16 ms·

I Bought Apple Silicon

196 points by honzajavorek 6y ago

lawrencevillain 6y ago
Awesome, I'm waiting on my new pro to get here, it's a huge upgrade from my 2016 butterfly that died on me. I wasn't sure which one to get but after upgrading the memory to 16GB the cost difference is pretty inconsequential between the two.
deleted 6y ago
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s1k3s 6y ago
I want a no commentary, no sound, video of the M1 Mac usage. Like show me how it runs YouTube on Chrome for example. So tired of these reviews that don't show anything other than the opinion of some fellow that is either Apple-biased or doesn't cover my field of usage at all.
- czzr 6y ago
  This might work for you, if you turn the sound off: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UxSI45eeAts https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UxSI45eeAts
- Closi 6y ago
  What laptop are you on that struggles to play Youtube on Chrome?
  - s1k3s 6y ago
    Nothing struggles. But the Intel 2020 Air is noticeably slower than the refurbished 2012 Linux Mint (and 2015 Windows) that I own. Disclaimer: I bought the Mac for building apps only.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      The M1 macs are the fastest web browsing machines you can buy, by a huge margin. If that's your use case, there's no question what machine to get. The closest you can come with mobile x86 is to get the top-of-the-line 11th Gen Core i7, and the M1 beats that thing by almost 100% in browser benchmarks.
      - Closi 6y ago
        Yep, or alternatively an iPad Air with a magic keyboard. (Ducks)
        jeffbee 6y ago
        Not even wrong. There's hardly a difference between the latest iPad and the latest MacBook.
    - jen729w 6y ago
      Interesting that the blame here seems to sit with Apple. Aren’t we asking why Google, who owns the browser, can’t make YouTube, a video player, that they own, work in that browser on 2020 hardware? YouTube is a turd. I do everything I can to avoid using it. How they’ve screwed up a video player that badly boggles the mind.
      - s1k3s 6y ago
        Oh, I'm not blaming Apple for anything here. I actually love my Mac Air, for the things its really good at. I'm blaming the so-called YT influencers/content creators that lie to their audience.
      - 43920 6y ago
        Youtube is basically optimizing for their own costs over that of end users by using VP9, which uses less bandwidth but often is software-decoded. So the real answer is basically that they can, but it would cost them more. (Of course, the YouTube frontend is also fairly bloated, which doesn't help. There isn't much of an excuse for that one).
  - xxpor 6y ago
    My 2016 HP Elitebook G3 does. model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6600U CPU @ 2.60GHz It doesn't have hw acceleration for VC1, so youtube specifically has a lot of issues. I've been able to rectify it by using h264ify to force youtube to give me h264 but a normie isn't going to be able to figure that out.
    - lostmsu 6y ago
      I have 6100U and it seems fine...
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - fy20 6y ago
      I have the same processor in my ThinkPad T470s and it's terrible for anything video. Even a browser (Chrome and Firefox) tab in the background with a few CSS animations causes it to be noticeably unresponsive in other applications. It supports 4K output but my tests (backend TypeScript) are measurably slower when the display is at 4K vs 1440p. What OS are you using? I run Linux so I'm wondering if it's that, but I've tried every different DE and Xorg Vs Wayland and different drivers, and they are all just as bad.
- ianai 6y ago
  This kind of helps illustrate your point. It’s from the linked review titled “forget the performance the battery life will blow you away” https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/m1-dock.gif https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/m1-dock.gi...
- turtlebits 6y ago
  Not everything is going to cater to your needs. I was curious how homebrew works so this was interesting to me. Looks like I'm going to hold off for a bit. The title of the article/link could be a bit more descriptive though.
- syntaxing 6y ago
  What sort of usage are you looking at? I have a Mac mini M1 and MBA (Intel i7) that I can do some test on. Anecdata wise, my M1 runs noticeably faster than my MBA minus software incompatibility issues.
  - s1k3s 6y ago
    If you record your screen for 10 minutes while doing common stuff like mail, web browsing etc, you've already beaten 99% of the tech review YT channels out there in terms of competence on reviewing something.
    - syntaxing 6y ago
      I wish this was true :/ But it was breaking people's webpage where the page won't load (including myself) and the menu you would normally when you click the icon on the bar was white.
- tksb 6y ago
  Is it the assumed bias or the lack of "coverage" that's most annoying? I see coverage but recognize the bias so I'm very genuinely curious what it is you're hoping for as far as reportage on bleeding edge Apple chips.
- post_break 6y ago
  I've got a 16GB ram macbook pro M1 I can show you maybe? Plugged into a 27" 1440p monitor in clamshell mode demolishing even my hackintosh at basic tasks.
- christoph 6y ago
  Switch the sound off and try this for how performant it is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKRDlkyILNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKRDlkyILNY Maybe not a real world use case, but in day to day use, it really does fly. Things I've noticed that are real world and noticeably quicker than my Intel MBP day to day - decompressing large archives (4gb+ ZIP files for instance), compressing folders with thousands of small files, opening very large XD & Photoshop files, etc. My MBP used to sound like jet engine when watching YouTube while doing multiple other things. I'm still yet to hear the fan spin up on this once.
ksml 6y ago
This is my first time hearing Apple refurbished meaning old store display model. I always thought refurbished machines were products that other people bought new and returned, and then Apple restored them to like-new condition. There seem to be a lot more refurbs available than I would imagine there are old display models. Now I'm curious, though, does anyone know more about how (Apple official) refurbs are sourced?
- wtn 6y ago
  He wrote "second hand, refurbished" so it's not entirely clear that it was Apple refurbished.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    I made the assumption that he meant refurbished by a third-party, not Apple, because it's pretty common for those sorts of secondhand machines to be refurbished with new screens. Figure they put in the cheapest screen they could source, and no wonder it's dying in 5 years. I doubt any OE screen from Apple would have the same problem he describes.
- ncw96 6y ago
  It is also my understanding that Apple refurbs are returned devices.
- honzajavorek 6y ago
  Hi, I'm the author. To be honest, I'm not sure how the refurbished thing works. That's why the whole paragraph is full of "I think" and "perhaps" and "my theory is". It's all just speculation. The shop where I bought it had it marked as refurbished, that's what I'm sure about, but I don't know what's the exact history of the machine. I've heard rumors those are computers from Apple Store etc., hence the speculation about worn out display, but I've never really investigated it further. Doesn't matter much now, whatever the reason, the display is dead.
- threepio 6y ago
  I have bought Apple refurbished machines. I always understood them to be more-or-less unused returns. IIRC Apple cannot legally advertise returned machines as "new", hence the "refurbished" designation. Moreover Apple has an essentially unlimited supply of machines. I can't imagine it would be worth it to actually take in machines and repair them (not least because it would undermine confidence in the refurb store if it was a gamble about whether you'd get a basically-new machine or beat-up machine.)
super_trooper 6y ago
Nice try, Apple
mesh 6y ago
-- I decided I don't need more RAM than 8 GB, because nobody from the first reviewers managed to give the RAM a hard time. It seemed to me it's a different beast altogether and it doesn't make sense to just compare numbers and say that more is better. Apple allows you to buy a computer with more than 8 GB RAM, but I think it's just a trap how to satisfy and charge those who don't believe the reviews and just want more RAM whatever it takes. -- I think the reason I would always buy more RAM is not because it needs it today, but because it may need it in 2 or 3 years, as app inevitably eat into the performance gains with bloat.
- nojito 6y ago
  This mentality is exactly why Apple charges such a high tax on RAM upgrades. The vast majority of people upgrading their RAM are doing so simply because they see a bigger number and not because they need it.
- jcelerier 6y ago
  I find that crazy. I bought a computer with 16gb of ram in 2011 and by 2015 I was hitting OOM left and right. I bought a mac mini with 32 GB in 2018 and I managed to OOM it a few times and oh boy was it ugly - already regret not taking the 64gb option at the time.
  - rblatz 6y ago
    Agreed I’ve been 16gb+ for a decade now. He seems to have under-specced on ram and HD.
  - qz2 6y ago
    I risked it on an 8gb mini and quite frankly i can’t bend it even if I try. Only thing it’ll probably die on is running VMs which I’m not going to do any more. They can live in DigitalOcean. One liner review: this is the only computer I’ve ever had which can keep up with me.
  - JohnJamesRambo 6y ago
    > a mac mini with 32 GB in 2018 and I managed to OOM it a few times and oh boy was it ugly How?
ianai 6y ago
“ I also decided I want 512 GB drive, as I'm used to that size and I didn't want to downgrade” my 512gb MBA gets ~2800/2700 MBs read/write versus the standard benchmarks of ~2000. I’ve been curious for benchmarks of the higher capacities but haven’t found any. Seems capacity still increases performance like it did earlier generations with ssds.
sillysaurusx 6y ago
Bad idea to get 8GB instead of 16GB ram. It's +$200 for doubling your capacity for years to come. Anyone have an opinion on Mac Mini vs Air? the raw benchmarks seem to favor the M1 mac mini: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1331923535053299712 https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1331923535053299712 It takes 25m05s to compile webkit on a macbook air, but 19m32s on a Mac Mini. That's not-insignificant. And the Mini is several hundred cheaper than the Air too. Mobility seems like an issue, but an external keyboard + tiny monitor seems to solve that. Though using a backpack + monitor + keyboard + mac mini + uninterruptible power supply is ... well ... maybe not too practical. It's hard to decide.
- jen729w 6y ago
  > Mobility seems like an issue, but an external keyboard + tiny monitor seems to solve that. Though using a backpack + monitor + keyboard + mac mini + uninterruptible power supply is ... well ... maybe not too practical. It's hard to decide. Perhaps the most HN comment ever. :-) The Mini is great if it’s sitting under your desk. I’ve had one running for 10 years now. OS updates stopped last year but for what I use it for, it’s a champion. But c’mon, the idea of schlepping it around with a portable tiny monitor is madness. Think of the time you save in build time and how badly it’s offset by the setup time for the Mini + all the gear every time you get a place. Get the Air.
- qz2 6y ago
  I’m using an ass end M1 mini with a 27” 4K Iiyama monitor, an Apple magic touchpad and Durgod K320 keyboard. It’s my favourite computer set up so far in all the years I’ve been doing this. I don’t want another back and neck killing laptop in my life in my 40s if I’m honest. This is also not my first ARM desktop. I had an Acorn A420 a very long time ago.
- oops 6y ago
  The M1 MBP does it in in 20m43s[1]. It's more expensive -- or maybe not after you add all those peripherals to your Mini -- and think of what you'll save in chiropractor bills! 1: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/17/apple-silicon-m1-compiles-code-as-fast-as-mac-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/17/apple-silicon-m1-compil...
Apocryphon 6y ago
> Spotify, Slack, Discord, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, all the annoying bloated websites, which I used to hate so much for the past months, now run like if they were the most optimized websites on the internet. This is just going to encourage bloat and inefficiency, isn't it? Note: this has nothing to do with specifically Apple Silicon but just any computing improvements in general.
- 0xCMP 6y ago
  Yes, but that's pretty much how it goes. Jonathan Blow had a rant on release of the M1 Macs saying it literally didn't matter because computers were already really fast and the problem has been, and will continue to be, that if the processor/system is faster then software will be written slower to hit the magical response time expected. Kind of a cynical take... but is he wrong?
  - pushrax 6y ago
    Carmack famously also has declared "I would rather have magic software over magic hardware" - the context being that we're using current hardware to a small fraction of its potential. Still, I feel there's a lot of software I use that is hard to optimize or no longer developed, and I'm certainly happy to have it run faster given new hardware. As a programmer I also like being able to be lazier and still have usable software. Higher level languages, GC, less thinking about access patterns and debugging prefetch problems, etc.
  - ATsch 6y ago
    Given it's Jonathan Blow, I feel compelled to say yes. More seriously, while program overheads have undoubtedly gotten higher, that's always been in exchange for something else, even if non-technical, like a better developer experience and platform support. Nobody writes slow programs on purpose, but people are very willing to trade it off for things that are more important in the grand scheme of things. Low level programmers love to smugly pretend that those tradeoffs do not exist but they do.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
wapxmas 6y ago
The most interesting part about an M1 architecture is an absence of any fan. But, still, from a back-end developer point of view, the one has to wait at least 3-6 months for the software to embrace an M1 chip.
- vimy 6y ago
  There's no need to wait. Rosetta is doing a fine job running x86 apps. Some apps run even faster than on intel.
- threeseed 6y ago
  There is a fan on the Mac mini and MacBook Pro. From benchmarks it only kicks in after like 10 minutes of sustained heavy usage e.g. rendering.
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    M1 MBP fan comes on pretty quick if you run something like wireguard-vanity-address which will use all 8 cores at full whack. Other than that, it rarely comes on for me.
- macintux 6y ago
  Given the rate at which software is being ported, I think 3-6 months is very pessimistic for most applications.
onli 6y ago
> Given the little chance Intel or anyone else is going to keep up with this new level of performance, I believe this new laptop could be with me perhaps even longer, unless everyone else in the world buys it and developers start to create 10x bloated apps compared to today. That's naive and wrong. The M1 seems to be an excellent processor with good performance. It's not worlds better than a Ryzen 5 5600X or its mobile variant. > I decided I don't need more RAM than 8 GB, because nobody from the first reviewers managed to give the RAM a hard time. It seemed to me it's a different beast altogether and it doesn't make sense to just compare numbers and say that more is better. The processor is not a magical thing that changes how much memory is needed for workloads. When the first reviewers did not look at your workload it's meaningless that they did not complain. Your memory requirements completely depend on your workload. It's quite possible you do not use more than 8GB, but I had IDEs and GIMP use more than that. And it's of course (it's Apple) not upgradeable, 8GB will not be enough if your usage changes, and then that laptop will just be expensive garbage for you.
- threeseed 6y ago
  > It's not worlds better than a Ryzen 5 5600X or its mobile variant Maybe if you're solely focused on performance. But the other reason why M1 is so ground breaking is because it offers this performance with ~2x the battery life and minimal cooling compared to its competitors.
  - neogodless 6y ago
    I think everyone is aware of the battery life / minimal heat dissipation of the Apple Silicon processor. The grandparent comment was specifically quoting and refuting this line: > Given the little chance Intel or anyone else is going to keep up with this new level of performance
    - zepto 6y ago
      That line is strictly true in a thermally constrained machine such as a laptop.
syntaxing 6y ago
I have a Mac mini M1. I’m leaning towards returning it and getting a 16GB but the 16GB had the longest delivery time. Interestingly enough, I do run some “heavy loading” stuff and I just scratch 6GB or so. I am curious what the longevity issues are with the large swap partition. I should note I run everything (besides Firefox) on arm build (vscode insiders is super glitchy but it's the price to pay for nightly builds).
- jfk13 6y ago
  Why not Firefox? The current release has native arm64 code, and AFAICT runs fine.
  - syntaxing 6y ago
    Whoa, I did not know about Firefox 84. I actually have it and it updated and I had no clue it was M1 native now. I was wondering why ublock origin started working again all of sudden.
    - kzrdude 6y ago
      Shouldn't ublock continue to work regardless? If it's web extensions, then the arch shouldn't matter (I must be missing something?)
    - lucasverra 6y ago
      aaand ? Does it run smoothly?
      - honzajavorek 6y ago
        It does!
- shepherdjerred 6y ago
  I'm in the same boat! I want to swap my 8GB mini for a 16GB mini, but there's a considerable delay before receiving it.
sdwvit 6y ago
Who is the author? I’m not familiar with this blog.
- honzajavorek 6y ago
  Hi, it's me.
  - sdwvit 6y ago
    Hi, i was looking for the info like in about section of your website.
    - jodrellblank 6y ago
      The stuff mentioned here? https://honzajavorek.cz/ https://honzajavorek.cz/
      - honzajavorek 6y ago
        Yeah :) Sorry, I tried to be funny. I write the blog for 15 years or so. More info about me is on that site mentioned.
- sdwvit 6y ago
  Lol why am I getting downvoted. It absolutely destroys any desire to interact on this forum.
drivingmenuts 6y ago
Apple is smart for soldering their RAM and making it non-upgradeable, but I don’t want to get screwed for not having the budget to buy a new machine every time I need more memory. I’ve probably purchased my last Mac.
- buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
  Just buy enough RAM upfront to last the life of the computer. By the time my 32gb of RAM in my Macbook isn't enough, the rest of the computer won't be enough either, and I'll buy a new one. I get that some people are ok with their 8 year old computers that run like garbage, despite their claims that "it still runs perfectly". But there is a huge segment of the market that are ok with upgrading their computer every 4 years, and don't need their RAM to be upgradable. I know this doesn't really help with the M1 Macs at the moment, but they are obviously going to release higher RAM models in the near future.
  - drivingmenuts 6y ago
    And then I will have spent double the money and then some vs buying just one and some memory later when I can afford it.
    - macintux 6y ago
      Except the resale value on Macs tends to be quite good relative to other platforms. And while you’re using your first you get the performance benefits of integrated memory. You’re obviously welcome to prioritize whatever makes you happiest, but Apple isn’t doing this just to sabotage its customers.
- Closi 6y ago
  Unfortunately the truth behind user-upgradable RAM is that very few users do it, particularly on laptops. It's also impossible to do if you are going down the system-on-chip route.
master_yoda_1 6y ago
Yeh I also pooped in the morning on my white porcelain toilet
tekstar 6y ago
What I find a bit wild is that the author was using a laptop newer than my late 2013 MacBook Pro, and said everything was sluggish. My maxed 2013 pro is still super fast, but it seems like all the USB-C MacBooks that came afterwards sacrificed performance for.. what, thickness?
- lmedinas 6y ago
  i guess it depends on what you call slow and what you get used to it. I have an iMac 27" 2012 and i barely can do anything with it.
- LockAndLol 6y ago
  I had a laptop running Linux from 2013 too and it was always snappy. The only reason I switched was because of how noisy the fans are. Work also gave me a 2015 Mac and now Linux is running on it. It's pretty fine and far from sluggish. No idea what the author is doing to have problems.
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    They had a 2015 12" MacBook (the one with no fan). This was essentially an Atom; they very much sacrificed speed for slowness. A contemporary Air would have been much faster.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  The 12" MacBook was a largely failed experiment at going finless. A cute concept, but pretty slow out the gate, let alone after 5 years.
- buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
  I have learned to stop trusting people who say their old computer is “super fast”. No, your computer from 2013 isn’t super fast. You’ve gotten used to the slowness.
  - wasdfff 6y ago
    I think there is something to be said about snappiness during basic tasks like web browsing. I had a 2012 macbook pro that had an ssd and memory upgrades, and functionally tooling around Mojave felt no different than a new computer; just as snappy and performant. You don’t always hit a point of strain with your device just doing basic tasks. Now if that 2012 macbook of mine connected to a zoom call on the other hand, then the computer would overheat to the point where the battery would swell and disable the keyboard until it cooled down.
mick_schroeder 6y ago
I usually try to avoid "first gen" Apple products. There usually seems to be a big jump in quality with the next iteration. Did that factor in your decision? do you think it is worth the wait for their 2nd try?
- kristianp 6y ago
  This generation there are no changes to the form factor to speak of. The 2nd gen might be where the hardware outside of the processor package changes, it could be a first gen of the new form factors for air and pro macbooks. With its own problems perhaps.
- TheCondor 6y ago
  I ordered a 16GB mini for the kids, it won't make it here by Christmas.... We just need it for the virtual schooling. Anyhow, I expect that ARM9 will be the hotness and this first generation will lose support a little more quickly and next years models. I guess it depends on ARM9 though.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  This is old physical hardware, and the CPU itself has been around in some form for a while (I don't think they've done a big micro architectural change since the A12 or so), so it's probably not as risky as usual.
- shepherdjerred 6y ago
  The next gen will almost certainly be better (faster, more efficient, etc.), but that's true of any computing product you buy. It's impossible to say if the next gen will be a giant leap where you'll feel bad for "wasting" money on the previous gen, or if it'll be just a small upgrade.
- honzajavorek 6y ago
  Hi, I'm the author. I didn't have much choice. Whatever older would be worse than M1 and whatever newer would be more expensive and I'd have to wait several more months with broken display to get it. I was really tired of waiting, working on the potato with ghosting display was like torture and I was counting days when the M1 was about to be delivered.
naboavida 6y ago
"Having TouchID as part of the computer is a nice surprise." my thought exactly (besides other aspects) about my 2019 Macbook Pro. Having to just press a "key" is a widely different experience compared to having to type yet-another password. Although... my mid-2017 OnePlus 5 smartphone is far more reliable and rapid than my laptop. Did aPPLe fillany braught back touhc IDz to a larger device but failed mizerably? I bet it was them different teams phenomenon.
nikolay 6y ago
People invent their own branding, i.e. "Apple Silicon". Apple calls it "Apple M1 Chip".
- wila 6y ago
  https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon :)
  - nikolay 6y ago
    That's not how the MacBook is called though. Here's the trade name: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch
    - macintux 6y ago
      M1 is an implementation of Apple Silicon. I’m really not sure what you’re trying to argue here.
      - nikolay 6y ago
        Show me the source of your statement coming from Apple! Apple says M1 is a SoC, i.e. it's a chip most of all. Calling it a "silicon" is like calling your credit card "plastic".
        macintux 6y ago
        I still don't know what you're disputing, so I'm not quite sure what to cite. The initial presentation announcing the transition this summer was replete with references to "Apple silicon". Here's the first press release about the new line of chips: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/06/apple-announces-mac-transition-to-apple-silicon/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/06/apple-announces-mac-t... Besides the fact that it's in the title, here's a snippet from the press release: > Apple today also introduced macOS Big Sur...includes technologies that will ensure a smooth and seamless transition to Apple silicon. Developers can easily convert their existing apps to run on Apple silicon... Including the title, the word "silicon" appears 16 times. 13 of those occurrences are part of the phrase "Apple silicon". Tim Cook: > Today we’re announcing our transition to Apple silicon
mhh__ 6y ago
Although I am obviously very impressed with Apple's new Silicon, is there a "I only buy Apple" effect here where people are basically impressed with their laptop being even feeling ridiculously fast because previous Apple products have generally been expensive and not particularly fast relative to the competition (i.e. I see people saying "Wow I can finally game on my laptop" and it's unthinkable staying in an ecosystem like that)?
- tbrock 6y ago
  There’s a big difference between gaming on a thick honking slab of a laptop and an ultra book.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  Few if any MBA-sized laptops are much use for gaming; if you want any sort of battery life at all you're largely stuck with Intel's uninspiring integrated options.
runjake 6y ago
There are a number of errors in this article. For example, the brew packages for Spotify and VS Code are not ARM-native. There's a beta for Spotify and VS Code floating around, but these instructions will not install it. But, my experience with M1 thus far says that this is probably a good scheme to run dual Homebrews. Better than the Soffe method.
- honzajavorek 6y ago
  Hi, I'm the author. Thanks for the correction. Do you know how to install the ARM-native ones, then? Or how does it work? I thought a brew installed as native would install native apps.
emptyparadise 6y ago
I hope native Linux happens for these someday.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zapataband1 6y ago
Same. I agree. I bought the 2019 as well and imo this is the first macbook PRO worth buying since the 2015 model.
- anchpop 6y ago
  I have the M1 Macbook Pro and I'm surprised by how quick the turnaround has been to get things running on ARM. I still haven't had to install the Rosetta translation layer thing, and I have Python, Node, Rust, Chrome, VScode, and all my other daily drivers running natively. It'll probably be a few months before the big guys like Photoshop or ZBrush are running natively, but still, I'm impressed that things are working at all
  - elliottkember 6y ago
    Yeah. I've just shipped my Electron app as a native ARM binary too thanks to some great work by the electron-builder team. And it absolutely flies.
tomcam 6y ago
> Apple allows you to buy a computer with more than 8 GB RAM, but I think it's just a trap how to satisfy and charge those who don't believe the reviews and just want more RAM whatever it takes. Just spitballing here, but I’m guessing the OP doesn’t spend much time using DAW sample libraries or editing video.
- honzajavorek 6y ago
  Hi, I'm the author. I don't know what DAW is and I don't spend time editing video. I made my first video in iMovie ever just a few days after I've got the M1 :)
  - tomcam 6y ago
    DAWs or digit audio workstations are for editing sound. In music, that can mean needing to load a 100G file into RAM to get a convincing orchestra or piano sample. So I have a MacPro I bought earlier this year with 384G RAM but... Thanks to blog posts like yours I am also buying a 16G M1 MacBook Pro for general purpose uses such as web development!
- dev_tty01 6y ago
  You are probably right. The problem is that it is all grey. Some people do work with large datasets that absolutely perform much better with larger RAM. Some people had bad experiences in the past with slow swap systems and now always believe they need more RAM. Some people look at monitor apps and see that programs allocated large virtual blocks (because they can) and assume they need more physical RAM. Some people had 16 GB systems in the past that they really didn't need and now run an M1 system with 8 GB and find that everything runs fine. What we need are concrete A/B tests. Two identical (other than RAM size) x86 systems running large data set memory hungry tasks that performs significantly better on a 16 GB system than a 8 GB system. Then the same tasks (running native ARM code) on 8 and 16 GB M1 systems with the identical OS version. Ideally a sequence of tests with varying memory demands. Tests like that would at least get in the ballpark of revealing if the M1 systems are somehow more capable with less memory. The rest is just anecdotal. I suspect that M1 systems might handle light swapping a bit more efficiently than the latest x86 systems, but tasks with truly large datasets will ultimately be limited by SSD access rates. Of course, that is just another useless opinion until reasonable test data is available.
cylim 6y ago
Lack of virtualization support is no longer valid. Docker and Parallels has preview version for it... :)
Schwolop 6y ago
Work bought me a new M1 Mac Pro with 16GB RAM and I’m not feeling the speed whatsoever. My dock causes repeatable crashes waking from sleep. Browsing feels slow and laggy, with things like the 1password add-on visibly loading in parts when opened. The only things I can think of are that it’s because I used the Migration Assistant to go from my old MacBook Air to this, or that I’ve somehow acquired a lemon. I’m going to try wiping it clean and starting fresh, but beyond that it’s in refund territory. I really want to be wrong about it, but I’m sceptical of the good press at this point given my own experience.
- jokull 6y ago
  Yeah wipe it. Mine is blazing fast and I started fresh.
jokull 6y ago
Replaced mbp 13" 2016 16gb with mba 8gb m1 and the difference is huge. Made me move to VS Code remote because homebrew is broken. Really digging it as a setup. Drives my LG 5k smoothly.

196 points by honzajavorek 6y ago

Awesome, I'm waiting on my new pro to get here, it's a huge upgrade from my 2016 butterfly that died on me. I wasn't sure which one to get but after upgrading the memory to 16GB the cost difference is pretty inconsequential between the two.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

s1k3s 6y ago

I want a no commentary, no sound, video of the M1 Mac usage. Like show me how it runs YouTube on Chrome for example. So tired of these reviews that don't show anything other than the opinion of some fellow that is either Apple-biased or doesn't cover my field of usage at all.

czzr 6y ago
This might work for you, if you turn the sound off: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UxSI45eeAts https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UxSI45eeAts
Closi 6y ago
What laptop are you on that struggles to play Youtube on Chrome?
- s1k3s 6y ago
  Nothing struggles. But the Intel 2020 Air is noticeably slower than the refurbished 2012 Linux Mint (and 2015 Windows) that I own. Disclaimer: I bought the Mac for building apps only.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    The M1 macs are the fastest web browsing machines you can buy, by a huge margin. If that's your use case, there's no question what machine to get. The closest you can come with mobile x86 is to get the top-of-the-line 11th Gen Core i7, and the M1 beats that thing by almost 100% in browser benchmarks.
    - Closi 6y ago
      Yep, or alternatively an iPad Air with a magic keyboard. (Ducks)
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        Not even wrong. There's hardly a difference between the latest iPad and the latest MacBook.
  - jen729w 6y ago
    Interesting that the blame here seems to sit with Apple. Aren’t we asking why Google, who owns the browser, can’t make YouTube, a video player, that they own, work in that browser on 2020 hardware? YouTube is a turd. I do everything I can to avoid using it. How they’ve screwed up a video player that badly boggles the mind.
    - s1k3s 6y ago
      Oh, I'm not blaming Apple for anything here. I actually love my Mac Air, for the things its really good at. I'm blaming the so-called YT influencers/content creators that lie to their audience.
    - 43920 6y ago
      Youtube is basically optimizing for their own costs over that of end users by using VP9, which uses less bandwidth but often is software-decoded. So the real answer is basically that they can, but it would cost them more. (Of course, the YouTube frontend is also fairly bloated, which doesn't help. There isn't much of an excuse for that one).
- xxpor 6y ago
  My 2016 HP Elitebook G3 does. model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6600U CPU @ 2.60GHz It doesn't have hw acceleration for VC1, so youtube specifically has a lot of issues. I've been able to rectify it by using h264ify to force youtube to give me h264 but a normie isn't going to be able to figure that out.
  - lostmsu 6y ago
    I have 6100U and it seems fine...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - fy20 6y ago
    I have the same processor in my ThinkPad T470s and it's terrible for anything video. Even a browser (Chrome and Firefox) tab in the background with a few CSS animations causes it to be noticeably unresponsive in other applications. It supports 4K output but my tests (backend TypeScript) are measurably slower when the display is at 4K vs 1440p. What OS are you using? I run Linux so I'm wondering if it's that, but I've tried every different DE and Xorg Vs Wayland and different drivers, and they are all just as bad.
ianai 6y ago
This kind of helps illustrate your point. It’s from the linked review titled “forget the performance the battery life will blow you away” https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/m1-dock.gif https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/m1-dock.gi...
turtlebits 6y ago
Not everything is going to cater to your needs. I was curious how homebrew works so this was interesting to me. Looks like I'm going to hold off for a bit. The title of the article/link could be a bit more descriptive though.
syntaxing 6y ago
What sort of usage are you looking at? I have a Mac mini M1 and MBA (Intel i7) that I can do some test on. Anecdata wise, my M1 runs noticeably faster than my MBA minus software incompatibility issues.
- s1k3s 6y ago
  If you record your screen for 10 minutes while doing common stuff like mail, web browsing etc, you've already beaten 99% of the tech review YT channels out there in terms of competence on reviewing something.
  - syntaxing 6y ago
    I wish this was true :/ But it was breaking people's webpage where the page won't load (including myself) and the menu you would normally when you click the icon on the bar was white.
tksb 6y ago
Is it the assumed bias or the lack of "coverage" that's most annoying? I see coverage but recognize the bias so I'm very genuinely curious what it is you're hoping for as far as reportage on bleeding edge Apple chips.
post_break 6y ago
I've got a 16GB ram macbook pro M1 I can show you maybe? Plugged into a 27" 1440p monitor in clamshell mode demolishing even my hackintosh at basic tasks.
christoph 6y ago
Switch the sound off and try this for how performant it is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKRDlkyILNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKRDlkyILNY Maybe not a real world use case, but in day to day use, it really does fly. Things I've noticed that are real world and noticeably quicker than my Intel MBP day to day - decompressing large archives (4gb+ ZIP files for instance), compressing folders with thousands of small files, opening very large XD & Photoshop files, etc. My MBP used to sound like jet engine when watching YouTube while doing multiple other things. I'm still yet to hear the fan spin up on this once.

ksml 6y ago

This is my first time hearing Apple refurbished meaning old store display model. I always thought refurbished machines were products that other people bought new and returned, and then Apple restored them to like-new condition. There seem to be a lot more refurbs available than I would imagine there are old display models. Now I'm curious, though, does anyone know more about how (Apple official) refurbs are sourced?

wtn 6y ago
He wrote "second hand, refurbished" so it's not entirely clear that it was Apple refurbished.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  I made the assumption that he meant refurbished by a third-party, not Apple, because it's pretty common for those sorts of secondhand machines to be refurbished with new screens. Figure they put in the cheapest screen they could source, and no wonder it's dying in 5 years. I doubt any OE screen from Apple would have the same problem he describes.
ncw96 6y ago
It is also my understanding that Apple refurbs are returned devices.
honzajavorek 6y ago
Hi, I'm the author. To be honest, I'm not sure how the refurbished thing works. That's why the whole paragraph is full of "I think" and "perhaps" and "my theory is". It's all just speculation. The shop where I bought it had it marked as refurbished, that's what I'm sure about, but I don't know what's the exact history of the machine. I've heard rumors those are computers from Apple Store etc., hence the speculation about worn out display, but I've never really investigated it further. Doesn't matter much now, whatever the reason, the display is dead.
threepio 6y ago
I have bought Apple refurbished machines. I always understood them to be more-or-less unused returns. IIRC Apple cannot legally advertise returned machines as "new", hence the "refurbished" designation. Moreover Apple has an essentially unlimited supply of machines. I can't imagine it would be worth it to actually take in machines and repair them (not least because it would undermine confidence in the refurb store if it was a gamble about whether you'd get a basically-new machine or beat-up machine.)

super_trooper 6y ago

Nice try, Apple

mesh 6y ago

-- I decided I don't need more RAM than 8 GB, because nobody from the first reviewers managed to give the RAM a hard time. It seemed to me it's a different beast altogether and it doesn't make sense to just compare numbers and say that more is better. Apple allows you to buy a computer with more than 8 GB RAM, but I think it's just a trap how to satisfy and charge those who don't believe the reviews and just want more RAM whatever it takes. -- I think the reason I would always buy more RAM is not because it needs it today, but because it may need it in 2 or 3 years, as app inevitably eat into the performance gains with bloat.

nojito 6y ago
This mentality is exactly why Apple charges such a high tax on RAM upgrades. The vast majority of people upgrading their RAM are doing so simply because they see a bigger number and not because they need it.
jcelerier 6y ago
I find that crazy. I bought a computer with 16gb of ram in 2011 and by 2015 I was hitting OOM left and right. I bought a mac mini with 32 GB in 2018 and I managed to OOM it a few times and oh boy was it ugly - already regret not taking the 64gb option at the time.
- rblatz 6y ago
  Agreed I’ve been 16gb+ for a decade now. He seems to have under-specced on ram and HD.
- qz2 6y ago
  I risked it on an 8gb mini and quite frankly i can’t bend it even if I try. Only thing it’ll probably die on is running VMs which I’m not going to do any more. They can live in DigitalOcean. One liner review: this is the only computer I’ve ever had which can keep up with me.
- JohnJamesRambo 6y ago
  > a mac mini with 32 GB in 2018 and I managed to OOM it a few times and oh boy was it ugly How?

ianai 6y ago

“ I also decided I want 512 GB drive, as I'm used to that size and I didn't want to downgrade” my 512gb MBA gets ~2800/2700 MBs read/write versus the standard benchmarks of ~2000. I’ve been curious for benchmarks of the higher capacities but haven’t found any. Seems capacity still increases performance like it did earlier generations with ssds.

sillysaurusx 6y ago

Bad idea to get 8GB instead of 16GB ram. It's +$200 for doubling your capacity for years to come. Anyone have an opinion on Mac Mini vs Air? the raw benchmarks seem to favor the M1 mac mini: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1331923535053299712 https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1331923535053299712 It takes 25m05s to compile webkit on a macbook air, but 19m32s on a Mac Mini. That's not-insignificant. And the Mini is several hundred cheaper than the Air too. Mobility seems like an issue, but an external keyboard + tiny monitor seems to solve that. Though using a backpack + monitor + keyboard + mac mini + uninterruptible power supply is ... well ... maybe not too practical. It's hard to decide.

jen729w 6y ago
> Mobility seems like an issue, but an external keyboard + tiny monitor seems to solve that. Though using a backpack + monitor + keyboard + mac mini + uninterruptible power supply is ... well ... maybe not too practical. It's hard to decide. Perhaps the most HN comment ever. :-) The Mini is great if it’s sitting under your desk. I’ve had one running for 10 years now. OS updates stopped last year but for what I use it for, it’s a champion. But c’mon, the idea of schlepping it around with a portable tiny monitor is madness. Think of the time you save in build time and how badly it’s offset by the setup time for the Mini + all the gear every time you get a place. Get the Air.
qz2 6y ago
I’m using an ass end M1 mini with a 27” 4K Iiyama monitor, an Apple magic touchpad and Durgod K320 keyboard. It’s my favourite computer set up so far in all the years I’ve been doing this. I don’t want another back and neck killing laptop in my life in my 40s if I’m honest. This is also not my first ARM desktop. I had an Acorn A420 a very long time ago.
oops 6y ago
The M1 MBP does it in in 20m43s[1]. It's more expensive -- or maybe not after you add all those peripherals to your Mini -- and think of what you'll save in chiropractor bills! 1: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/17/apple-silicon-m1-compiles-code-as-fast-as-mac-pro/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/17/apple-silicon-m1-compil...

Apocryphon 6y ago

> Spotify, Slack, Discord, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, all the annoying bloated websites, which I used to hate so much for the past months, now run like if they were the most optimized websites on the internet. This is just going to encourage bloat and inefficiency, isn't it? Note: this has nothing to do with specifically Apple Silicon but just any computing improvements in general.

0xCMP 6y ago
Yes, but that's pretty much how it goes. Jonathan Blow had a rant on release of the M1 Macs saying it literally didn't matter because computers were already really fast and the problem has been, and will continue to be, that if the processor/system is faster then software will be written slower to hit the magical response time expected. Kind of a cynical take... but is he wrong?
- pushrax 6y ago
  Carmack famously also has declared "I would rather have magic software over magic hardware" - the context being that we're using current hardware to a small fraction of its potential. Still, I feel there's a lot of software I use that is hard to optimize or no longer developed, and I'm certainly happy to have it run faster given new hardware. As a programmer I also like being able to be lazier and still have usable software. Higher level languages, GC, less thinking about access patterns and debugging prefetch problems, etc.
- ATsch 6y ago
  Given it's Jonathan Blow, I feel compelled to say yes. More seriously, while program overheads have undoubtedly gotten higher, that's always been in exchange for something else, even if non-technical, like a better developer experience and platform support. Nobody writes slow programs on purpose, but people are very willing to trade it off for things that are more important in the grand scheme of things. Low level programmers love to smugly pretend that those tradeoffs do not exist but they do.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

wapxmas 6y ago

The most interesting part about an M1 architecture is an absence of any fan. But, still, from a back-end developer point of view, the one has to wait at least 3-6 months for the software to embrace an M1 chip.

vimy 6y ago
There's no need to wait. Rosetta is doing a fine job running x86 apps. Some apps run even faster than on intel.
threeseed 6y ago
There is a fan on the Mac mini and MacBook Pro. From benchmarks it only kicks in after like 10 minutes of sustained heavy usage e.g. rendering.
- zimpenfish 6y ago
  M1 MBP fan comes on pretty quick if you run something like wireguard-vanity-address which will use all 8 cores at full whack. Other than that, it rarely comes on for me.
macintux 6y ago
Given the rate at which software is being ported, I think 3-6 months is very pessimistic for most applications.

onli 6y ago

> Given the little chance Intel or anyone else is going to keep up with this new level of performance, I believe this new laptop could be with me perhaps even longer, unless everyone else in the world buys it and developers start to create 10x bloated apps compared to today. That's naive and wrong. The M1 seems to be an excellent processor with good performance. It's not worlds better than a Ryzen 5 5600X or its mobile variant. > I decided I don't need more RAM than 8 GB, because nobody from the first reviewers managed to give the RAM a hard time. It seemed to me it's a different beast altogether and it doesn't make sense to just compare numbers and say that more is better. The processor is not a magical thing that changes how much memory is needed for workloads. When the first reviewers did not look at your workload it's meaningless that they did not complain. Your memory requirements completely depend on your workload. It's quite possible you do not use more than 8GB, but I had IDEs and GIMP use more than that. And it's of course (it's Apple) not upgradeable, 8GB will not be enough if your usage changes, and then that laptop will just be expensive garbage for you.

threeseed 6y ago
> It's not worlds better than a Ryzen 5 5600X or its mobile variant Maybe if you're solely focused on performance. But the other reason why M1 is so ground breaking is because it offers this performance with ~2x the battery life and minimal cooling compared to its competitors.
- neogodless 6y ago
  I think everyone is aware of the battery life / minimal heat dissipation of the Apple Silicon processor. The grandparent comment was specifically quoting and refuting this line: > Given the little chance Intel or anyone else is going to keep up with this new level of performance
  - zepto 6y ago
    That line is strictly true in a thermally constrained machine such as a laptop.

syntaxing 6y ago

I have a Mac mini M1. I’m leaning towards returning it and getting a 16GB but the 16GB had the longest delivery time. Interestingly enough, I do run some “heavy loading” stuff and I just scratch 6GB or so. I am curious what the longevity issues are with the large swap partition. I should note I run everything (besides Firefox) on arm build (vscode insiders is super glitchy but it's the price to pay for nightly builds).

jfk13 6y ago
Why not Firefox? The current release has native arm64 code, and AFAICT runs fine.
- syntaxing 6y ago
  Whoa, I did not know about Firefox 84. I actually have it and it updated and I had no clue it was M1 native now. I was wondering why ublock origin started working again all of sudden.
  - kzrdude 6y ago
    Shouldn't ublock continue to work regardless? If it's web extensions, then the arch shouldn't matter (I must be missing something?)
  - lucasverra 6y ago
    aaand ? Does it run smoothly?
    - honzajavorek 6y ago
      It does!
shepherdjerred 6y ago
I'm in the same boat! I want to swap my 8GB mini for a 16GB mini, but there's a considerable delay before receiving it.

sdwvit 6y ago

Who is the author? I’m not familiar with this blog.

honzajavorek 6y ago
Hi, it's me.
- sdwvit 6y ago
  Hi, i was looking for the info like in about section of your website.
  - jodrellblank 6y ago
    The stuff mentioned here? https://honzajavorek.cz/ https://honzajavorek.cz/
    - honzajavorek 6y ago
      Yeah :) Sorry, I tried to be funny. I write the blog for 15 years or so. More info about me is on that site mentioned.
sdwvit 6y ago
Lol why am I getting downvoted. It absolutely destroys any desire to interact on this forum.

drivingmenuts 6y ago

Apple is smart for soldering their RAM and making it non-upgradeable, but I don’t want to get screwed for not having the budget to buy a new machine every time I need more memory. I’ve probably purchased my last Mac.

buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
Just buy enough RAM upfront to last the life of the computer. By the time my 32gb of RAM in my Macbook isn't enough, the rest of the computer won't be enough either, and I'll buy a new one. I get that some people are ok with their 8 year old computers that run like garbage, despite their claims that "it still runs perfectly". But there is a huge segment of the market that are ok with upgrading their computer every 4 years, and don't need their RAM to be upgradable. I know this doesn't really help with the M1 Macs at the moment, but they are obviously going to release higher RAM models in the near future.
- drivingmenuts 6y ago
  And then I will have spent double the money and then some vs buying just one and some memory later when I can afford it.
  - macintux 6y ago
    Except the resale value on Macs tends to be quite good relative to other platforms. And while you’re using your first you get the performance benefits of integrated memory. You’re obviously welcome to prioritize whatever makes you happiest, but Apple isn’t doing this just to sabotage its customers.
Closi 6y ago
Unfortunately the truth behind user-upgradable RAM is that very few users do it, particularly on laptops. It's also impossible to do if you are going down the system-on-chip route.

master_yoda_1 6y ago

Yeh I also pooped in the morning on my white porcelain toilet

tekstar 6y ago

What I find a bit wild is that the author was using a laptop newer than my late 2013 MacBook Pro, and said everything was sluggish. My maxed 2013 pro is still super fast, but it seems like all the USB-C MacBooks that came afterwards sacrificed performance for.. what, thickness?

lmedinas 6y ago
i guess it depends on what you call slow and what you get used to it. I have an iMac 27" 2012 and i barely can do anything with it.
LockAndLol 6y ago
I had a laptop running Linux from 2013 too and it was always snappy. The only reason I switched was because of how noisy the fans are. Work also gave me a 2015 Mac and now Linux is running on it. It's pretty fine and far from sluggish. No idea what the author is doing to have problems.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  They had a 2015 12" MacBook (the one with no fan). This was essentially an Atom; they very much sacrificed speed for slowness. A contemporary Air would have been much faster.
ogre_codes 6y ago
The 12" MacBook was a largely failed experiment at going finless. A cute concept, but pretty slow out the gate, let alone after 5 years.
buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
I have learned to stop trusting people who say their old computer is “super fast”. No, your computer from 2013 isn’t super fast. You’ve gotten used to the slowness.
- wasdfff 6y ago
  I think there is something to be said about snappiness during basic tasks like web browsing. I had a 2012 macbook pro that had an ssd and memory upgrades, and functionally tooling around Mojave felt no different than a new computer; just as snappy and performant. You don’t always hit a point of strain with your device just doing basic tasks. Now if that 2012 macbook of mine connected to a zoom call on the other hand, then the computer would overheat to the point where the battery would swell and disable the keyboard until it cooled down.

mick_schroeder 6y ago

I usually try to avoid "first gen" Apple products. There usually seems to be a big jump in quality with the next iteration. Did that factor in your decision? do you think it is worth the wait for their 2nd try?

kristianp 6y ago
This generation there are no changes to the form factor to speak of. The 2nd gen might be where the hardware outside of the processor package changes, it could be a first gen of the new form factors for air and pro macbooks. With its own problems perhaps.
TheCondor 6y ago
I ordered a 16GB mini for the kids, it won't make it here by Christmas.... We just need it for the virtual schooling. Anyhow, I expect that ARM9 will be the hotness and this first generation will lose support a little more quickly and next years models. I guess it depends on ARM9 though.
rsynnott 6y ago
This is old physical hardware, and the CPU itself has been around in some form for a while (I don't think they've done a big micro architectural change since the A12 or so), so it's probably not as risky as usual.
shepherdjerred 6y ago
The next gen will almost certainly be better (faster, more efficient, etc.), but that's true of any computing product you buy. It's impossible to say if the next gen will be a giant leap where you'll feel bad for "wasting" money on the previous gen, or if it'll be just a small upgrade.
honzajavorek 6y ago
Hi, I'm the author. I didn't have much choice. Whatever older would be worse than M1 and whatever newer would be more expensive and I'd have to wait several more months with broken display to get it. I was really tired of waiting, working on the potato with ghosting display was like torture and I was counting days when the M1 was about to be delivered.

naboavida 6y ago

"Having TouchID as part of the computer is a nice surprise." my thought exactly (besides other aspects) about my 2019 Macbook Pro. Having to just press a "key" is a widely different experience compared to having to type yet-another password. Although... my mid-2017 OnePlus 5 smartphone is far more reliable and rapid than my laptop. Did aPPLe fillany braught back touhc IDz to a larger device but failed mizerably? I bet it was them different teams phenomenon.

nikolay 6y ago

People invent their own branding, i.e. "Apple Silicon". Apple calls it "Apple M1 Chip".

wila 6y ago
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon :)
- nikolay 6y ago
  That's not how the MacBook is called though. Here's the trade name: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch
  - macintux 6y ago
    M1 is an implementation of Apple Silicon. I’m really not sure what you’re trying to argue here.
    - nikolay 6y ago
      Show me the source of your statement coming from Apple! Apple says M1 is a SoC, i.e. it's a chip most of all. Calling it a "silicon" is like calling your credit card "plastic".
      - macintux 6y ago
        I still don't know what you're disputing, so I'm not quite sure what to cite. The initial presentation announcing the transition this summer was replete with references to "Apple silicon". Here's the first press release about the new line of chips: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/06/apple-announces-mac-transition-to-apple-silicon/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/06/apple-announces-mac-t... Besides the fact that it's in the title, here's a snippet from the press release: > Apple today also introduced macOS Big Sur...includes technologies that will ensure a smooth and seamless transition to Apple silicon. Developers can easily convert their existing apps to run on Apple silicon... Including the title, the word "silicon" appears 16 times. 13 of those occurrences are part of the phrase "Apple silicon". Tim Cook: > Today we’re announcing our transition to Apple silicon

mhh__ 6y ago

Although I am obviously very impressed with Apple's new Silicon, is there a "I only buy Apple" effect here where people are basically impressed with their laptop being even feeling ridiculously fast because previous Apple products have generally been expensive and not particularly fast relative to the competition (i.e. I see people saying "Wow I can finally game on my laptop" and it's unthinkable staying in an ecosystem like that)?

tbrock 6y ago
There’s a big difference between gaming on a thick honking slab of a laptop and an ultra book.
rsynnott 6y ago
Few if any MBA-sized laptops are much use for gaming; if you want any sort of battery life at all you're largely stuck with Intel's uninspiring integrated options.

runjake 6y ago

There are a number of errors in this article. For example, the brew packages for Spotify and VS Code are not ARM-native. There's a beta for Spotify and VS Code floating around, but these instructions will not install it. But, my experience with M1 thus far says that this is probably a good scheme to run dual Homebrews. Better than the Soffe method.

honzajavorek 6y ago
Hi, I'm the author. Thanks for the correction. Do you know how to install the ARM-native ones, then? Or how does it work? I thought a brew installed as native would install native apps.

emptyparadise 6y ago

I hope native Linux happens for these someday.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

zapataband1 6y ago

Same. I agree. I bought the 2019 as well and imo this is the first macbook PRO worth buying since the 2015 model.

anchpop 6y ago
I have the M1 Macbook Pro and I'm surprised by how quick the turnaround has been to get things running on ARM. I still haven't had to install the Rosetta translation layer thing, and I have Python, Node, Rust, Chrome, VScode, and all my other daily drivers running natively. It'll probably be a few months before the big guys like Photoshop or ZBrush are running natively, but still, I'm impressed that things are working at all
- elliottkember 6y ago
  Yeah. I've just shipped my Electron app as a native ARM binary too thanks to some great work by the electron-builder team. And it absolutely flies.

tomcam 6y ago

> Apple allows you to buy a computer with more than 8 GB RAM, but I think it's just a trap how to satisfy and charge those who don't believe the reviews and just want more RAM whatever it takes. Just spitballing here, but I’m guessing the OP doesn’t spend much time using DAW sample libraries or editing video.

honzajavorek 6y ago
Hi, I'm the author. I don't know what DAW is and I don't spend time editing video. I made my first video in iMovie ever just a few days after I've got the M1 :)
- tomcam 6y ago
  DAWs or digit audio workstations are for editing sound. In music, that can mean needing to load a 100G file into RAM to get a convincing orchestra or piano sample. So I have a MacPro I bought earlier this year with 384G RAM but... Thanks to blog posts like yours I am also buying a 16G M1 MacBook Pro for general purpose uses such as web development!
dev_tty01 6y ago
You are probably right. The problem is that it is all grey. Some people do work with large datasets that absolutely perform much better with larger RAM. Some people had bad experiences in the past with slow swap systems and now always believe they need more RAM. Some people look at monitor apps and see that programs allocated large virtual blocks (because they can) and assume they need more physical RAM. Some people had 16 GB systems in the past that they really didn't need and now run an M1 system with 8 GB and find that everything runs fine. What we need are concrete A/B tests. Two identical (other than RAM size) x86 systems running large data set memory hungry tasks that performs significantly better on a 16 GB system than a 8 GB system. Then the same tasks (running native ARM code) on 8 and 16 GB M1 systems with the identical OS version. Ideally a sequence of tests with varying memory demands. Tests like that would at least get in the ballpark of revealing if the M1 systems are somehow more capable with less memory. The rest is just anecdotal. I suspect that M1 systems might handle light swapping a bit more efficiently than the latest x86 systems, but tasks with truly large datasets will ultimately be limited by SSD access rates. Of course, that is just another useless opinion until reasonable test data is available.

cylim 6y ago

Lack of virtualization support is no longer valid. Docker and Parallels has preview version for it... :)

Schwolop 6y ago

Work bought me a new M1 Mac Pro with 16GB RAM and I’m not feeling the speed whatsoever. My dock causes repeatable crashes waking from sleep. Browsing feels slow and laggy, with things like the 1password add-on visibly loading in parts when opened. The only things I can think of are that it’s because I used the Migration Assistant to go from my old MacBook Air to this, or that I’ve somehow acquired a lemon. I’m going to try wiping it clean and starting fresh, but beyond that it’s in refund territory. I really want to be wrong about it, but I’m sceptical of the good press at this point given my own experience.

jokull 6y ago
Yeah wipe it. Mine is blazing fast and I started fresh.

jokull 6y ago

Replaced mbp 13" 2016 16gb with mba 8gb m1 and the difference is huge. Made me move to VS Code remote because homebrew is broken. Really digging it as a setup. Drives my LG 5k smoothly.