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I'm not sure what changed with COVID, but something has been much worse in the last 9 months. I've always used a personal system similar to what I understand "G

I'm not sure what changed with COVID, but something has been much worse in the last 9 months. I've always used a personal system similar to what I understand "GTD" to be based on the article but everything about it has broken down. Instead of focusing on a task until it's completed, I'm constantly being yanked back and forth by whoever is yelling at the moment. My personal theory is the ~60% of useless middle managers have nothing left to do without an office. They now split their days into asking for constant status updates on every conceivable detail, and "breaking down walls" which is pestering whoever is holding up a project by a couple hours because they are focused elsewhere. I've disabled my IM client which made them shift to phone calls, and the next step is turning off call forwarding.

Aperocky 6y ago
Don't know which industry you're in but it feels like my managers work burden has increased, and not because they pestered me more - as an IC my work are more or less unaffected, as even in office my development environment is cloud based anyways.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- darkerside 6y ago
  I'd agree. As a manager, conversations that used to be side of desk are now 30 minute meetings. The entire day is wall to wall Zoom calls. I try not to pester my team but it's a fine line between that and failing to keep communication lines open in a remote environment.
  - aantix 6y ago
    Async audio messages seems like it would cut down on the meetings? Something like Yac? https://www.yac.com/ https://www.yac.com/ * Not a customer, investor, or the janitor. Just looks like a good solution to a wall of meetings.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I think there’s something different about real time conversation (whether typed or spoken) for certain problems, especially ones that just need to be solved ASAP with a good enough solution. Too much overhead or something with asynchronous communications, or having to “spin” up your thoughts regarding the issue every time feels taxing. As opposed to a quick back and forth chit chat that addresses any concerns that come to mind and then closing that task out.
    - llarsson 6y ago
      All the "crap, I got the answering machine instead" anxiety multiplied by also having video to worry about. That it is intentional does not really help, because you still have to deal with the inherent awkwardness of not knowing if your tone and message come across correctly in a one-way conversation without feedback.
      - FeepingCreature 6y ago
        Wonder if you could set up a chat system that only starts PMs on the hour. So if a conversation has no interaction for more than two minutes, it "dies" and you need to wait until the next full hour to restart it.
    - Fumtumi 6y ago
      I hate it when i get a voice message from my family through whatsapp. Reading stuff is so much quicker. One college asks me if i have time to do a short video chat for the update i need; The coordination take sprobably a higher effort then just writing it down.
      - aantix 6y ago
        The product provides searchable transcriptions.
        Fumtumi 6y ago
        The core feature/idea/thought on this product is still a voice message. Otherwise you can just use whatever you have used already anyway. Having something like this as main feature, means thats the default. In my opinion therefore not a good tool.
  - ImprovedSilence 6y ago
    I know the whole world is obsessed with zoom calls currently, and sometimes its a good thing to see peoples faces in meetings. But I've found that just talking over the phone to be much less taxing than zoom. The fatigue is real! To the point where me and a few co-workers can just be conferenced in over the phone, and sometimes not talking for minutes at a time while working, but then collaborate at a seconds notice as if we were sharing an office again. (not that i'm advocating doing this for hours on end) Also, I don't know if this is in my head or just speaker or mic quality, or on phone/network noise cancellation, or what, but I've found landline calls to be much more clear and easy to converse than zoom or cell phone calls. I think that may be where some of the fatigue comes from.
    - dvtrn 6y ago
      Talking on the phone at least means I can make a sandwich as we’re talking about what to talk about in the zoom meeting to have a briefing about the 2021 roadmap planning meeting. Harder to do that over zoom because of an org policy that include the words “camera on”
      - dtech 6y ago
        I have the exact opposite experience. I can't have a phone call while doing something else since I don't have a hands-free set. With a wireless headset connected to my computer I have much more freedom, and at least I can continue some low-key work during meetings which aren't all that interesting or have a lull
        Angostura 6y ago
        > I don't have a hands-free set > ... With a wireless headset connected to my computer ?
        ryukafalz 6y ago
        Probably a wireless USB headset that wouldn't work on their phone?
  - psmithsfhn 6y ago
    I am about to look for a new job and i'm hoping there are some companies out there that don't video zoom -- i feel like the video part is bad info, wasteful, stressful, etc.
  - amit_bhalla 6y ago
    So true.
- zimmern 6y ago
  what is an IC? it means integrated circuit to me.
  - jackcosgrove 6y ago
    Individual contributor
- mindhash 6y ago
  I agree. As IC, I proactively keep the parties updated. So they don't disturb me while I am in the middle of something. Over communicating at times of my preference has been helpful
therockspush 6y ago
I concur. The amount of useless emails has gone through the roof, with a lot of the content being managers reminding people they are still there. Everyone cc's everyone now. If someone wrote an email to the ALL distribution group back in the day and there were more than 2 replies to that email, someone would immediately lose their shit and tell everyone to stop replying-all. Now those reply-all email chains happen weekly, with junior VPs laying hot takes all over the place.
- dbmikus 6y ago
  A counter to this is Stripe's practice of ensuring that almost all emails end up on a mailing list so they aren't siloed just to the participants. I can find and search for relevant conversations that I wasn't first party to. The key then is to make sure your inbox only contains items directly to you or from specific mailing lists.
- drivers99 6y ago
  This probably sounds crazy but I barely even read email anymore. Everything real is handled in chat and group calls now, so I don’t have time to organize/clean that stuff up anyway. I’m changing jobs this week and leaving behind about 13,000 unread. Work has gone from asynchronous to synchronous.
  - lcall 6y ago
    I was talking with a friend about this problem, and for what it may be worth I wrote a bunch of thoughts on what I do to manage email (simple site): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854565565.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854565565.html
- Angostura 6y ago
  This has been one of the main benefits of Teams for me, and I have pushed hard to get large group e-mails moved to Teams. You only have to @mention the people who really have to see. All the other's who would have previously have been cc:ed can simply review the messages if they are interested at their leisure, withou being pinged.
momokoko 6y ago
> I'm constantly being yanked back and forth by whoever is yelling at the moment. > I've disabled my IM client which made them shift to phone calls, and the next step is turning off call forwarding. Imagine being this socially awkward where you just can’t say “I’m busy.” or actually enjoying interacting with and helping others.
ryndbfsrw 6y ago
Your solution is similar to mine, but I've gone a step further and put in times in my calendar when I'm available for questions/updates/requests etc. It doubles up as the admin-part of my day where I update my GTD-style inbox of tasks that may have come up and then allocate times in my calendar when I'll deal with various tasks in future. There is a larger problem you're touching on that in most knowledge-workcompanies there is little to no attention paid to the production line process of how that work is 'produced' with the inevitable miasma of low-value busywork ('quick question, where are we with X','thoughts on X??' etc)
Rmblnm4n 6y ago
Some theories suggest only 10%ish of the information we use to communicate is speech, the remaining 90% is body cues. Makes sense from an evolutionary perspective; speech came along later. With so many people acclimated to putting on themselves, and translating, office friendly body mechanics, working at home may indeed cause subtle anxiety from loss of habit. At the web app layer, software is a simpler world to design and ship at any scale versus a decade ago. All the logistical nonsense needed to manage office life could very well be bullshit from a GTD standpoint. Satisfying last generations memes on corporate structure versus more atomized social networking abilities.
kamaal 6y ago
>>My personal theory is the ~60% of useless middle managers have nothing left to do without an office. Most of these people where literally ruling by authority and not having physical presence is a huge problem for these people. It also kind of sends across the message that things can run well without them. We really are in a place where an operating system takes more resources to run than the programs it runs.
Fumtumi 6y ago
Its the responsibility of you to communicate your state so people can act on it. you might not be very good in transporting to people who need to know, what you are doing and how it is going? And don't get me wrong but when your solution is to disable/block communication ways instead of communication with others on how you want/need to communicate, then the issue is on both sides.
bane 6y ago
Just wait until they can't provide a status report to the people who decide budgets for your department, decide that since not much is happening there there's no reason to have the department, defund it, and you lose your job.
learnstats2 6y ago
I've noticed that people whose jobs I would describe as "appear busy" have really upped their game around arranging unnecessary Zoom meetings (where nothing comparable was necessary before) - to appear busy while remote.
lovegoblin 6y ago
> I'm not sure what changed with COVID, but something has been much worse in the last 9 months. The addition of the constant, unrelenting background stress of a global goddamn pandemic?

Aperocky 6y ago

Don't know which industry you're in but it feels like my managers work burden has increased, and not because they pestered me more - as an IC my work are more or less unaffected, as even in office my development environment is cloud based anyways.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
darkerside 6y ago
I'd agree. As a manager, conversations that used to be side of desk are now 30 minute meetings. The entire day is wall to wall Zoom calls. I try not to pester my team but it's a fine line between that and failing to keep communication lines open in a remote environment.
- aantix 6y ago
  Async audio messages seems like it would cut down on the meetings? Something like Yac? https://www.yac.com/ https://www.yac.com/ * Not a customer, investor, or the janitor. Just looks like a good solution to a wall of meetings.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I think there’s something different about real time conversation (whether typed or spoken) for certain problems, especially ones that just need to be solved ASAP with a good enough solution. Too much overhead or something with asynchronous communications, or having to “spin” up your thoughts regarding the issue every time feels taxing. As opposed to a quick back and forth chit chat that addresses any concerns that come to mind and then closing that task out.
  - llarsson 6y ago
    All the "crap, I got the answering machine instead" anxiety multiplied by also having video to worry about. That it is intentional does not really help, because you still have to deal with the inherent awkwardness of not knowing if your tone and message come across correctly in a one-way conversation without feedback.
    - FeepingCreature 6y ago
      Wonder if you could set up a chat system that only starts PMs on the hour. So if a conversation has no interaction for more than two minutes, it "dies" and you need to wait until the next full hour to restart it.
  - Fumtumi 6y ago
    I hate it when i get a voice message from my family through whatsapp. Reading stuff is so much quicker. One college asks me if i have time to do a short video chat for the update i need; The coordination take sprobably a higher effort then just writing it down.
    - aantix 6y ago
      The product provides searchable transcriptions.
      - Fumtumi 6y ago
        The core feature/idea/thought on this product is still a voice message. Otherwise you can just use whatever you have used already anyway. Having something like this as main feature, means thats the default. In my opinion therefore not a good tool.
- ImprovedSilence 6y ago
  I know the whole world is obsessed with zoom calls currently, and sometimes its a good thing to see peoples faces in meetings. But I've found that just talking over the phone to be much less taxing than zoom. The fatigue is real! To the point where me and a few co-workers can just be conferenced in over the phone, and sometimes not talking for minutes at a time while working, but then collaborate at a seconds notice as if we were sharing an office again. (not that i'm advocating doing this for hours on end) Also, I don't know if this is in my head or just speaker or mic quality, or on phone/network noise cancellation, or what, but I've found landline calls to be much more clear and easy to converse than zoom or cell phone calls. I think that may be where some of the fatigue comes from.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    Talking on the phone at least means I can make a sandwich as we’re talking about what to talk about in the zoom meeting to have a briefing about the 2021 roadmap planning meeting. Harder to do that over zoom because of an org policy that include the words “camera on”
    - dtech 6y ago
      I have the exact opposite experience. I can't have a phone call while doing something else since I don't have a hands-free set. With a wireless headset connected to my computer I have much more freedom, and at least I can continue some low-key work during meetings which aren't all that interesting or have a lull
      - Angostura 6y ago
        > I don't have a hands-free set > ... With a wireless headset connected to my computer ?
        ryukafalz 6y ago
        Probably a wireless USB headset that wouldn't work on their phone?
- psmithsfhn 6y ago
  I am about to look for a new job and i'm hoping there are some companies out there that don't video zoom -- i feel like the video part is bad info, wasteful, stressful, etc.
- amit_bhalla 6y ago
  So true.
zimmern 6y ago
what is an IC? it means integrated circuit to me.
- jackcosgrove 6y ago
  Individual contributor
mindhash 6y ago
I agree. As IC, I proactively keep the parties updated. So they don't disturb me while I am in the middle of something. Over communicating at times of my preference has been helpful

therockspush 6y ago

I concur. The amount of useless emails has gone through the roof, with a lot of the content being managers reminding people they are still there. Everyone cc's everyone now. If someone wrote an email to the ALL distribution group back in the day and there were more than 2 replies to that email, someone would immediately lose their shit and tell everyone to stop replying-all. Now those reply-all email chains happen weekly, with junior VPs laying hot takes all over the place.

dbmikus 6y ago
A counter to this is Stripe's practice of ensuring that almost all emails end up on a mailing list so they aren't siloed just to the participants. I can find and search for relevant conversations that I wasn't first party to. The key then is to make sure your inbox only contains items directly to you or from specific mailing lists.
drivers99 6y ago
This probably sounds crazy but I barely even read email anymore. Everything real is handled in chat and group calls now, so I don’t have time to organize/clean that stuff up anyway. I’m changing jobs this week and leaving behind about 13,000 unread. Work has gone from asynchronous to synchronous.
- lcall 6y ago
  I was talking with a friend about this problem, and for what it may be worth I wrote a bunch of thoughts on what I do to manage email (simple site): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854565565.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854565565.html
Angostura 6y ago
This has been one of the main benefits of Teams for me, and I have pushed hard to get large group e-mails moved to Teams. You only have to @mention the people who really have to see. All the other's who would have previously have been cc:ed can simply review the messages if they are interested at their leisure, withou being pinged.

momokoko 6y ago

> I'm constantly being yanked back and forth by whoever is yelling at the moment. > I've disabled my IM client which made them shift to phone calls, and the next step is turning off call forwarding. Imagine being this socially awkward where you just can’t say “I’m busy.” or actually enjoying interacting with and helping others.

ryndbfsrw 6y ago

Your solution is similar to mine, but I've gone a step further and put in times in my calendar when I'm available for questions/updates/requests etc. It doubles up as the admin-part of my day where I update my GTD-style inbox of tasks that may have come up and then allocate times in my calendar when I'll deal with various tasks in future. There is a larger problem you're touching on that in most knowledge-workcompanies there is little to no attention paid to the production line process of how that work is 'produced' with the inevitable miasma of low-value busywork ('quick question, where are we with X','thoughts on X??' etc)

Rmblnm4n 6y ago

Some theories suggest only 10%ish of the information we use to communicate is speech, the remaining 90% is body cues. Makes sense from an evolutionary perspective; speech came along later. With so many people acclimated to putting on themselves, and translating, office friendly body mechanics, working at home may indeed cause subtle anxiety from loss of habit. At the web app layer, software is a simpler world to design and ship at any scale versus a decade ago. All the logistical nonsense needed to manage office life could very well be bullshit from a GTD standpoint. Satisfying last generations memes on corporate structure versus more atomized social networking abilities.

kamaal 6y ago

>>My personal theory is the ~60% of useless middle managers have nothing left to do without an office. Most of these people where literally ruling by authority and not having physical presence is a huge problem for these people. It also kind of sends across the message that things can run well without them. We really are in a place where an operating system takes more resources to run than the programs it runs.

Fumtumi 6y ago

Its the responsibility of you to communicate your state so people can act on it. you might not be very good in transporting to people who need to know, what you are doing and how it is going? And don't get me wrong but when your solution is to disable/block communication ways instead of communication with others on how you want/need to communicate, then the issue is on both sides.

bane 6y ago

Just wait until they can't provide a status report to the people who decide budgets for your department, decide that since not much is happening there there's no reason to have the department, defund it, and you lose your job.

learnstats2 6y ago

I've noticed that people whose jobs I would describe as "appear busy" have really upped their game around arranging unnecessary Zoom meetings (where nothing comparable was necessary before) - to appear busy while remote.

lovegoblin 6y ago

> I'm not sure what changed with COVID, but something has been much worse in the last 9 months. The addition of the constant, unrelenting background stress of a global goddamn pandemic?