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The core feature of any cryptocurrency is "money w/o state regulation", but when you're talking about selling it for any major currency (Dollars, Euros, Sterlin
by camgunz 6y ago
The core feature of any cryptocurrency is "money w/o state regulation", but when you're talking about selling it for any major currency (Dollars, Euros, Sterling, Yen, RMB) guess what, you're regulated. There is no way around this, regulators are wise (more than wise, hypervigilant) to it. As a result, this stuff is just cumbersome currency that roasts the planet. No thank you.
- Spooky23 6y agoIt functions like diamonds, real estate and some other commodities used to... medium of exchange for illegal transactions. It’s pretty obvious — the price spikes with the rise of certain internet grifts and wanes as they settle down.
- fastball 6y agoYep, you're right, people are definitely only using cryptocurrency for illegal transactions.
- colordrops 6y agoHow is there still so much of ignorance over cryptocurrency this far along after its inception? Just because you buy and sell gold with major currencies doesn't mean gold is regulated. Crypto isn't much different. If you can get it anonymously, you can move it anywhere you want as long as you stay on the blockchain. Once you leave the blockchain, you aren't dealing with crypto anymore. Once you sell gold you aren't dealing with gold anymore. I don't know about Diem in particular, but a state or corporate issued currency is not a general indictment of cryptocurrency.
- logifail 6y ago> If you can get it anonymously, you can move it anywhere you want as long as you stay on the blockchain Q: Is this fundamentally different to having a suitcase full of cash?
- deevolution 6y agoA suitcase full of cash is much more difficult to transport risk-free compared to bitcoin.
- ExtraServings 6y agoyet infinitely easier to spend.
- Heliosmaster 6y agoNot really, and that is precisely one of the point for crypto advocates. To be used as "virtual" (just non physical) cash, easier to manage.
- Mxs2000 6y agoI’ve heard it’s easier to travel conspicuously and less risky than traveling with suitcases of cash.
- alvarosevilla95 6y agoNo, but only if your suitcase will only open if unlocked by a cryptographically secure key and no one can open it through other methods. They can't steal the suitcase itself either. And you can instantly teleport the contents of your suitcase to an equivalent suitcase held by any other individual on the planet. And third parties can't arbitrarily devalue the contents of your suitcase by printing more of it.
- samatman 6y agoThe last part of this almost certainly doesn't apply to "Diem".
- alvarosevilla95 6y agoI'd argue none of the above apply to Diem actually. I'm definitely referring to traditional, actual blockchains
- 6y ago
- waihtis 6y agoGold and crypto are hardly comparable. Start by factoring in all the crime & scams being done via crypto and you've got a general public practically begging for government intervention for cryptocurrencies.
- isthatsoup 6y agocompared with all the crime and scams done with fiat currencies
- waihtis 6y agoWell, one is a new phenonenom and other is established.
- colordrops 6y agoOk, but that doesn't alter my point.
- cloudinshape 6y ago10 years of debatable so-called-crimes with crypto VS at least 5000 years of wars, crimes and corruption with gold and government money...which side are we supposed to be on?
- waihtis 6y agoYou have to remember 99% of the general public do not think in this manner. Same dilemma as alcohol vs weed/psychedelics.
- AtlasBarfed 6y agoHe's right about roasting the planet though. Scarcity without computational (and literal) power is necessary. Maybe if we could use the inherent incalculability of the three-body problem as the basis for a cryptocurrency. You'd need to observe the universe to "find" astrocoins. It would be Astrology on steroids. Of course that leaves out verifiability, encryption, anonymous identity yet ownership. What if you (somehow) knew both parts of the quantum uncertainty portions of a particle because you initiated the system. Then you could demonstrate ownership by being able to predict the location or the momentum at any time based on that. But it would be fun to hold cryptocoins called Heisenbergs But that is an actual physical particle.
- Heliosmaster 6y agohttps://primecoin.io/ https://primecoin.io/ to compute Prime Numbers
- derefr 6y ago> He's right about roasting the planet though. ...no? Diem/Libra is built on Cosmos, which is a proof-of-stake system, not a proof-of-work system. Validator nodes in a proof-of-stake system do not compete to work ever harder to mine the same resources. There are a rather large number of such validator nodes (100+ at minimum), but that's also true of banks when you translate their Highly-Available mainframe stacks into equivalent Highly-Available commodity-PC stacks. (I.e. they're not spending any more electricity per tx than the ACH system is.)
- camgunz 6y agoI'll cop to hand-waving and painting cryptocurrencies w/ a broad brush here. But it seems like Diem hasn't really figured out what its system is gonna be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diem_(digital_currency)#Implementation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diem_(digital_currency)#Implem.... Looking at their docs and such, it seems like it'll be centralized under the stakeholders until they implement proof of stake, which IMO makes it just another reserve bank.
- hobby-coder-guy 6y ago
- camgunz 6y agoYou're talking about a commodity, not a currency. No one walks around with gold nuggets (or jugs of milk, or bales of wheat) in their pocket because our economy doesn't use the barter system. The difference between cryptocurrencies and other commodities is that other commodities have intrinsic worth. You can drink milk, you can eat wheat. You can't do anything with cryptocurrency, it's just a long, meaningless number.
- rytill 6y agoIt’s just a long number with no intrinsic worth. Like money.
- toomuchtodo 6y agoMoney is backed by a central bank that is accountable to a government body. Crypto is backed by speculation and tech bros (shorthand for the hyper technocratic libertarian).
- rytill 6y agoShared speculation is pretty powerful.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jackric 6y agoAccountable to a government body with opaque motives and capture over its citizens. Crypto has inspectable source code and miners and coin holders can jump ship if shenanigans are perceived
- toomuchtodo 6y agoHow’d that Ethereum DAO attack go? Some folks just decided to hard fork the chain. Much trust, such governance. I’d elect for a suboptimal government over such mechanisms any day, which seems to be a global consensus when you observe the lack of volatility in reserve currency values.
- littlestymaar 6y agoIf you ever try to cross any border custom with more than a certain amount of gold, you'd realize that it's more regulated than you think it is.
- colordrops 6y agoThat is obvious, but that is not something especially unique to gold - pretty much everything physical is regulated at the border. Yours is more of a statement about border security than gold. To bring it back to crypto, you can easily cross a border without your crypto being touched.
- andylynch 6y agoGold markets are most definitely regulated, especially if you’re doing any meaningful FX volume. And since we’re talking about crypto, it’s worth adding the gold mining tends to be too, perhaps more so.
- fastball 6y agoThis is exactly like the argument that electric cars aren't actually any better because grid electricity is not currently very green in most parts of the world. The response of course being that as the grid gets greener (which it does every year), your car becomes greener also. If you have a gasoline car, it will be just as dirty in 20 years as it is today. Same thing with crypto. Yes, currently a lot of people buy and sell crypto with government-backed currency. However, the whole point is to have currency that you can use in place of normal currency. Currency that you are paid in, that you shop in, that you pay your bills in, that you pay back your friends with. At the start, there is a lot of fiat <-> crypto. But the goal is to make it so that people can use crypto for everything, and therefore never need to sell it for any major currency. If you use crypto, every year you will need to "drop out" into fiat less and less. Just like every year your electric car gets greener. Ironically the analogy extends even better to your parting shot: > this stuff is just cumbersome currency that roasts the planet. Again, short-term thinking. As a purely digital currency, cryptocurrency gets greener every year as the grid gets greener. If you want to save the planet, the first step is to electrify everything. Step 2 is to make your electricity production as green as possible (preferably with nuclear).
- noelsusman 6y agoWhy would it be good to free currency from government regulation? This is something I often see crypto advocates blow right past as if it's self explanatory, but I don't think it is. I like that the currency I use is managed by my government. Why should I want to switch?
- fastball 6y agoObviously the biggest one is concern over things like hyperinflation, which has happened in the real-world many times. Or, not quite at hyperinflation, but your government is enacting policies based on MMT or similar and you are worried that this could hurt you (as a holder of the currency) in the long-run. Or, maybe you're worried about governments being able to dictate what you are allowed to purchase with "their" money. Or, maybe you want to send your money somewhere your government doesn't want you to send it (or their government doesn't want the other party to get it). Obviously there is a lot more to cryptocurrency than just "not being issued by a government" as well though. There is general privacy benefits (Monero) or the promise of innovation if you have programmable money / contracts (Ethereum).
- mateuszf 6y ago> The core feature of any cryptocurrency is "money w/o state regulation", but when you're talking about selling it for any major currency (Dollars, Euros, Sterling, Yen, RMB) guess what, you're regulated. Depends on the regulation type we're talking about. Yes, state may require KYC, AML, and taxes, but in case of bitcoin they can't regulate the inflation.
- crocodiletears 6y agoI could be wrong, but isn't the point of Diem to create a jointly managed payment network that's auditable to its stakeholders? Seems like a viable reason to create a cryptocurrency that isn't intended to bypass state regulations.
- joeseppy 6y agohttps://www.upstreamdata.ca/post/natural-gas-venting-how-bitcoin-solved-a-160-year-old-problem https://www.upstreamdata.ca/post/natural-gas-venting-how-bit... An eco friendly Cryptocurrency mining use case is that gives electricity generation a baseline price regardless of where it is generated.
- camgunz 6y agoOh that's interesting, like an energy economy. I think... it's a little tenuous because the price would based on like, math, algorithms and ASICs more than scarcity of fuel (or pollution, or what have you), but definitely an interesting idea.
- fibo 6y agothe main feature it is not de-regulation but de-centralization, anyone could run a Bitcoin node and unless you own 51% of the network you cannot control it Facebook is trying to create yet another world bank