the products that has decreased the least in terms of quality. In my experience, that usually means apple.
- katbyte 6y ago
  At least apple hardware quality seems to be making a swing back into he upwards direction. Finally considering replacing my 2015 mbp
- GreenWatermelon 6y ago
  It seems to me that Linux has only steadily increased in quality for the past few years. Dell now support Linux out of the box, and System 76 is Bringing Linux to the Mainstream user.
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  I'd say the exact opposite, my 2014 MacBook Pro I use at home still functions fine, the battery is failing due to age but that is expected for 6 years of heavy daily use. My 2018 work USB-C MacBook Pro has several keys failing and several others with mushy tactility, has a failing battery which you have to wait to reboot from because the charger is so low voltage, has a bluetooth chip that hard crashes and requires a reboot to kick it back to life, often kernel panics while asleep. The 2014 arguably had harder use too because I used to use it for 3D rendering while all the 2018 has done is 2D design and Javascript. Not even gonna bring up 2002 Titanium Powerbook that I used daily until I bought that 2014 which fared best of all and didn't even have a fraying power cable like the modern Apple chargers where they switched to "eco friendly" rubber that failed dangerously requiring more chargers to be purchased negating any eco saving.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

I know we're basically comparing anecdotes, but I've been surprised at how much more I've come to trust my windows workstation than my Mac in the past few years. I can't actually remember the last time my Windows workstation crashed outright (if ever?) but my Mac locks up at least 2-3 times per week. I also have to be extremely careful to avoid high memory pressure under Big Sur now, otherwise Finder spirals into a restart loop that can only be fixed with a hard reset. I also had to give up my Mac Thunderbolt setup because I've been fighting the same Thunderbolt crash that many people have been complaining about since Catalina was released in 2019 ( https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/16/gameover/ https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/16/gameover/ ). Meanwhile, my Windows machine just keeps chugging along, drama free. All of my hardware and peripherals work just fine with it, but I often have to play the plug-unplug game with audio peripherals until video playback works on my Mac. Five years ago I never would have guessed I'd be writing an HN comment praising my Windows machine and lamenting all of the issues with my Mac, but here we are. It's downright depressing to think of all the time I've lost in the past year waiting for my MacBook to reboot or replugging USB cables until everything works after I wake it from sleep.

keithnz 6y ago
same, I often end up having to force reboot my mac as it seems to do strange things and freeze up. My windows machine is going strong, haven't really had a problem for a long long time
- RobertDeBord 6y ago
  Same. To the point where I finally gave on my mbp and built a windows pc. Network (wifi and ethernet) dying repeatedly and at random, only coming back after a reboot, got to be too much when working remote. Random lock ups, I got more kernel panics in the last year than I have in the last 5 ish prior combined. Not reliable and it feels like the OS is sacrificing stability for features I don't want/need.
game_the0ry 6y ago
Fair enough, but to be clear - I am not saying that apple software and products are free from problems. Far from it - butterfly keyboard, for example. I am just saying Apple, for me, has the most reliable and consistent experience. And I have tried most options: - windows, linux, and macos for my personal and work machines - android, ios, and even windows phone (remember that?) So far, may experience has been the opposite of yours - my work laptop is a 2015 macbook pro 15 and still performs really well (no crashes), but I have BSODed a couple of times on my windows 10 laptop I bought last year. Doesn't say much, I know.

ashleyn 6y ago

I've been mostly Linux since 2011 and the few times I had to install Win10 for something I've been very displeased. We've fallen quite far in Windows, with ads everywhere, hundreds of services that do God-knows-what, fresh installs that break as soon as the updater runs for the first time. I'm really not impressed and I try to use it as little as possible. Just a bloated, unstable mess designed to sell Microsoft's value-added services.

runjake 6y ago
Are people seeing ads in Windows 10? I often hear this, but I've never seen an ad (except MSFT's own ads getting to to try its new Edge browser.)
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  In most, but not all installs, the start menu pre-installs game ads, explorer advertises for onedrive, and the lock screen advertises things on top of the pretty pictures.
  - runjake 6y ago
    Ah ok. I do see almost all of these things, except for the game ads.
  - leonidasv 6y ago
    What drives me nuts is that those ads are also present in the "Pro" edition as well. I could understand MSFT pushing games into start menu for Home users, but doing so for Pro licences is outrageous.
    - R0b0t1 6y ago
      If I have to use Windows I install server. It is missing all of this. But lack of WHQL drivers means it usually won't run on portables.
      - 6y ago

usr1106 6y ago

> Oh well, I guess I will be using Macbooks for the rest of my life. I on the other hand would never voluntarily set my foot into the walled garden. That might be suitable for some users, but for readers of HN it shouldn't be necessary. I'm happy to run Gnu/Linux even on my phone, even if that might cause occasional inconvenience with the current duopoly in that segment. Freedom is freedom after all. Well, people seem to make different choices...

piracy1 6y ago

WF and the army: We actually don't update. /s

userbinator 6y ago

I agree that any sort of data loss is completely unacceptable, especially given the amount of force with which MS has been pushing automatic updates and making it difficult to completely disable. The previous huge fuckup that caused data loss is still a fresh memory to me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18189139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18189139

geofft 6y ago

Wells Fargo and the US Army are well capable of paying Microsoft enough money to change their incentives. This is why things like security audits exist - you can't judge a software product's internal quality from just what the salespeople tell you and what you see by running it, so you demand as a condition of purchase that someone look (with an appropriate NDA) at the internals and deliver a second opinion as to whether it's competent-looking code. This is also why things like PCI exist - you certainly can process credit cards without being careful about anything, but the credit card companies have decided (with an eye their own long-term profitability) that you only should process them with at least a little bit of care, even if that doesn't produce a visible functional difference. Yet. Now, I'm not saying these are perfect processes by any stretch, but they absolutely act to prevent a company from laying off a division that provides an important but unseen function and coasting on reputation for several years. No company the size of Microsoft is going to develop good software out of the kindness of its heart or a sense of professional pride or responsibility. Individuals do this all the time, of course - that's why Linux exists in the first place. But once you put a company around it, you should expect that it's going to have MBAs who don't want people to spend their time doing things that don't bring profit, and the customers should interact with the company accordingly: make sure the things you do want them doing bring them profit

an_opabinia 6y ago

It’s too bad there are forced updates at all. Anyway, if you make money using your computer, don’t update. If you make money making updates, I don’t know.

eecc 6y ago

Well, to be honest I much prefer - and trust - fully automated test pipelines to manuality. It affords more frequent and thorough verification of the final artifacts. The problem comes when the automation is only partial because added at a later stage, and the existing software does not lend itself to testing. The risk there is that some short-sighted line manager will go “YOLO, I have a deadline” and skip the tests rather than flag the problem and dedicate budget and effort to redesign the existing for testability. That’s where guidance and oversight are key, and more often than not, sorely lacking.

jiggawatts 6y ago
The other problem with the type of "in the field" testing that Microsoft does is that it can only capture issues that it can physically report back to the head office. I had two separate computers with very distinct hardware that both failed to upgrade to any of the semi-annual Windows releases. They would just get stuck in a reboot loop at the SSD storage driver loading section of the installer, which means that no errors could be written. Hence, no specific errors could ever be sent back to Microsoft other than "failed". I eventually found a workaround myself, but the root cause was never fixed, and will never be fixed, because Microsoft is blind to it. Similarly, anything that causes a BSOD gets reported back via telemetry, but hangs and freezes aren't. Random performance issues, glitches, etc... are in the same bucket of permanently invisible issues. If you're wondering why Windows is crashing less but glitching more... there's your answer.
- eecc 6y ago
  Gah, glitches. Just spent two weeks trying to figure out the sudden seizures a Win10 running on a spanking new T14s. After 15 years of Apple Mac it’s insane, how can people put up with this horror.
salawat 6y ago
I"m a huge proponent of automate the crap out of your tests, but you also have to break out of the automating mindset to get at the better problems. People are not machines, and automated tests are machines verifying machines. It's why I like having a few non-automators and program noodlers around.

anoncow 6y ago

A counterpoint. All recent Mac OS versions have been a steaming pile for the first few releases, Catalina and Big Sur included.

kilroy123 6y ago
That was my first thought as well, macOS hasn't been a bastion of stability either. So many huge insane security bugs. I always stay one entire version behind. I'm going to barely going to update to macOS Catalina now that big sur is out.

jakub_g 6y ago

AFAIU Windows updates roll out to regular users first, and to corporate customers much later (perhaps depending on how the admin configures it). In a way, regular users are test monkeys. But this makes it less likely to brick corporations. (Of course this can still happen to due unique corp settings).

_wldu 6y ago

The really sad part about this is that Microsoft was the systems programming startup. Their software engineers changed the world. Of course, that was 40+ years ago, but it's sad to see them turn away from their technical roots.

Jemm 6y ago

I would agree with you except for Apple hobbling their products to force you to buy more of their products. Drives me crazy.

fortran77 6y ago

Windows 10 has been the most reliable, productive, stable system for me over the past few years. No doubt they use a lot of automated testing -- how could they not? But today's Windows 10 is -very- reliable.

donmcronald 6y ago
It's filled with enough annoyances for me to be frustrating at times. The night light is awful and blasts you with full blue light whenever monitors come out of standby mode and then it'll be "On" but not actually on until you toggle it. Lately explorer hasn't been refreshing properly, so when I create a new folder I need to right-click, refresh before I see it and can rename it. Things that auto-install drive me crazy. No, I don't want to "Meet Now". Every SAC update tries to trick me into enabling OneDrive "backup" (sync is NOT a backup) and I missed it once so all my stuff got uploaded to OneDrive. BitLocker with a PIN and Windows Update don't seem to know each other exist. Updates auto-restart the computer and then it sits at the BitLocker screen or, in my case, reboots continuously every few minutes spinning the fans up to max on every reboot. I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones that annoy me daily.
- danielscrubs 6y ago
  Yesterday I had the sound not working, it said 97% volume and the correct sound output, increased it to 98% and suddenly it works...

fortran77 6y ago

There’s a chance this bug is caused by a faulty wear-leveling algorithm specific models of SSD. I tried to repro and couldn’t.

GrayShade 6y ago
The article mentions it happened with different SSD makes and manufacturers.

aksss 6y ago

> more unstable in last couple years. Having used Windows for decades, I more pleased with Windows update now than I remember ever having been. Although some of that may be because I don’t have a team responsible for patching Windows servers anymore. But my workstation performs great and the update process for Windows 10 has seemed very reliable (relative to versions past).

athms 6y ago

Apple's has done the same thing regarding QA. Lots of companies have eliminated their QA departments, moved the QA engineers under development managers, and transitioned the QA labs to virtual machines allowing all tests to be identical and repeatable on each machine. You will never find edge cases or problems unique to certain hardware and software configurations. As an example, Big Sur bricked lots of Late-2013 MBP laptops, but Apple had no way of knowing this would happen because they never tested them.