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These types of posts are popular on HN and generally suggest that people are bad at realizing when a product wasn't designed for them. It's a bit like complaini

These types of posts are popular on HN and generally suggest that people are bad at realizing when a product wasn't designed for them. It's a bit like complaining that a drill should have a flat back so you can also use it as a hammer. Sure, it might be technically possible, but not only will it never be as good as just using a hammer for the job, it would make the drilling functionality worse. If you're trying to use your iPad as a Mac, you will always be disappointed and rightfully so. These are distinctly different form factors with different primary inputs, and they should focus on what they excel at. Adding keyboard and trackpad support to iPadOS wasn't to help us developers move to an iPad, it was to help people whose only computer is an iPad fill in some missing gaps in their workflow. However, if you're planning to attach a keyboard to your iPad most of the time, just get a MacBook Air instead. On the flip side, if you're getting an iPad Pro, you should really be planning to buy the Pencil with it to take advantage of its strengths. Otherwise, you are probably looking for a consumption device (iPad Air or iPad no-adjective), but then you shouldn't be surprised that it doesn't help you create.

melling 6y ago
No, this one of those “There are two kinds of people in the world” “Those that have imagination and those that don’t“ I am really disappointed that Google or Microsoft haven’t don’t a better job with tablets. Apple needs more competition. The laptop of the future is a better iPad. Remember when Apple told us we didn’t need bigger iPhones? If it didn’t fit in one hand, you were essentially doing it wrong.
deergomoo 6y ago
Normally I would agree with this, but I think in this case Apple would have to do so little to make this a suitable enough device to the software development crowd, and without affecting how the device works for everyone else, that I wish they'd just do it. All they'd need to do is allow sideloading. Even if they left all the other sometimes-problematic security aspects in place (like enforced sandboxing), it would be enough. People would find a way to do what they need to. I don't need it to be a full replacement for my Mac, but it sucks that I can't use this amazing, capable device to a bit of work on my sofa or on the train. Of course, they'll never do it, because money. Even if 99% of apps stayed on the App Store, the highest earning 1% would be sure to leave.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  But why would anyone want to develop on an iPad - on a sofa or anywhere? You will need a keyboard anyway, and by the time you've added that you may as well just get a MacBook Air and use the device emulation in Xcode instead of trying to run natively. Sideloading will never happen - not because of money, but because it makes no sense to destroy the security model for 95% of users just because 5% of users want to run as root, or some nearly-but-not-quite approximation.
  - deergomoo 6y ago
    > But why would anyone want to develop on an iPad - on a sofa or anywhere? You will need a keyboard anyway, and by the time you've added that you may as well just get a MacBook Air and use the device emulation in Xcode instead of trying to run natively Because then I wouldn't need to own a laptop. I prefer work on a desktop most of the time, and I already own an iPad Pro. It seems silly that I need to own a third device for what basically amounts to company policy. And the advantage the iPad has is that the keyboard is detachable. When I'm just browsing the internet or watching Netflix I can remove it and hold the device in my hands—something I can't do with a laptop. > Sideloading will never happen - not because of money, but because it makes no sense to destroy the security model for 95% of users just because 5% of users want to run as root, or some nearly-but-not-quite approximation. There's no reason it couldn't be buried in settings and approved on a per-developer basis. This is how it already works for enterprise apps: you install the app via a browser, but then you have to go to Settings to confirm you trust the distribution certificate used. The only change required would be to allow any developer cert rather than just those belonging to the enterprise programme. This is essentially exactly how notarised apps work on the Mac.
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
      I tried this with a Surface, because I thought exactly the same thing - I can watch movies in bed without a keyboard, and add the keyboard to code, and the pen thing will be awesome, and so on. My experience was that the imprefections in the experience were enough of a distraction so that I never got really deep into flow. I could do quick bug-fix sessions, sure, and write emails, and jot down ideas. But it absolutely did not replace a laptop. I eventually gave it to my girlfriend who loved it because she could do all those things, and then she got a tech job and had to get a proper laptop for all the same reasons.
shuckles 6y ago
I agree mostly with your theory of iPad, but I believe it is Apple Product Marketing’s job to lay that out very clearly, if not explicitly, but they have not in my opinion. The messaging about “Pro” iPads makes the platform aspire to replace your Mac, but in practice I see iPad as a field computer for environments where a Mac is simply inappropriate.
- m463 6y ago
  > it is Apple Product Marketing’s job Actually, Marketing's job is not that. The job of marketing is to tell half the story, and that is the favorable half. If marketing is selling a pickup truck, it should tell you that it can carry stuff in the bed, more than before and it will be easy for you to carry it. They won't say people rarely carry stuff in the bed, that you should really rent a truck when moving a refrigerator or moving your house, and that a sedan is more practical. They should not open their mouth, unless it is to say you are really a pickup truck person and your dreams are tied up in this pickup.
  - lisperforlife 6y ago
    This. The most underrated comment. :-)
  - ghaff 6y ago
    And Apple clearly pitches the iPad towards creative types, not just consumers, but mostly draw rather than code or otherwise type. (And they don't emphasize that you probably can't begin to draw like all the artists effortlessly doing so in their ads :-))
    - egypturnash 6y ago
      My experience as a pro artist is that it takes about five years of directed practice to go from “I like to draw” to “I draw well enough to make a living at it”, followed by another 5-10y to get to “I just sort of move my hand and Art happens without much thought because I have internalized a ton of stuff that I used to have to do on paper”. YMMV.
prox 6y ago
I still feel a lot of people haven’t read the book About Face, on interaction design. The OP would have been unnecessary. Different form factors have what they call different postures. It’s a lot less sovereign than a full desktop or laptop. It’s a lot more an auxiliary device, or leisure device. The Ipads sit alongside the spectrum, the pro is more sovereign, the budget ipad is more auxiliary.
cm2187 6y ago
I am actually genuinely curious of what is the use case for doing coding or advanced video editing on an ipad rather than a laptop. Like why do you need that level of mobility? To edit a movie on the toilet seat of a plane? I get the hacker toying mentality of "it would be cool if I could run Doom on my washing machine's LCD". But is there really a market for it?
- donkeyd 6y ago
  For me, I love the video editing part. Allows me to easily edit videos on trips to share with family and friends. Works much better than on a phone and requires a lot less hardware than a laptop.
- matwood 6y ago
  > But is there really a market for it? I think there was until the m1 air. My iPad pro is powerful and very portable. The only thing holding it back from being my complete on the go machine was lack of software around coding. Now that the m1 air has come out, I will likely stop using the keyboard with my iPad, and just use the air on the go. The iPad will go back to my drawing and photo sorting/editing device.
  - cm2187 6y ago
    There are still great use cases for an ipad. My two favorites are browsing the web or reading books from a bathtub and watching movies when travelling!
    - gumby 6y ago
      Do you use it in a zip-loc bag like bezos does with his kindle? I’ve wondered if that works.
      - cm2187 6y ago
        No, the ipad doesn’t mind a few droplets of water. But you need a “book cover” like ipad case [1], that you can hold with one hand by sticking the finger between the ipad and the cover part of the case, so you hold it firmly with very little effort. [1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/JETech-Apple-10-2-Inch-Model-Generation-Black/dp/B07QPV9Z7X/ref=sr_1_5 https://www.amazon.co.uk/JETech-Apple-10-2-Inch-Model-Genera...
bhickey 6y ago
> It's a bit like complaining that a drill should have a flat back so you can also use it as a hammer. Sure, it might be technically possible, but not only will it never be as good as just using a hammer for the job, it would make the drilling functionality worse. You might want to rethink your example! https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Anchors/ROCPEC https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Anchors/ROCPEC
- pilsetnieks 6y ago
  A very good example actually. As a developer (in the construction sense) you wouldn't use a mountain climbing hand drill to build a house. You would have specialized electric drills, and standalone hammer (or several) since charging and weight isn't really an issue there. That hand drill is exactly the equivalent of shoehorning any IDE onto an iPad, as in, doing the best within severe constraints.
neya 6y ago
Here's another perspective - The ipad in my developer eyes is a powerful computer. It can do much more than just people use it mostly for - reading books and gaming. In fact, I'm using an iPad air right now and feel held back by the limitations of iOS imposed on me as a developer. I can't write code on an iPad (reliably). The machine itself is capable, so is the OS, but the narrow use cases Apple wants to portray it for gets in my way. In fact, I was so frustrated, I was even looking at some alternatives. The only thing that gets closest to what I want is a Surface Go - a full fledged windows computer that can literally do everything I want (SSH, Coding, etc) I would switch instantly in a heart beat. But, the longer term consequences of an ecosystem switch pull me back. I'm invested in the Apple ecosystem heavily at this point and would much rather have something from Apple that also covers developers' use cases. I'm sure even Apple employees doing programming would like to see something like that. But, Apple needs to listen to make it happen. And they don't. Hence, such posts. At least, that's what I can infer. P.S - I'm far from an Apple "fanboy". I'm a developer first and use whatever helps me achieve my end goal.
- ghaff 6y ago
  I actually get the desire for convergence between the tablet and laptop. After all, the hardware is basically capable of both roles, potentially ergonomics aside (I haven't encountered a removeable keyboard that really works like a laptop does which I often use on my lap). At the same time, it may be worth observing that tablets took off when Apple basically threw out laptop compatibility and made tablets their own (well, phone-related) thing. So convergence would be interesting but I don't want them to de-optimize either the tablet or the laptop to do so. (Though I expect they'll get there at some point and have no doubt they're experimenting internally.)
  - thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
    >> I actually get the desire for convergence between the tablet and laptop. After all, the hardware is basically capable of both roles, potentially ergonomics aside. This is why there are "two-in-one" laptops that have fully functional touchscreens that convert to tablet mode for both Windows and Chromebook operating systems. >> Apple basically threw out laptop compatibility and made tablets their own (well, phone-related) thing. Thus this article begging Apple to reconsider. Wouldn't it be awesome if the M1 Macbook Air had a fully functional tablet mode that let it act as an iPad Pro? :) For whatever reason Apple does not think so. :(
appleflaxen 6y ago
Ahh, yes; the old hacker credo: "it wasn't designed for me, so I'll leave it."
igravious 6y ago
nit pick! > (iPad Air or iPad no-adjective) iPad Air (and iPad Pro) are so-called open form compound nouns of the noun+noun variety – nary an adjective in sight. See https://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/nouns/compound-noun.html https://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/nouns/com... and https://www.ef.com/wwen/english-resources/english-grammar/compound-nouns/ https://www.ef.com/wwen/english-resources/english-grammar/co... for reference. English rarely uses postnomial adjectives, the exception being archaic, Latinate, or poetic language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpositive_adjective https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpositive_adjective
- anamexis 6y ago
  From your first link: "A compound noun is formed when two words are combined to make a completely new word. This means that the meaning of the new word must be significantly different than either of its parts individually." iPad Air and iPad Pro are not significantly different than iPad individually. "Air" and "Pro" are modifying "iPad." Also, I couldn't find anywhere Apple refers to these iPads in the plural, but they definitely call them "AirPods Pro," which points to postnominal adjective.
  - igravious 6y ago
    Hmm. The product is Airpods – Apple Airpods, not Apple Airpod. When you buy them you get a pair of Airpods, the same way you get a pair of shoes. I bet you people say "Airpods Pros" … and they do! https://www.google.com/search?q=%22airpods+pros%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22airpods+pros%22 (By your logic, they shouldn't – by your logic the plural of Airpods Pro is juest Airpods Pro. I guess iPad Air means iPad (Air variety) and iPad Pro means iPad (Professional variety). So it does seem that Air and Pro qualify or modify what an iPad is. Sort of like attorney general becomes attorneys general (here general is a postpositive adjective) Quoting: These kinds of compound nouns have what are called “postpositive” adjectives. The adjectives follow the nouns, as opposed to being in front, as they usually are. They include “account receivable,” “heir apparent,” and “professor emeritus.” https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/plural_problems.php https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/plural_problems.php
wayoutthere 6y ago
I think there was a time where folks inside Apple felt that the iPad was the future of computing, destined to overtake the laptop and eventually go beyond it. These new Macs are tacit admission that the iPad isn’t the only future of computing and that a lot of folks do have a need for something like a laptop. Keyboards and touch pads (good ones) are simply better input devices for a lot of applications. Having a stiffer hinge that allows you to comfortably place the machine on your lap is a core feature. And being able to load apps from places other than the App Store isn’t optional for a lot of creative types who end up writing custom code for some part of their workflow. There’s still a place for a more simplified walled garden approach (my mother loves her iPad as a primary computing device and it works great for her use cases), but I do think the iPad Pro will get phased out eventually in favor of a more streamlined iPad lineup.
jsinai 6y ago
> However, if you're planning to attach a keyboard to your iPad most of the time, just get a MacBook Air instead. On the flip side, if you're getting an iPad Pro, you should really be planning to buy the Pencil with it to take advantage of its strengths. Agreed, the big thing about the iPad Pro is the pencil and note taking/markup/doodling abilities. However even so chances are that someone has the keyboard attached most of the time and is still a heavy user of the pencil on iPad. Meaning that the iPad is the right form factor. Extrapolating further, even if the Air supported pencil, the form factor would mean that using pencil on the upright screen would always be compromised. Then the added appeal of the iPad + Magic Keyboard is that it’s the perfect form factor for note taking/annotations/doodling /drawing and it has this powerful processor and keyboard when you need it to. So to me, even if the Air and iPad Pro start to have overlapping features, the form factor difference alone gives them enough differentiation, both being useful.
addicted 6y ago
What apple really needs to create and I believe has been positioning themselves to do so for a few years, is a surface like device that runs OSX in docked mode and iOS in undocked mode.
- r00fus 6y ago
  What good would that do for Apple? They’d rather you buy two separate devices. The same with the “mid tower” Mac fever dreams from a decade ago - Apple have proven their intent and the market hasn’t punished their approach (in fact rewarded it). Any wishes to the contrary are just that.
nojito 6y ago
Yup. It's well known what Apple's hardware strategy is. They want each and every device do as much as it can, before moving up the chain. The watch does everything you need it to do before you move to an iPhone. The iPhone does what you need it to do before moving to a iPad. For most people the iPad does everything they need so there's no reason to move to a Macbook.
forrestthewoods 6y ago
> you're planning to attach a keyboard to your iPad most of the time, just get a MacBook Air instead. Bullshit. I shouldn’t have to buy two functionally equivalent pieces of hardware just to use two different operating systems. At this point the hardware is the same damn thing. Disable touch input on macOS if you really want. But having to purchase and carry two pieces of virtually identical >$1000 hardware is absurd.
- r00fus 6y ago
  That’s an incredibly entitled viewpoint. The separation between OS and hardware is arbitrary - one where due to a historical trend but Apple isn’t obliged to provide that to you. Purchase accordingly.
  - forrestthewoods 6y ago
    Obviously. They’re free to sell what they want and I’m free to buy or not buy what I want. And complain about it on meaningless Internet forums. But the fact remains that the difference in hardware is now negligible. A MacBook Air and iPad+Brydge are basically the same hardware in basically the same form factor. Except the iPad has more capabilities. Is it entitled to not want to buy and travel with two different expensive things when one thing can obviously perform all tasks? You’re free to think that if you want. I’m not likely to change your mind. Apple is stubborn. They will eventually cave. It’s just a matter of time. They should have flipped the switch 5 years ago. They’ll probably wait another 5 before making the correct decision.
    - r00fus 6y ago
      I'd say it's entitled. Any travel at this point is purely entitled. Feel free to complain about Apple. Are there other vendors doing better with a similar level of stability in their platform?
kiddico 6y ago
AvE has something to say about your opinion of drill usage ;P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJOSVStpZ2Y&feature=youtu.be&t=381 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJOSVStpZ2Y&feature=youtu.be...
hinkley 6y ago
> generally suggest that people are bad at realizing when a product wasn't designed for them. Ever has it been for Apple products. Either people are stupid for wanting the product, or the complainer wants the same product with three features removed, for half the price. I don’t ever hear people talk about cars this way. I struggle to think of another product category that gets this level of consistent shade. Meanwhile my retirement is going to be quite a bit more comfortable from being an AAPL shareholder since OS X. (I had serious bad experiences and resultant beef with 68k era Macs, and swore I’d never touch another one until they had a “real” operating system, which OS X was).
zapzupnz 6y ago
I don't believe the author was suggesting that the iPad become a Mac. Steve Jobs drew an analogy to cars and trucks. iPads are like cars; smooth easy rides. Macs are like trucks; much more versatile but a bit trickier to use. Nobody wants iPads to become trucks. They just want to ride Lexuses, not Corollas.

melling 6y ago

No, this one of those “There are two kinds of people in the world” “Those that have imagination and those that don’t“ I am really disappointed that Google or Microsoft haven’t don’t a better job with tablets. Apple needs more competition. The laptop of the future is a better iPad. Remember when Apple told us we didn’t need bigger iPhones? If it didn’t fit in one hand, you were essentially doing it wrong.

deergomoo 6y ago

Normally I would agree with this, but I think in this case Apple would have to do so little to make this a suitable enough device to the software development crowd, and without affecting how the device works for everyone else, that I wish they'd just do it. All they'd need to do is allow sideloading. Even if they left all the other sometimes-problematic security aspects in place (like enforced sandboxing), it would be enough. People would find a way to do what they need to. I don't need it to be a full replacement for my Mac, but it sucks that I can't use this amazing, capable device to a bit of work on my sofa or on the train. Of course, they'll never do it, because money. Even if 99% of apps stayed on the App Store, the highest earning 1% would be sure to leave.

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
But why would anyone want to develop on an iPad - on a sofa or anywhere? You will need a keyboard anyway, and by the time you've added that you may as well just get a MacBook Air and use the device emulation in Xcode instead of trying to run natively. Sideloading will never happen - not because of money, but because it makes no sense to destroy the security model for 95% of users just because 5% of users want to run as root, or some nearly-but-not-quite approximation.
- deergomoo 6y ago
  > But why would anyone want to develop on an iPad - on a sofa or anywhere? You will need a keyboard anyway, and by the time you've added that you may as well just get a MacBook Air and use the device emulation in Xcode instead of trying to run natively Because then I wouldn't need to own a laptop. I prefer work on a desktop most of the time, and I already own an iPad Pro. It seems silly that I need to own a third device for what basically amounts to company policy. And the advantage the iPad has is that the keyboard is detachable. When I'm just browsing the internet or watching Netflix I can remove it and hold the device in my hands—something I can't do with a laptop. > Sideloading will never happen - not because of money, but because it makes no sense to destroy the security model for 95% of users just because 5% of users want to run as root, or some nearly-but-not-quite approximation. There's no reason it couldn't be buried in settings and approved on a per-developer basis. This is how it already works for enterprise apps: you install the app via a browser, but then you have to go to Settings to confirm you trust the distribution certificate used. The only change required would be to allow any developer cert rather than just those belonging to the enterprise programme. This is essentially exactly how notarised apps work on the Mac.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    I tried this with a Surface, because I thought exactly the same thing - I can watch movies in bed without a keyboard, and add the keyboard to code, and the pen thing will be awesome, and so on. My experience was that the imprefections in the experience were enough of a distraction so that I never got really deep into flow. I could do quick bug-fix sessions, sure, and write emails, and jot down ideas. But it absolutely did not replace a laptop. I eventually gave it to my girlfriend who loved it because she could do all those things, and then she got a tech job and had to get a proper laptop for all the same reasons.

shuckles 6y ago

I agree mostly with your theory of iPad, but I believe it is Apple Product Marketing’s job to lay that out very clearly, if not explicitly, but they have not in my opinion. The messaging about “Pro” iPads makes the platform aspire to replace your Mac, but in practice I see iPad as a field computer for environments where a Mac is simply inappropriate.

m463 6y ago
> it is Apple Product Marketing’s job Actually, Marketing's job is not that. The job of marketing is to tell half the story, and that is the favorable half. If marketing is selling a pickup truck, it should tell you that it can carry stuff in the bed, more than before and it will be easy for you to carry it. They won't say people rarely carry stuff in the bed, that you should really rent a truck when moving a refrigerator or moving your house, and that a sedan is more practical. They should not open their mouth, unless it is to say you are really a pickup truck person and your dreams are tied up in this pickup.
- lisperforlife 6y ago
  This. The most underrated comment. :-)
- ghaff 6y ago
  And Apple clearly pitches the iPad towards creative types, not just consumers, but mostly draw rather than code or otherwise type. (And they don't emphasize that you probably can't begin to draw like all the artists effortlessly doing so in their ads :-))
  - egypturnash 6y ago
    My experience as a pro artist is that it takes about five years of directed practice to go from “I like to draw” to “I draw well enough to make a living at it”, followed by another 5-10y to get to “I just sort of move my hand and Art happens without much thought because I have internalized a ton of stuff that I used to have to do on paper”. YMMV.

prox 6y ago

I still feel a lot of people haven’t read the book About Face, on interaction design. The OP would have been unnecessary. Different form factors have what they call different postures. It’s a lot less sovereign than a full desktop or laptop. It’s a lot more an auxiliary device, or leisure device. The Ipads sit alongside the spectrum, the pro is more sovereign, the budget ipad is more auxiliary.

cm2187 6y ago

I am actually genuinely curious of what is the use case for doing coding or advanced video editing on an ipad rather than a laptop. Like why do you need that level of mobility? To edit a movie on the toilet seat of a plane? I get the hacker toying mentality of "it would be cool if I could run Doom on my washing machine's LCD". But is there really a market for it?

donkeyd 6y ago
For me, I love the video editing part. Allows me to easily edit videos on trips to share with family and friends. Works much better than on a phone and requires a lot less hardware than a laptop.
matwood 6y ago
> But is there really a market for it? I think there was until the m1 air. My iPad pro is powerful and very portable. The only thing holding it back from being my complete on the go machine was lack of software around coding. Now that the m1 air has come out, I will likely stop using the keyboard with my iPad, and just use the air on the go. The iPad will go back to my drawing and photo sorting/editing device.
- cm2187 6y ago
  There are still great use cases for an ipad. My two favorites are browsing the web or reading books from a bathtub and watching movies when travelling!
  - gumby 6y ago
    Do you use it in a zip-loc bag like bezos does with his kindle? I’ve wondered if that works.
    - cm2187 6y ago
      No, the ipad doesn’t mind a few droplets of water. But you need a “book cover” like ipad case [1], that you can hold with one hand by sticking the finger between the ipad and the cover part of the case, so you hold it firmly with very little effort. [1] https://www.amazon.co.uk/JETech-Apple-10-2-Inch-Model-Generation-Black/dp/B07QPV9Z7X/ref=sr_1_5 https://www.amazon.co.uk/JETech-Apple-10-2-Inch-Model-Genera...

bhickey 6y ago

> It's a bit like complaining that a drill should have a flat back so you can also use it as a hammer. Sure, it might be technically possible, but not only will it never be as good as just using a hammer for the job, it would make the drilling functionality worse. You might want to rethink your example! https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Anchors/ROCPEC https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Anchors/ROCPEC

pilsetnieks 6y ago
A very good example actually. As a developer (in the construction sense) you wouldn't use a mountain climbing hand drill to build a house. You would have specialized electric drills, and standalone hammer (or several) since charging and weight isn't really an issue there. That hand drill is exactly the equivalent of shoehorning any IDE onto an iPad, as in, doing the best within severe constraints.

neya 6y ago

Here's another perspective - The ipad in my developer eyes is a powerful computer. It can do much more than just people use it mostly for - reading books and gaming. In fact, I'm using an iPad air right now and feel held back by the limitations of iOS imposed on me as a developer. I can't write code on an iPad (reliably). The machine itself is capable, so is the OS, but the narrow use cases Apple wants to portray it for gets in my way. In fact, I was so frustrated, I was even looking at some alternatives. The only thing that gets closest to what I want is a Surface Go - a full fledged windows computer that can literally do everything I want (SSH, Coding, etc) I would switch instantly in a heart beat. But, the longer term consequences of an ecosystem switch pull me back. I'm invested in the Apple ecosystem heavily at this point and would much rather have something from Apple that also covers developers' use cases. I'm sure even Apple employees doing programming would like to see something like that. But, Apple needs to listen to make it happen. And they don't. Hence, such posts. At least, that's what I can infer. P.S - I'm far from an Apple "fanboy". I'm a developer first and use whatever helps me achieve my end goal.

ghaff 6y ago
I actually get the desire for convergence between the tablet and laptop. After all, the hardware is basically capable of both roles, potentially ergonomics aside (I haven't encountered a removeable keyboard that really works like a laptop does which I often use on my lap). At the same time, it may be worth observing that tablets took off when Apple basically threw out laptop compatibility and made tablets their own (well, phone-related) thing. So convergence would be interesting but I don't want them to de-optimize either the tablet or the laptop to do so. (Though I expect they'll get there at some point and have no doubt they're experimenting internally.)
- thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
  >> I actually get the desire for convergence between the tablet and laptop. After all, the hardware is basically capable of both roles, potentially ergonomics aside. This is why there are "two-in-one" laptops that have fully functional touchscreens that convert to tablet mode for both Windows and Chromebook operating systems. >> Apple basically threw out laptop compatibility and made tablets their own (well, phone-related) thing. Thus this article begging Apple to reconsider. Wouldn't it be awesome if the M1 Macbook Air had a fully functional tablet mode that let it act as an iPad Pro? :) For whatever reason Apple does not think so. :(

appleflaxen 6y ago

Ahh, yes; the old hacker credo: "it wasn't designed for me, so I'll leave it."

igravious 6y ago

nit pick! > (iPad Air or iPad no-adjective) iPad Air (and iPad Pro) are so-called open form compound nouns of the noun+noun variety – nary an adjective in sight. See https://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/nouns/compound-noun.html https://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/nouns/com... and https://www.ef.com/wwen/english-resources/english-grammar/compound-nouns/ https://www.ef.com/wwen/english-resources/english-grammar/co... for reference. English rarely uses postnomial adjectives, the exception being archaic, Latinate, or poetic language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpositive_adjective https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpositive_adjective

anamexis 6y ago
From your first link: "A compound noun is formed when two words are combined to make a completely new word. This means that the meaning of the new word must be significantly different than either of its parts individually." iPad Air and iPad Pro are not significantly different than iPad individually. "Air" and "Pro" are modifying "iPad." Also, I couldn't find anywhere Apple refers to these iPads in the plural, but they definitely call them "AirPods Pro," which points to postnominal adjective.
- igravious 6y ago
  Hmm. The product is Airpods – Apple Airpods, not Apple Airpod. When you buy them you get a pair of Airpods, the same way you get a pair of shoes. I bet you people say "Airpods Pros" … and they do! https://www.google.com/search?q=%22airpods+pros%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22airpods+pros%22 (By your logic, they shouldn't – by your logic the plural of Airpods Pro is juest Airpods Pro. I guess iPad Air means iPad (Air variety) and iPad Pro means iPad (Professional variety). So it does seem that Air and Pro qualify or modify what an iPad is. Sort of like attorney general becomes attorneys general (here general is a postpositive adjective) Quoting: These kinds of compound nouns have what are called “postpositive” adjectives. The adjectives follow the nouns, as opposed to being in front, as they usually are. They include “account receivable,” “heir apparent,” and “professor emeritus.” https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/plural_problems.php https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/plural_problems.php

wayoutthere 6y ago

I think there was a time where folks inside Apple felt that the iPad was the future of computing, destined to overtake the laptop and eventually go beyond it. These new Macs are tacit admission that the iPad isn’t the only future of computing and that a lot of folks do have a need for something like a laptop. Keyboards and touch pads (good ones) are simply better input devices for a lot of applications. Having a stiffer hinge that allows you to comfortably place the machine on your lap is a core feature. And being able to load apps from places other than the App Store isn’t optional for a lot of creative types who end up writing custom code for some part of their workflow. There’s still a place for a more simplified walled garden approach (my mother loves her iPad as a primary computing device and it works great for her use cases), but I do think the iPad Pro will get phased out eventually in favor of a more streamlined iPad lineup.

jsinai 6y ago

> However, if you're planning to attach a keyboard to your iPad most of the time, just get a MacBook Air instead. On the flip side, if you're getting an iPad Pro, you should really be planning to buy the Pencil with it to take advantage of its strengths. Agreed, the big thing about the iPad Pro is the pencil and note taking/markup/doodling abilities. However even so chances are that someone has the keyboard attached most of the time and is still a heavy user of the pencil on iPad. Meaning that the iPad is the right form factor. Extrapolating further, even if the Air supported pencil, the form factor would mean that using pencil on the upright screen would always be compromised. Then the added appeal of the iPad + Magic Keyboard is that it’s the perfect form factor for note taking/annotations/doodling /drawing and it has this powerful processor and keyboard when you need it to. So to me, even if the Air and iPad Pro start to have overlapping features, the form factor difference alone gives them enough differentiation, both being useful.

addicted 6y ago

What apple really needs to create and I believe has been positioning themselves to do so for a few years, is a surface like device that runs OSX in docked mode and iOS in undocked mode.

r00fus 6y ago
What good would that do for Apple? They’d rather you buy two separate devices. The same with the “mid tower” Mac fever dreams from a decade ago - Apple have proven their intent and the market hasn’t punished their approach (in fact rewarded it). Any wishes to the contrary are just that.

nojito 6y ago

Yup. It's well known what Apple's hardware strategy is. They want each and every device do as much as it can, before moving up the chain. The watch does everything you need it to do before you move to an iPhone. The iPhone does what you need it to do before moving to a iPad. For most people the iPad does everything they need so there's no reason to move to a Macbook.

forrestthewoods 6y ago

> you're planning to attach a keyboard to your iPad most of the time, just get a MacBook Air instead. Bullshit. I shouldn’t have to buy two functionally equivalent pieces of hardware just to use two different operating systems. At this point the hardware is the same damn thing. Disable touch input on macOS if you really want. But having to purchase and carry two pieces of virtually identical >$1000 hardware is absurd.

r00fus 6y ago
That’s an incredibly entitled viewpoint. The separation between OS and hardware is arbitrary - one where due to a historical trend but Apple isn’t obliged to provide that to you. Purchase accordingly.
- forrestthewoods 6y ago
  Obviously. They’re free to sell what they want and I’m free to buy or not buy what I want. And complain about it on meaningless Internet forums. But the fact remains that the difference in hardware is now negligible. A MacBook Air and iPad+Brydge are basically the same hardware in basically the same form factor. Except the iPad has more capabilities. Is it entitled to not want to buy and travel with two different expensive things when one thing can obviously perform all tasks? You’re free to think that if you want. I’m not likely to change your mind. Apple is stubborn. They will eventually cave. It’s just a matter of time. They should have flipped the switch 5 years ago. They’ll probably wait another 5 before making the correct decision.
  - r00fus 6y ago
    I'd say it's entitled. Any travel at this point is purely entitled. Feel free to complain about Apple. Are there other vendors doing better with a similar level of stability in their platform?

kiddico 6y ago

AvE has something to say about your opinion of drill usage ;P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJOSVStpZ2Y&feature=youtu.be&t=381 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJOSVStpZ2Y&feature=youtu.be...

hinkley 6y ago

> generally suggest that people are bad at realizing when a product wasn't designed for them. Ever has it been for Apple products. Either people are stupid for wanting the product, or the complainer wants the same product with three features removed, for half the price. I don’t ever hear people talk about cars this way. I struggle to think of another product category that gets this level of consistent shade. Meanwhile my retirement is going to be quite a bit more comfortable from being an AAPL shareholder since OS X. (I had serious bad experiences and resultant beef with 68k era Macs, and swore I’d never touch another one until they had a “real” operating system, which OS X was).

zapzupnz 6y ago

I don't believe the author was suggesting that the iPad become a Mac. Steve Jobs drew an analogy to cars and trucks. iPads are like cars; smooth easy rides. Macs are like trucks; much more versatile but a bit trickier to use. Nobody wants iPads to become trucks. They just want to ride Lexuses, not Corollas.