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There is a huge difference between "FedEx and UPS are limiting the number of items we are allowed to ship", and "Fedex and UPS are limiting the number of items

There is a huge difference between "FedEx and UPS are limiting the number of items we are allowed to ship", and "Fedex and UPS are limiting the number of items that they will pick up and scan for us but we can still drop everything off at a depot ourselves with no limit". The article is using the terms "shipping limits" and "pickup limits" interchangeably, which is very misleading.

Hizonner 6y ago
If everybody starts bringing tons of stuff into the depots, there may very well be a limit on that too, soon. Or maybe there'll just be the natural limit that you'll wait in line all day and not get to drop off before closing. You'll have a madhouse at those depots if every shipper starts individually hauling in all of their (unusually high number of) packages.
danpalmer 6y ago
For a retailer of any scale these might as well be the same thing. Dropping off at a depot is not really how this bit of the industry works – the courier collects from the distribution centre in almost every case. The issues with doing your own drop offs include: finding a new courier, booking, figuring out a collection time which then impacts your shipping estimate cut-off time, and paying for this whole service. In terms of price, you're going from a high volume commodity service at typically a crazy low price for courier shipping (for what it is), to adding a new additional short-term, lower volume or unproven volume, from one of the smaller providers who aren't operating at Fedex/UPS scale. I could imagine this doubling shipping costs, which might be untenable for many ecommerce businesses. In terms of the actual logistics, it's a challenge, plus typically this would be automated – your software will do this all for you. Now your software needs to book and pre-advise a new provider? And track through them? But also track through the original one? For most businesses it's probably impractical to implement this, and for most that could they probably have contracts with the couriers that mean they won't be hit by this or they do their own deliveries. I think the space in the middle is a pretty small subset of companies.
- nrmitchi 6y ago
  > Dropping off at a depot is not really how this bit of the industry works – the courier collects from the distribution centre in almost every case. I am aware of this. The posted article is referencing merchants with 3000 shipments to send out, which is not insane scale. If FedEx wouldn't pick those up at your door, it is possible to get those shipped out still. Obviously, yes, you may need some new logistics coordination, and it will be more expensive, and yes, it could make a lot of business margin's no longer work. I am definitely not saying that I agree with any action that FedEx/UPS is alleged to be taking here (especially without reasonable notice). But that is not the same thing as "FedEx is refusing to let us ship more than X boxes per day". And it's a distinction that the article should get right.
  - _jal 6y ago
    I would like to propose someone create a new emoji symbol for "I'm mad at the journalist". It would save so much time.
- EsotericAlgo 6y ago
  There has been a big shift to ship-from-store to make up for limited warehouse capacity to meet increased demand. The options for delays for store picks up are much the same: employees drop off at depot, third party courier, or wait.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sokoloff 6y ago
We are a high-volume shipper. Our limits were per-account, not per-location nor would drop-offs be accepted and treated in any way differently. I suppose that we could ship as much as we wanted paying over-the-counter full-retail rates, just like anyone else could. In contrast to the retailers stories in the article, these limits were not a surprise to us. We’ve been planning for months to accommodate this and I think our main carrier (UPS) did a great job of communicating, even as things were somewhat being defined.
- hef19898 6y ago
  That changes things. I know that DHL express is doing this all the time during Q4. Until now I thought it to be a pickup issue. Now that is more like a general capacity issue. Do these limits impact your overall shipping capacity or do you manage regardless?
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    That's treading towards company confidential data, so I'll just say that it did represent a serious threat to overall capacity but that we have been able to navigate well enough by using a variety of tactics (including demand shaping, negotiating with carriers, and tweaking some of our fitness functions for fulfillment scheduling [to ensure we never/rarely wasted our carrier parcel allocation, even if it might be slightly cheaper to fulfill an order a different way if we had infinite outbound parcel capacity]).
    - hef19898 6y ago
      Thanks for answering anyway! And already kudos for a nice job. I just hope I didn't jinx your Q4 now... Part of me wished to have an ops role in 2020, another part is happy I don't. Not sure which one is stronger, so!
jgjr 6y ago
I'm the source. And yes, we are also being turned away at the depot. "Shipping limits" and "pickup limits" are used interchangeably because they're one and the same limitation currently. I even offered to drive our packages in a UHAUL to Las Vegas or Denver hubs to insert them myself and was told a hold would be placed on our account.
- SilasX 6y ago
  I hate to be the one to ask, but ... why can’t they throttle demand and increase capacity by raising prices?
  - Retric 6y ago
    They did as everyone can just pay over the counter rates without issue, because you can ship anonymously.
    - ghshephard 6y ago
      Nobody is shipping 500 packages/day over the counter.
      - Consultant32452 6y ago
        I would love to try this one day as long as the Benny Hill song can play in the background as I make trips from my van into a retail UPS store.
        CaliforniaKarl 6y ago
        I have a friend who works in a UPS Store. He has been working 10+-hour days for the last two weeks, on top of a bicycle commute (which will sometimes turn into an hour-long walk if the winds are bad), picking up groceries, etc.. They have as many employees as they are allowed to have (given the store size), and right now the work is never-ending. > I would love to try this one day as long as the Benny Hill song can play in the background as I make trips from my van into a retail UPS store. Please don't do this, or even joke about it.

Hizonner 6y ago

If everybody starts bringing tons of stuff into the depots, there may very well be a limit on that too, soon. Or maybe there'll just be the natural limit that you'll wait in line all day and not get to drop off before closing. You'll have a madhouse at those depots if every shipper starts individually hauling in all of their (unusually high number of) packages.

danpalmer 6y ago

For a retailer of any scale these might as well be the same thing. Dropping off at a depot is not really how this bit of the industry works – the courier collects from the distribution centre in almost every case. The issues with doing your own drop offs include: finding a new courier, booking, figuring out a collection time which then impacts your shipping estimate cut-off time, and paying for this whole service. In terms of price, you're going from a high volume commodity service at typically a crazy low price for courier shipping (for what it is), to adding a new additional short-term, lower volume or unproven volume, from one of the smaller providers who aren't operating at Fedex/UPS scale. I could imagine this doubling shipping costs, which might be untenable for many ecommerce businesses. In terms of the actual logistics, it's a challenge, plus typically this would be automated – your software will do this all for you. Now your software needs to book and pre-advise a new provider? And track through them? But also track through the original one? For most businesses it's probably impractical to implement this, and for most that could they probably have contracts with the couriers that mean they won't be hit by this or they do their own deliveries. I think the space in the middle is a pretty small subset of companies.

nrmitchi 6y ago
> Dropping off at a depot is not really how this bit of the industry works – the courier collects from the distribution centre in almost every case. I am aware of this. The posted article is referencing merchants with 3000 shipments to send out, which is not insane scale. If FedEx wouldn't pick those up at your door, it is possible to get those shipped out still. Obviously, yes, you may need some new logistics coordination, and it will be more expensive, and yes, it could make a lot of business margin's no longer work. I am definitely not saying that I agree with any action that FedEx/UPS is alleged to be taking here (especially without reasonable notice). But that is not the same thing as "FedEx is refusing to let us ship more than X boxes per day". And it's a distinction that the article should get right.
- _jal 6y ago
  I would like to propose someone create a new emoji symbol for "I'm mad at the journalist". It would save so much time.
EsotericAlgo 6y ago
There has been a big shift to ship-from-store to make up for limited warehouse capacity to meet increased demand. The options for delays for store picks up are much the same: employees drop off at depot, third party courier, or wait.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sokoloff 6y ago

We are a high-volume shipper. Our limits were per-account, not per-location nor would drop-offs be accepted and treated in any way differently. I suppose that we could ship as much as we wanted paying over-the-counter full-retail rates, just like anyone else could. In contrast to the retailers stories in the article, these limits were not a surprise to us. We’ve been planning for months to accommodate this and I think our main carrier (UPS) did a great job of communicating, even as things were somewhat being defined.

hef19898 6y ago
That changes things. I know that DHL express is doing this all the time during Q4. Until now I thought it to be a pickup issue. Now that is more like a general capacity issue. Do these limits impact your overall shipping capacity or do you manage regardless?
- sokoloff 6y ago
  That's treading towards company confidential data, so I'll just say that it did represent a serious threat to overall capacity but that we have been able to navigate well enough by using a variety of tactics (including demand shaping, negotiating with carriers, and tweaking some of our fitness functions for fulfillment scheduling [to ensure we never/rarely wasted our carrier parcel allocation, even if it might be slightly cheaper to fulfill an order a different way if we had infinite outbound parcel capacity]).
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Thanks for answering anyway! And already kudos for a nice job. I just hope I didn't jinx your Q4 now... Part of me wished to have an ops role in 2020, another part is happy I don't. Not sure which one is stronger, so!

jgjr 6y ago

I'm the source. And yes, we are also being turned away at the depot. "Shipping limits" and "pickup limits" are used interchangeably because they're one and the same limitation currently. I even offered to drive our packages in a UHAUL to Las Vegas or Denver hubs to insert them myself and was told a hold would be placed on our account.

SilasX 6y ago
I hate to be the one to ask, but ... why can’t they throttle demand and increase capacity by raising prices?
- Retric 6y ago
  They did as everyone can just pay over the counter rates without issue, because you can ship anonymously.
  - ghshephard 6y ago
    Nobody is shipping 500 packages/day over the counter.
    - Consultant32452 6y ago
      I would love to try this one day as long as the Benny Hill song can play in the background as I make trips from my van into a retail UPS store.
      - CaliforniaKarl 6y ago
        I have a friend who works in a UPS Store. He has been working 10+-hour days for the last two weeks, on top of a bicycle commute (which will sometimes turn into an hour-long walk if the winds are bad), picking up groceries, etc.. They have as many employees as they are allowed to have (given the store size), and right now the work is never-ending. > I would love to try this one day as long as the Benny Hill song can play in the background as I make trips from my van into a retail UPS store. Please don't do this, or even joke about it.