5 ms·

Mask Mandates Work to Slow Spread of Coronavirus, Kansas Study Finds

23 points by kevinconaway 6y ago

api 6y ago
Why is this controversial? There is a clear and obvious mechanism here. The anti-mask arguments I've seen amount to the argument that masks don't work perfectly. Of course they don't. They reduce transmission, and that's the point. It's a numbers game where the goal is to keep the virus's R factor under 1.0.
- just-juan-post 6y ago
  https://i.redd.it/vfij6vxnobu51.png https://i.redd.it/vfij6vxnobu51.png Feel free to create an updated version if you want.
  - api 6y ago
    This is like "the house is still on fire, so obviously dousing it with water isn't helping..." What would it be without the mandate?
    - underseacables 6y ago
      I think that would depend on the motive of the person doesn’t the analysis. Clearly science is having a fit at the moment between those who want a mandate and those who don’t. It’s getting really hard to trust the motives of these groups.
      - jariel 6y ago
        "science is having a fit " No, it's not. We know masks help, there might be some debate as to 'how much' but the material cost is basically zero, so we encourage them. " It’s getting really hard to trust the motives of these groups." No, it's not. Seriously, what do you think their motives are? "World Domination By Mask Mandate! Once we have them wearing our masks, we will control the world! Wait ..." The major concern boils down to the degree to which people will actually follow the mandate.
    - 0-_-0 6y ago
      I guess the argument is that the mandate should have change the trend.
      - rtkwe 6y ago
        That depends heavily on how well it's being followed and how many other safeguards like closing or capacity limiting indoor dining/gatherings are put in place and enforced/followed.
      - jariel 6y ago
        "I guess the argument is that the mandate should have change the trend." Mask are only one component of various measures and artefacts beyond our control, like the weather.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    Your chart ends in September - two months ago. Here's what it looks like now: https://imgur.com/a/T3QjGbx https://imgur.com/a/T3QjGbx You've demonstrated that mitigation efforts take time to impact case counts, which makes a lot of sense given things like incubation periods.
ncr100 6y ago
Social influencing is more important. Who is "popular" in Kansas? I'm not a native Kansasian...who could spread the word that they are using a mask for the duration of THIS pandemic. (there will be another!) The phrase, "Studies show ..." seems to me to be a more significant human invention, to motivate immediate behavior, than the actual technical studies themselves. Just slap "Studies show" on the front of any believable collection of words which could be reasonably determined to be "common sense", and watch the behaviors trend.
- blitblitblit 6y ago
  Unfortunately "investigative journalists" like Sharyl Attkisson are respected and of influence to the right's audience. She is posting and continues to post anti-mask studies as "proof" that masks do not work. This type of thing justifies more and more anti-mask activity because she is someone who is "unbiased" and getting the "facts". Only half the facts don't equate to the whole picture, and Chinese cloth masks you can read through are far different than dual cloth masks or respirators. TL;DR: Not enough independent media is reporting all the facts. Simply having reputable people link to and explain the mask particulate logarithmic analysis would go a long way: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083
underseacables 6y ago
But is it the mask, or the people staying home who have made a choice to go out less because of the mask?
sj660 6y ago
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Facebook told me these were ineffective!!! Not the hekcin facediaperinos.
tzs 6y ago
Isn't the following simple experiment enough to show that wearing a mask should help? 1. Without a mask, I coughed while probing the space around my face with one of my hands, at a distance of maybe 9-12 inches away. I could easily feel significant airflow from the cough in a cone in front of mouth. Nothing to the sides (for purposes of this discussion, "side" means significantly off-axis from from the line down the middle of the cone, so includes above and below the face, not just left and right). 2. Same test, with mask. I either did not detect any airflow or just detected a bare hint of some at the same test distance as unmasked. (I'd need an assistant to tell which, since I can't think of a good way to do a blind test alone). There was definitely some airflow out the sides with the mask, as I could see by the coughs fogging my glasses, but it only seemed to be very close to my head. 3. I Repeated the above, but replacing "cough" with "blow as hard as I can". Same results. How does one escape concluding from this that if I'm infectious wearing a mask will reduce the volume over which my releases of air containing virus laden droplets spread? Or that this means my chances of passing it on to someone I'm only spending a little time with (clerks helping with a purchase, people standing in the same line for something, etc) will be reduced?
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Yep. For a more dramatic test of what you're describing, you can add fire. It's a pretty clear difference with the mask versus unmasked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6cTDGqcUpA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6cTDGqcUpA
- Gys 6y ago
  Seems to me that if you have the urge to cough, you better stay away from others anyway. So wearing a mask in that case makes no difference: nobody should be near you ;-)
- emerged 6y ago
  To play devils advocate, masks could be ineffective if people tend to behave in more dangerous ways while comforted by wearing a mask. For example, by spending more time around people, frequently touching public objects, standing much closer to people, etc.

23 points by kevinconaway 6y ago

api 6y ago

Why is this controversial? There is a clear and obvious mechanism here. The anti-mask arguments I've seen amount to the argument that masks don't work perfectly. Of course they don't. They reduce transmission, and that's the point. It's a numbers game where the goal is to keep the virus's R factor under 1.0.

just-juan-post 6y ago
https://i.redd.it/vfij6vxnobu51.png https://i.redd.it/vfij6vxnobu51.png Feel free to create an updated version if you want.
- api 6y ago
  This is like "the house is still on fire, so obviously dousing it with water isn't helping..." What would it be without the mandate?
  - underseacables 6y ago
    I think that would depend on the motive of the person doesn’t the analysis. Clearly science is having a fit at the moment between those who want a mandate and those who don’t. It’s getting really hard to trust the motives of these groups.
    - jariel 6y ago
      "science is having a fit " No, it's not. We know masks help, there might be some debate as to 'how much' but the material cost is basically zero, so we encourage them. " It’s getting really hard to trust the motives of these groups." No, it's not. Seriously, what do you think their motives are? "World Domination By Mask Mandate! Once we have them wearing our masks, we will control the world! Wait ..." The major concern boils down to the degree to which people will actually follow the mandate.
  - 0-_-0 6y ago
    I guess the argument is that the mandate should have change the trend.
    - rtkwe 6y ago
      That depends heavily on how well it's being followed and how many other safeguards like closing or capacity limiting indoor dining/gatherings are put in place and enforced/followed.
    - jariel 6y ago
      "I guess the argument is that the mandate should have change the trend." Mask are only one component of various measures and artefacts beyond our control, like the weather.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Your chart ends in September - two months ago. Here's what it looks like now: https://imgur.com/a/T3QjGbx https://imgur.com/a/T3QjGbx You've demonstrated that mitigation efforts take time to impact case counts, which makes a lot of sense given things like incubation periods.

ncr100 6y ago

Social influencing is more important. Who is "popular" in Kansas? I'm not a native Kansasian...who could spread the word that they are using a mask for the duration of THIS pandemic. (there will be another!) The phrase, "Studies show ..." seems to me to be a more significant human invention, to motivate immediate behavior, than the actual technical studies themselves. Just slap "Studies show" on the front of any believable collection of words which could be reasonably determined to be "common sense", and watch the behaviors trend.

blitblitblit 6y ago
Unfortunately "investigative journalists" like Sharyl Attkisson are respected and of influence to the right's audience. She is posting and continues to post anti-mask studies as "proof" that masks do not work. This type of thing justifies more and more anti-mask activity because she is someone who is "unbiased" and getting the "facts". Only half the facts don't equate to the whole picture, and Chinese cloth masks you can read through are far different than dual cloth masks or respirators. TL;DR: Not enough independent media is reporting all the facts. Simply having reputable people link to and explain the mask particulate logarithmic analysis would go a long way: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

underseacables 6y ago

But is it the mask, or the people staying home who have made a choice to go out less because of the mask?

sj660 6y ago

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Facebook told me these were ineffective!!! Not the hekcin facediaperinos.

tzs 6y ago

Isn't the following simple experiment enough to show that wearing a mask should help? 1. Without a mask, I coughed while probing the space around my face with one of my hands, at a distance of maybe 9-12 inches away. I could easily feel significant airflow from the cough in a cone in front of mouth. Nothing to the sides (for purposes of this discussion, "side" means significantly off-axis from from the line down the middle of the cone, so includes above and below the face, not just left and right). 2. Same test, with mask. I either did not detect any airflow or just detected a bare hint of some at the same test distance as unmasked. (I'd need an assistant to tell which, since I can't think of a good way to do a blind test alone). There was definitely some airflow out the sides with the mask, as I could see by the coughs fogging my glasses, but it only seemed to be very close to my head. 3. I Repeated the above, but replacing "cough" with "blow as hard as I can". Same results. How does one escape concluding from this that if I'm infectious wearing a mask will reduce the volume over which my releases of air containing virus laden droplets spread? Or that this means my chances of passing it on to someone I'm only spending a little time with (clerks helping with a purchase, people standing in the same line for something, etc) will be reduced?

ceejayoz 6y ago
Yep. For a more dramatic test of what you're describing, you can add fire. It's a pretty clear difference with the mask versus unmasked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6cTDGqcUpA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6cTDGqcUpA
Gys 6y ago
Seems to me that if you have the urge to cough, you better stay away from others anyway. So wearing a mask in that case makes no difference: nobody should be near you ;-)
emerged 6y ago
To play devils advocate, masks could be ineffective if people tend to behave in more dangerous ways while comforted by wearing a mask. For example, by spending more time around people, frequently touching public objects, standing much closer to people, etc.