9 ms·

Summary: the 'Magic Number', i.e. the fine structure constant, α, which has been known to be about 1/137, has been measured more accurately. From the article:

Summary: the 'Magic Number', i.e. the fine structure constant, α, which has been known to be about 1/137, has been measured more accurately. From the article: > α = 1/137.03599920611. (The last two digits are uncertain.) Implications: this constant underpins much of why the universe is the way it is. A tiny bit higher or lower would result in drastically different universes. Measuring it more precisely allows scientists to make more accurate predictions and hence rule out / refine potential models of our universe.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
can you recommend in depth reading material on what would happen if the number were higher or lower?
- vlovich123 6y ago
  It's in the article, no? > The constant is everywhere because it characterizes the strength of the electromagnetic force affecting charged particles such as electrons and protons
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    well for example when it says " Physicists have argued that if it were something like 1/138, stars would not be able to create carbon, and life as we know it wouldn’t exist." I might like to read more conjecture as to what would exist if it were 1/138 and so forth.
- sbdmmg 6y ago
  From [1] (links therein might be more in-depth) "stable matter, and therefore life and intelligent beings, could not exist if its value were much different. For instance, were α to change by 4%, stellar fusion would not produce carbon, so that carbon-based life would be impossible. If α were greater than 0.1, stellar fusion would be impossible, and no place in the universe would be warm enough for life as we know it." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Anthropic_explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Anthro...
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    > For instance, were α to change by 4%, stellar fusion would not produce carbon, so that carbon-based life would be impossible. If it were to change by 4% in which direction? > If α were greater than 0.1 Considering it's .007 that's a ridiculously huge change. And I can't access the source article. So thanks for trying but that's not very helpful.
    - smilliken 6y ago
      Not 4% of 1, but 4% of α.
      - Dylan16807 6y ago
        > Not 4% of 1, but 4% of α. I know. But which direction? Higher, lower, or both? If it's 4% in both directions that's quite a coincidence. And since we're talking about percentages of α, I will emphasize that going from .007 to .1 is a change of well over a thousand percent. That example is the exact opposite of the anthropic principle showing that we "could not exist if its value were much different"! What did I say to deserve the downvotes?
        alok-g 6y ago
        Decrease by 4%, AFAIK. Upvoted your downvoted comment.
- hanoz 6y ago
  I would highly recommend Martin Rees' Just Six Numbers. I've not read the actual book, but the author-narrated audio is a perennial mind-expanding yet strangely soporific bed time favourite of mine.
amelius 6y ago
Is it really a constant or can there still be a (a little) variation in the number when measured over astronomical distances, or over large timescales?
- analog31 6y ago
  One of the potential benefits of improving the measurement of a "constant" is that you can now uncover fluctuations that were previously buried in noise. Not that I can think of a way of doing it in this case, but perhaps the spectra of distant stars might tell us something.
- Denvercoder9 6y ago
  We don't know for sure, and we probably never will. It's impossible to prove that something is actually a constant over large distances and timescales. You can always go a bit further or wait a bit longer, where it might not be as constant as we expected. However, most experimental data so far is in agreement on it actually being a constant. Wikipedia has a section on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Is_the_fine-structure_constant_actually_constant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Is_the...?
- mxcrossb 6y ago
  > Surprisingly, her new measurement differs from Müller’s 2018 result in the seventh digit, a bigger discrepancy than the margin of error of either measurement. Apparently there can be differences based on if you measure in Paris or Berkeley? Though it’s more likely there is some other source of error. I think having the technical ability for a precise measurement may one day help us look for fluctuations.
- drran 6y ago
  When our visible Universe will drastically change, this constant will change too.
  - peglasaurus 6y ago
    Not sure why you're being downvoted, as by definition, if this constant is valid for how this universe is as it is configured now then significantly changing the universe will likely result in a different constant. How you might change the universe enough to cause a variation is a bigger question. Concentrating all the stars (mass) to one place might do it. Maybe not. The flip side of that question is the larger and generally accepted as obvious statement: a constant with value "x" determines or reflects how the universe is as of now. The duration of that "now" is likely much longer than the earths entire existence.
d0100 6y ago
> α = 1/137.03599920611. (The last two digits are uncertain It must certainly be 42
- drran 6y ago
  It is 42, but in our Visible Universe it's 137.
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    When you account for all dimensions, it tends to 42.
  - Koshkin 6y ago
    Sure, sure, it’s like, there is pi, and then there’s raspberry pi.
- Koshkin 6y ago
  It is one over 42 times 3 plus 11 (where the last two digits are uncertain).
- ibraheemdev 6y ago
  Looks like I'm too late for the 42 joke...
- newsbinator 6y ago
  This comment is an ideal example of this discussion: > Ask HN: Why does HN hate humor? > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25278680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25278680
  - dsohn0 6y ago
    I would think the community as whole doesn't want this site to devolve into constant pop culture references memes and look at me too comments that reddit reeks of. Yeah yeah, you read a certain popular book. If it doesn't pertain to the convo in any meaningful way, please shut the fuck up with your stupid jokes. That's my 2 cents anyway.
NetOpWibby 6y ago
Scientists figured out the seed for our reality. Neat.
- MitPitt 6y ago
  These Minecraft enthusiasts are getting out of control

bryanrasmussen 6y ago

can you recommend in depth reading material on what would happen if the number were higher or lower?

vlovich123 6y ago
It's in the article, no? > The constant is everywhere because it characterizes the strength of the electromagnetic force affecting charged particles such as electrons and protons
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  well for example when it says " Physicists have argued that if it were something like 1/138, stars would not be able to create carbon, and life as we know it wouldn’t exist." I might like to read more conjecture as to what would exist if it were 1/138 and so forth.
sbdmmg 6y ago
From [1] (links therein might be more in-depth) "stable matter, and therefore life and intelligent beings, could not exist if its value were much different. For instance, were α to change by 4%, stellar fusion would not produce carbon, so that carbon-based life would be impossible. If α were greater than 0.1, stellar fusion would be impossible, and no place in the universe would be warm enough for life as we know it." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Anthropic_explanation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Anthro...
- Dylan16807 6y ago
  > For instance, were α to change by 4%, stellar fusion would not produce carbon, so that carbon-based life would be impossible. If it were to change by 4% in which direction? > If α were greater than 0.1 Considering it's .007 that's a ridiculously huge change. And I can't access the source article. So thanks for trying but that's not very helpful.
  - smilliken 6y ago
    Not 4% of 1, but 4% of α.
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      > Not 4% of 1, but 4% of α. I know. But which direction? Higher, lower, or both? If it's 4% in both directions that's quite a coincidence. And since we're talking about percentages of α, I will emphasize that going from .007 to .1 is a change of well over a thousand percent. That example is the exact opposite of the anthropic principle showing that we "could not exist if its value were much different"! What did I say to deserve the downvotes?
      - alok-g 6y ago
        Decrease by 4%, AFAIK. Upvoted your downvoted comment.
hanoz 6y ago
I would highly recommend Martin Rees' Just Six Numbers. I've not read the actual book, but the author-narrated audio is a perennial mind-expanding yet strangely soporific bed time favourite of mine.

amelius 6y ago

Is it really a constant or can there still be a (a little) variation in the number when measured over astronomical distances, or over large timescales?

analog31 6y ago
One of the potential benefits of improving the measurement of a "constant" is that you can now uncover fluctuations that were previously buried in noise. Not that I can think of a way of doing it in this case, but perhaps the spectra of distant stars might tell us something.
Denvercoder9 6y ago
We don't know for sure, and we probably never will. It's impossible to prove that something is actually a constant over large distances and timescales. You can always go a bit further or wait a bit longer, where it might not be as constant as we expected. However, most experimental data so far is in agreement on it actually being a constant. Wikipedia has a section on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Is_the_fine-structure_constant_actually_constant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-structure_constant#Is_the...?
mxcrossb 6y ago
> Surprisingly, her new measurement differs from Müller’s 2018 result in the seventh digit, a bigger discrepancy than the margin of error of either measurement. Apparently there can be differences based on if you measure in Paris or Berkeley? Though it’s more likely there is some other source of error. I think having the technical ability for a precise measurement may one day help us look for fluctuations.
drran 6y ago
When our visible Universe will drastically change, this constant will change too.
- peglasaurus 6y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted, as by definition, if this constant is valid for how this universe is as it is configured now then significantly changing the universe will likely result in a different constant. How you might change the universe enough to cause a variation is a bigger question. Concentrating all the stars (mass) to one place might do it. Maybe not. The flip side of that question is the larger and generally accepted as obvious statement: a constant with value "x" determines or reflects how the universe is as of now. The duration of that "now" is likely much longer than the earths entire existence.

d0100 6y ago

> α = 1/137.03599920611. (The last two digits are uncertain It must certainly be 42

drran 6y ago
It is 42, but in our Visible Universe it's 137.
- rbanffy 6y ago
  When you account for all dimensions, it tends to 42.
- Koshkin 6y ago
  Sure, sure, it’s like, there is pi, and then there’s raspberry pi.
Koshkin 6y ago
It is one over 42 times 3 plus 11 (where the last two digits are uncertain).
ibraheemdev 6y ago
Looks like I'm too late for the 42 joke...
newsbinator 6y ago
This comment is an ideal example of this discussion: > Ask HN: Why does HN hate humor? > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25278680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25278680
- dsohn0 6y ago
  I would think the community as whole doesn't want this site to devolve into constant pop culture references memes and look at me too comments that reddit reeks of. Yeah yeah, you read a certain popular book. If it doesn't pertain to the convo in any meaningful way, please shut the fuck up with your stupid jokes. That's my 2 cents anyway.

NetOpWibby 6y ago

Scientists figured out the seed for our reality. Neat.

MitPitt 6y ago
These Minecraft enthusiasts are getting out of control