6 ms·

Personal anecdote - my house has two sets of solar panels on the roof - the first was installed in 2017, the second was just installed last month. In 2017 my 6

by sxates 6y ago

Personal anecdote - my house has two sets of solar panels on the roof - the first was installed in 2017, the second was just installed last month. In 2017 my 6kw system cost $24,000 before any incentives (by SolarCity). In 2020 my 7.8kw system cost $15,000 before any incentives (by Tesla). Of that $15k, $4.3k was for the panels themselves, $2k for the inverter, $1k for mounting hardware, and $8k for installation. It's pretty shocking to me that in just 3 years the price per watt was basically halved, all in. Because looking at the breakdown, half the cost is in installation and presumably marketing and sales costs. Even if the panels themselves cost half as much, it would be a relatively small decrease in the total cost of the system. I wonder what the practical bottom is - even if the panels were free, there's a floor on the labor cost.

xyzzyz 6y ago
How much savings/profit do these actually generate to you? I guess some quite significant numbers, if you decided to actually expand capacity.
Jedd 6y ago
I'll add some anecdata from Australia. My neighbour had a 5kW system put on, single-phase inverter, about three years ago - for ~ A$7000. I've just put a deposit down for installation of 12kW of panels with a 10kW three-phase inverter for A$7400 Same provider, though I haven't compared breakdown of costs (I'm assuming very similar installation / labour costs).
- harry8 6y ago
  How do you find a provider? Feel like sharing who you used and some details?
  - Jedd 6y ago
    I'm not sure where you are, and what regions the vendor I'm using covers, but I did pick Beyond Solar. This was mostly because my neighbour, an ex-power plant engineer, with much more expertise in this tech than me, had selected them three years ago, and his son had gone through a similar process a month or so ago and also chose them. Quality of the equipment is the big factor, and I gather a lot of the significantly cheaper companies are cutting costs on the quality and/or warranty. I was recommended https://www.solarquotes.com.au/ https://www.solarquotes.com.au/ by several trusted sources for comparing options, though didn't end up using them.
    - harry8 6y ago
      Thanks!
- SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
  I wonder how the economics on this work. Does it make more sense to wait or does it make more sense to buy at any point since you always win?
  - Jedd 6y ago
    Good question. In my case we're spending an inordinate amount on power currently, because we're using upwards of 20kW / day. Part of that is a horribly inefficient hot water system, part of it is needing an air conditioner this time of year (here in Australia). The new system will include a smart meter changeover, which means hot water can be off-peak, and time-constrained, and air-conditioner will be used primarily during the times that we're generating power. Combined with some other plans - adding a shade-roof over one of the existing poorly insulated structures, replacing the HWS with a heat pump, etc - I expect that we'll be close to power-positive most sunny summer days when we're on-site, and every non-cloudy day that we're not. Payback for my neighbour was ~ 3 years, though he was more extravagant with his air conditioner because it wasn't costing him anything to put it on. I expect a similar or slightly faster payback period. In which case - it makes more sense for me to do this immediately. Whether it would have been the case 3 years ago, I'm not so sure.
- kovach 6y ago
  Coming at this late, but that is a really good price for a fully installed system, does that include some government subsidy? Considering a similar system like that in southern Europe where installation is pretty cheap, and the prices are higher, I see A$12000 for a 10KW system of panels and a 10KW Fronius three-phase inverter.
  - Jedd 6y ago
    Yes, there's some rebates from federal government in those numbers. For the record: 33 x 370W solar panels (Jinko) - 12 year warranty Three-phase inverter (Sungrow), battery capable down the track Installation (labour, mounting kits, wiring, etc) Total is A$13,000 -- less the government incentives / subsidy ($36 / STC) of A$6,600 which are intercepted by the vendor in this case. In Australia these subsidies are taking yet another hit at the end of this year, hence there's a bit of a spike in people paying for these systems, but scheduling installation in 2021.
vbezhenar 6y ago
From my perspective those costs are massive. I'm considering building a whole house from bricks which will cost $30-$40k. I probably won't spend $15k for electricity for all of my life. I don't understand western economy. You've got extremely costly electricity and you're claiming that solar power is good. It might be true for you, but it won't ever come to me at those prices. I'm paying $0.03 for kW⋅h. I'm spending around 200 kW⋅h per month, so that's $6 per month. I would need to live 208 years to save $15k. Solar panels might be fine in some distant places where you're forced to use diesel generators. Diesel is not cheap. But where electrical grid is already in place, I just don't see it working.
- jhloa2 6y ago
  The average cost of residential electricity in the US is just under $0.12/kWh. A $6/mo electricity bill is pretty much unheard of around here. My electricity bill is around $50/mo and we only have 2 people living in the house. It would still take me ~25 years at my current rates and usages to break even, but the economics might work out better if you have a higher occupancy residence.
  - hassancf 6y ago
    I think energy companies factor in distribution costs and a bunch of other costs beyond pure energy cost per kWh, hence the hefty price.
  - xbmcuser 6y ago
    As more people move to electric vehicles putting in solar panels will become more feasible. The price of solar is falling so fast that if it is unfeasible today it might not be the same 2-4-6 years from now. 5-6 years ago a lot of people that are installing solar now calculated that it was not worth it for them then but it is now as the prices have fallen 50-60%.
    - LunaSea 6y ago
      It's impossible to charge electric vehicles on solar panels. You charge at night when the panels don't produce and the panels don't have enough capacity to charge the vehicle completely. So you need huge batteries that will be even more expensive.
ip26 6y ago
The more installs done, the lower labor can get as everything is streamlined. A whole roof can be replaced for less in labor- which is coincidentally a much larger market than panels.
agumonkey 6y ago
I hear more and more that building codes are updated to include solar. So maybe there will be a standard, thus reduced cost.

by sxates 6y ago

xyzzyz 6y ago

How much savings/profit do these actually generate to you? I guess some quite significant numbers, if you decided to actually expand capacity.

Jedd 6y ago

I'll add some anecdata from Australia. My neighbour had a 5kW system put on, single-phase inverter, about three years ago - for ~ A$7000. I've just put a deposit down for installation of 12kW of panels with a 10kW three-phase inverter for A$7400 Same provider, though I haven't compared breakdown of costs (I'm assuming very similar installation / labour costs).

harry8 6y ago
How do you find a provider? Feel like sharing who you used and some details?
- Jedd 6y ago
  I'm not sure where you are, and what regions the vendor I'm using covers, but I did pick Beyond Solar. This was mostly because my neighbour, an ex-power plant engineer, with much more expertise in this tech than me, had selected them three years ago, and his son had gone through a similar process a month or so ago and also chose them. Quality of the equipment is the big factor, and I gather a lot of the significantly cheaper companies are cutting costs on the quality and/or warranty. I was recommended https://www.solarquotes.com.au/ https://www.solarquotes.com.au/ by several trusted sources for comparing options, though didn't end up using them.
  - harry8 6y ago
    Thanks!
SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
I wonder how the economics on this work. Does it make more sense to wait or does it make more sense to buy at any point since you always win?
- Jedd 6y ago
  Good question. In my case we're spending an inordinate amount on power currently, because we're using upwards of 20kW / day. Part of that is a horribly inefficient hot water system, part of it is needing an air conditioner this time of year (here in Australia). The new system will include a smart meter changeover, which means hot water can be off-peak, and time-constrained, and air-conditioner will be used primarily during the times that we're generating power. Combined with some other plans - adding a shade-roof over one of the existing poorly insulated structures, replacing the HWS with a heat pump, etc - I expect that we'll be close to power-positive most sunny summer days when we're on-site, and every non-cloudy day that we're not. Payback for my neighbour was ~ 3 years, though he was more extravagant with his air conditioner because it wasn't costing him anything to put it on. I expect a similar or slightly faster payback period. In which case - it makes more sense for me to do this immediately. Whether it would have been the case 3 years ago, I'm not so sure.
kovach 6y ago
Coming at this late, but that is a really good price for a fully installed system, does that include some government subsidy? Considering a similar system like that in southern Europe where installation is pretty cheap, and the prices are higher, I see A$12000 for a 10KW system of panels and a 10KW Fronius three-phase inverter.
- Jedd 6y ago
  Yes, there's some rebates from federal government in those numbers. For the record: 33 x 370W solar panels (Jinko) - 12 year warranty Three-phase inverter (Sungrow), battery capable down the track Installation (labour, mounting kits, wiring, etc) Total is A$13,000 -- less the government incentives / subsidy ($36 / STC) of A$6,600 which are intercepted by the vendor in this case. In Australia these subsidies are taking yet another hit at the end of this year, hence there's a bit of a spike in people paying for these systems, but scheduling installation in 2021.

vbezhenar 6y ago

From my perspective those costs are massive. I'm considering building a whole house from bricks which will cost $30-$40k. I probably won't spend $15k for electricity for all of my life. I don't understand western economy. You've got extremely costly electricity and you're claiming that solar power is good. It might be true for you, but it won't ever come to me at those prices. I'm paying $0.03 for kW⋅h. I'm spending around 200 kW⋅h per month, so that's $6 per month. I would need to live 208 years to save $15k. Solar panels might be fine in some distant places where you're forced to use diesel generators. Diesel is not cheap. But where electrical grid is already in place, I just don't see it working.

jhloa2 6y ago
The average cost of residential electricity in the US is just under $0.12/kWh. A $6/mo electricity bill is pretty much unheard of around here. My electricity bill is around $50/mo and we only have 2 people living in the house. It would still take me ~25 years at my current rates and usages to break even, but the economics might work out better if you have a higher occupancy residence.
- hassancf 6y ago
  I think energy companies factor in distribution costs and a bunch of other costs beyond pure energy cost per kWh, hence the hefty price.
- xbmcuser 6y ago
  As more people move to electric vehicles putting in solar panels will become more feasible. The price of solar is falling so fast that if it is unfeasible today it might not be the same 2-4-6 years from now. 5-6 years ago a lot of people that are installing solar now calculated that it was not worth it for them then but it is now as the prices have fallen 50-60%.
  - LunaSea 6y ago
    It's impossible to charge electric vehicles on solar panels. You charge at night when the panels don't produce and the panels don't have enough capacity to charge the vehicle completely. So you need huge batteries that will be even more expensive.

ip26 6y ago

The more installs done, the lower labor can get as everything is streamlined. A whole roof can be replaced for less in labor- which is coincidentally a much larger market than panels.

agumonkey 6y ago

I hear more and more that building codes are updated to include solar. So maybe there will be a standard, thus reduced cost.