16 ms·

Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

138 points by womitt 6y ago

skeeter2020 6y ago
I dislike that skip levels are positioned as some sort of variation of a 1:1, as other than the # of people they have nothing in common. The 1:1 is for the employee while skip levels are all about the senior manager. We already have enough opportunities for them to set the agenda and drive the conversation. A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vulnerability; this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level. >> when it comes to individual contributors, who are a two level skip for me, ... I do a skip level group meeting with three to six people. and this isn't even a 1:1. I can't imagine you get any sort of honest or actionable feedback in this sort of forum. There's a mismatch between the tool and the operator.
- rubidium 6y ago
  If you have a bunch of cogs working, sure. But if you have a dynamic team that has the courage to point things out to senior leaders it can be a good way to pull back the veil on what’s really going on.
  - pc86 6y ago
    I'm curious what "dynamic" means in this context to you.
    - rubidium 6y ago
      People actively working and interested in making the product and business better. Not just “doing time” at work.
      - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
        This is an extremely delicate issue in any large organization. Skipping one level basically means: "Let's see what important things my report is not telling me". If you are asked for such a meeting, anything you say could be used against your direct manager. You need to know the office politics well before speaking anything that could have even small impact on anything. I saw people freaking out for mentioning minute stuff "behind their backs." With a small team, it's very different - but usually the hierarchical structure is much more horizontally aligned so this is not much of a problem.
        username90 6y ago
        I must have worked at organizations with flatter structure than the others here. Talking with your skip level manager is an ordinary thing, if he has some opinions on the things you are responsible for why would he talk to your manager and not just go directly to you? Managers are mostly for bookkeeping purposes anyway, they shouldn't tell you what to do on a daily basis. At least they didn't in the 3 places I worked.
- wcerfgba 6y ago
  > mutual trust and vulnerability Depending on your manager and organization, this is definitely not mutual. Managers have power over their reports, even if it is as subtle as being able to influence the decisions of more senior management over who should be promoted, retained, demoted, or fired.
- lbotos 6y ago
  I had a skip-level yesterday as the Senior Manager talking to a group of 8 IC's in my org. They brought critical feedback to me about an initiative we as a group are working on. They brought actionable ideas and they communicated them to me in a professional and sincere way. We worked together to identify their areas of concern to make sure I understood them and I communicated that I would bring these up and work to see if we could adjust with that in mind. 2 hours later, I had my regular weekly 1:1 with a manager involved and presented those proposals. I asked them what could work as proposed and what needed work. Most were accepted, not because I mandated them, but because this is real feedback. Some we are working to get more clarity on and figure out if we can change anything. Not all of my skip levels are this fruitful but trust and vulnerability come from creating psychological safety. I thanked the group for being a part of making that happen. ---- I also have a rule in my skip levels that if you are uncomfortable raising in the group setting there are two options: - We can talk privately - You can ask me prior to the meeting to raise the point in the room The second has never been used yet, but I keep it open if someone feels like they are not comfortable speaking out, but want to discuss something in a group that could be challenging.
- username90 6y ago
  Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager, so I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager. I'd even say that if you aren't getting to meet and make an impression on your skip level then there is something wrong. They are your best bet to get promoted and if the organization tries to block that path for you then why should you stay instead of looking for better opportunities?
  - wonder_er 6y ago
    > Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager True, but say something that reflects negatively on your manager, and if they hear about it, they may rapidly become _more likely_ to fire you than the skip-level manager.
    - pc86 6y ago
      Why would you say something (whether it's negative or not) to your skip that you haven't said to your direct manager? Skip-level meetings should be about distilling important topics from your 1:1's with your direct manager and sharing with your skip what they need to know. There shouldn't really be any information that your skip has that your manager hasn't gotten weeks earlier (if it's negative, so they can try to fix it).
      - astrange 6y ago
        Not all of your work has to involve your direct manager. Some of it might come from the skip or higher, either because it’s super-secret or to give you more visibility. In that case you still need healthy communication with your own team manager, but you wouldn’t be telling them everything except what they need to know to manage your workload.
  - hammock 6y ago
    >I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager The first thing that comes to mind is you wouldn't want to tell your skip level manager anything that you wouldn't (or haven't already) told your direct manager. That's going outside the chain of command and creates political and organizational issues that no one will appreciate.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  > this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level. That is emphatically not true in the general case. It certainly isn't for me with my senior leadership.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    The dynamic exists in all relationshps regardless of (and even still in) your specific interpersonal dealings.
- houseofzeus 6y ago
  I would see that kind of group thing as more about building some rapport in a less scary environment than a skip level so that they feel if something was up they can come to you.
- astrange 6y ago
  > A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vulnerability; this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level. This is true but I do think you’re over-dramatizing it a little. It’s also a good time to be positive (remind them what you do around here) or just talk. Which is important when everyone is working from home!
bob33212 6y ago
Everytime I have been invited to a 1 on 1 with someone high up the org ladder, I have been given talking points from the people in between
- throwit1q2e3r 6y ago
  When I was a jr. engineer, I had a skip level meeting with the director of our department (~30 people). I asked the director -- in the snarky way that certain entitled junior employees have -- what he actually did in his job. He laughed and explained that his job was to make sure senior management understood what we were doing and were onboard with why we were doing it. Nobody gave me any talking points and I was too green to worry about the political ramifications of my snark... and there weren't any. It was just a half hour opportunity to talk to someone I didn't usually get a chance to talk to. I now realize that this company, or maybe just that department, was a particularly healthy place to work.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    It's not that snarky. Especially from someone new to the field these are questions I would be expecting, especially at a tech company (so pretty equalitarian and meritocratic where the director probably started as an engineer himself). I would also expect the career path to take to get into management to be discussed as well.
    - Godel_unicode 6y ago
      It depends how it's said. I would hesitate to correct the person who actually said it about whether they said it in a snarky way unless I was actually there.
      - 908B64B197 6y ago
        Sure, maybe the tone was. But the question itself doesn't strike me as such, at least coming from a junior engineer. Someone more senior should know what the tasks of someone at that level are, so asking "what is your job" might be interpreted as implying he isn't doing much.
silicon2401 6y ago
Does anybody have advice on how to make the most of meetings with coworkers/mentors 2+ levels up the ladder from yourself? I once had a great session with a c-suite exec in an employer with 5 digits worth of employees, but I think that was as much due to his being a really motivated mentor as any prep or questions I did. I want to make sure I'm prepared for future meetings if the mentor is not as open or enthusiastic about mentorship.
- curiousllama 6y ago
  Think about purpose and benefit. A cynical view, perhaps, but the way to a good relationship is to make it part of the transaction. What are this person's priorities (outcomes they need to make happen) for the year? How can you help make that happen? Come to the conversation with "you're doing X; how can I help make that happen?" - and when you explain why you want to help, make it personal ("I want to get to Y, and this will help me get there"). You help with X, and they'll hep with Y.
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    I'm more than happy to take cynical views, I find they're often what I would consider just realistic. That's a great breakdown and it makes total sense. I've found people respond well when you already know stuff about them. Do you think it would be even better to come in with something like this? "I know you want to achieve X this year, and I have an idea Y or a personal goal Z to help us get there. What do you think?" Or do you think that would be getting too ahead of things?
- codemac 6y ago
  You want them to be a sponsor of your work to others. At that level of seniority they could really make a difference in your promotion and growth over time if they know who you are and what problems you're solving. Mentorship should be about someone telling you what they did when they were in your shoes, and coaching is more like performance optimization.
  - silicon2401 6y ago
dwater 6y ago
I would love to have a skip level meeting going 2 levels up. My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive because he asks me what my problems/concerns are, I tell him variations the same 3 or 4 things every time, and has asks me for ideas about what he/we can do to try to solve them from below since he doesn't have the direct power or influence to address them from above. Unfortunately I know who his manager is and I know that my/our concerns are not going to be addressed by that person.
- wilde 6y ago
  Have you requested a meeting? You might be surprised.
  - dwater 6y ago
    No, the upper level person in question is overbooked with being in charge of 1/3 or 1/2 of the company's employees. My personal opinion is that person was given too much responsibility too quickly and is in over their head. When my team came into their purview they told us they wanted to spend as little time as possible on my team, and I've deferred to that statement.
    - mateo411 6y ago
      > When my team came into their purview they told us they wanted to spend as little time as possible on my team, and I've deferred to that statement. That sounds like a pretty effective way of hurting morale.
    - monknomo 6y ago
      to my outsider ears, this sounds exactly like the sort of situation where you should request a meeting and highlight the issue. Not in a finger point-y way, but as an observation that your team needs more time from someone at their level
    - arminiusreturns 6y ago
      I've seen this before, and generally think it tends to be because technical people who have risen to the top as the org grows don't like giving up power, so they end up holding control over way too many teams/depts and the org suffers for it. (or it's a naive cost saving measure) I would like to see a comparison of org-charts in highly functioning corps of varying size.
enominezerum 6y ago
1:1 meetings are just as important in my opinion as an open door policy. Yea, you are my boss's boss and have a lot more reports, you probably get pulled in a lot more directions than I as an IC. I understand why, as teams and companies grow, things get more distanced. Even Linus over at LTT laments that his new hires never get the same 1:1 time his earlier employees had. But, the topics talked about need to have action take on them. Unless you just don't have any power at all, which I can believe. Quarter after quarter at my old company we would mention that the tasks and direction our org were taking weren't the best, would lead to problems, and that we weren't staffed nor compensated individually enough for the new work and responsibilities being loaded onto us. It fell on deaf ears and when I left we had already had almost a full team leave. Shoot, the whole reason I got that job is because they needed folks so bad they took someone not entirely skilled in that area to pick up the slack. The cycle just kept repeating and here it is, MONTHs later, and I hear the same thing. Suppose grindhouses are good for cutting your teeth at least.
spaetzleesser 6y ago
My number one advice would be to actually listen to what the underlings have to say and keep the groups small. I have been to two of these lately and each time the VPs held long monologues that were only interrupted by some people who tried to suck up to the manger by loudly agreeing. The rest was just sitting around and said nothing. If you aren’t willing to receive negative feedback about your own role maybe you shouldn’t do these meetings.

138 points by womitt 6y ago

skeeter2020 6y ago

I dislike that skip levels are positioned as some sort of variation of a 1:1, as other than the # of people they have nothing in common. The 1:1 is for the employee while skip levels are all about the senior manager. We already have enough opportunities for them to set the agenda and drive the conversation. A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vulnerability; this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level. >> when it comes to individual contributors, who are a two level skip for me, ... I do a skip level group meeting with three to six people. and this isn't even a 1:1. I can't imagine you get any sort of honest or actionable feedback in this sort of forum. There's a mismatch between the tool and the operator.

rubidium 6y ago
If you have a bunch of cogs working, sure. But if you have a dynamic team that has the courage to point things out to senior leaders it can be a good way to pull back the veil on what’s really going on.
- pc86 6y ago
  I'm curious what "dynamic" means in this context to you.
  - rubidium 6y ago
    People actively working and interested in making the product and business better. Not just “doing time” at work.
    - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
      This is an extremely delicate issue in any large organization. Skipping one level basically means: "Let's see what important things my report is not telling me". If you are asked for such a meeting, anything you say could be used against your direct manager. You need to know the office politics well before speaking anything that could have even small impact on anything. I saw people freaking out for mentioning minute stuff "behind their backs." With a small team, it's very different - but usually the hierarchical structure is much more horizontally aligned so this is not much of a problem.
      - username90 6y ago
        I must have worked at organizations with flatter structure than the others here. Talking with your skip level manager is an ordinary thing, if he has some opinions on the things you are responsible for why would he talk to your manager and not just go directly to you? Managers are mostly for bookkeeping purposes anyway, they shouldn't tell you what to do on a daily basis. At least they didn't in the 3 places I worked.
wcerfgba 6y ago
> mutual trust and vulnerability Depending on your manager and organization, this is definitely not mutual. Managers have power over their reports, even if it is as subtle as being able to influence the decisions of more senior management over who should be promoted, retained, demoted, or fired.
lbotos 6y ago
I had a skip-level yesterday as the Senior Manager talking to a group of 8 IC's in my org. They brought critical feedback to me about an initiative we as a group are working on. They brought actionable ideas and they communicated them to me in a professional and sincere way. We worked together to identify their areas of concern to make sure I understood them and I communicated that I would bring these up and work to see if we could adjust with that in mind. 2 hours later, I had my regular weekly 1:1 with a manager involved and presented those proposals. I asked them what could work as proposed and what needed work. Most were accepted, not because I mandated them, but because this is real feedback. Some we are working to get more clarity on and figure out if we can change anything. Not all of my skip levels are this fruitful but trust and vulnerability come from creating psychological safety. I thanked the group for being a part of making that happen. ---- I also have a rule in my skip levels that if you are uncomfortable raising in the group setting there are two options: - We can talk privately - You can ask me prior to the meeting to raise the point in the room The second has never been used yet, but I keep it open if someone feels like they are not comfortable speaking out, but want to discuss something in a group that could be challenging.
username90 6y ago
Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager, so I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager. I'd even say that if you aren't getting to meet and make an impression on your skip level then there is something wrong. They are your best bet to get promoted and if the organization tries to block that path for you then why should you stay instead of looking for better opportunities?
- wonder_er 6y ago
  > Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager True, but say something that reflects negatively on your manager, and if they hear about it, they may rapidly become _more likely_ to fire you than the skip-level manager.
  - pc86 6y ago
    Why would you say something (whether it's negative or not) to your skip that you haven't said to your direct manager? Skip-level meetings should be about distilling important topics from your 1:1's with your direct manager and sharing with your skip what they need to know. There shouldn't really be any information that your skip has that your manager hasn't gotten weeks earlier (if it's negative, so they can try to fix it).
    - astrange 6y ago
      Not all of your work has to involve your direct manager. Some of it might come from the skip or higher, either because it’s super-secret or to give you more visibility. In that case you still need healthy communication with your own team manager, but you wouldn’t be telling them everything except what they need to know to manage your workload.
- hammock 6y ago
  >I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager The first thing that comes to mind is you wouldn't want to tell your skip level manager anything that you wouldn't (or haven't already) told your direct manager. That's going outside the chain of command and creates political and organizational issues that no one will appreciate.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Godel_unicode 6y ago
> this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level. That is emphatically not true in the general case. It certainly isn't for me with my senior leadership.
- edoceo 6y ago
  The dynamic exists in all relationshps regardless of (and even still in) your specific interpersonal dealings.
houseofzeus 6y ago
I would see that kind of group thing as more about building some rapport in a less scary environment than a skip level so that they feel if something was up they can come to you.
astrange 6y ago
> A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vulnerability; this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level. This is true but I do think you’re over-dramatizing it a little. It’s also a good time to be positive (remind them what you do around here) or just talk. Which is important when everyone is working from home!

bob33212 6y ago

Everytime I have been invited to a 1 on 1 with someone high up the org ladder, I have been given talking points from the people in between

throwit1q2e3r 6y ago
When I was a jr. engineer, I had a skip level meeting with the director of our department (~30 people). I asked the director -- in the snarky way that certain entitled junior employees have -- what he actually did in his job. He laughed and explained that his job was to make sure senior management understood what we were doing and were onboard with why we were doing it. Nobody gave me any talking points and I was too green to worry about the political ramifications of my snark... and there weren't any. It was just a half hour opportunity to talk to someone I didn't usually get a chance to talk to. I now realize that this company, or maybe just that department, was a particularly healthy place to work.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  It's not that snarky. Especially from someone new to the field these are questions I would be expecting, especially at a tech company (so pretty equalitarian and meritocratic where the director probably started as an engineer himself). I would also expect the career path to take to get into management to be discussed as well.
  - Godel_unicode 6y ago
    It depends how it's said. I would hesitate to correct the person who actually said it about whether they said it in a snarky way unless I was actually there.
    - 908B64B197 6y ago
      Sure, maybe the tone was. But the question itself doesn't strike me as such, at least coming from a junior engineer. Someone more senior should know what the tasks of someone at that level are, so asking "what is your job" might be interpreted as implying he isn't doing much.

silicon2401 6y ago

Does anybody have advice on how to make the most of meetings with coworkers/mentors 2+ levels up the ladder from yourself? I once had a great session with a c-suite exec in an employer with 5 digits worth of employees, but I think that was as much due to his being a really motivated mentor as any prep or questions I did. I want to make sure I'm prepared for future meetings if the mentor is not as open or enthusiastic about mentorship.

curiousllama 6y ago
Think about purpose and benefit. A cynical view, perhaps, but the way to a good relationship is to make it part of the transaction. What are this person's priorities (outcomes they need to make happen) for the year? How can you help make that happen? Come to the conversation with "you're doing X; how can I help make that happen?" - and when you explain why you want to help, make it personal ("I want to get to Y, and this will help me get there"). You help with X, and they'll hep with Y.
- silicon2401 6y ago
  I'm more than happy to take cynical views, I find they're often what I would consider just realistic. That's a great breakdown and it makes total sense. I've found people respond well when you already know stuff about them. Do you think it would be even better to come in with something like this? "I know you want to achieve X this year, and I have an idea Y or a personal goal Z to help us get there. What do you think?" Or do you think that would be getting too ahead of things?
codemac 6y ago
You want them to be a sponsor of your work to others. At that level of seniority they could really make a difference in your promotion and growth over time if they know who you are and what problems you're solving. Mentorship should be about someone telling you what they did when they were in your shoes, and coaching is more like performance optimization.
- silicon2401 6y ago

dwater 6y ago

I would love to have a skip level meeting going 2 levels up. My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive because he asks me what my problems/concerns are, I tell him variations the same 3 or 4 things every time, and has asks me for ideas about what he/we can do to try to solve them from below since he doesn't have the direct power or influence to address them from above. Unfortunately I know who his manager is and I know that my/our concerns are not going to be addressed by that person.

wilde 6y ago
Have you requested a meeting? You might be surprised.
- dwater 6y ago
  No, the upper level person in question is overbooked with being in charge of 1/3 or 1/2 of the company's employees. My personal opinion is that person was given too much responsibility too quickly and is in over their head. When my team came into their purview they told us they wanted to spend as little time as possible on my team, and I've deferred to that statement.
  - mateo411 6y ago
    > When my team came into their purview they told us they wanted to spend as little time as possible on my team, and I've deferred to that statement. That sounds like a pretty effective way of hurting morale.
  - monknomo 6y ago
    to my outsider ears, this sounds exactly like the sort of situation where you should request a meeting and highlight the issue. Not in a finger point-y way, but as an observation that your team needs more time from someone at their level
  - arminiusreturns 6y ago
    I've seen this before, and generally think it tends to be because technical people who have risen to the top as the org grows don't like giving up power, so they end up holding control over way too many teams/depts and the org suffers for it. (or it's a naive cost saving measure) I would like to see a comparison of org-charts in highly functioning corps of varying size.

enominezerum 6y ago

1:1 meetings are just as important in my opinion as an open door policy. Yea, you are my boss's boss and have a lot more reports, you probably get pulled in a lot more directions than I as an IC. I understand why, as teams and companies grow, things get more distanced. Even Linus over at LTT laments that his new hires never get the same 1:1 time his earlier employees had. But, the topics talked about need to have action take on them. Unless you just don't have any power at all, which I can believe. Quarter after quarter at my old company we would mention that the tasks and direction our org were taking weren't the best, would lead to problems, and that we weren't staffed nor compensated individually enough for the new work and responsibilities being loaded onto us. It fell on deaf ears and when I left we had already had almost a full team leave. Shoot, the whole reason I got that job is because they needed folks so bad they took someone not entirely skilled in that area to pick up the slack. The cycle just kept repeating and here it is, MONTHs later, and I hear the same thing. Suppose grindhouses are good for cutting your teeth at least.

spaetzleesser 6y ago

My number one advice would be to actually listen to what the underlings have to say and keep the groups small. I have been to two of these lately and each time the VPs held long monologues that were only interrupted by some people who tried to suck up to the manger by loudly agreeing. The rest was just sitting around and said nothing. If you aren’t willing to receive negative feedback about your own role maybe you shouldn’t do these meetings.