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Even better: Sick days shouldn't be a pool at all. In Norway there's X amount of sick days one can use without any hassle (all paid), to use any more all you h

Even better: Sick days shouldn't be a pool at all. In Norway there's X amount of sick days one can use without any hassle (all paid), to use any more all you have to do is show a doctors note. If you have to use more than Y amount of days (chronic illness, a more serious thing or something), the government will temporarily take on the responsibility of paying the worker's wages. I don't think people should be punished for being sick.

MereInterest 6y ago
Absolutely agreed, and that sounds like a reasonable solution all around. Having a pool of sick days leads to the same situation, just with different circumstances. (e.g. Somebody who has a planned surgery for long-term health issues needing to save up sick days to use for the recovery.)
- brtkdotse 6y ago
  > Somebody who has a planned surgery for long-term health issues needing to save up sick days to use for the recovery I don't want to be "that guy" but Jeez Louise does this sound like total dystopia when viewed from the outside. What would happen if you didn't have sick days saved?
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Nearly all lower income employees in the US don’t have sick days, or any paid time if they don’t come to work. If they aren’t working, they aren’t getting paid. Additionally, they are not qualified for unemployment benefits if they are fired due to it being the employee’s fault they could not work.
    - brtkdotse 6y ago
      furiously updating proof_of_worst_timeline.xlsx
mikem170 6y ago
Do people pretend to be sick to use up their X days? Many people want to have as many days off as they can. If so, you could be in the same situation, call in saying your sick to use all your days then really get sick at the end of the year. If the answer is no, perhaps that is due to cultural differences. It's my impression that folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.
- pavlov 6y ago
  > “... folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.” Which is cause and which is consequence? Maybe Norwegians are more responsible at work because employers don’t exploit them so openly and the law gives them more protection.
  - Pet_Ant 6y ago
    > Which is cause and which is consequence? Honestly the problem is that its a feedback loop. A trusting culture leads to people being more trustworthy... in the long run. The first company to do it will be taken advantage of. It will take a while for society to then frown on that and apply social pressure which will then in turn unlock more trust etc... but it's a process for sure
    - mikem170 6y ago
      I imagine that trust can come and go as decades turn into centuries. It seems that social trust is decreasing in a number of places...
  - fpig 6y ago
    We have tons of labor protections in Croatia and people still try to game the system in any way they can. Labor laws just make this easier. Sick leave is massively abused, even though it requires a doctor to authorize it (but is unlimited). People get their doctor to authorize their fake sick leave. We’re a corrupt society on all levels and in all areas of life. Norway likely isn’t.
- 6y ago
mamon 6y ago
In Poland the number of sick days is unlimited but you need a form filled by an actual MD in order to claim it. Vacation days are separate pool.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  Seems like roughly the right solution. Sick days should exist to protect people who are unfortunate enough to get sick. Bad luck shouldn't cost you your pay, your job, or your holiday days. Sick days should not be a simple pool of days off that you get to treat as equivalent to holiday days. This approach has the effect of (further) rewarding people who are lucky with their health, and incentivises not taking sick days when you should.
  - hobs 6y ago
    That's a huge waste of a doctor to get a note saying someone has the snuffles or diarrhea. In america you have to realize that getting that note would actually cost people money and time.
    - pc86 6y ago
      Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? If they get sick on Monday you're potentially forcing someone to choose between unpaid time off, burning a day of PTO, or going into the doctor's office Wednesday or Thursday (if they're lucky) and saying "I feel find but had a cold Monday, can I get a note?" And how to juggle the logistics of that Wed/Thur doctor's visit with work? I feel like a "sick day pool" or sick days burning PTO is just a shitty way for companies to try to save 0.02% on payroll while simultaneously pissing off the few employees who get burned by the policy. I can honestly say if I had to use PTO for an unexpected illness and it either messed up a vacation or caused me to have some vacation be unpaid, I would leave no matter how happy I was otherwise.
      - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
        > Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? In Finland, where this same system exists, each urban neighborhood has its own local clinic that in large part exists just for this reason: someone feeling ill can call early in the morning, be seen a little later that morning, and get a note that they can show their employer the next day (or whenever they recover).
pkaye 6y ago
I think the closest thing in the US is the short term disability in California which gives up to 52 weeks if you are not able to work based on doctors certification and a week waiting period. https://edd.ca.gov/Disability/Am_I_Eligible_for_DI_Benefits.htm https://edd.ca.gov/Disability/Am_I_Eligible_for_DI_Benefits....

MereInterest 6y ago

Absolutely agreed, and that sounds like a reasonable solution all around. Having a pool of sick days leads to the same situation, just with different circumstances. (e.g. Somebody who has a planned surgery for long-term health issues needing to save up sick days to use for the recovery.)

brtkdotse 6y ago
> Somebody who has a planned surgery for long-term health issues needing to save up sick days to use for the recovery I don't want to be "that guy" but Jeez Louise does this sound like total dystopia when viewed from the outside. What would happen if you didn't have sick days saved?
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Nearly all lower income employees in the US don’t have sick days, or any paid time if they don’t come to work. If they aren’t working, they aren’t getting paid. Additionally, they are not qualified for unemployment benefits if they are fired due to it being the employee’s fault they could not work.
  - brtkdotse 6y ago
    furiously updating proof_of_worst_timeline.xlsx

mikem170 6y ago

Do people pretend to be sick to use up their X days? Many people want to have as many days off as they can. If so, you could be in the same situation, call in saying your sick to use all your days then really get sick at the end of the year. If the answer is no, perhaps that is due to cultural differences. It's my impression that folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.

pavlov 6y ago
> “... folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.” Which is cause and which is consequence? Maybe Norwegians are more responsible at work because employers don’t exploit them so openly and the law gives them more protection.
- Pet_Ant 6y ago
  > Which is cause and which is consequence? Honestly the problem is that its a feedback loop. A trusting culture leads to people being more trustworthy... in the long run. The first company to do it will be taken advantage of. It will take a while for society to then frown on that and apply social pressure which will then in turn unlock more trust etc... but it's a process for sure
  - mikem170 6y ago
    I imagine that trust can come and go as decades turn into centuries. It seems that social trust is decreasing in a number of places...
- fpig 6y ago
  We have tons of labor protections in Croatia and people still try to game the system in any way they can. Labor laws just make this easier. Sick leave is massively abused, even though it requires a doctor to authorize it (but is unlimited). People get their doctor to authorize their fake sick leave. We’re a corrupt society on all levels and in all areas of life. Norway likely isn’t.
6y ago

mamon 6y ago

In Poland the number of sick days is unlimited but you need a form filled by an actual MD in order to claim it. Vacation days are separate pool.

MaxBarraclough 6y ago
Seems like roughly the right solution. Sick days should exist to protect people who are unfortunate enough to get sick. Bad luck shouldn't cost you your pay, your job, or your holiday days. Sick days should not be a simple pool of days off that you get to treat as equivalent to holiday days. This approach has the effect of (further) rewarding people who are lucky with their health, and incentivises not taking sick days when you should.
- hobs 6y ago
  That's a huge waste of a doctor to get a note saying someone has the snuffles or diarrhea. In america you have to realize that getting that note would actually cost people money and time.
  - pc86 6y ago
    Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? If they get sick on Monday you're potentially forcing someone to choose between unpaid time off, burning a day of PTO, or going into the doctor's office Wednesday or Thursday (if they're lucky) and saying "I feel find but had a cold Monday, can I get a note?" And how to juggle the logistics of that Wed/Thur doctor's visit with work? I feel like a "sick day pool" or sick days burning PTO is just a shitty way for companies to try to save 0.02% on payroll while simultaneously pissing off the few employees who get burned by the policy. I can honestly say if I had to use PTO for an unexpected illness and it either messed up a vacation or caused me to have some vacation be unpaid, I would leave no matter how happy I was otherwise.
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      > Not only that but how many people can get into a doctor the same day for the note? In Finland, where this same system exists, each urban neighborhood has its own local clinic that in large part exists just for this reason: someone feeling ill can call early in the morning, be seen a little later that morning, and get a note that they can show their employer the next day (or whenever they recover).

pkaye 6y ago

I think the closest thing in the US is the short term disability in California which gives up to 52 weeks if you are not able to work based on doctors certification and a week waiting period. https://edd.ca.gov/Disability/Am_I_Eligible_for_DI_Benefits.htm https://edd.ca.gov/Disability/Am_I_Eligible_for_DI_Benefits....