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Not sure why people are so worried about developers getting trapped by locked down systems. I have plenty of other PC’s, running Linux, *BSD, Windows much less

Not sure why people are so worried about developers getting trapped by locked down systems. I have plenty of other PC’s, running Linux, *BSD, Windows much less locked down. I’m very aware Apple is controlling of their platforms. No I’m not thrilled about certain aspects of the M1 platforms, but most platforms I’ve used feel locked down in some shape or form. If, in the case Apple tries some of the outlandish theories out there, I’ll simply cease to use it and probably trash Apple then as it will be useless to me, but I’m not locked into anything.

amelius 6y ago
> If, in the case Apple tries some of the outlandish theories out there, I’ll simply cease to use it and probably trash Apple then as it will be useless to me, but I’m not locked into anything. And what if it is too late? E.g. Apple owning the entire space you want to develop apps for? Or, if this seems an impossible theory to you, how about competitors copying Apple's model? Please understand that as a consumer you have power, but if you don't use it you can end up like the proverbial boiled frog.
- RONROC 6y ago
  I can understand this level of pearl-clutching when we’re talking about social media, but I just don’t see Apple as the five-alarm fire it’s made out to be. Practically speaking being “locked” into a system would only be a possibility in a world where highly distributed, massively supported OS’s (Windows, Linux) didn’t exist. Anti-apple people have a hard time fathoming the degree to which many other “power users” are okay with privacy/security trade offs if it results in a more robust/stable environment that just works. Problem is, it’s being framed as some sort of Faustian bargain when it’s really not that big of a deal.
  - skulk 6y ago
    > that just works Until it doesn't. I can open my Thinkpad (W530) and replace parts in it that die. Can you say the same for your Macbook? Are you okay with a future where everyone follows Apple's example because it generates more profits, where right-to-repair is a thing of the past? I know that sounds alarmist, but it's definitely the trajectory I see.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      When I have parts in my MacBook Air die, I guess I'll find out. It's 10 years old now and doesn't show any sign of breakage. I'm pretty sure it's paid itself off several times over. Since the new Air lacks even a fan, it seems even less likely to need service.
      - skulk 6y ago
        This reads like: "I guess I'll find out whether my privacy is being respected when I actually have something to hide."
    - pixel_fcker 6y ago
      People that buy MacBooks don’t care, or at least they don’t care enough to buy something else. As to your second point, MacBooks have been available for how long now? And yet thinkpads still exist.
      - skulk 6y ago
        > And yet thinkpads still exist The X1 Carbon doesn't have upgradeable RAM. On some level, I'm convinced that Lenovo wants to follow in Apple's footsteps and is testing the waters with the X1 Carbon series.
        noisy_boy 6y ago
        X1 extreme does; both RAM and SSD can be upgraded
    - wulfklaue 6y ago
      The EU is introducing legal laws that will combat planned obsolescence. And that protect the right to repair. The EU is also fed up with manufactures thinking they can get away with everything. Those laws will also have a effect across the world because its easier to design on product that applies to the strictest laws, then two products. So yea, Apple their gravy train is going to run into a massive road block. In the US states are also starting to rectify laws that push the right to repair. Its one of the reasons why Apple "suddenly" allows repair shops to buy parts. As a way to change the narrative. Of course that buying parts has "issues" Apple style. A grifter is going to grift.
- jmnicolas 6y ago
  You have the same power than someone that votes: 1 vote which is not much.
floatingatoll 6y ago
All x86_64 Windows processor manufacturers are supporting the Microsoft firmware that offers secure attestation about whether your system was booted securely or not, so if by lockdown you mean “I can make undetectable changes to my system”, that’s coming to an end as rapidly as they can bring it to market (before Apple locks them out of it). You’ll still have the option to alter whatever you please, but software and websites will have the option to refuse service to your modified system.
- the_only_law 6y ago
  I’m aware that Windows is locked down and even with Linux or *BSD parts of the platform you’re running on are mildly concerning at least. However, as you said I can still alter what I wish, whereas a lot of theories I’ve heard about Apple here recently involve turning the Mac platform into some sort of crippled sandbox in the spirit of mobile devices, or worse like some consoles that are so locked down the hackers haven’t beat it yet. I do believe Microsoft would love to head down a path like that, but are too burned with the massive frankenstein of legacy tech that is Windows. I also tend to share a bleak view of the future of computing as many of the people voicing concerns, I just don’t believe that a niche set of consumers can overpower that of the majority who could care less if you ranted to them about control or privacy or whatever.
- userbinator 6y ago
  but software and websites will have the option to refuse service to your modified system. Oh hell no! This is the scenario that Stallman warned us about, over two decades ago: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html
  - pfranz 6y ago
    At least in the US, my understanding is a 1975 law, the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, protects warranties on modified products as long as the modification didn't cause the issue. It comes up all the time with cars since there's an active mod community. That being said, I usually backup and "factory restore" my computers before servicing. Mostly because I don't want to hand out my password or hand over my personal data, but I expect them to test that its fixed and that's easier in a generic OS. I also think it'd be odd to hand over a Macbook Pro (or even a Microsoft Surface) with Linux installed and expect their random, low-level tech to asses things.

amelius 6y ago

> If, in the case Apple tries some of the outlandish theories out there, I’ll simply cease to use it and probably trash Apple then as it will be useless to me, but I’m not locked into anything. And what if it is too late? E.g. Apple owning the entire space you want to develop apps for? Or, if this seems an impossible theory to you, how about competitors copying Apple's model? Please understand that as a consumer you have power, but if you don't use it you can end up like the proverbial boiled frog.

RONROC 6y ago
I can understand this level of pearl-clutching when we’re talking about social media, but I just don’t see Apple as the five-alarm fire it’s made out to be. Practically speaking being “locked” into a system would only be a possibility in a world where highly distributed, massively supported OS’s (Windows, Linux) didn’t exist. Anti-apple people have a hard time fathoming the degree to which many other “power users” are okay with privacy/security trade offs if it results in a more robust/stable environment that just works. Problem is, it’s being framed as some sort of Faustian bargain when it’s really not that big of a deal.
- skulk 6y ago
  > that just works Until it doesn't. I can open my Thinkpad (W530) and replace parts in it that die. Can you say the same for your Macbook? Are you okay with a future where everyone follows Apple's example because it generates more profits, where right-to-repair is a thing of the past? I know that sounds alarmist, but it's definitely the trajectory I see.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    When I have parts in my MacBook Air die, I guess I'll find out. It's 10 years old now and doesn't show any sign of breakage. I'm pretty sure it's paid itself off several times over. Since the new Air lacks even a fan, it seems even less likely to need service.
    - skulk 6y ago
      This reads like: "I guess I'll find out whether my privacy is being respected when I actually have something to hide."
  - pixel_fcker 6y ago
    People that buy MacBooks don’t care, or at least they don’t care enough to buy something else. As to your second point, MacBooks have been available for how long now? And yet thinkpads still exist.
    - skulk 6y ago
      > And yet thinkpads still exist The X1 Carbon doesn't have upgradeable RAM. On some level, I'm convinced that Lenovo wants to follow in Apple's footsteps and is testing the waters with the X1 Carbon series.
      - noisy_boy 6y ago
        X1 extreme does; both RAM and SSD can be upgraded
  - wulfklaue 6y ago
    The EU is introducing legal laws that will combat planned obsolescence. And that protect the right to repair. The EU is also fed up with manufactures thinking they can get away with everything. Those laws will also have a effect across the world because its easier to design on product that applies to the strictest laws, then two products. So yea, Apple their gravy train is going to run into a massive road block. In the US states are also starting to rectify laws that push the right to repair. Its one of the reasons why Apple "suddenly" allows repair shops to buy parts. As a way to change the narrative. Of course that buying parts has "issues" Apple style. A grifter is going to grift.
jmnicolas 6y ago
You have the same power than someone that votes: 1 vote which is not much.

floatingatoll 6y ago

All x86_64 Windows processor manufacturers are supporting the Microsoft firmware that offers secure attestation about whether your system was booted securely or not, so if by lockdown you mean “I can make undetectable changes to my system”, that’s coming to an end as rapidly as they can bring it to market (before Apple locks them out of it). You’ll still have the option to alter whatever you please, but software and websites will have the option to refuse service to your modified system.

the_only_law 6y ago
I’m aware that Windows is locked down and even with Linux or *BSD parts of the platform you’re running on are mildly concerning at least. However, as you said I can still alter what I wish, whereas a lot of theories I’ve heard about Apple here recently involve turning the Mac platform into some sort of crippled sandbox in the spirit of mobile devices, or worse like some consoles that are so locked down the hackers haven’t beat it yet. I do believe Microsoft would love to head down a path like that, but are too burned with the massive frankenstein of legacy tech that is Windows. I also tend to share a bleak view of the future of computing as many of the people voicing concerns, I just don’t believe that a niche set of consumers can overpower that of the majority who could care less if you ranted to them about control or privacy or whatever.
userbinator 6y ago
but software and websites will have the option to refuse service to your modified system. Oh hell no! This is the scenario that Stallman warned us about, over two decades ago: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html
- pfranz 6y ago
  At least in the US, my understanding is a 1975 law, the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, protects warranties on modified products as long as the modification didn't cause the issue. It comes up all the time with cars since there's an active mod community. That being said, I usually backup and "factory restore" my computers before servicing. Mostly because I don't want to hand out my password or hand over my personal data, but I expect them to test that its fixed and that's easier in a generic OS. I also think it'd be odd to hand over a Macbook Pro (or even a Microsoft Surface) with Linux installed and expect their random, low-level tech to asses things.