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For the specific claim made above (Biden and Trump both filled in, going to Biden), if I recall it was one of the witnesses during the Michigan legislature hear

For the specific claim made above (Biden and Trump both filled in, going to Biden), if I recall it was one of the witnesses during the Michigan legislature hearing. For your other citation requests, please see: https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/1.-11-10-20-trump-v.-benson-w.d.-mich.-complaint-final.pdf https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/1.-11... If you do a search for "Exhibit 1" this will take you to the list of affidavits. > Honestly, genuinely, do you believe your layman perspective is more valid than someone who has spent their entire life honing their craft (judges)? In matters of law, certainly not. In matters of right and wrong, I consider myself on an equal footing as anybody else. I've reviewed the reasons the judges have dismissed the cases. The reasons typically boil down to either: 1) Outright dismissal without giving opportunity to provide any evidence, 2) Dismissal on technical grounds (e.g. standing), 3) Dismissal from declaring the affidavits hear-say, 4) Dismissal that grants premise that election laws were not followed but this does not prove fraud I'm not sure what the legal standards are on what determines an affidavit to be hear-say or not, but they can be submitted to a court as evidence. Thus far, no judge (as far as I'm aware) has allowed them to be provided as evidence. Regardless of the legal implications of affidavits and the standards they must meet to be provided as evidence in court, I have seen more than enough (dozens if not hundreds) of testimonies that provide the same consistent general picture: election laws were not followed, and in a significant way. For point #4 above, either the election laws exist for a reason, or they don't. The election laws that prevent fraud were (in my opinion) blatantly ignored, in critical Democrat areas, amounting to hundreds of thousands of votes processed without the required legal oversight. (For the record, wasn't me who downvoted. Thanks for engaging in constructive discussion. )

afuchs 6y ago
For the sake of balance, this defendant's motion to dismiss is also relevant since it directly disputes these claims: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18619867/31/donald-j-trump-for-president-inc-v-benson/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18619867/31/donald-j-tr... Many more documents are available, but I doubt most people have the amount of time required to read through, and much less understand in full: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18619867/donald-j-trump-for-president-inc-v-benson/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18619867/donald-j-trump... This has also received plenty of media coverage, for example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/michigan--poll-watcher-affidavits/2020/11/11/4d073d7a-2447-11eb-a688-5298ad5d580a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/michigan--poll-watch...
- prucomaclu 6y ago
  Thanks for the links. I have reviewed the first link some weeks back. From what I can tell, the judgement falls under the "casual dismissal" category. Aside from the fact that the judgement is loaded with clearly biased editorializations, it doesn't provide adequate justification for its findings. As an example: > Challengers are allocated one per respective party or organization to each counting board.5 > The only challenger right specifically listed with respect to absent voter ballots is to observe the > recording of absentee ballots on voting machines. M.C.L. § 168.733(1)(e)(i) (“A challenger may > do 1 or more of the following: … Observe the recording of absent voter ballots on voting > machines.”) This requirement was met at all times.6 "This requirement was met at all times". How was this finding reached? The footnotes referenced (5,6) does not provide any indication to how this was reached. Yet, this finding is in direct contradiction to the affidavits that were provided. On what evidence was this finding based? Further, the judgement states: > Even Plaintiffs’ “material” allegations could not possibly support their causes of action. If > each and every one of the allegations were true (they are not true), at most, they relate to a small > number of ballots, that could not possibly change the outcome of the election. This is just factually not true, based on the number of hours of lack of meaningful observation, which would be hundreds of thousands of votes. Again, there is no indication in the judgement how this finding was reached. THANK YOU however for providing these links. I have not yet looked at the other two and I will review them with the attention they deserve.
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    prucomaclu: Shame on you for gullibly believing and mendaciously spreading hypocritical, cynical, Anti-American lies, and shame on Texas for trying to overturn Democracy. Texas: Don't mess with America. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-texas-election-trump/2020/12/11/bf462f22-3bc6-11eb-bc68-96af0daae728_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-c... Supreme Court dismisses bid led by Texas attorney general to overturn the presidential election results, blocking Trump’s legal path to reverse his loss The Supreme Court on Friday dismissed a long-shot bid by President Trump and the state of Texas to overturn the results in four states won by Democrat Joe Biden, blocking the president’s legal path to reverse his reelection loss. The court’s unsigned order was short: “Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another state conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed as moot.” Justices Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Clarence Thomas, as they have in the past, said they did not believe the court had the authority to simply reject Texas’s request. “I would therefore grant the motion to file the bill of complaint but would not grant other relief, and I express no view on any other issue.” Trump, who has appointed three of the court’s nine members, has long viewed the Supreme Court as something of an ace-in-the-hole, and called for the justices to display “courage” and rescue him in post-election litigation. [...] The states said Texas’s claims were hypocritical and cynical. Although Texas said in a filing that it “does not ask this court to reelect President Trump,” the suit does not ask the court to discount the votes in any state Trump won where state officials and courts altered voting procedures because of the coronavirus pandemic. Among those states are Texas itself, where the governor made changes.
prucomaclu 6y ago
> For the specific claim made above (Biden and Trump both filled in, going to Biden), if I recall it was one of the witnesses during the Michigan legislature hearing. To follow up on this, specific citation is below. This witness starts at 1:34:45 in the below video. (Christina Caramo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXkAv7yKgw&list=UU8Ioh4atNDO5a0Vy2qFmauQ&ab_channel=NTD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXkAv7yKgw&list=UU8Ioh4atND...
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  Shame on you, and shame on Texas. You LOST the Civil war, and you FAILED to start another one. Trump and Texans are such Anti-American sore losers. No slaves for you! Texas: DON'T MESS WITH AMERICA! https://www.businessinsider.com/kinzinger-republican-lawmaker-rips-texas-gop-for-suggesting-secession-2020-12?international=true&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/kinzinger-republican-lawmake... Republican congressman rips Texas GOP for suggesting secession and says 'my guy Abraham Lincoln and the Union soldiers already told you no' Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger on Friday criticized the Texas GOP for floating the idea of secession after the Supreme Court rejected a bid to overturn the results of the presidential election. In a statement, the Texas GOP chairman suggested that "law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution." Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger of Illinois said the statement should be immediately retracted and the people involved fired. "My guy Abraham Lincoln and the Union soldiers already told you no," he said.
  - prucomaclu2 6y ago
    This is getting wildly off topic, but secession is a basic human right. It falls under the basic human right to self determination. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination Texas does not need permission from the federal government to secede, regardless of any court cases that say otherwise. If today, the Texas legislature approved a popular vote to secede, and that popular vote were to pass, then Texas would have every right to secede. To say otherwise, would be to enslave Texas to the union, forcing them to your edicts. I get it, last time Texas seceded, they did so because they wanted to keep slaves. But that does not mean secession cannot be considered as a legitimate course of action. When a married couple are wholly incompatible with each other, sometimes divorce is the best option. And certainly, neither party has the right to declare that the other can't leave.

afuchs 6y ago

For the sake of balance, this defendant's motion to dismiss is also relevant since it directly disputes these claims: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18619867/31/donald-j-trump-for-president-inc-v-benson/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18619867/31/donald-j-tr... Many more documents are available, but I doubt most people have the amount of time required to read through, and much less understand in full: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18619867/donald-j-trump-for-president-inc-v-benson/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18619867/donald-j-trump... This has also received plenty of media coverage, for example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/michigan--poll-watcher-affidavits/2020/11/11/4d073d7a-2447-11eb-a688-5298ad5d580a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/michigan--poll-watch...

prucomaclu 6y ago
Thanks for the links. I have reviewed the first link some weeks back. From what I can tell, the judgement falls under the "casual dismissal" category. Aside from the fact that the judgement is loaded with clearly biased editorializations, it doesn't provide adequate justification for its findings. As an example: > Challengers are allocated one per respective party or organization to each counting board.5 > The only challenger right specifically listed with respect to absent voter ballots is to observe the > recording of absentee ballots on voting machines. M.C.L. § 168.733(1)(e)(i) (“A challenger may > do 1 or more of the following: … Observe the recording of absent voter ballots on voting > machines.”) This requirement was met at all times.6 "This requirement was met at all times". How was this finding reached? The footnotes referenced (5,6) does not provide any indication to how this was reached. Yet, this finding is in direct contradiction to the affidavits that were provided. On what evidence was this finding based? Further, the judgement states: > Even Plaintiffs’ “material” allegations could not possibly support their causes of action. If > each and every one of the allegations were true (they are not true), at most, they relate to a small > number of ballots, that could not possibly change the outcome of the election. This is just factually not true, based on the number of hours of lack of meaningful observation, which would be hundreds of thousands of votes. Again, there is no indication in the judgement how this finding was reached. THANK YOU however for providing these links. I have not yet looked at the other two and I will review them with the attention they deserve.
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  prucomaclu: Shame on you for gullibly believing and mendaciously spreading hypocritical, cynical, Anti-American lies, and shame on Texas for trying to overturn Democracy. Texas: Don't mess with America. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-texas-election-trump/2020/12/11/bf462f22-3bc6-11eb-bc68-96af0daae728_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-c... Supreme Court dismisses bid led by Texas attorney general to overturn the presidential election results, blocking Trump’s legal path to reverse his loss The Supreme Court on Friday dismissed a long-shot bid by President Trump and the state of Texas to overturn the results in four states won by Democrat Joe Biden, blocking the president’s legal path to reverse his reelection loss. The court’s unsigned order was short: “Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another state conducts its elections. All other pending motions are dismissed as moot.” Justices Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Clarence Thomas, as they have in the past, said they did not believe the court had the authority to simply reject Texas’s request. “I would therefore grant the motion to file the bill of complaint but would not grant other relief, and I express no view on any other issue.” Trump, who has appointed three of the court’s nine members, has long viewed the Supreme Court as something of an ace-in-the-hole, and called for the justices to display “courage” and rescue him in post-election litigation. [...] The states said Texas’s claims were hypocritical and cynical. Although Texas said in a filing that it “does not ask this court to reelect President Trump,” the suit does not ask the court to discount the votes in any state Trump won where state officials and courts altered voting procedures because of the coronavirus pandemic. Among those states are Texas itself, where the governor made changes.

prucomaclu 6y ago

> For the specific claim made above (Biden and Trump both filled in, going to Biden), if I recall it was one of the witnesses during the Michigan legislature hearing. To follow up on this, specific citation is below. This witness starts at 1:34:45 in the below video. (Christina Caramo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXkAv7yKgw&list=UU8Ioh4atNDO5a0Vy2qFmauQ&ab_channel=NTD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXkAv7yKgw&list=UU8Ioh4atND...

DonHopkins 6y ago
Shame on you, and shame on Texas. You LOST the Civil war, and you FAILED to start another one. Trump and Texans are such Anti-American sore losers. No slaves for you! Texas: DON'T MESS WITH AMERICA! https://www.businessinsider.com/kinzinger-republican-lawmaker-rips-texas-gop-for-suggesting-secession-2020-12?international=true&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/kinzinger-republican-lawmake... Republican congressman rips Texas GOP for suggesting secession and says 'my guy Abraham Lincoln and the Union soldiers already told you no' Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger on Friday criticized the Texas GOP for floating the idea of secession after the Supreme Court rejected a bid to overturn the results of the presidential election. In a statement, the Texas GOP chairman suggested that "law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution." Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger of Illinois said the statement should be immediately retracted and the people involved fired. "My guy Abraham Lincoln and the Union soldiers already told you no," he said.
- prucomaclu2 6y ago
  This is getting wildly off topic, but secession is a basic human right. It falls under the basic human right to self determination. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination Texas does not need permission from the federal government to secede, regardless of any court cases that say otherwise. If today, the Texas legislature approved a popular vote to secede, and that popular vote were to pass, then Texas would have every right to secede. To say otherwise, would be to enslave Texas to the union, forcing them to your edicts. I get it, last time Texas seceded, they did so because they wanted to keep slaves. But that does not mean secession cannot be considered as a legitimate course of action. When a married couple are wholly incompatible with each other, sometimes divorce is the best option. And certainly, neither party has the right to declare that the other can't leave.