10 ms·

Anti-Pasta: When Italian Futurists Tried to Ban Pasta in Italy

112 points by prismatic 6y ago

dsohn0 6y ago
"Futurism’s ties to fascism are not a thing to brush off lightly, but it’s also important to remember that Marinetti believed it was the artist’s duty to put forward a bold public personae. He lived to ruffle feathers." Jesus christ what an abominable thing to write. Let me say something shouldn't be brushed off lightly while brushing it off lightly. Clueless.
- alxlaz 6y ago
  > Let me say something shouldn't be brushed off lightly while brushing it off lightly. Clueless. Marinetti was literally a member of the Fascist movement -- not "had ties with it", he was a legit, card-carrying member of the Italian Fascist Party, which he joined when the party he founded, the Futurist Political Party, merged with Mussolini's Fasci Italiani di Combattimento. He was one of the more notorious of Mussolini's supporters early on, and he literally wrote a book called Futurismo e Fascismo ("Futurism and Fascism") -- guess what that book was about. They didn't quite get along but Marinetti, like most Italian Futurists, remained a keen fascist supporter throughout his life.
- LeonB 6y ago
  Agreed. “Ruffling feathers” is an alarming depiction of Fascists.
  - gattilorenz 6y ago
    I think the claim is that futurists lived to ruffle feathers, not fascists. Which doesn't seem an euphemism to me.
    - LeonB 6y ago
      I think the claim is that futurists lived to ruffle feathers and that their fascism is an example of this. Thus fascism is placed in the class of things that “ruffle feathers”. Where is that an inaccurate interpretation?
YetAnotherNick 6y ago
In HN, having (1930) in title implies this article was published in 1930.
- grawprog 6y ago
  Maybe something like 1930: When Italian Futurists Declared War on Pasta? I have to admit, I was also expecting an article from 1930 being used to hn. Though still an interesting article or at least i'd never heard about any of this before anyway.
- dang 6y ago
  That's true. I've cut it.
asveikau 6y ago
> the popular 21st-century view that heavy pasta meals leave diners feeling equally heavy and lethargic. Pasta gets a bad rap unfairly, I think. A few years ago over the course of ~18 months, I lost 100 lbs. I ate pasta almost every day when I did this. One problem, particularly in the US, is that portion sizes are so large. This affects much more than just pasta. But in the American mind, a serving of pasta is often easily 3x what it should be. A small plate of pasta, maybe pancetta, some cheese and an egg? Filling, but also can be light.
- camillomiller 6y ago
  As an Italian, my experience is that I can’t have any satisfaction with less than 180g of pasta. Therefore I only eat it like once a week and make it a little event. Growing up I had similar portions almost on a daily basis and I was never overweight. Trick: do sports. A lot.
  - enriquto 6y ago
    If you put a lot of fat in your pasta (e.g., guanciale) then you get filled with a much smaller serving, like 100g.
    - eznzt 6y ago
      Your mention of guanciale reminded me of this delicious video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AAdKl1UYZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AAdKl1UYZs The serving seems gigantic though.
      - enriquto 6y ago
        Cool video! It's very easy to do (provided you have the ingredients). The serving in the video seems to be for 3 people. It's a really greasy dish, there's no way you can eat all of that alone.
        wayvey 6y ago
jeromenerf 6y ago
I love these events that makes food, cuisine and gastronomy political. In France, cuisine critics Gault et Millau attacked the fat, slow cooked, sauce heavy French cuisine for the same reason, opening the way for the new French cuisine "chefs". Pleasures of the senses over satiety. Earlier, Etienne Auguste Parmentier used elaborate tactics to have the potato accepted by the population, from fake guards around the fields and pamphlets against the various roots people used to eat when low on wheat. During the French Revolution, cuisine was also purged from its aristocratic attributes, prohibiting the unnecessary complexities. Maybe inspired by the Protestant reform culinary ethos where food should be fresh, humble and roborative. Nice stories.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > from fake guards around the fields Is there any actual proof of this? The same story has been told about Frederick the Great, and I always assumed it was an urban legend.
  - jeromenerf 6y ago
    It could be a myth, and still contribute to the "legend".
corty 6y ago
> And pasta is anti-virile because a heavy, bloated stomach does not encourage physical enthusiasm for a woman, nor favour the possibility of possessing her at any time. This might be time-appropriate for 1930, but leaving that drivel uncommented perpetuates the oppression and violence immanent in it.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Well, this is diet advice from Italian Fascists.
  - thinkingemote 6y ago
    The German fascists had very strong health and diet advice too. Turns out that because exercise was recommended by the Nazis, a good anti fascist shouldn't do anything strenuous. /S
  - ummonk 6y ago
    Well, without seeing the original Italian, it's hard to know whether "possessing her" is a faithful translation of how it termed having sex.
    - ummonk 6y ago
      Ah, found it: "E la pastasciutta è antivirile perchè lo stomaco appesantito ed ingombro non è mai favorevole all’entusiasmo fisico per la donna e alla possibilità di possederla dirittamente." So it's indeed saying "possessing her", though a more idiomatic translation would probably be to say "taking her", since "possess" is rarely used as a term for sex at least in modern English.
- hombre_fatal 6y ago
  The whole article is the comment. You're suggesting there exists someone who might read this interesting morsel of history and walk away, convinced by the excerpts, with anti-pasta views accompanied by a superstition that has them avoiding Italian cuisine on their first date unless warned otherwise. Seems quite far-fetched. Though who are we to stop such a gentleman from sparing a woman some indigestion after reading a 1930s dating tip?
Saint_Genet 6y ago
The writer Huw Lemmey wrote a really interesting essay on Fascism vs. Pasta a while ago: https://huw.substack.com/p/spaghetti-al-fascismo https://huw.substack.com/p/spaghetti-al-fascismo
scottlocklin 6y ago
Futurists were the most punk rock artistic movement before punk rock happened in the 70s. They even invented Industrial noise before Throbbing Gristle with Russolo's "Art of Noises" and orchestra of noise makers. The interesting thing about them is while they enjoyed shocking people and beating up their artistic rivals, they weren't nihilists like punks were: they were punk rock for technological progress rather than sticking bolts through their noses in defiance of de-industrialization. "Pasta is a cruel and brutalizing food that makes you lazy and sentimental."
- telesilla 6y ago
  They were also the first to notice, in writing in any case, that the world around them now sounded of machines so why not use that in music? Much like, our lives are increasing electronic, and so is so much now of the music we listen to. We truly reflect the world around us in our creative expressions.
- user-the-name 6y ago
  Futurists, though, were by and large fascists. Punk is strong anti-fascist.
  - 1_player 6y ago
    A punk-like movement is a product of its time and opposed to the status quo. Modern punk and Futurism are a similar idea borne out of a very different substrate. Of course it's easy in retrospect to note that (Italian) fascists and Futurist groups did cross paths during their ascent, but that does not mean that Futurism was fascist in its philosophy.
    - Pulcinella 6y ago
      This is ahistorical. Marinetti‘s futurism was extremely fascist. His Futurist party merged with the Fascist party. He wrote the Futurist manifesto and co-wrote the Fascist manifesto. The Futurist manifesto has “gems” such as: “We want to glorify war - the only cure for the world - militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of the anarchists, the beautiful ideas which kill, and contempt for woman.”
arnejenssen 6y ago
I recently used the Libre Sense continuous glucose sensor as an experiment (I don't have diabetes). I noticed that after eating pasta, my blood sugar stayed elevated for 4-5 hours. It looks like calling pasta and bread "slow carbs" is appropriate. One of my conclusions from the experiment is that I will probably never buy wheat again (but I'll eat it if I get it served).
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  > I noticed that after eating pasta, my blood sugar stayed elevated for 4-5 hours. But how long your blood sugar stayed high after eating "fast carbs"?
  - arnejenssen 6y ago
    My meals without slow carbs usually had a "rounded" elevation that last for about 1 hour and converges do my baseline after about 3 hours. I never tried only carbs/fruits in a meal. I always add fat and some protein. I should try it for my next experiment. The glucose response also appears to be affected by physical activity before or after a meal. You can "walk-off" a heavy meal.
    - jmnicolas 6y ago
      Thanks!
- ummonk 6y ago
  Do you mean that in a negative way? A food with carbs that release over 4-5 hours seems ideal for lunch.
  - arnejenssen 6y ago
    Practitioners of intermittent fasting and keto diet claim we have more mental clarity when we are in ketosis. During the experiment I made a homemade pizza with about 300 g of flour. After eating it I experienced brain-fog and I was not able to focus on reading a book that evening.
b0rsuk 6y ago
Popularity of pasta in Italy is part of nation's accumulated wisdom. Pasta is popular simply because it _works_. It gradually releases water over time. This makes it very popular among marathon runners for example. Pasta's dietary properties make it very popular in notoriously sunny Italy, where activity slows down during midday.
- nvrGiveUp 6y ago
  I think rice is the opposite. I had a coworker say that since rice absorbs water, it can also do this during digestion. I noticed a similar effect when I was drinking too much. I would only be hungover after having rice. And to clarify a point, it was fried rice that cooled, meaning it wasn't watery.
emmelaich 6y ago
Note: the paper on the benefits of a Mediterranean diet is the mostly highly cited of retractionwatch's papers. https://retractionwatch.com/the-retraction-watch-leaderboard/top-10-most-highly-cited-retracted-papers/ https://retractionwatch.com/the-retraction-watch-leaderboard...
- andrewl 6y ago
  It's worth noting that it wasn't a 100% dismissal of the findings. From Retraction Watch: But the findings haven’t disappeared — the authors have replaced the paper with a new version, which softens its earlier claims. https://retractionwatch.com/2018/06/13/does-the-mediterranean-diet-prevent-heart-attacks-nejm-retracts-and-replaces-high-profile-paper/ https://retractionwatch.com/2018/06/13/does-the-mediterranea...
sleepysysadmin 6y ago
Everything dates back to post-ww2. One of the key people was Ancel Keys. He falsified data and excluded significant data from his studies in order to push a narrative that saturated fats were bad for you. That eating plants was the only healthy way forward. Then the governments around the world pushed out their food pyramids that reinforced this idea. We then had obvious paradoxes where in neighbours like France and Italy were the complete opposite reality. France with high fat had very low coronary heart disease and Italy which was low fat had high coronary heart disease. There was no paradox, the science was fraudulent. Over the last several decades they have debunked and disproven this several times. The fix for bad science is better science. this is over. We know all the health risks are from carbohydrates. This has been a fact for decades. Yet we sit here and grocery stores are 90% carbs. If we eliminate carbs from society, the food industry collapses >90%. Millions upon millions of jobs are headed to unemployment. worse yet, the majority of these people have no other skills. We as a society basically cannot afford to stop eating carbs. Nobody will be cutting carbs out of their diet.
- jessermeyer 6y ago
  >Over the last several decades they have debunked and disproven this several times. Citations please.
  - sleepysysadmin 6y ago
    >Citations please. 1969: Dietary sugar and coronary heart disease J Yudkin 1973: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/26/5/524/4816008?redirectedFrom=PDF https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/26/5/524/4816... 1977: "Diet-Heart: End of an Era" Mann George V 2002: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.0000019552.77778.04 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.0000019552.77... 2009: Sugar: The Bitter Truth, Robert Lustig (MD, PhD) There's significant studies done in the last 10 years. We know for a fact that carbs/sugar are the problem. Virtually all diabetes associations now push low carb diets. I suspect these citations will mean nothing, I'm down around -10 for this post. Like I said, going to be huge amounts of resistance to this one.
amelius 6y ago
Isn't pasta just noodles with different marketing?
- HenryKissinger 6y ago
  Nobody will eat noodles in the 22nd century. We will feed on biomechanical components and pure concentrated energy. The future is now. #DownWithPasta
- wlll 6y ago
  Noodle is apparently: "late 18th century: from German Nudel, of unknown origin." (Google) However: "Although popular legend claims Marco Polo introduced pasta to Italy following his exploration of the Far East in the late 13th century, pasta can be traced back as far as the 4th century B.C., where an Etruscan tomb showed a group of natives making what appears to be pasta." (wikipedia) Personally I've never referred to Spaghetti as noodles, and noodles to me means long thin things you put in stir-fry/ramen. Plus, there's many other shapes of pasta other than "noodle" shaped.
- Symmetry 6y ago
  Penne is pasta but not a noodle. Rice noodles aren't pasta. Pasta refers to the substance the food is made from, not its form.
jariel 6y ago
Consider the weird lunacy of these folks - fine on the fringes, but very dangerous when let lose with raw ideas on civilisation. Now consider that since probably the early 19th century this has always been happening. Finally, consider that it's happening 'right now' - so which of the 'futurists' today are out to lunch, quite obviously so, we're just to 'caught up' to see it that way?
zabzonk 6y ago
Sophia Loren: “Everything you see I owe to spaghetti.” https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8968-everything-you-see-i-owe-to-spaghetti https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8968-everything-you-see-i-o...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zzzeek 6y ago
"Pasta, he said, was a “passéist food” that “[deluded people] into thinking it [was] nutritious” and made them “heavy, brutish,” “skeptical, slow, [and] pessimistic.” " all very (subjectively) true. As a pasta fanatic I try to eat Kamut pasta as often as possible as it leaves much less of a lethargic and carby aftermath.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Spoke against the world's number one favorite food? And lost? Imagine that.
hypertexthero 6y ago
If buying (hard) pasta in the US make sure to look at the ingredients on the package and only buy pasta that lists only two ingredients: semolina and water. Not sure why so many other ingredients are added here. The pasta with only semolina and water tastes much better. Also make sure to cook it al dente, not al mush: https://www.simongriffee.com/pastaclock/ https://www.simongriffee.com/pastaclock/
- wahern 6y ago
  You probably know that salt is often fortified with iodine. Quite a lot of other basic foodstuffs, including bread, rice, and pasta, are fortified with folic acid, iron, niacin, etc. It's a largely forgotten program of the USDA that has been wildly popular in reducing the incidence of nutritional diseases. I presume that's what you're referring to, because I just looked at the ingredients on the spaghetti boxes of the two most popular brands of pasta in the U.S., Barilla and Mueller's, and they only list wheat--semolina & durham, and durham, respectively. But they're both also fortified, with Mueller including that in the list of ingredients, and Barilla listing them separately as vitamins/minerals. I understand it's de rigour to eat "pure" foods, but it's actually led to reduced intake of important nutrients in the wider population. For example, until very recently iodine wasn't included in prenatal vitamins because for much of the past century most people used fortified salt. But with the increased use of kosher salt in home kitchens, medical advice not to add too much salt when cooking, and the fact that prepackaged foods don't contain iodized salt, iodine intake began to drop in the United States and UK.

112 points by prismatic 6y ago

"Futurism’s ties to fascism are not a thing to brush off lightly, but it’s also important to remember that Marinetti believed it was the artist’s duty to put forward a bold public personae. He lived to ruffle feathers." Jesus christ what an abominable thing to write. Let me say something shouldn't be brushed off lightly while brushing it off lightly. Clueless.

alxlaz 6y ago
> Let me say something shouldn't be brushed off lightly while brushing it off lightly. Clueless. Marinetti was literally a member of the Fascist movement -- not "had ties with it", he was a legit, card-carrying member of the Italian Fascist Party, which he joined when the party he founded, the Futurist Political Party, merged with Mussolini's Fasci Italiani di Combattimento. He was one of the more notorious of Mussolini's supporters early on, and he literally wrote a book called Futurismo e Fascismo ("Futurism and Fascism") -- guess what that book was about. They didn't quite get along but Marinetti, like most Italian Futurists, remained a keen fascist supporter throughout his life.
LeonB 6y ago
Agreed. “Ruffling feathers” is an alarming depiction of Fascists.
- gattilorenz 6y ago
  I think the claim is that futurists lived to ruffle feathers, not fascists. Which doesn't seem an euphemism to me.
  - LeonB 6y ago
    I think the claim is that futurists lived to ruffle feathers and that their fascism is an example of this. Thus fascism is placed in the class of things that “ruffle feathers”. Where is that an inaccurate interpretation?

YetAnotherNick 6y ago

In HN, having (1930) in title implies this article was published in 1930.

grawprog 6y ago
Maybe something like 1930: When Italian Futurists Declared War on Pasta? I have to admit, I was also expecting an article from 1930 being used to hn. Though still an interesting article or at least i'd never heard about any of this before anyway.
dang 6y ago
That's true. I've cut it.

asveikau 6y ago

> the popular 21st-century view that heavy pasta meals leave diners feeling equally heavy and lethargic. Pasta gets a bad rap unfairly, I think. A few years ago over the course of ~18 months, I lost 100 lbs. I ate pasta almost every day when I did this. One problem, particularly in the US, is that portion sizes are so large. This affects much more than just pasta. But in the American mind, a serving of pasta is often easily 3x what it should be. A small plate of pasta, maybe pancetta, some cheese and an egg? Filling, but also can be light.

camillomiller 6y ago
As an Italian, my experience is that I can’t have any satisfaction with less than 180g of pasta. Therefore I only eat it like once a week and make it a little event. Growing up I had similar portions almost on a daily basis and I was never overweight. Trick: do sports. A lot.
- enriquto 6y ago
  If you put a lot of fat in your pasta (e.g., guanciale) then you get filled with a much smaller serving, like 100g.
  - eznzt 6y ago
    Your mention of guanciale reminded me of this delicious video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AAdKl1UYZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AAdKl1UYZs The serving seems gigantic though.
    - enriquto 6y ago
      Cool video! It's very easy to do (provided you have the ingredients). The serving in the video seems to be for 3 people. It's a really greasy dish, there's no way you can eat all of that alone.
      - wayvey 6y ago

jeromenerf 6y ago

I love these events that makes food, cuisine and gastronomy political. In France, cuisine critics Gault et Millau attacked the fat, slow cooked, sauce heavy French cuisine for the same reason, opening the way for the new French cuisine "chefs". Pleasures of the senses over satiety. Earlier, Etienne Auguste Parmentier used elaborate tactics to have the potato accepted by the population, from fake guards around the fields and pamphlets against the various roots people used to eat when low on wheat. During the French Revolution, cuisine was also purged from its aristocratic attributes, prohibiting the unnecessary complexities. Maybe inspired by the Protestant reform culinary ethos where food should be fresh, humble and roborative. Nice stories.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> from fake guards around the fields Is there any actual proof of this? The same story has been told about Frederick the Great, and I always assumed it was an urban legend.
- jeromenerf 6y ago
  It could be a myth, and still contribute to the "legend".

corty 6y ago

> And pasta is anti-virile because a heavy, bloated stomach does not encourage physical enthusiasm for a woman, nor favour the possibility of possessing her at any time. This might be time-appropriate for 1930, but leaving that drivel uncommented perpetuates the oppression and violence immanent in it.

pjc50 6y ago
Well, this is diet advice from Italian Fascists.
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  The German fascists had very strong health and diet advice too. Turns out that because exercise was recommended by the Nazis, a good anti fascist shouldn't do anything strenuous. /S
- ummonk 6y ago
  Well, without seeing the original Italian, it's hard to know whether "possessing her" is a faithful translation of how it termed having sex.
  - ummonk 6y ago
    Ah, found it: "E la pastasciutta è antivirile perchè lo stomaco appesantito ed ingombro non è mai favorevole all’entusiasmo fisico per la donna e alla possibilità di possederla dirittamente." So it's indeed saying "possessing her", though a more idiomatic translation would probably be to say "taking her", since "possess" is rarely used as a term for sex at least in modern English.
hombre_fatal 6y ago
The whole article is the comment. You're suggesting there exists someone who might read this interesting morsel of history and walk away, convinced by the excerpts, with anti-pasta views accompanied by a superstition that has them avoiding Italian cuisine on their first date unless warned otherwise. Seems quite far-fetched. Though who are we to stop such a gentleman from sparing a woman some indigestion after reading a 1930s dating tip?

Saint_Genet 6y ago

The writer Huw Lemmey wrote a really interesting essay on Fascism vs. Pasta a while ago: https://huw.substack.com/p/spaghetti-al-fascismo https://huw.substack.com/p/spaghetti-al-fascismo

scottlocklin 6y ago

Futurists were the most punk rock artistic movement before punk rock happened in the 70s. They even invented Industrial noise before Throbbing Gristle with Russolo's "Art of Noises" and orchestra of noise makers. The interesting thing about them is while they enjoyed shocking people and beating up their artistic rivals, they weren't nihilists like punks were: they were punk rock for technological progress rather than sticking bolts through their noses in defiance of de-industrialization. "Pasta is a cruel and brutalizing food that makes you lazy and sentimental."

telesilla 6y ago
They were also the first to notice, in writing in any case, that the world around them now sounded of machines so why not use that in music? Much like, our lives are increasing electronic, and so is so much now of the music we listen to. We truly reflect the world around us in our creative expressions.
user-the-name 6y ago
Futurists, though, were by and large fascists. Punk is strong anti-fascist.
- 1_player 6y ago
  A punk-like movement is a product of its time and opposed to the status quo. Modern punk and Futurism are a similar idea borne out of a very different substrate. Of course it's easy in retrospect to note that (Italian) fascists and Futurist groups did cross paths during their ascent, but that does not mean that Futurism was fascist in its philosophy.
  - Pulcinella 6y ago
    This is ahistorical. Marinetti‘s futurism was extremely fascist. His Futurist party merged with the Fascist party. He wrote the Futurist manifesto and co-wrote the Fascist manifesto. The Futurist manifesto has “gems” such as: “We want to glorify war - the only cure for the world - militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of the anarchists, the beautiful ideas which kill, and contempt for woman.”

arnejenssen 6y ago

I recently used the Libre Sense continuous glucose sensor as an experiment (I don't have diabetes). I noticed that after eating pasta, my blood sugar stayed elevated for 4-5 hours. It looks like calling pasta and bread "slow carbs" is appropriate. One of my conclusions from the experiment is that I will probably never buy wheat again (but I'll eat it if I get it served).

jmnicolas 6y ago
> I noticed that after eating pasta, my blood sugar stayed elevated for 4-5 hours. But how long your blood sugar stayed high after eating "fast carbs"?
- arnejenssen 6y ago
  My meals without slow carbs usually had a "rounded" elevation that last for about 1 hour and converges do my baseline after about 3 hours. I never tried only carbs/fruits in a meal. I always add fat and some protein. I should try it for my next experiment. The glucose response also appears to be affected by physical activity before or after a meal. You can "walk-off" a heavy meal.
  - jmnicolas 6y ago
    Thanks!
ummonk 6y ago
Do you mean that in a negative way? A food with carbs that release over 4-5 hours seems ideal for lunch.
- arnejenssen 6y ago
  Practitioners of intermittent fasting and keto diet claim we have more mental clarity when we are in ketosis. During the experiment I made a homemade pizza with about 300 g of flour. After eating it I experienced brain-fog and I was not able to focus on reading a book that evening.

b0rsuk 6y ago

Popularity of pasta in Italy is part of nation's accumulated wisdom. Pasta is popular simply because it _works_. It gradually releases water over time. This makes it very popular among marathon runners for example. Pasta's dietary properties make it very popular in notoriously sunny Italy, where activity slows down during midday.

nvrGiveUp 6y ago
I think rice is the opposite. I had a coworker say that since rice absorbs water, it can also do this during digestion. I noticed a similar effect when I was drinking too much. I would only be hungover after having rice. And to clarify a point, it was fried rice that cooled, meaning it wasn't watery.

emmelaich 6y ago

Note: the paper on the benefits of a Mediterranean diet is the mostly highly cited of retractionwatch's papers. https://retractionwatch.com/the-retraction-watch-leaderboard/top-10-most-highly-cited-retracted-papers/ https://retractionwatch.com/the-retraction-watch-leaderboard...

andrewl 6y ago
It's worth noting that it wasn't a 100% dismissal of the findings. From Retraction Watch: But the findings haven’t disappeared — the authors have replaced the paper with a new version, which softens its earlier claims. https://retractionwatch.com/2018/06/13/does-the-mediterranean-diet-prevent-heart-attacks-nejm-retracts-and-replaces-high-profile-paper/ https://retractionwatch.com/2018/06/13/does-the-mediterranea...

sleepysysadmin 6y ago

Everything dates back to post-ww2. One of the key people was Ancel Keys. He falsified data and excluded significant data from his studies in order to push a narrative that saturated fats were bad for you. That eating plants was the only healthy way forward. Then the governments around the world pushed out their food pyramids that reinforced this idea. We then had obvious paradoxes where in neighbours like France and Italy were the complete opposite reality. France with high fat had very low coronary heart disease and Italy which was low fat had high coronary heart disease. There was no paradox, the science was fraudulent. Over the last several decades they have debunked and disproven this several times. The fix for bad science is better science. this is over. We know all the health risks are from carbohydrates. This has been a fact for decades. Yet we sit here and grocery stores are 90% carbs. If we eliminate carbs from society, the food industry collapses >90%. Millions upon millions of jobs are headed to unemployment. worse yet, the majority of these people have no other skills. We as a society basically cannot afford to stop eating carbs. Nobody will be cutting carbs out of their diet.

jessermeyer 6y ago
>Over the last several decades they have debunked and disproven this several times. Citations please.
- sleepysysadmin 6y ago
  >Citations please. 1969: Dietary sugar and coronary heart disease J Yudkin 1973: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/26/5/524/4816008?redirectedFrom=PDF https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/26/5/524/4816... 1977: "Diet-Heart: End of an Era" Mann George V 2002: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.0000019552.77778.04 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.CIR.0000019552.77... 2009: Sugar: The Bitter Truth, Robert Lustig (MD, PhD) There's significant studies done in the last 10 years. We know for a fact that carbs/sugar are the problem. Virtually all diabetes associations now push low carb diets. I suspect these citations will mean nothing, I'm down around -10 for this post. Like I said, going to be huge amounts of resistance to this one.

amelius 6y ago

Isn't pasta just noodles with different marketing?

HenryKissinger 6y ago
Nobody will eat noodles in the 22nd century. We will feed on biomechanical components and pure concentrated energy. The future is now. #DownWithPasta
wlll 6y ago
Noodle is apparently: "late 18th century: from German Nudel, of unknown origin." (Google) However: "Although popular legend claims Marco Polo introduced pasta to Italy following his exploration of the Far East in the late 13th century, pasta can be traced back as far as the 4th century B.C., where an Etruscan tomb showed a group of natives making what appears to be pasta." (wikipedia) Personally I've never referred to Spaghetti as noodles, and noodles to me means long thin things you put in stir-fry/ramen. Plus, there's many other shapes of pasta other than "noodle" shaped.
Symmetry 6y ago
Penne is pasta but not a noodle. Rice noodles aren't pasta. Pasta refers to the substance the food is made from, not its form.

jariel 6y ago

Consider the weird lunacy of these folks - fine on the fringes, but very dangerous when let lose with raw ideas on civilisation. Now consider that since probably the early 19th century this has always been happening. Finally, consider that it's happening 'right now' - so which of the 'futurists' today are out to lunch, quite obviously so, we're just to 'caught up' to see it that way?

zabzonk 6y ago

Sophia Loren: “Everything you see I owe to spaghetti.” https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8968-everything-you-see-i-owe-to-spaghetti https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8968-everything-you-see-i-o...

deleted 6y ago

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zzzeek 6y ago

"Pasta, he said, was a “passéist food” that “[deluded people] into thinking it [was] nutritious” and made them “heavy, brutish,” “skeptical, slow, [and] pessimistic.” " all very (subjectively) true. As a pasta fanatic I try to eat Kamut pasta as often as possible as it leaves much less of a lethargic and carby aftermath.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

Spoke against the world's number one favorite food? And lost? Imagine that.

hypertexthero 6y ago

If buying (hard) pasta in the US make sure to look at the ingredients on the package and only buy pasta that lists only two ingredients: semolina and water. Not sure why so many other ingredients are added here. The pasta with only semolina and water tastes much better. Also make sure to cook it al dente, not al mush: https://www.simongriffee.com/pastaclock/ https://www.simongriffee.com/pastaclock/

wahern 6y ago
You probably know that salt is often fortified with iodine. Quite a lot of other basic foodstuffs, including bread, rice, and pasta, are fortified with folic acid, iron, niacin, etc. It's a largely forgotten program of the USDA that has been wildly popular in reducing the incidence of nutritional diseases. I presume that's what you're referring to, because I just looked at the ingredients on the spaghetti boxes of the two most popular brands of pasta in the U.S., Barilla and Mueller's, and they only list wheat--semolina & durham, and durham, respectively. But they're both also fortified, with Mueller including that in the list of ingredients, and Barilla listing them separately as vitamins/minerals. I understand it's de rigour to eat "pure" foods, but it's actually led to reduced intake of important nutrients in the wider population. For example, until very recently iodine wasn't included in prenatal vitamins because for much of the past century most people used fortified salt. But with the increased use of kosher salt in home kitchens, medical advice not to add too much salt when cooking, and the fact that prepackaged foods don't contain iodized salt, iodine intake began to drop in the United States and UK.