9 ms·
Antioxidants prevent health-promoting effects of physical exercise (2009) [pdf]
- ketamine__ 6y ago> Taken together, these previously published findings tentatively suggest that fruits and vegetables may exert health-promoting effects despite their antioxidant content and possibly due to other bio-active compounds. However, it should be noted that the current study applied comparably high doses of oral antioxidants, which have been tested in healthy young men only.
- koo6 6y agoStrange notion, that more insulin sensitivity is always better
- et2o 6y agoWhen would it be harmful?
- koo6 6y agolikely in a subset of cases of reactive hypoglicemia
- reedf1 6y agoI'm not sure they are asserting that. In the context of managing or reducing rates of type-2 diabetes, it seems relevant.
- koo6 6y agothis study mentions "healthy young men" and the title states "health-promoting effects". So, do healthy young men need to have their health promoted by increasing their insulin sensitivity?
- OneGuy123 6y ago"More insulin sensitivity" is better because that means that the body can better respond to sugars in the blood. If you become insulin unsensitive this means your body cannot properly respond to sugars in your blood. Sugars in your blood corrode blood vessels etc...if they are not removed. So "more sensitivity" in this case is a good thing.
- joao64 6y ago2009 paper. No subsequent followups studies since then?
- urubu 6y agoHere is a 2020 review of more recent studies: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/antioxidants/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/antioxidants/
- contingencies 6y agoIn short: it is possibly a good idea to eat and drink (at least some teas with goji berries etc.) only after exercise, if you are trying to maximize its health effects.
- ehnto 6y agoI just wanted to point out that another comment came to the opposite conclusion, it's unclear to me who is right.
- contingencies 6y agoYeah, not immediately after. The phrase they used is better, "outside of the recovery window". It's all hearsay handwavey stuff anyway until replicated. What I like is that it sort of concurs with the default wisdom of pre scientific/quantified self era paranoia about best practices, which was "don't eat right before exercise". People take this stuff way to seriously IMHO. If you need a scientist to tell you when to eat, you've got bigger problems.
- hombre_fatal 6y agoWell, the problem that exercise supplement marketing has created is that they try to convince you that their products, like pre- and during-exercise drinks, are helping you. Otherwise your default state would have likely stayed at bringing just a water bottle and empty stomach to the gym.
- ehnto 6y agoHaving been in the supplement industry before software, even I ended up confused about what the right approach was. It was clearly awash with psuedoscience, but there are also countless points of anectodal evidence in the community confusing things further. I no longer take supplements, but creatine and whey protein are the two mainstays in the community. Pure and plain, and with lots of old and new studies backing them up.
- seesawtron 6y agoA controversial topic .. there is an effect called mito-hormesis .. when you do excercise there are small amount of free radicals leaked that activates kinases and inhibits phosphatades and overall increase phosphorylation in the cell. Through this and other pathways, some genes are expressed which are supposed to increase survival, so overall there is a window of free raficals concentration. If you get below it (total blockade) you will prevent the hormesis (beneficial) effect, but if you get above it, you can get all the free radical related diseases e.g neurodegenerative diseases. [0] https://doi.org/10.1038/nm.3624 https://doi.org/10.1038/nm.3624
- agumonkey 6y agowhat's the status quo on hormesis acceptance ? I've read countless time that the originator is controversial and over-fit his theory .. but at the same time positive/antifragile feedback mechanisms seem so obvious.
- refurb 6y agoAre you thinking radiation hormesis? That is still controversial and current radiation safety standards adhere to "no safe dose of radiation". But hormesis as a general theory (i.e. "small doses are beneficial, large doses harmful") isn't really that controversial.
- agumonkey 6y agoI remember a lot of time reading people saying the general theory is fluff because too general.
- seesawtron 6y agoI am not an expert on the ageing-related hormesis topic and have not kept up with status quo but this was the most recent and interesting interactive lecture I enjoyed this year on the topic: https://youtu.be/zjQ5Z7v6csk https://youtu.be/zjQ5Z7v6csk
- xwdv 6y agoExercise naturally makes your body better at anti-oxidizing. Maybe consumption of too many antioxidants causes that to atrophy.
- Icedcool 6y agoFurther links on that antioxidants inhibit exercise adaptation: https://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/10/antioxidant-supplementation-with-1g-of.html?m=1 https://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/10/antioxidant-supplem... https://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/03/anti-oxidants-resistance-training-in.html?m=1 https://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/03/anti-oxidants-resis... TLDR: Take your antioxidants outside of your workout and recovery window. The bodies response to working out is based on the challenge/damage and antioxidants reduce that.
- refurb 6y agoThis is what makes biology so interesting and challenging. You find some biological signal associated with a disease and think "oh, I can just inhibit this and solve the problem!", then you learn there are half a dozen other signaling pathways that rely on that molecule, including beneficial ones.
- Aerroon 6y agoIt reminds me very much of coding, where people strive very hard not to have this type of coupling, but it inevitably still happens.
- tent3n3 6y agoI feel like there’s some underlying relationship here with Godel and infinitely large numbers. We cannot know all states of all particles that ever were or will be, how can we ever concretely analyze human existence when space-time is so infinite? Michael Levin and team show us that manipulation of electric fields in animals ...well see for yourself: https://youtu.be/RjD1aLm4Thg https://youtu.be/RjD1aLm4Thg All that physical structure we nurture as concrete truth? Not so sure about that.
- amelius 6y agoIt's not surprising, since biology tends to reuse existing mechanisms and molecules for lots of different purposes; a result of the fact that we were created through a messy process called evolution.
- amelius 6y agoThen why do I crave a large glass of freshly made orange juice after workout?
- firethief 6y agoSugar.
- max_entropy 6y agoAnd water.
- mikesabbagh 6y agoMaybe some dont like to hear this, but publishing in PNAS is usually when your publication is rejected from other more respected peer-reviewed journals. I wont trust this publication much.
- hombre_fatal 6y agoEither way, the only actionable morsel I think anyone could take from this if such a person existed is that they probably don’t need to buy Cytosport’s expensive Muscle Serum(tm) and rip it mid-workout, something that probably does the average person no good anyways beyond turning their piss neon green. Not that anyone changes their life over a scientific paper. The other year I read part of a frightening paper on heart disease that had me google “how to prevent atherosclerosis”, and later that day I stopped through the McD drive-thru just for three large fries. Gonna have to come at something a little harder hitting than science to inconvenience me, baby!
- gryson 6y agoBizarre comment - are you taking the old PNAS = "Passed over by Nature And Science" joke a bit too literally? PNAS is one of the top general-science journals. Yes, there are better field-specific journals, but PNAS is pretty damn respectable and not that easy to get published in. Regardless, a publication should be judged on the strength of its research, not on which top-tier journal it is in.
- SubiculumCode 6y agoNature and Science. Ha. If "good" journals stopped with Science and Nature, I wouldn't have published anything yet. Lots of solid science won't even get considered at those journals.
- andor 6y agoI have heard better arguments in scientific discourse ;-) Given that vitamin C supplementation is generally understood to inhibit some training adaptations (e.g. reduced skeletal muscle growth), it sounds reasonable to me that it might also prevent insulin sensitivity improvements. Insulin triggers glycogen synthesis and muscles are one of the places where this happens. Reduced muscle growth -> reduced change in glycogenesis capacity.
- sitkack 6y agoAre free radicals always shown to be bad? Maybe too much "protection" prevents necessary cell death. Maybe the free radicals are there on purpose.