14 ms·

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the wo

Everyone is talking about shifting time around by doing things like getting up earlier, but that doesn't get around a fundamental problem of not enjoying the working part of your day. You still have the same amount of time, just shifted to a different end, and maybe you're a bit better off that way, but it's still the minority of the day. The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc. I get that some of you have draconian bosses and this won't work, but there are many on here that it will work for that aren't taking advantage of it. I also bet you might find that you start doing better work, because you feel better and have more creative energy and mental stamina. Now, you have to figure out how to enjoy other parts of your day too. What about that crappy commute, can you move closer and bike or walk in? I've lived the majority of my life (mid 30s now) waiting for "my time". I remember growing up I just loved to lay in bed at night and think. This was well before smartphones, I'd literally just lay there and think for hours, because that was the most "my time" of the whole day and I loved it. But as I've gotten older I've realized the entire day is my time and it's my responsibility to make it as enjoyable as I can.

malux85 6y ago
> The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc. ^ This people, THIS. Programmers are in massive demand right now, especially skilled ones. You dont have to work to the bone, there are thousands and thousands of jobs out there. You are harder to replace than you imagine. Those "must do" barriers are largely in your head, and if they are not (they really, really are) then MOVE.
- bradlys 6y ago
  Don’t overexaggerate the facts. Programmers are /not/ in massive demand. Even skilled ones. It’s why there’s essentially no compensation growth for the last few years outside of FAANG. All growth has been through stock. The sheer massive number of people entering the field and how hard it is to get a job as an engineer should make this more obvious. If massive demand were true, we wouldn’t have ever increasingly difficult interview practices. There are better jobs out there if you’re getting worked to the bone but it’s not like everyone is going to get $400k and wonderful work. That’s still reserved for the top 5% of engineers. If you’re in the bay, you have a very slim amount of options unless you got your home 30 years ago.
  - pontus 6y ago
    One of the contributing factors here is that many places outside FAANG that hire programmers are not particularly profitable nor do they envision any exponential growth in their future. As such, they can't afford to pay their programmers the "insane" salaries that FAANG companies can offer.
  - dwaltrip 6y ago
    It's hard to get your first software engineering job, but it is it any different than other industries? I don't think it is difficult to find a new job once you are established as a reasonably competent engineer. Do workers in other industries get constant messages via Linkedin and email for job opportunities?
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      They also don't get technical interviews, though.
      - snazz 6y ago
        Most other similarly-paid professions have some kind of standards body or at least far more rigorous formal education requirements. LeetCode interviews seem like a natural consequence of the low formal barrier to entry.
faeyanpiraat 6y ago
I actually enjoy my current work, but get distracted super easily, then I exhaust myself doing unproductive things, and cannot get back doing anything useful. Waking up at 7am and riding the productivity train until I can actually helps with this.
hinkley 6y ago
Part of this is establishing a narrative that you will be less productive when burnt out than you are now, where you disappear an extra 20 minutes a day to be outside. There was a point where I was worried about my fitness, which reached its apex when I had a long commute and a stressful job. Some research was published that changed my life. Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, rather than the previous wisdom of 20 minutes. To get a 20 minute workout you have to disappear for at least 25 minutes, and already be in a certain amount of shape to go that long. It’s miserable and your coworkers notice immediately. 7 minutes doesn’t even have to get you sweaty, so it’s 7 minutes plus however long it takes you to get where you’re going. It’s like a long bathroom break, and nobody commented on where I had gone. 1-2 of those a day and then another 10 minutes at home (or walking to and from lunch) and I was on my way to feeling a lot better. Also for me, physical activity tends to clarify concepts and decisions I’m wrestling with. I do less work and do it better once I know what I’m doing. I can often save myself an hour and a bunch of mental energy by disappearing for 10 minutes and coming back. Even if it only worked 20% of the time, my boss still comes out way ahead. Sharpen your saw.
- rurp 6y ago
  This is great advice and even easier to do when working remote. I have a few free weights that I keep nearby and have worked out a short and simple routine that I don't mind doing. It takes about two songs to finish, so I guess 6-8 minutes. Any time I'm starting to lag or I'm stuck on a problem I walk over and do the routine, then come back to my desk much more alert. One nice aspect of having one (or a few) regular routines is that it's easy to see progress. Even with just a few very short sessions most days I can lift much more weight than when I started.
- collyw 6y ago
  > Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, Where do you get those details from? Fitness and nutrition advice seem to change more often that the favoured JavaScript framework of the month.
  - mschild 6y ago
jingw222 6y ago
It’s extremely difficult and requires lots of will power to dispose of your five different devices vying for your attention when you’re feeling “bored”before bed. These are like electronic drugs that makes everything enjoyable instantly available to us at a tap of a finger. However the joys coming out of screen are impulsive and transient, which increasingly makes me long for the simple and enduring fun time of the early days.
robbyking 6y ago
> I've lived the majority of my life (mid 30s now) waiting for "my time". As expected, becoming a father cost me a lot of free time, but when I started working from home I lost my commute (usually walking, sometimes biking) and that was the one that really stung. It was only a half hour or so each way, but I used that time to catch up with friends, listen to podcasts or music, or just let my mind wander. Now I have to really make an effort to carve out "me time," and with the Covid time tax it's really difficult.
- graeme 6y ago
  This may seem overly simple, but is it possble for you to start and end the workday with a 30 min walk? I’ve worked from home for a decade and that’s part of my routine. I go through a local park. You’d have to negotiate this with your spouse, but you were already using that time before, so in theory it ought to be reasonable. Unless your kid was born this tear that’s a but trickier. Burning out does nobody any good in the long run and exercise and walking are human needs.
  - ska 6y ago
    I did something like this once; i had a 30 min walking commute to my office which was perfect (and was lucky enough this was a pleasant waterfront walk). Then I moved cities and went remote - no commute. After about a month I missed it enough that I set up a few 30-60ish minute "loops" and walked one or two of them every day (i.e. 2 short ones or 1 long one) and this worked pretty well. If I found myself making excuses not to go, I'd mix in an errand that was about a 30 min walk away. Other people I know use a dog as an excuse for this sort of pattern too.
  - mogrim 6y ago
    I find the easiest time to do this is at midday. It's a great way to wake you up from your after-lunch slump. The kids aren't around so no one's expecting you to help take care of them. And it's a lot easier to explain to your partner that you have to work 30min more, than it is to tell them you're heading out on your own for a walk :)
- mattalbie 6y ago
nend 6y ago
This same phenomenon is seen not just with work/leisure (with time being the limiting factor), but also with food/leisure (with money being the limiting factor). Studies show that people who are malnourished due to living in poverty, still spend money on leisure activities despite not having enough food to eat. Leisure time is important for people. Even if you enjoy your work, it's still work, and you're still going to need leisure time. The cause is probably different from person to person, but the solution isn't going to be just "work less", but prioritizing, scheduling, and getting the most out of your "leisure time", which also means different things for different people.
- yourabstraction 6y ago
  Yes, I think scheduling plays a large role in things too. But, the main thing I'm getting at is how to find creative ways to integrate leisure time into your working day. Taking a nap in the sun at lunch time not only gives me extra leisure time, it also makes the afternoon work more enjoyable. This is a huge win for me, so I do it often, yet I've rarely ever had a colleague who did the same. I do have to remind myself that I speak from a place of privilege with extremely in demand skills being a software engineer. But I feel a lot of people in a number of different lines of work fail to take advantage of the freedom they have.
- friendlybus 6y ago
  Leisure time is hard to define recently. People are escaping, true relaxing used to come from a hard day's work that passed on the gift of life to someone else and you could rest easy, then finally throw a joyous festival together. Today's leisure time is closer to busy escapism than relaxation, for the poor at least.
forgotmypw17 6y ago
>The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc. I want to add to that: Find work which improves the overall state of the world.
godot 6y ago
The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for both of us). For anyone with a 2-year old, you know that dinner time is not relaxation. It's trying to stuff food into your mouth as quickly as possible while being busy either feeding her, picking up her toys, or calming her down. Then it's dishes, maybe a little bit more toddler play time, then it's the whole routine of diapers, brushing for her, changing into pajamas, and trying to put her to sleep which takes another 2 hours. I love both my work and my family (and my kid). But the fact is, I have no personal free time until about 11pm. If my spouse has household matters to discuss with me, that takes us to maybe 11:45pm if I'm lucky. And if I don't go to bed before 12am, I pretty much automatically get a migraine the next day. You know what? I still stay up late anyway. Sometimes it's hobby side projects, sometimes it's doing absolutely nothing but useless internet surfing. I can't even help it.
- tyre 6y ago
  When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad, undefinable “life” sense? Or that intellectualizing “take away this kid” is too emotionally fraught to even consider? It feels amoral to ask these questions, but as I reach the time when friends are having kids and the biological clock of partners becomes a real factor, I’m not sure how to know.
  - ses1984 6y ago
    My experience hasn't been the same, I have two kids age 4 and 6, and my experience has been more laid back. Most of the time I spend with this kids is fun. Sure, there can be bad times that are stressful and/or exhausting but it's mostly been very rewarding. My kids are asleep by 830 or 9pm, I'm not sure why this person feels they don't have free time until 11pm, that seems like an exaggeration to me. Even when they are awake, they rarely occupy both my wife and I full time, unless we're choosing to spend quality time with them. Sometimes just one of us watches them while the other one had time to relax or catch up on work. It's not like my wife and I were globetrotting before kids anyway. Having kids is far more interesting than the same old, same old routine. I don't really feel like I'm missing out on things I would have been doing before kids.
pmiller2 6y ago
> ...not getting exploited by others. Good luck with this, if you live in a capitalist country.
dTal 6y ago
For what it's worth, I find that getting up earlier doesn't just shift my free time - it results in a qualitatively different (and better) day. Something about starting the day with "me time" puts me on a nice trajectory, compared to the stressful experience of rolling out of bed and immediately confronting the specter of duty.

malux85 6y ago

> The real solution is to figure out how to love a larger percentage of your day. A lot of this has to do with cultivating the right attitude and not getting exploited by others. At work, don't allow your employer to work you to the bone; work at a steady and enjoyable pace, take lots of breaks to socialize with colleagues, get coffee, go for walks, eat a long lunch in the park, etc. ^ This people, THIS. Programmers are in massive demand right now, especially skilled ones. You dont have to work to the bone, there are thousands and thousands of jobs out there. You are harder to replace than you imagine. Those "must do" barriers are largely in your head, and if they are not (they really, really are) then MOVE.

bradlys 6y ago
Don’t overexaggerate the facts. Programmers are /not/ in massive demand. Even skilled ones. It’s why there’s essentially no compensation growth for the last few years outside of FAANG. All growth has been through stock. The sheer massive number of people entering the field and how hard it is to get a job as an engineer should make this more obvious. If massive demand were true, we wouldn’t have ever increasingly difficult interview practices. There are better jobs out there if you’re getting worked to the bone but it’s not like everyone is going to get $400k and wonderful work. That’s still reserved for the top 5% of engineers. If you’re in the bay, you have a very slim amount of options unless you got your home 30 years ago.
- pontus 6y ago
  One of the contributing factors here is that many places outside FAANG that hire programmers are not particularly profitable nor do they envision any exponential growth in their future. As such, they can't afford to pay their programmers the "insane" salaries that FAANG companies can offer.
- dwaltrip 6y ago
  It's hard to get your first software engineering job, but it is it any different than other industries? I don't think it is difficult to find a new job once you are established as a reasonably competent engineer. Do workers in other industries get constant messages via Linkedin and email for job opportunities?
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    They also don't get technical interviews, though.
    - snazz 6y ago
      Most other similarly-paid professions have some kind of standards body or at least far more rigorous formal education requirements. LeetCode interviews seem like a natural consequence of the low formal barrier to entry.

faeyanpiraat 6y ago

I actually enjoy my current work, but get distracted super easily, then I exhaust myself doing unproductive things, and cannot get back doing anything useful. Waking up at 7am and riding the productivity train until I can actually helps with this.

hinkley 6y ago

Part of this is establishing a narrative that you will be less productive when burnt out than you are now, where you disappear an extra 20 minutes a day to be outside. There was a point where I was worried about my fitness, which reached its apex when I had a long commute and a stressful job. Some research was published that changed my life. Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, rather than the previous wisdom of 20 minutes. To get a 20 minute workout you have to disappear for at least 25 minutes, and already be in a certain amount of shape to go that long. It’s miserable and your coworkers notice immediately. 7 minutes doesn’t even have to get you sweaty, so it’s 7 minutes plus however long it takes you to get where you’re going. It’s like a long bathroom break, and nobody commented on where I had gone. 1-2 of those a day and then another 10 minutes at home (or walking to and from lunch) and I was on my way to feeling a lot better. Also for me, physical activity tends to clarify concepts and decisions I’m wrestling with. I do less work and do it better once I know what I’m doing. I can often save myself an hour and a bunch of mental energy by disappearing for 10 minutes and coming back. Even if it only worked 20% of the time, my boss still comes out way ahead. Sharpen your saw.

rurp 6y ago
This is great advice and even easier to do when working remote. I have a few free weights that I keep nearby and have worked out a short and simple routine that I don't mind doing. It takes about two songs to finish, so I guess 6-8 minutes. Any time I'm starting to lag or I'm stuck on a problem I walk over and do the routine, then come back to my desk much more alert. One nice aspect of having one (or a few) regular routines is that it's easy to see progress. Even with just a few very short sessions most days I can lift much more weight than when I started.
collyw 6y ago
> Cardio improvement can be seen with 3x7 minute intervals, Where do you get those details from? Fitness and nutrition advice seem to change more often that the favoured JavaScript framework of the month.
- mschild 6y ago

jingw222 6y ago

It’s extremely difficult and requires lots of will power to dispose of your five different devices vying for your attention when you’re feeling “bored”before bed. These are like electronic drugs that makes everything enjoyable instantly available to us at a tap of a finger. However the joys coming out of screen are impulsive and transient, which increasingly makes me long for the simple and enduring fun time of the early days.

robbyking 6y ago

> I've lived the majority of my life (mid 30s now) waiting for "my time". As expected, becoming a father cost me a lot of free time, but when I started working from home I lost my commute (usually walking, sometimes biking) and that was the one that really stung. It was only a half hour or so each way, but I used that time to catch up with friends, listen to podcasts or music, or just let my mind wander. Now I have to really make an effort to carve out "me time," and with the Covid time tax it's really difficult.

graeme 6y ago
This may seem overly simple, but is it possble for you to start and end the workday with a 30 min walk? I’ve worked from home for a decade and that’s part of my routine. I go through a local park. You’d have to negotiate this with your spouse, but you were already using that time before, so in theory it ought to be reasonable. Unless your kid was born this tear that’s a but trickier. Burning out does nobody any good in the long run and exercise and walking are human needs.
- ska 6y ago
  I did something like this once; i had a 30 min walking commute to my office which was perfect (and was lucky enough this was a pleasant waterfront walk). Then I moved cities and went remote - no commute. After about a month I missed it enough that I set up a few 30-60ish minute "loops" and walked one or two of them every day (i.e. 2 short ones or 1 long one) and this worked pretty well. If I found myself making excuses not to go, I'd mix in an errand that was about a 30 min walk away. Other people I know use a dog as an excuse for this sort of pattern too.
- mogrim 6y ago
  I find the easiest time to do this is at midday. It's a great way to wake you up from your after-lunch slump. The kids aren't around so no one's expecting you to help take care of them. And it's a lot easier to explain to your partner that you have to work 30min more, than it is to tell them you're heading out on your own for a walk :)
mattalbie 6y ago

nend 6y ago

This same phenomenon is seen not just with work/leisure (with time being the limiting factor), but also with food/leisure (with money being the limiting factor). Studies show that people who are malnourished due to living in poverty, still spend money on leisure activities despite not having enough food to eat. Leisure time is important for people. Even if you enjoy your work, it's still work, and you're still going to need leisure time. The cause is probably different from person to person, but the solution isn't going to be just "work less", but prioritizing, scheduling, and getting the most out of your "leisure time", which also means different things for different people.

yourabstraction 6y ago
Yes, I think scheduling plays a large role in things too. But, the main thing I'm getting at is how to find creative ways to integrate leisure time into your working day. Taking a nap in the sun at lunch time not only gives me extra leisure time, it also makes the afternoon work more enjoyable. This is a huge win for me, so I do it often, yet I've rarely ever had a colleague who did the same. I do have to remind myself that I speak from a place of privilege with extremely in demand skills being a software engineer. But I feel a lot of people in a number of different lines of work fail to take advantage of the freedom they have.
friendlybus 6y ago
Leisure time is hard to define recently. People are escaping, true relaxing used to come from a hard day's work that passed on the gift of life to someone else and you could rest easy, then finally throw a joyous festival together. Today's leisure time is closer to busy escapism than relaxation, for the poor at least.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

godot 6y ago

The thing is for many other people it's not about enjoying work or not. I enjoy my job a lot, it's the best one I've had in the past decade. I also have a toddler. After I finish work promptly at 5 (sometimes before, and I work from home), it's a non-stop series of "work" bathing for the kid, either playing with the kid (while my spouse cooks) or I cook (and she plays with the kid, so either way it's busy work for both of us). For anyone with a 2-year old, you know that dinner time is not relaxation. It's trying to stuff food into your mouth as quickly as possible while being busy either feeding her, picking up her toys, or calming her down. Then it's dishes, maybe a little bit more toddler play time, then it's the whole routine of diapers, brushing for her, changing into pajamas, and trying to put her to sleep which takes another 2 hours. I love both my work and my family (and my kid). But the fact is, I have no personal free time until about 11pm. If my spouse has household matters to discuss with me, that takes us to maybe 11:45pm if I'm lucky. And if I don't go to bed before 12am, I pretty much automatically get a migraine the next day. You know what? I still stay up late anyway. Sometimes it's hobby side projects, sometimes it's doing absolutely nothing but useless internet surfing. I can't even help it.

tyre 6y ago
When I read things like this, it makes me not want to have children. From friends, it doesn’t sound like your experience is much different. I’m sure you’re biased and it’s culturally unacceptable (to say the least) to say that you’d rather not have had kids, but I wonder how often you think about that loss of individuality? Maybe it’s that what you’d do were you to have the time wouldn’t be as “productive” in a broad, undefinable “life” sense? Or that intellectualizing “take away this kid” is too emotionally fraught to even consider? It feels amoral to ask these questions, but as I reach the time when friends are having kids and the biological clock of partners becomes a real factor, I’m not sure how to know.
- ses1984 6y ago
  My experience hasn't been the same, I have two kids age 4 and 6, and my experience has been more laid back. Most of the time I spend with this kids is fun. Sure, there can be bad times that are stressful and/or exhausting but it's mostly been very rewarding. My kids are asleep by 830 or 9pm, I'm not sure why this person feels they don't have free time until 11pm, that seems like an exaggeration to me. Even when they are awake, they rarely occupy both my wife and I full time, unless we're choosing to spend quality time with them. Sometimes just one of us watches them while the other one had time to relax or catch up on work. It's not like my wife and I were globetrotting before kids anyway. Having kids is far more interesting than the same old, same old routine. I don't really feel like I'm missing out on things I would have been doing before kids.

pmiller2 6y ago

> ...not getting exploited by others. Good luck with this, if you live in a capitalist country.

dTal 6y ago

For what it's worth, I find that getting up earlier doesn't just shift my free time - it results in a qualitatively different (and better) day. Something about starting the day with "me time" puts me on a nice trajectory, compared to the stressful experience of rolling out of bed and immediately confronting the specter of duty.