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When I see beautiful old buildings neglected like this, it's heartbreaking to me. The only reason nobody lives there and makes a storied life of it that enriche

When I see beautiful old buildings neglected like this, it's heartbreaking to me. The only reason nobody lives there and makes a storied life of it that enriches the life of the city is because of some quirk of bureaucracy. The converse is when someone does inhabit something like this, it's criticized as a "sweetheart deal" with the implication if not the outright accusation of corruption. In Toronto, we have an island downtown with homes on 100y leases that cannot be re-sold at market rates, but also cannot be willed to heirs, and that has a pretty transparent waiting list system, which still gets periodic criticism as corrupt. These library apartments could be revitalized to operate on a similar scheme, even though there would be huge risk of them going to the politically connected and patronage. Political classes tend not to understand that it is these exceptions that produce the stories that provide the character that makes cities desirable, and not their rules. I lived in a historical apartment building for several years, and it has occupied a psychogeographical landmark in the culture of the city for generations, appearing in various novels and with a cast of storied occupants. They were too large and expensive and a bit out of the way for fashionable rentals, so the people there always had a reason to be oddly both transient and yet still maintaining the refinement they were used to. Society divorcees and scandalized people in transition, politicians from remote ridings, elderly widows, downwardly mobile sons of establishment families, mistresses, professional artists and musicians who needed to be in the city but could never raise enough for a down payment - these characters and archetypes form the mythology of cities, and buildings like those library apartments and other historical buildings contribute to it. The promise of hidden beauty and riches and the ability to find it is the essence of the appeal of a city. I hope they find a way to open them up again.

userbinator 6y ago
I hope they find a way to open them up again. Moreover, I hope they get preserved and restored, not "modernized", because they are definitely an interesting piece of history.
- untog 6y ago
  That's difficult. Living standards are much higher than they used to be. Should they be restored as actual usable apartments? If so you're going to think about the heating, cooling, the insulation etc. etc. etc. Should they be restored as historical exhibit? OK, sure. But then the space isn't really being used. IMO these are interesting but they're not such an important part of history that they must be preserved exactly the way they are today.
  - therealx 6y ago
    Although I'd love for them to become affordable, solid quality, art focused apartments - I think I'd be just as happy with them as well rennovated meeting rooms or work-from-home spaces.
rtkwe 6y ago
Part of the reason they're not occupied though is they were setup for library caretakers and have full after hours access to the library so it's kind of sketchy to just rent them out on the open market because without a lot of work the tenant would have to have the keys and security codes for the library.
- altrunox 6y ago
  IDK, considering the insane rent prices in NYC I would think that they could do something like a small division so that the person could access the apartment without direct access to the rest of the library. It could help to support the libraries, I guess some people would even pay an "extra" because it's in there.
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    The 'small division' would have to cut the stairs off from the rest of the library because the apartment in this building is on the third floor. It doesn't really work with the entrance, main desk and stair location where you could easily seal off the apartment from the rest of the building. https://bit.ly/3fyZDJ5 https://bit.ly/3fyZDJ5
  - saalweachter 6y ago
    I would definitely pay extra to have access to the library as a tenant in the library-apartment. I mean, granted, it's just a generic neighborhood library, so it wouldn't have specialized texts, but still. Leave the cameras on, lock the librarian's office and password-protect the computers after hours, and require the tenants to return [or check out] any borrowed material by the next morning. Realistically, you'll probably have one or two bad tenants over the next few decades who leave their trash inside the library or try to steal the crappy old library computers and it will mostly be fine.
    - iguy 6y ago
      If they accepted slightly below market rent, they could have the pick of NYU's writing instructors, or sabbatical visitors, or whatever. That is, don't rent them on the open market, but hook up with one of the many institutes with a long list of underpaid people well-vetted for reverence of books.
mr_overalls 6y ago
> Society divorcees and scandalized people in transition, politicians from remote ridings, elderly widows, downwardly mobile sons of establishment families, mistresses, professional artists and musicians who needed to be in the city but could never raise enough for a down payment - these characters and archetypes form the mythology of cities. . . I found this description very evocative, to the point that I was starting to imagine a story set in a building of these characters. I was very pleased to click on your profile and see that you're a writer, and are not letting that talent go to waste!
- bsanr2 6y ago
  My 9-year-old self just whispered, "The Westing Game," into my ear.
an_opabinia 6y ago
> it's criticized as a "sweetheart deal" Sure, maybe they can assign these properties to "eligible" people at random. Someday you'll be on the losing end of a lottery limited to "eligible" people. The draft to Vietnam. Getting Parkinsons. Being born across the street, from the better zipcode. Just because in some abstract mathematical sense they're fair, doesn't mean lotteries are equitable or just in the way people care about. Besides, the idea that it's wasted or neglected, it's crap. The government has basically unlimited resources. How much money did we borrow, how many checks did we cut in the last 7 months, and what were the implications really? It is never about making the most of a scarce resource, there is never really scarcity. And maybe it's not justice either. Nobody has a right to charge a person rent who would have gotten a free, beautiful government apartment instead. However, because that landlord wants Birkin bags, and the government will simply never, under any circumstances, give out free Birkin bags on purpose, the landlord is going to be rationally, legitimately mad about free apartments. That's the antagonist, not the government. And the reason we have a less interesting world than the humanistic one you propose is, landlords care more about fucking Birkin bags than say, art and writing.
- Ancapistani 6y ago
  I totally get your point and don’t mean to detract from it in any way - but my wife would definitely argue that Birkin bags qualify as “art” :)
- pembrook 6y ago
  Birkin bags and other impractical luxury goods are simply a signaling device. Humans care about what other humans think. This is often good, as the negative formal and informal sanctions of peers is what keeps the human animals from murdering each other. Birkin bags and luxury goods are a mostly harmless byproduct of this human desire for approval. In writing this comment, you are signaling to your HN peers how Nobel and virtuous you are, in that you only care about things like art and writing—-hoping for internet points in return (just as we all are). The problem is, the government does not have unlimited resources, and most of us lack the intrinsic motivation to do anything useful for others. If given everything for free, we’d like to think we’d spend our time creating great art and inventions—-but really we’d probably spend 99% of our time on Netflix and social signaling.
Scoundreller 6y ago
> In Toronto, we have an island downtown with homes on 100y leases that cannot be re-sold at market rates, but also cannot be willed to heirs, and that has a pretty transparent waiting list system, which still gets periodic criticism as corrupt. Except that your “lease” can continue to your spouse or children: > Those rules, laid out in a provincial statute that’s been in place for the past 25 years, state that specific houses on the island can only be transferred to a spouse or child. https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/man-fighting-toronto-islands-act-in-order-to-stay-in-late-brothers-home https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/man-fighting-toronto-...
liminal 6y ago
I understand the desire for unique spaces, but this is a library that really should use all available space in ways that better the library and help the whole community.
WalterBright 6y ago
How scarce resources are allocated: free markets - whoever is willing to pay the most socialism - whoever has political connections, corruption, whoever is willing to wait the longest in line
- eru 6y ago
  Well, in a free market you are free to sell your stuff to people with political connections as well or have long lines, if you prefer that. Selling to whoever is willing to pay the most is just one possibility. For social reasons, many people even prefer queues to flexible prices.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    > is just one possibility It's far and away the predominant one. > queues You can buy your way to the front of the line.
    - eru 6y ago
      Yes, rationing by price is quite prevalent. No, you can't always by your way to the front line. Try that in a super market that's running out of toilet paper, and you'll be lynched by your fellow shoppers. People also queue for new Apple or Nintendo devices. Those companies don't hold auctions for new releases. And yes, you can often find new Apple devices resold for higher prices at release in gray or even black markets. But the companies discourage those. And 'scalpers' for eg medical equipment even faced felony charges in the pandemic. And, of course, many socialist countries have flourishing black markets as well.
  - nickpp 6y ago
    Nobody who actually experienced queues prefers them. Reminds me of an old joke from before the fall of communism: A person feeling tired leans on a wall to catch his breath. Somebody notices him and stands beside. A few hours later a queue has formed. New people arriving ask "what is this for?". The original person replies "I have no idea, but I can’t leave now - don't you see I am the first in line?!"

userbinator 6y ago

I hope they find a way to open them up again. Moreover, I hope they get preserved and restored, not "modernized", because they are definitely an interesting piece of history.

untog 6y ago
That's difficult. Living standards are much higher than they used to be. Should they be restored as actual usable apartments? If so you're going to think about the heating, cooling, the insulation etc. etc. etc. Should they be restored as historical exhibit? OK, sure. But then the space isn't really being used. IMO these are interesting but they're not such an important part of history that they must be preserved exactly the way they are today.
- therealx 6y ago
  Although I'd love for them to become affordable, solid quality, art focused apartments - I think I'd be just as happy with them as well rennovated meeting rooms or work-from-home spaces.

rtkwe 6y ago

Part of the reason they're not occupied though is they were setup for library caretakers and have full after hours access to the library so it's kind of sketchy to just rent them out on the open market because without a lot of work the tenant would have to have the keys and security codes for the library.

altrunox 6y ago
IDK, considering the insane rent prices in NYC I would think that they could do something like a small division so that the person could access the apartment without direct access to the rest of the library. It could help to support the libraries, I guess some people would even pay an "extra" because it's in there.
- rtkwe 6y ago
  The 'small division' would have to cut the stairs off from the rest of the library because the apartment in this building is on the third floor. It doesn't really work with the entrance, main desk and stair location where you could easily seal off the apartment from the rest of the building. https://bit.ly/3fyZDJ5 https://bit.ly/3fyZDJ5
- saalweachter 6y ago
  I would definitely pay extra to have access to the library as a tenant in the library-apartment. I mean, granted, it's just a generic neighborhood library, so it wouldn't have specialized texts, but still. Leave the cameras on, lock the librarian's office and password-protect the computers after hours, and require the tenants to return [or check out] any borrowed material by the next morning. Realistically, you'll probably have one or two bad tenants over the next few decades who leave their trash inside the library or try to steal the crappy old library computers and it will mostly be fine.
  - iguy 6y ago
    If they accepted slightly below market rent, they could have the pick of NYU's writing instructors, or sabbatical visitors, or whatever. That is, don't rent them on the open market, but hook up with one of the many institutes with a long list of underpaid people well-vetted for reverence of books.

mr_overalls 6y ago

> Society divorcees and scandalized people in transition, politicians from remote ridings, elderly widows, downwardly mobile sons of establishment families, mistresses, professional artists and musicians who needed to be in the city but could never raise enough for a down payment - these characters and archetypes form the mythology of cities. . . I found this description very evocative, to the point that I was starting to imagine a story set in a building of these characters. I was very pleased to click on your profile and see that you're a writer, and are not letting that talent go to waste!

bsanr2 6y ago
My 9-year-old self just whispered, "The Westing Game," into my ear.

an_opabinia 6y ago

> it's criticized as a "sweetheart deal" Sure, maybe they can assign these properties to "eligible" people at random. Someday you'll be on the losing end of a lottery limited to "eligible" people. The draft to Vietnam. Getting Parkinsons. Being born across the street, from the better zipcode. Just because in some abstract mathematical sense they're fair, doesn't mean lotteries are equitable or just in the way people care about. Besides, the idea that it's wasted or neglected, it's crap. The government has basically unlimited resources. How much money did we borrow, how many checks did we cut in the last 7 months, and what were the implications really? It is never about making the most of a scarce resource, there is never really scarcity. And maybe it's not justice either. Nobody has a right to charge a person rent who would have gotten a free, beautiful government apartment instead. However, because that landlord wants Birkin bags, and the government will simply never, under any circumstances, give out free Birkin bags on purpose, the landlord is going to be rationally, legitimately mad about free apartments. That's the antagonist, not the government. And the reason we have a less interesting world than the humanistic one you propose is, landlords care more about fucking Birkin bags than say, art and writing.

Ancapistani 6y ago
I totally get your point and don’t mean to detract from it in any way - but my wife would definitely argue that Birkin bags qualify as “art” :)
pembrook 6y ago
Birkin bags and other impractical luxury goods are simply a signaling device. Humans care about what other humans think. This is often good, as the negative formal and informal sanctions of peers is what keeps the human animals from murdering each other. Birkin bags and luxury goods are a mostly harmless byproduct of this human desire for approval. In writing this comment, you are signaling to your HN peers how Nobel and virtuous you are, in that you only care about things like art and writing—-hoping for internet points in return (just as we all are). The problem is, the government does not have unlimited resources, and most of us lack the intrinsic motivation to do anything useful for others. If given everything for free, we’d like to think we’d spend our time creating great art and inventions—-but really we’d probably spend 99% of our time on Netflix and social signaling.

Scoundreller 6y ago

> In Toronto, we have an island downtown with homes on 100y leases that cannot be re-sold at market rates, but also cannot be willed to heirs, and that has a pretty transparent waiting list system, which still gets periodic criticism as corrupt. Except that your “lease” can continue to your spouse or children: > Those rules, laid out in a provincial statute that’s been in place for the past 25 years, state that specific houses on the island can only be transferred to a spouse or child. https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/man-fighting-toronto-islands-act-in-order-to-stay-in-late-brothers-home https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/man-fighting-toronto-...

liminal 6y ago

I understand the desire for unique spaces, but this is a library that really should use all available space in ways that better the library and help the whole community.

WalterBright 6y ago

How scarce resources are allocated: free markets - whoever is willing to pay the most socialism - whoever has political connections, corruption, whoever is willing to wait the longest in line

eru 6y ago
Well, in a free market you are free to sell your stuff to people with political connections as well or have long lines, if you prefer that. Selling to whoever is willing to pay the most is just one possibility. For social reasons, many people even prefer queues to flexible prices.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > is just one possibility It's far and away the predominant one. > queues You can buy your way to the front of the line.
  - eru 6y ago
    Yes, rationing by price is quite prevalent. No, you can't always by your way to the front line. Try that in a super market that's running out of toilet paper, and you'll be lynched by your fellow shoppers. People also queue for new Apple or Nintendo devices. Those companies don't hold auctions for new releases. And yes, you can often find new Apple devices resold for higher prices at release in gray or even black markets. But the companies discourage those. And 'scalpers' for eg medical equipment even faced felony charges in the pandemic. And, of course, many socialist countries have flourishing black markets as well.
- nickpp 6y ago
  Nobody who actually experienced queues prefers them. Reminds me of an old joke from before the fall of communism: A person feeling tired leans on a wall to catch his breath. Somebody notices him and stands beside. A few hours later a queue has formed. New people arriving ask "what is this for?". The original person replies "I have no idea, but I can’t leave now - don't you see I am the first in line?!"