4 ms·

Lysol Is Making More Sanitizer Than Ever. In Pandemic America, It’s Not Enough

34 points by prostoalex 6y ago

Scoundreller 6y ago
> It’s an ode to the commode, a throne room lined with 104 toilets from around the world, arranged inches apart in three aisles beneath national flags. Tanks and filters in an adjacent room replicate the water conditions in different countries, and above each bowl, mechanized plungers test the toilets at different flush rates. I think they’ve missed an opportunity to find the best toilet. But I suppose that wouldn’t be good for their product’s sales.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
twoodfin 6y ago
It’s shocking to me that nine months into this thing I have no idea if fomite transmission is something worth worrying about. And that an article like this doesn’t even bother to try to summarize the case that aggressive use of sanitizers like Lysol will actually cut transmission vs. simply kill the virus on surfaces where it might not matter. Nine months! What a colossal failure of epidemiology and public health.
- baggy_trough 6y ago
  Don't expect any answers to practical questions when there's a neurotic narrative to promote. Hygiene theater for everyone!
- diogenescynic 6y ago
  And Americans still aren’t even asking for a public healthcare option or universal healthcare. Americans kinda get what we deserve.
  - HarryHirsch 6y ago
    Maybe North Dakota will take the lead. Right now, officially 10.2 % of the population have or have caught covid - there's going to be an ungodly amount of people with covid sequelae. Maybe the state legislature will rouse itself to pass some kind of medicare-for-all.
    - thatguy0900 6y ago
      I would find it surprising if a individual state passes medicare for all during the most expensive possible time to implement it. This seems like it would have to be a federally funded thing.
- alexashka 6y ago
  Why would a product ad include information that may negatively affect sales? :)
- raverbashing 6y ago
  The fomite discussion is definitely worth more studies Though to be honest, it seems a lot of people underwash their hands, and the sanitizer might help with other diseases
- tptacek 6y ago
  They're not all the same month! I think there was an emerging consensus by summer that surface transmission wasn't a priority concern, but now that the weather is changing and with it the humidity, there's a lot more uncertainty.
- beisner 6y ago
  Surface transmission is almost certainly an extremely unlikely vector for COVID-19. I tried doing some research the other day, and could find no information supporting the notion that surface transmission is likely. It’s also telling that the CDC’s guidelines for initiating quarantine are solely based on physical proximity to someone with covid for an extended period. That said, if others have found evidence that surface transmission is likely (or even possible), I would love to see that evidence. Now that we are quite a ways into the pandemic, there should be some scientific consensus emerging on how/where transmission is likely.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  Is anyone else confused or put off by the term "fomite"? It has such an odd sound/etymology, isn't used in anything close to daily language, and doesn't sound like something to do with surface droplets or particles that transmit disease. I would think a different word could help popularize awareness better.
  - byecomputer 6y ago
    Perhaps in verbal conversation it makes sense to define it in place, but we're on the internet. Just highlight the word and search it. I wouldn't say that in most contexts, but considering the demographic here, a lot of conversation would be bogged down if we were defining more obscure terms for each other every time they come up. Either way, the comment is about how we don't exactly know whether fomite transmission is cause for concern, so popularizing awareness doesn't seem necessary (at least until that question is answered in the affirmative).
    - MattGaiser 6y ago
      If the majority need to search something to understand your message, that is not a communications success. I am all for telling people to look it up, but most people realistically are not going to do that.
  - whateveracct 6y ago
    This is HN - where SVers cosplay as experts in areas like epidemiology and astrophysics.
- mandeepj 6y ago
  Gotta educate yourself. No one else can do it for you. 5 secs of google search led me to the following site. Although, few months ago, I also read a similar statement here on HN that COVID does not spread from surface to surface but it's not completely ruled out. > Droplets can also land on surfaces and objects and be transferred by touch. A person may get COVID-19 by touching the surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or eyes. * Spread from touching surfaces is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads. * Source - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#Spread https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#Spread
- vondur 6y ago
  The NY Times had an article that the virus doesn’t really spread on surfaces: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/world/asia/covid-cleaning.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/world/asia/covid-cleaning...
supernova87a 6y ago
Am I odd or just a former biochemist? I just use bottles of isopropyl alcohol around the house with paper towels and don't need all this Lysol/ammonium stuff that leaves semi-sticky residue and film everywhere. Alcohol was scarce for a while but last 2 months you see it getting restocked more reliably.
- Mountain_Skies 6y ago
  The grocery store I shop at has several dozen large bottles of alcohol hand sanitizer on the discount table, marked down about 80%. They've been there for a couple of weeks. Either they're not selling well even at a discount or they keep restocking the discount table with a larger overstock in the backroom.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    There is a glut of hand sanitizer nobody wants. It isn't as useful as plain alcohol.
- bonniemuffin 6y ago
  Same, I worked in bioscience labs and I also just use spray bottles of isopropanol around the house, just like what I used in the lab. If it's good enough for working with human tissues and infectious HIV derivatives, it's good enough for my kitchen counters. Sometimes I add a few drops of lavender essential oil if I want to feel fancy.
- chadcmulligan 6y ago
  Does it dry your hands? I read when this started you should mix it with aloe vera or some such so your skin doesn't dry out.
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    Maybe a little, but just for momentary cleaning it's not a big issue. Wash hands and put on some lotion afterwards anyway. Just don't clean for 30 minutes without gloves on. It gets absorbed through skin (like all solvents). Regarding aloe, I prefer no extra stuff in the cleaning solution that gets deposited all over whatever I'm trying to clean.
umvi 6y ago
Is this hyper cleanliness and germ aversion going to have any unexpected side effects on our immune systems?
- klodolph 6y ago
  I assume people who use spray cleaner more will be at higher risk of lung disease, as is known from e.g. people who work as maids.
- bonniemuffin 6y ago
  I'm a little freaked out that my baby is turning 1 year old and has never caught a cold or had any kind of sniffles, because we've been so isolated. Surely I'm supposed to be exposing her to germs to build up her immune system or something?
  - pertymcpert 6y ago
    Are they not putting all sorts of stuff in their mouths around the house yet? It’s not germ from other people, but my little one does stuff that disgusts me, but I’m too tired to always stop it.
    - bonniemuffin 6y ago
      Oh, yeah, she eats dirt, kisses the dog, and licks the pavement at the playground for some reason, so she's definitely getting exposure to a wide variety of nature's finest "germs", just not the sorts of human-infectious sniffling diseases that circulate in day cares and schools.
      - tolbish 6y ago
        I suppose you could find what you are looking for by checking out the health data of homeschooled children compared to non-homeschooled children.
      - nyokodo 6y ago
        Her immune system is getting plenty of work. She’s just not getting the viruses that are really good at evading the immune system. What doesn’t kill you does not necessarily make you stronger. She’ll get them when she’s a little older and her immune system is a little stronger and she’ll be fine.

34 points by prostoalex 6y ago

> It’s an ode to the commode, a throne room lined with 104 toilets from around the world, arranged inches apart in three aisles beneath national flags. Tanks and filters in an adjacent room replicate the water conditions in different countries, and above each bowl, mechanized plungers test the toilets at different flush rates. I think they’ve missed an opportunity to find the best toilet. But I suppose that wouldn’t be good for their product’s sales.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

twoodfin 6y ago

It’s shocking to me that nine months into this thing I have no idea if fomite transmission is something worth worrying about. And that an article like this doesn’t even bother to try to summarize the case that aggressive use of sanitizers like Lysol will actually cut transmission vs. simply kill the virus on surfaces where it might not matter. Nine months! What a colossal failure of epidemiology and public health.

baggy_trough 6y ago
Don't expect any answers to practical questions when there's a neurotic narrative to promote. Hygiene theater for everyone!
diogenescynic 6y ago
And Americans still aren’t even asking for a public healthcare option or universal healthcare. Americans kinda get what we deserve.
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  Maybe North Dakota will take the lead. Right now, officially 10.2 % of the population have or have caught covid - there's going to be an ungodly amount of people with covid sequelae. Maybe the state legislature will rouse itself to pass some kind of medicare-for-all.
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    I would find it surprising if a individual state passes medicare for all during the most expensive possible time to implement it. This seems like it would have to be a federally funded thing.
alexashka 6y ago
Why would a product ad include information that may negatively affect sales? :)
raverbashing 6y ago
The fomite discussion is definitely worth more studies Though to be honest, it seems a lot of people underwash their hands, and the sanitizer might help with other diseases
tptacek 6y ago
They're not all the same month! I think there was an emerging consensus by summer that surface transmission wasn't a priority concern, but now that the weather is changing and with it the humidity, there's a lot more uncertainty.
beisner 6y ago
Surface transmission is almost certainly an extremely unlikely vector for COVID-19. I tried doing some research the other day, and could find no information supporting the notion that surface transmission is likely. It’s also telling that the CDC’s guidelines for initiating quarantine are solely based on physical proximity to someone with covid for an extended period. That said, if others have found evidence that surface transmission is likely (or even possible), I would love to see that evidence. Now that we are quite a ways into the pandemic, there should be some scientific consensus emerging on how/where transmission is likely.
supernova87a 6y ago
Is anyone else confused or put off by the term "fomite"? It has such an odd sound/etymology, isn't used in anything close to daily language, and doesn't sound like something to do with surface droplets or particles that transmit disease. I would think a different word could help popularize awareness better.
- byecomputer 6y ago
  Perhaps in verbal conversation it makes sense to define it in place, but we're on the internet. Just highlight the word and search it. I wouldn't say that in most contexts, but considering the demographic here, a lot of conversation would be bogged down if we were defining more obscure terms for each other every time they come up. Either way, the comment is about how we don't exactly know whether fomite transmission is cause for concern, so popularizing awareness doesn't seem necessary (at least until that question is answered in the affirmative).
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    If the majority need to search something to understand your message, that is not a communications success. I am all for telling people to look it up, but most people realistically are not going to do that.
- whateveracct 6y ago
  This is HN - where SVers cosplay as experts in areas like epidemiology and astrophysics.
mandeepj 6y ago
Gotta educate yourself. No one else can do it for you. 5 secs of google search led me to the following site. Although, few months ago, I also read a similar statement here on HN that COVID does not spread from surface to surface but it's not completely ruled out. > Droplets can also land on surfaces and objects and be transferred by touch. A person may get COVID-19 by touching the surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or eyes. * Spread from touching surfaces is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads. * Source - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#Spread https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#Spread
vondur 6y ago
The NY Times had an article that the virus doesn’t really spread on surfaces: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/world/asia/covid-cleaning.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/world/asia/covid-cleaning...

supernova87a 6y ago

Am I odd or just a former biochemist? I just use bottles of isopropyl alcohol around the house with paper towels and don't need all this Lysol/ammonium stuff that leaves semi-sticky residue and film everywhere. Alcohol was scarce for a while but last 2 months you see it getting restocked more reliably.

Mountain_Skies 6y ago
The grocery store I shop at has several dozen large bottles of alcohol hand sanitizer on the discount table, marked down about 80%. They've been there for a couple of weeks. Either they're not selling well even at a discount or they keep restocking the discount table with a larger overstock in the backroom.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  There is a glut of hand sanitizer nobody wants. It isn't as useful as plain alcohol.
bonniemuffin 6y ago
Same, I worked in bioscience labs and I also just use spray bottles of isopropanol around the house, just like what I used in the lab. If it's good enough for working with human tissues and infectious HIV derivatives, it's good enough for my kitchen counters. Sometimes I add a few drops of lavender essential oil if I want to feel fancy.
chadcmulligan 6y ago
Does it dry your hands? I read when this started you should mix it with aloe vera or some such so your skin doesn't dry out.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  Maybe a little, but just for momentary cleaning it's not a big issue. Wash hands and put on some lotion afterwards anyway. Just don't clean for 30 minutes without gloves on. It gets absorbed through skin (like all solvents). Regarding aloe, I prefer no extra stuff in the cleaning solution that gets deposited all over whatever I'm trying to clean.

umvi 6y ago

Is this hyper cleanliness and germ aversion going to have any unexpected side effects on our immune systems?

klodolph 6y ago
I assume people who use spray cleaner more will be at higher risk of lung disease, as is known from e.g. people who work as maids.
bonniemuffin 6y ago
I'm a little freaked out that my baby is turning 1 year old and has never caught a cold or had any kind of sniffles, because we've been so isolated. Surely I'm supposed to be exposing her to germs to build up her immune system or something?
- pertymcpert 6y ago
  Are they not putting all sorts of stuff in their mouths around the house yet? It’s not germ from other people, but my little one does stuff that disgusts me, but I’m too tired to always stop it.
  - bonniemuffin 6y ago
    Oh, yeah, she eats dirt, kisses the dog, and licks the pavement at the playground for some reason, so she's definitely getting exposure to a wide variety of nature's finest "germs", just not the sorts of human-infectious sniffling diseases that circulate in day cares and schools.
    - tolbish 6y ago
      I suppose you could find what you are looking for by checking out the health data of homeschooled children compared to non-homeschooled children.
    - nyokodo 6y ago
      Her immune system is getting plenty of work. She’s just not getting the viruses that are really good at evading the immune system. What doesn’t kill you does not necessarily make you stronger. She’ll get them when she’s a little older and her immune system is a little stronger and she’ll be fine.