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Basic Income Now, with an immutable tenet that the basic income cannot be restricted or reduced, or contain compliance dependencies. Its time to empower individ
by SubiculumCode 6y ago
Basic Income Now, with an immutable tenet that the basic income cannot be restricted or reduced, or contain compliance dependencies. Its time to empower individuals.
- dkdk8283 6y agoI can’t support socialism at all. I figured out how to work and earn money as 9th grade dropout. Everyone can.
- Daishiman 6y agoIt figures that given that you needed to earn money at 9th grade that you would have never become a doctor, lawyer, or any liberal profession that requires multiple years of dedicated studies. Good for you but that's not how you make an equitable society.
- syshum 6y agoI prefer equality, merit based system. Not "equitable" Equal opportunity, not equal outcomes
- doggosphere 6y agoAnd how do you propose creating equal opportunities?
- dkdk8283 6y agoBy not favoring or biasing. Truly.
- doggosphere 6y agoAnd you apply this rule to corporations how? What metric do you judge your results by?
- dkdk8283 6y agoPlease reframe your question in a specific context. I’ll make a guess. There is no bidirectional trust with corporations: assume you could get fucked at every moment. When trying to convince a corporation (aka a group of people) to give me money I want to be evaluated on and compensated for my objective impact. Subjective evaluations (which can include bias, even the trendy intentional but liberally acceptable race and gender bias) are toxic and can be gamed. I was in a rough situation and took it on the chin. I didn’t beg for money, I begged for the chance to work. Very different and represents opposing work ethics.
- doggosphere 6y agoHow do you systematically ensure equal opportunity, and how do you measure the results of your implemented policy
- dkdk8283 6y agoBy judging people on what they do and not who they are. I’ve hired hundreds. One of my best hires couldn’t speak english and brought a translator.
- doggosphere 6y agoSo your systematic rules for ensuring equality in a world of biases is to simply tell people to "judge people" better? And we as a society will know that we've done a good job because we feel like we did?
- quibbler 6y agoThat's what banks are for. If you have the talent, you can convince somebody to lend you money for your education.
- chokeartist 6y agoRofl do you get up in the morning, get dressed, look at yourself in the mirror, and ask: "How do I be a totally insufferable fucking asshole today?" That response, that gem of a response, perfectly encapsulates the attitude that makes millions of Americans hate you. Hint: it isn't them.
- NeutronStar 6y agoSo you're against society owning the means of production because had to start working in 9th grade?
- gtrhtrhtrhtr 6y agoThat's why you live in the country with the highest number of homeless people in the streets :) You should come visit socialist europe one day
- buttholesurfer 6y agoWhy don't you adopt a few then?
- jonhohle 6y agoWikipedia’s list of countries by homelessness[0] suggests the US has a much lower rate of homelessness that most of the major European countries (Germany, France, Netherlands, United Kingdom, etc.). 0 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeles...
- gtrhtrhtrhtr 6y agoThat result is shocking to me, as I see homeless people everywhere I go in the US, but that much in comparison in Europe. So I'm wondering what it could be? - Are the results false? Would a country lie on the numbers? It looks like the US estimation was misleading halved in two[1], the real numbers paint a much different picture placing the US much higher than any European countries. - Are the results misleading? For example, I see that different years are listed for different countries (2012 for France, 2019 for the US), or that Germany's numbers include "around 375,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation". - Is reality misleading? For example, it could be that homeless in Europe are taken care of and thus you don't see them much, whereas in the US they are all over the streets because there are no aids. Or it could be that most homeless people in Europe don't live in the cities and are thus out of sight. [1]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-06/why-is-homelessness-such-a-problem-in-u-s-cities?cmpid=BBD070620_CITYLAB https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-06/why-is-ho...
- SubiculumCode 6y agoI am shocked at this number too. I see so many homeless throughout California, and not just in the big cities, but in the small towns.
- SubiculumCode 6y agoUBI is not socialism. If I attached conditions to how that money is spent, it might be socialism...which is why I believe we cannot had conditions to it. I think of it more as an inheritance. Personally, I'd advocate for a taxation free version of UBI, i.e. funded by fiat currency, and added as a policy tool to the Fed to control inflation and employment. It is a fact that if you grow up near a financial cliff, people will fall off of it. That is not a productive way to conduct a society. It wastes productivity.
- johnisgood 6y agoI am a 9th grade dropout, too. I am a freelance programmer.
- dkdk8283 6y agoI’m really glad to hear you made it! Respect.
- johnisgood 6y agoThank you! IRC helped a lot to find clients, and sometimes I fix local people's computer after they realized I am a software engineer[1]. The latter is rare though. Regardless, I have ups and downs still due to expenses but hoping to change that and become financially stable, it is about time, I think. :) COVID-19 is really making it much more difficult though. Not infeasible, but extremely difficult to attain what I want[2] thanks to it. :( [1] This helps me build connections as well. For example, I fixed a doctor's laptop, and she has helped me with various things because of it. [2] I want to move to another nearby country. Cheaper and nicer apartments, and the pay is the same because I work remotely.
- s5300 6y agoI figured out how to work and earn money as a 9th grader coming from extreme poverty without even dropping out. Was making $30k/year from 9th - 11th grade. Then I got raped by a rare genetic medical issue. In your world, I should just go fuck myself for having that medical issue though, right? Get off your high horse of toxicity.
- dkdk8283 6y agoPlease don’t think I made my comment out of malice. Could you afford privatized health care on UBI along with basic living expenses? If the amount we’re talking is 2k/m and in the USA I bet not. It is concerning that you feel the need to berate a random person who made a comment you just happen to disagree with or misunderstood. You don’t know me, but I’ll share an ancedote. I suffered a life changing health problem and the advice that I was given is “two things happen to sick people: they get better or they die”. The responsibility to adapt is on you. Not society
- s5300 6y agoYou seem to not be aware of the simplest definition of "welfare state" nor which nations on Earth identify as such and what it entails. That, or, as stated, you just don't really care. Either way, that being stated, further discussion would most certainly be fruitless.
- disposekinetics 6y agoWhy would people agree to an immutable tenet like that? Basic should not be a pact to the death.
- SubiculumCode 6y agoThose tenets are important to the universality of UBI. Otherwise, the Federal government would try to impose means testing, or other conditions upon it, which would make it a very socialistic/communistic type of policy. I want it to be something more like a right of citizenship.
- disposekinetics 6y agoI think I see what you mean. I was thinking from a "fix what's broken" perspective, not a "make it like a birthright" perspective.
- syshum 6y agoThe problem with most Basic Income scheme's is they are solely derived from Income based taxation, they redistribute high wage earners income to lower wage earners there by in effect punishing high wages I can not back such a system as that is tantamount to labor theft and is unethical Now if you want to base a UBI on something else beside Income based taxation, Such has a Georgist Single land value tax then that would be a more ethical system
- prh8 6y agoConsidering that the current system is built on theft by the richest in the form of worker mistreatment, doesn't it all balance out? Amazon is a perfect example of this, you want to protect Bezos against the workers in shitty conditions that are surveilled and actively antagonized?
- syshum 6y agoI see you have confused wealth and wages. Bezo's famously takes a salary of just over 80K, which is lower than many of the programmers working for Amazon Also the idea that current system is " built on theft by the richest" is just asinine and ridiculous
- prh8 6y agoI'm not confusing the two, I am fully aware of the methods the rich use generate their wealth while not contributing any of it back via taxes or any form typically. Bezos wealth has doubled during the pandemic. As we discuss the pandemic pushing people into poverty, do you genuinely think it's asinine to judge the current system but not him?
- SubiculumCode 6y agoI'd be interested in a UBI that is funded only by fiat, as a new tool for the Fed. Essentially giving the Federal Reserve the ability to set both interest rates, and UBI rates to optimally stimulate growth and employment, and manage inflation.
- RobRivera 6y agoI disagree to this call to action
- bpodgursky 6y agoCalling something "immutable" doesn't make it immutable. I assure, the UBI is mutable when the people in charge want to change it. Or when we run out of money.
- jonhohle 6y agoHave any studies shown that UBI wouldn’t cause similar price increases to college tuition or housing prices have had with increased access to easy credit? As someone who dislikes fiat currency, but is also in a place to benefit from it, UBI has always seemed bonkers to me. The MMT idea that fiat is infinite seems to only work if foresight is perfect and the ultimate cause of failure is known ahead of time (certainly Weimar Germany and Venezuela didn’t think they would inflate themselves into crisis).
- sokoloff 6y agoTo have even a snowball's chance in hell of passing, I think you also have to ensure that it can't be increased without bound over time.