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This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany. We got our tree for this y

This is really interesting. There seems to be a significant difference between the US Christmas Tree economy and the one in Germany. We got our tree for this year a week ago directly from a grower in the local area where we always buy our trees. It is of average size (the 6'-7' size is also what we mostly consider a good size over here) and it only cost us 30€, so our prices here seem to be significantly lower than in the US. Also, I don't know anybody here who has a fake plastic tree - these aren't really a thing here, basically people either don't have a tree at all, or they get a real one.

sheeeep86 6y ago
We got our 1,7m large Christmas tree in Germany for 13 Euros, I simply don't understand how it could have been worth to let it grow for many years at this price.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  To be fair, agricultural land is relatively cheap. And you basically just leave the tree there for 10 years, so maybe it works out?
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    TFA mentions regular trimming/shaping, and fertilizing.
- tpmx 6y ago
  Perhaps grown in e.g. Poland where land and manpower is lower priced, compared to Germany? Ikea Sweden used to sell similar-priced christmas trees "farmed" in Denmark, but they stopped doing that after accusations that they were undermining local suppliers of non-herbicide-grown christmas trees. (In Sweden christmas trees tend to be expensive in cities and cheap/free in the countryside.)
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    Ikea has some loss leaders. Christmas probably isn’t busy for them since there’s not a lot of real estate turnover in December. I once ran the numbers for their tealights and I couldn’t even buy bulk wax that cheaply.
- jojobas 6y ago
  It's not really labour intensive, you have to offset very little labour and rent of your 10 sqm of land (not suitable for any more profitable crop). Some subsidies can play a role too.
  - Scoundreller 6y ago
    Yeah, many “Christmas tree” species can grow in highly acidic soil that’s otherwise only good for blueberries, which are tasty, but usually not much else. At the end of the Christmas season, you can still compost the tree or turn it into wood chips.
kurthr 6y ago
The price from a grower (with 20-30% margin) is $30-35 or about the same. It's the fact that retailers (like always) have a 100% markup (50% margin) so if you go to a random convenience store it'll cost double and they'll make the money. No different from most consumer items. Fake trees last forever... until you throw them away, and then they still last forever.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > Fake trees last forever... until you throw them away, and then they still last forever. Unfortunately they look like a fake tree forever too. It’s better than no tree at all, but not very inspiring.
  - brentm 6y ago
    You'll never beat the real thing without the smell but if you spend decent money you can buy a convincing looking fake.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Retric 6y ago
      Faking the smell is straightforward, but the vaguely creepy feeling of a dying tree in your living room is another story.
      - throwaway201103 6y ago
        Also a fairly real fire hazard, as well as leaving needles everywhere that you'll find until Easter.
        sjg007 6y ago
        We went with a fake tree this year for this reason. I wanted a real one but the excessive amount of needles and the fake one looks real enough. I do miss the smell. Have to find some candles or something... When we move and no longer have carpet I will go back to a real tree. We will probably have two, the fake one and the real one.. lol. The next issue will be storing the damn thing...
lampenrad 6y ago
Edit: Someone corrected me, I quoted the survey wrong. But here‘s another source (YouGov survey, 2012), saying that 43% had a real tree and 17% an artificial one: https://statistik-dresden.de/archives/5195 https://statistik-dresden.de/archives/5195 > Also, I don't know anybody here who has a fake plastic tree - these aren't really a thing here, basically people either don't have a tree at all, or they get a real one. Plenty of people in Germany have plastic trees. According to an Emnid survey from 2017, 1/3 preferred an artificial tree: https://presse.vonovia.de/de-de/aktuelles/171220_kuenstlicher-baum https://presse.vonovia.de/de-de/aktuelles/171220_kuenstliche...
- detaro 6y ago
  The question has to be translated as "Could you imagine using an artificial tree" or maybe "would you consider using an artificial tree", not "do you prefer an artificial tree".
  - lampenrad 6y ago
    Thank you for the correction. I trusted a news article without carefully reading the source myself. My bad. I added a different survey.
js2 6y ago
I’ve lived in NC piedmont area (a couple hours drive from tree farms) since 2004 and basically paid $65-75 for a 6-7 ft tree every year. Every year but one we’ve gotten our tree from whatever corner lot was convenient. (One year we were late and only Home Depot had any trees left.) There is either a shortage of trees this year or people shopped early. We got our tree earlier today and it was the last of two. They gave it to us for half off ($37 for a 6 ft tree) since it’s a somewhat sad (but fitting for 2020) tree. Once we decorate it it will look fine.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I think more people shopped and more of them shopped early. My neighbor in Massachusetts has a Christmas tree farm and they opened a week early (weekend before Thanksgiving) to try to spread out the crowds. Ha! It was very busy that first weekend. I actually notmally get a wreath from them but they were mobbed. I was going to go over early the day after Thanksgiving (the day they normally open and the next day they were open) before I went paddling later and it was just a complete mob scene. I'm not actually sure how they dealt with the crush given that they, like me, have a long one lane driveway and cars were backed out to the road. They sold out that day apparently.
- butwhydotjpg 6y ago
  Due to the long growing cycles for christmas trees, we're now entering a shortage caused by the 2008 recession, and it's expected to last a few years.
  - js2 6y ago
    That's mentioned in the article but I thought that mostly played out in 2018 and last year.
mNovak 6y ago
The geography doesn't scale up for the US though. I imagine people in Oregon, near the growers, also pay less per tree.
- jdlshore 6y ago
  I live in Portland Oregon and paid $40 for a 6’ noble fir yesterday at a small retail lot. Normally, you can bargain down the price (and judging by his tentative price quote, he was expecting me to) but I was happy with that price and didn’t bother.
  - mason55 6y ago
    I tried to barter at a NYC sidewalk tree seller for our office tree once. They wouldn’t budge so I walked. Had to embarrassingly come back 30 mins later when we couldn’t even find another tree seller. They were nice and didn’t raise the price further.
    - dmurray 6y ago
      I think you mean "haggle" rather than "barter". Unless you were offering him supplies from your office instead of cash.
- my_username_is_ 6y ago
  Oregonian here. The prices at Ace Hardware yesterday were $40 for a Doug Fir, and $65 for a Noble Fir. A couple years ago I think I paid $60 for a Doug Fir. But you can also just pay $5 to get a permit from the Forest Service and go cut down your own tree. There are some restrictions (no trees over 12', and there must be other trees within 20' for example) but it's fun to hunt your own tree down--even if the tree that you get isn't a perfectly triangular cone shape like you may get at a tree lot
froh 6y ago
One of the key differences is the pruning and shearing during growth. In the USA it seems more dense trees are preferred [US movie] But TIL also in Germany some pruning is done, according to "Landwirtschaftskammer Niedersachsen" chamber of agriculture lower saxony [LK] "Erziehungsmaßnahmen / Schnitt" educational measures / cut [LK] https://m.lwk-niedersachsen.de/?file=26025 https://m.lwk-niedersachsen.de/?file=26025 [US movie] https://youtu.be/qElwfYNmy6Q https://youtu.be/qElwfYNmy6Q

sheeeep86 6y ago

We got our 1,7m large Christmas tree in Germany for 13 Euros, I simply don't understand how it could have been worth to let it grow for many years at this price.

Aeolun 6y ago
To be fair, agricultural land is relatively cheap. And you basically just leave the tree there for 10 years, so maybe it works out?
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  TFA mentions regular trimming/shaping, and fertilizing.
tpmx 6y ago
Perhaps grown in e.g. Poland where land and manpower is lower priced, compared to Germany? Ikea Sweden used to sell similar-priced christmas trees "farmed" in Denmark, but they stopped doing that after accusations that they were undermining local suppliers of non-herbicide-grown christmas trees. (In Sweden christmas trees tend to be expensive in cities and cheap/free in the countryside.)
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Ikea has some loss leaders. Christmas probably isn’t busy for them since there’s not a lot of real estate turnover in December. I once ran the numbers for their tealights and I couldn’t even buy bulk wax that cheaply.
jojobas 6y ago
It's not really labour intensive, you have to offset very little labour and rent of your 10 sqm of land (not suitable for any more profitable crop). Some subsidies can play a role too.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Yeah, many “Christmas tree” species can grow in highly acidic soil that’s otherwise only good for blueberries, which are tasty, but usually not much else. At the end of the Christmas season, you can still compost the tree or turn it into wood chips.

kurthr 6y ago

The price from a grower (with 20-30% margin) is $30-35 or about the same. It's the fact that retailers (like always) have a 100% markup (50% margin) so if you go to a random convenience store it'll cost double and they'll make the money. No different from most consumer items. Fake trees last forever... until you throw them away, and then they still last forever.

Aeolun 6y ago
> Fake trees last forever... until you throw them away, and then they still last forever. Unfortunately they look like a fake tree forever too. It’s better than no tree at all, but not very inspiring.
- brentm 6y ago
  You'll never beat the real thing without the smell but if you spend decent money you can buy a convincing looking fake.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Retric 6y ago
    Faking the smell is straightforward, but the vaguely creepy feeling of a dying tree in your living room is another story.
    - throwaway201103 6y ago
      Also a fairly real fire hazard, as well as leaving needles everywhere that you'll find until Easter.
      - sjg007 6y ago
        We went with a fake tree this year for this reason. I wanted a real one but the excessive amount of needles and the fake one looks real enough. I do miss the smell. Have to find some candles or something... When we move and no longer have carpet I will go back to a real tree. We will probably have two, the fake one and the real one.. lol. The next issue will be storing the damn thing...

lampenrad 6y ago

Edit: Someone corrected me, I quoted the survey wrong. But here‘s another source (YouGov survey, 2012), saying that 43% had a real tree and 17% an artificial one: https://statistik-dresden.de/archives/5195 https://statistik-dresden.de/archives/5195 > Also, I don't know anybody here who has a fake plastic tree - these aren't really a thing here, basically people either don't have a tree at all, or they get a real one. Plenty of people in Germany have plastic trees. According to an Emnid survey from 2017, 1/3 preferred an artificial tree: https://presse.vonovia.de/de-de/aktuelles/171220_kuenstlicher-baum https://presse.vonovia.de/de-de/aktuelles/171220_kuenstliche...

detaro 6y ago
The question has to be translated as "Could you imagine using an artificial tree" or maybe "would you consider using an artificial tree", not "do you prefer an artificial tree".
- lampenrad 6y ago
  Thank you for the correction. I trusted a news article without carefully reading the source myself. My bad. I added a different survey.

js2 6y ago

I’ve lived in NC piedmont area (a couple hours drive from tree farms) since 2004 and basically paid $65-75 for a 6-7 ft tree every year. Every year but one we’ve gotten our tree from whatever corner lot was convenient. (One year we were late and only Home Depot had any trees left.) There is either a shortage of trees this year or people shopped early. We got our tree earlier today and it was the last of two. They gave it to us for half off ($37 for a 6 ft tree) since it’s a somewhat sad (but fitting for 2020) tree. Once we decorate it it will look fine.

ghaff 6y ago
I think more people shopped and more of them shopped early. My neighbor in Massachusetts has a Christmas tree farm and they opened a week early (weekend before Thanksgiving) to try to spread out the crowds. Ha! It was very busy that first weekend. I actually notmally get a wreath from them but they were mobbed. I was going to go over early the day after Thanksgiving (the day they normally open and the next day they were open) before I went paddling later and it was just a complete mob scene. I'm not actually sure how they dealt with the crush given that they, like me, have a long one lane driveway and cars were backed out to the road. They sold out that day apparently.
butwhydotjpg 6y ago
Due to the long growing cycles for christmas trees, we're now entering a shortage caused by the 2008 recession, and it's expected to last a few years.
- js2 6y ago
  That's mentioned in the article but I thought that mostly played out in 2018 and last year.

mNovak 6y ago

The geography doesn't scale up for the US though. I imagine people in Oregon, near the growers, also pay less per tree.

jdlshore 6y ago
I live in Portland Oregon and paid $40 for a 6’ noble fir yesterday at a small retail lot. Normally, you can bargain down the price (and judging by his tentative price quote, he was expecting me to) but I was happy with that price and didn’t bother.
- mason55 6y ago
  I tried to barter at a NYC sidewalk tree seller for our office tree once. They wouldn’t budge so I walked. Had to embarrassingly come back 30 mins later when we couldn’t even find another tree seller. They were nice and didn’t raise the price further.
  - dmurray 6y ago
    I think you mean "haggle" rather than "barter". Unless you were offering him supplies from your office instead of cash.
my_username_is_ 6y ago
Oregonian here. The prices at Ace Hardware yesterday were $40 for a Doug Fir, and $65 for a Noble Fir. A couple years ago I think I paid $60 for a Doug Fir. But you can also just pay $5 to get a permit from the Forest Service and go cut down your own tree. There are some restrictions (no trees over 12', and there must be other trees within 20' for example) but it's fun to hunt your own tree down--even if the tree that you get isn't a perfectly triangular cone shape like you may get at a tree lot

froh 6y ago

One of the key differences is the pruning and shearing during growth. In the USA it seems more dense trees are preferred [US movie] But TIL also in Germany some pruning is done, according to "Landwirtschaftskammer Niedersachsen" chamber of agriculture lower saxony [LK] "Erziehungsmaßnahmen / Schnitt" educational measures / cut [LK] https://m.lwk-niedersachsen.de/?file=26025 https://m.lwk-niedersachsen.de/?file=26025 [US movie] https://youtu.be/qElwfYNmy6Q https://youtu.be/qElwfYNmy6Q