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> Apple said in response that it “does not access or use the IDFA on a user’s device for any purpose”. What is it there for then? If Apple doesn't access the
by skummetmaelk 6y ago
> Apple said in response that it “does not access or use the IDFA on a user’s device for any purpose”.
What is it there for then?
If Apple doesn't access the IDFA, but provide the mechanism to do so for others, then clearly Apple is still violating the law.
Apple put the IDFA there. Others accessing it is similar to one website giving you a cookie without consent and other websites looking at that cookie. It's still a violation by the website that gave you the cookie without obtaining your consent.
- arethuza 6y agoIs there any information on how the IDFA value is accessible?
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y agoMaybe this will help? https://developer.apple.com/app-store/user-privacy-and-data-use/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/user-privacy-and-data-... There’s a fair bit of documentation about IDFAs (disclaimer: I have never used them, so my experience is limited). Do a search for “IDFA”.
- dash2 6y agoThis seems to be a useful starting point: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/adsupport https://developer.apple.com/documentation/adsupport
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y agoGood show! That's probably better.
- arethuza 6y agoI was actually curious if it is accessible from Web apps - as far as I can tell the answer is no. [NB Mainly because I do a lot browsing from my Apple devices - not because I want to use it!]
- Maarten88 6y agoThere are third party Ad-Tech companies that will sell IDFA - cookie combinations they have gathered from their "partners". Think it through: you read this very article, and many cookies on that page you will have consented to will let many ad-tech companies know that you should probably be labeled "privacy conscious". Which, as any good AI will teach them, is closely related to the "extremist left" and "anti fascist" labels. Next, you start Youtube or Insta on your Apple device. Now you suddenly see promoted content from those bubbles because you probably want to click on it. Ad-tech is dangerous.
- donkeyd 6y ago> but provide the mechanism to do so for others, then clearly Apple is still violating the law. Apple is severely limiting IDFA in the new iOS and shows a popup asking whether you want to allow apps to track you. So that's become opt-in. https://mobiledevmemo.com/mobile-advertising-without-the-idfa-a-comprehensive-overview/ https://mobiledevmemo.com/mobile-advertising-without-the-idf...
- Nextgrid 6y agoAs far as I know they delayed this change.
- donkeyd 6y agoLooked it up, that is correct. Under pressure from Facebook.
- zepto 6y agoPressure from Facebook where the threat is an antitrust campaign against Apple for abusing their position. I’d argue that a ruling from the EU aids Apple in moving in a direction they already want to go. What I’m sure Apple is opposed to is the implication that they are somehow violating GDPR themselves.
- SiempreViernes 6y agoIt's good that they change it, but changing something like that makes it hard to seriously argue that everything is fine now.
- donkeyd 6y agoI never argued that it's fine. I merely responded to the other person to provide some context.
- user-the-name 6y agoApple clearly agrees that things could be better, which is why they are changing it for the better. However, they can also, without contradiction, argue that they were not acting ILLEGALLY before.
- qwertox 6y ago> If Apple doesn't access the IDFA, but provide the mechanism to do so for others, then clearly Apple is still violating the law. I'd disagree with that. It's like blaming the browser for storing the cookie which Facebook uses to track users across websites. If Apple would use the IDFA in their own products, then it would be a different story.
- Nextgrid 6y agoThe difference is that browser cookies are necessary for sessions and persisting state - Facebook exploiting this for nefarious purposes isn't the browser's fault. IDFA's only purpose is tracking. I can't see any legitimate use for it. In this case Apple intentionally created a feature (which most people aren't even aware of) that only has malicious use-cases.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pmontra 6y agoThey are convenient. Before cookies we used a session id in the URL and storage on the server.
- user-the-name 6y agoThe IDFA is intentionally limited to prevent many malicious use cases. For instance, each vendor will see a different IDFA for the same device, so you can not collect IDFAs to track users across applications. It is for tracking, but not all tracking is malicious. It is used for things like attributing an ad impression to an app install, to measure how effective an ad campaign is at getting people to install an app. This information doesn't really tell you anything about individual users, but is still useful when aggregated.
- realusername 6y agoWhy not just scrap the IDFA and let the app save themselves a random uuid in their sqlite database then? Am I missing something?
- smarx007 6y agoI think what Apple is saying is that it's not the browser's job to ask consent for storing a cookie or for doing browser fingerprinting but a website's. As much as I dislike IDFA, I think I must agree with their line of reasoning. Edit: Let me bring an analogy (GDPR applies to physical world too). Most cars have a visible VIN number like a phone has an IMEI (if you replace IDFA with IMEI mentally, which would be much worse if that was exposed to the apps). If you take a photo of the VIN and then track the car using this identifier in some way, you are [potentially] violating GDPR, not the car manufacturer.
- _the_inflator 6y agoTotally agree. This is why you don't shut down postal service, just because they could be (mis-)used to deliver drugs or parcel bombs.
- intricatedetail 6y agoBut you should close it if they made it easy for that purpose.
- smarx007 6y agoI think NOYB can make a good case for nuking apps that fail to ask for consent completely off the App Store if requested by any protection agency.
- appleflaxen 6y agohow much easier could it possibly be to use it for that purpose?
- tempodox 6y agoThe IDFA replaces the former use of a device ID that is unchangeable, but you can generate a new IDFA any time in Settings.
- chinathrow 6y ago> but you can generate a new IDFA any time in Settings What like 0.00001% of users would do. That option is useless in practice.
- user-the-name 6y agoApple is changing it to be opt-in starting 2021. You will be asked any time an app wants to access it.
- winded_italics 6y agoAFAICT this is no longer possible in iOS 14.
- ogre_codes 6y ago> What is it there for then? Prior to IDFA, advertisers used other unique on-device information (I believe they had access to the IMEA which was not changeable). With IDFA, users have the option of opting out or at one point resetting the IDFA on the device. IDFA was fundamentally put in to give uses more control. It wasn't really enough, but it was an improvement over what was before it. Now Apple is improving it again by making it opt-in instead of opt-out.