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Experimental drug reverses age-related memory and cognitive decline in mice
- fjfaase 6y agoThis is a result on mice and as far as I know, attempts to reproduce similar findings in humans have failed. So there it is to be seen if in this case it will give similar results in humans. The mouse models that are being used, often genetically engineerd to have a certain deposition for cognitive decline, might not suffer from the same type of decline that we see in humans. The drug thus might simply be a treatment for the type of genetic disorder that the mouse model has and not have any effect of the decline see in humans.
- rich_sasha 6y agoTrue, though also my amateur understanding is that ageing-related illness is better modelled that’s e.g. cancer. This is because ageing is a natural thing in all species, whereas for specific diseases, indeed you genetically engineered “mice with cancer”, which behaves then very differently. Could be wrong ofc!
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago> ageing is a natural thing in all species Not all [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality#Organisms https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality#Organ...
- icandoit 6y agoWords like "natural" can be tricky. Dying when struck by a bus is natural. That doesn't mean that busses are a natural feature of the world, or that you shouldn't look before crossing, or that an ER shouldn't make an effort to save the bus-stricken. What do you make of the fact that connecting aged organs to young mice restores the organs? I think we should pursue drugs and treatments that improve function in aged populations, do you? Maybe ageing bodies just need to be occasionally cleaned out to restore healthy function. Maybe it is "natural" to die, but unnecessary to suffer collapse along the way? Worst-case we have to compete in our careers and marathons with then healthy elderly and endure that same happy fate ourselves.
- rich_sasha 6y agoWhat I meant is, “cancer” mice are carefully bred / engineered to develop cancer. You can imagine their disease dynamics are very different from the normal population of mice who get cancer more rarely (and presumably are eaten first by something else). Whereas aging, you just let the mice get old. They have “real”, “natural” old age, not an artificial one.
- LinuxBender 6y agoAge is not considered a disease because everyone does it. If we can learn to change things, such as reset the Horvath clock through epigenetic methylation hacks, or through other methods, then some day aging will be something that affects a minority of people and will be redefined as a disease.
- bpizzi 6y agoHa, I think I can read David Sinclair's words there! (not a bad thing at all IMHO) @see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93_and_Why_We_Don%27t_Have_To https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93...
- LinuxBender 6y agoI follow his work and Dr. Yamanaka's work very closely, along with several other scientists working in this area. They have made substantial progress and there are some promising side benefits that have come from their work, including nerve damage repair, which has massive potential.
- suifbwish 6y agoI believe brain tumors and bone cancer are natural. Also being eaten alive by wolves is even more natural. The entire point of medicine is to get rid of nature’s influence on our vitality
- auspex 6y agoYes, but this is still progress. Baby steps add up to miles.
- Geminidog 6y ago>I know, attempts to reproduce similar findings in humans have failed Specifically with this drug? Source? Not snark; genuinely curious.
- fjfaase 6y agoI followed research into medications for Alzheimer disease after my late wife was diagnosed with Early Onset Alzheimers Disease in 2006. Please have a look at the list of publications I have collected, including reports of promissing findings, most of which, to my knowledge, have not lead to any cure of the disease. https://www.iwriteiam.nl/AlzheimersDisease.html https://www.iwriteiam.nl/AlzheimersDisease.html Search for 'mice'.
- JamesBarney 6y agoYou're 100% right that no drugs have been recently approved by the FDA to help with Alzheimer's. But I think parent is right that they haven't tested ISRIB in people yet.
- kpgraham 6y ago"Mice lie and monkeys exaggerate" is a well known truism in research.
- icandoit 6y ago"attempts to reproduce similar findings in humans have failed" CPH treatment may be useful in dementias of medium level in quite old groups of patients, since 48% of the verum group displayed improvements in the memory functions against 28% of the placebo group. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2506844/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2506844/ "The drug thus might simply be a treatment for the type of genetic disorder that the mouse model" Got any experimental or observational evidence for this hypothesis?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- suifbwish 6y agoIsn’t that cheating if the mice have to be engineered to display the experimental result? Like duh of course it’s going to work. News headline: engineered mouses exhibits characteristics it was engineered to exhibit also water is wet.
- noobermin 6y agoAdd "in mice" to the title.
- bitwize 6y ago....In frickin' MICE.
- vermilingua 6y agoDidn’t need to click the article to know this would be an “in mice”. These headlines are starting to feel like clickbait.
- fergonco 6y agoThere is even a twitter account dedicated to this "in mice" omission: https://twitter.com/justsaysinmice?lang=en https://twitter.com/justsaysinmice?lang=en
- Agenttin 6y agoMy other favorite is the use of "too much" Example from that account: "Too much fructose can cause liver damage -- in mice." To quote Stephen Fry, "Of course too much is bad for you. Too much is exactly that quantity which is excessive! Too much water is bad for you."
- UnpossibleJim 6y agoFunnily enough, I used to drink too much water and sent myself into seizures at one point. The nurse ran in, in hysterics to pull the IV fluids out of my arm, when the diagnosis came through. My coaches had always told me to hydrate, and I worked out hard (at the time), but I wasn't replacing the salt =) Ah, the innocence (and ignorance) of youth.
- JPLeRouzic 6y agoI am not a biologist nor a MD but I have some formal training in biology and huge interest in neurodegenerative diseases like ALS or Alzheimer. The eLife article seems to me to be well written [0] [0] https://elifesciences.org/articles/62048 https://elifesciences.org/articles/62048
- keiferski 6y agoJust think of all the medical breakthroughs we’ll have once someone figures out how to turn a man into a mouse. Paging Dr. Kafka, you are needed in Room...
- keiferski 6y agoApparently no one on HN has read Metamorphosis or has a sense of humor :(
- mikeappell 6y agoOnly tangentially related, but: has anyone found a drug/supplement/etc which aids them in memory retention, cognition, alertness etc? The only thing I've found effective is modafinil for alertness and some general mental sharpness. Especially after a night of poor sleep, the mental alertness it provides is a god-send.
- JamesBarney 6y agoBacopa is the only supplement I've seen with a pretty strong track record of memory improvement. It takes 4-8 weeks to kick in and the two most common side effects people complain about are stomach issues and lack of motivation.
- mikeappell 6y agoFascinating. I'll do some research; appreciate the input.
- rakhodorkovsky 6y agoSalmon roe at 50g per dose thrice a week works nicely for me. See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596017/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596017/ and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6399499/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6399499/. I take it in conjunction with a source of choline and uridine. I also take 2g of magnesium l-threonate per day. As a stimulant I take phenylpiracetam at 100mg per dose on a per need basis. Semax and selank I take on occasion. Ice baths have also been very helpful. I'll leave it at that; pm me for further info.
- mikeappell 6y agoHuh, fascinating. Re: the salmon roe, do you take a supplement which contains the lysophosphatidylcholine, or do you just down the eggs? Ice baths: that's for mental acuity, or overall physical health? I know it's used frequently in high-level sports for recuperation purposes.
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- andy_ppp 6y agoAnyone know when they are allowed to start trying this in primates?
- randcraw 6y agoAs I understand AD, no other primates get the same form of the disease that humans do. To wit, “Aged nonhuman primates with abundant plaques, however, do not manifest neurofibrillary tangles, nor do they become demented”. https://www.alzforum.org/webinars/alzheimers-disease-uniquely-human-disorder https://www.alzforum.org/webinars/alzheimers-disease-uniquel...
- andy_ppp 6y agoWell that's pretty interesting, something about our evolution and increased brain capacity may be causing this to happen then.
- icandoit 6y agoWho is they? We should promote amateur science among those with the means, ability, and integrity. That seems to me to be the best route to more drugs, cheaper drugs, and increased scientific literacy among the public. So much public reward and so little personal risk. Sigma Aldritch has 25 mg for $400. Your hobbies could include a personal bio-science company. Wouldn't that be a more interesting future self? More on ISRIB from the same people: - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3667625/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3667625/ - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4341466/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4341466/ Also, Centrophexine (aka Meclofenoxate on wikipedia) (and probably DMAE) works in humans with dementia using similar mechanisms as I understand it: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2506844/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2506844/
- edjrage 6y agoShould amateurs be allowed to do animal testing? The answer seems no, almost by definition.
- sleepysysadmin 6y agoExperimental drug in mice. In humans you grow a third ear and whiskers.
- aspaviento 6y agoAt this point, it seems the only ones reaching immortality are the mice.
- glasss 6y agoI also recall seeing an article recently on mice on the ISS that get really strong from some genetic tweaks IIRC. It always seems we don't hear much about these "breakthroughs" after the mice results do the rounds through the news organizations. That could also just mean I'm looking in the wrong places though.
- pault 6y agoYou probably do, it's just that the lab test breakthroughs were 20 years ago and now it's just a treatment.
- jjoonathan 6y agoWe already know how to make people strong using biotech: steroids.
- joubert 6y agoDouglas Adams got it right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5xcvAoKojo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5xcvAoKojo
- badconvincer 6y agoWe should really give death row inmates the option to be in scientific trials that are dangerous. I guess this could be misused if judges funnel people into the system explicitly to be used in these trials but I think it would be worth it if we could somehow prevent the above scenario from happening?
- deelowe 6y agoThis creates some pretty perverse incentives.
- pontus 6y agoThis is really exciting news for mice! Before long they'll probably outlive humans. For all those naysayers out there, you're thinking linearly when you should really be thinking exponentially. I suspect that the first mouse to reach 1,000 years has already been born.
- pinewurst 6y agoReminds me strongly of Ted Chiang's "Understand"
- mrwh 6y agoNaive question: mice don't live very long, humans live a long time. Does this imply that it _should_ be easy to extend a mouse's life, and for the same reason, very difficult to extend a human's?