5 ms·

The rebuttal to your reasoning is in the letter. Basically a federal judge has previously ruled that utilizing a publicly available password is not circumventio

by mox1 6y ago

The rebuttal to your reasoning is in the letter. Basically a federal judge has previously ruled that utilizing a publicly available password is not circumvention of a copyright protection mechanism. The code containing the "sig" (as google calls it) or "rolling cipher" (as RIAA calls it) is available to anyone by viewing the JavaScript. This sig / cipher being public means it is not a copyright protection mechanism.

toyg 6y ago
> This sig / cipher being public means it is not a copyright protection mechanism. I can see this as ending up with Youtube being forced to require sign-ins. Massive expense for Google. Then Youtube-dl adds one parameter for the password, and we're back to square one.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  You already have to sign in to view some videos, don’t you? Does YT-dL not have a way to handle those right now?
  - OJFord 6y ago
    Do you? I've never tried to watch any that have required it. Maybe there's Red-only content that isn't advertised/recommended to non-subscribers?
    - monokh 6y ago
      Content with a certain age threshold triggers login. The last time I looked at this, embedding these videos was still possible without logging in. So there are definitely ways in accessing the content without authentication.
      - OJFord 6y ago
        Hm. If embedding works maybe my ad-blocking is sufficient; or I just haven't come across any that require it. I mostly just watch woodworkers/machinists/electronics/etc. Sort of conceivable it could be age restricted but would also be surprising.
    - fuzxi 6y ago
      There's also members-only content on some channels that requires a paid subscription to access.
  - nonbirithm 6y ago
    It does, but it's broken. https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/issues/23860 https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/issues/23860 The developers are not responding to the issue, and from what I understand it is borderline impossible to fix, because there is an entire security team behind the Google login protection. The only workaround is to login with a browser and copy the cookies from it to youtube-dl.
    - xigency 6y ago
      > The only workaround is to login with a browser and copy the cookies from it to youtube-dl. That's really easy to do with postman.
      - jimbob45 6y ago
        >postman It just works. Every time. It’s gotta be one of the most unappreciated tools out there right now.
      - justinclift 6y ago
        "Postman" seems like a pretty generic name. Looking quickly online, maybe you're meaning this one? https://www.postman.com https://www.postman.com
        drdeca 6y ago
        I'm pretty sure that is what they mean, yes. It is a nice tool. Lets you write HTTP(S) templates with parameters and whatnot, save them in groups, send them, handle the response, etc.
        pyuser583 6y ago
        Funny. I initially read that as “The Postman” - kind of like “The Batman.” And your response is regarding whether it should be referred to in the definite article.
    - imtringued 6y ago
      Why not simply create a youtube-login command that does nothing but launch an electron instance that lets you login into youtube and then returns the cookie? youtube-dl could then call that command to obtain the cookie.
- thewakalix 6y ago
  Youtube wasn't behind the DMCA takedown, though. Do they even care about youtube-dl?
  - Analemma_ 6y ago
    Google quickly kills any iOS/Android app that offers offline playback functionality for YouTube, so I can't imagine they love youtube-dl. They probably only haven't made a stink because it might attract more attention to a tool primarily only known about in techhead circles.
    - slimginz 6y ago
      I think the difference is that offline playback and background playback on iOS/Android can be unlocked through YouTube Premium so those apps directly interfere with YouTube's bottom line. YouTube-dl I don't really see as directly competing with that because it's not trivial to download a YouTube video from it to your phone.
      - devit 6y ago
        You can use Firefox mobile and the "Video Background Play Fix" addon to disable the browser APIs that allow the background play blocking antifeature. Alternatively, the NewPipe app available on F-Droid can be used to both play videos in the background and download them.
    - arvindamirtaa 6y ago
      And given how unlikely people are in the wider non-technical audience to god-forbid, run a command line program, I guess they really just don't care. They do take easily accessible apps that use youtube-dl under the hood pretty seriously. I guess it depends on how much of an effort it is for them vs how much of their bottom line ytdl is cutting into.
  - DannyB2 6y ago
    > Do they [YouTube/Google] even care about youtube-dl? A downloaded video doesn't generate ad revenue.
- pilif 6y ago
  Or they just start to use Wildvine protection for their videos
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- m-p-3 6y ago
  It's already there, you can authenticate using a cookie file if you want.
- belorn 6y ago
  I am not that afraid that google would require sign-ins for everything. Even google with its massive market dominance should be pretty scared of given such a clear opening for a competitor, and being accessible without a login is a huge feature in order to get market share quickly compared to a competitor that does not.
  - arvindamirtaa 6y ago
    Not to mention, all that ad revenue. People will literally just give up and straight up do something else if content is behind a auth-wall.
- minusf 6y ago
  i am already getting a "please log in" nag screen almost every time i open a video link (i block all cookies from youtube).
jjeaff 6y ago
What is considered publicly available? I suppose right clicking and selecting view source is ok, but reverse engineering a code out of a hardware chip isn't? Because any kind of DRM basically has a key in the possession of the user. There are just different levels of difficulty to read that key.
sjy 6y ago
The detail of the “publicly available password” case [1] is quite interesting. It’s not directly analogous to the YouTube system, but as the EFF points out, the RIAA’s reliance on German law has its own problems. > When Petrolink learned that one of its largest customers, EOG Resources, might switch over to Digidrill’s visualization service, Petrolink took action. Instead of paying Digidrill for access to the corrected drilling data via LiveLog, Petrolink obtained a laptop running DataLogger – along with the corresponding USB security dongle – and then, after realizing DataLogger used an open source Firebird database, managed to gain access to the database by using Firebird's default administrator username and password. Armed with this access, Petrolink developed a program named “RIG WITSML” (dubbed “the scraper” or “the hack”) that could be installed on an MWD company’s computer running DataLogger in order to – in real time – query corrected drilling data from the DataLogger database and transfer that information to PetroVault for visualization. Petrolink then began installing this RIG WITSML program on MWD computers running DataLogger at more than 300 well sites. [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4765801/digital-drilling-data-systems-v-petrolink-service/ https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4765801/digital-drilli...

by mox1 6y ago

toyg 6y ago

> This sig / cipher being public means it is not a copyright protection mechanism. I can see this as ending up with Youtube being forced to require sign-ins. Massive expense for Google. Then Youtube-dl adds one parameter for the password, and we're back to square one.

jtbayly 6y ago
You already have to sign in to view some videos, don’t you? Does YT-dL not have a way to handle those right now?
- OJFord 6y ago
  Do you? I've never tried to watch any that have required it. Maybe there's Red-only content that isn't advertised/recommended to non-subscribers?
  - monokh 6y ago
    Content with a certain age threshold triggers login. The last time I looked at this, embedding these videos was still possible without logging in. So there are definitely ways in accessing the content without authentication.
    - OJFord 6y ago
      Hm. If embedding works maybe my ad-blocking is sufficient; or I just haven't come across any that require it. I mostly just watch woodworkers/machinists/electronics/etc. Sort of conceivable it could be age restricted but would also be surprising.
  - fuzxi 6y ago
    There's also members-only content on some channels that requires a paid subscription to access.
- nonbirithm 6y ago
  It does, but it's broken. https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/issues/23860 https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/issues/23860 The developers are not responding to the issue, and from what I understand it is borderline impossible to fix, because there is an entire security team behind the Google login protection. The only workaround is to login with a browser and copy the cookies from it to youtube-dl.
  - xigency 6y ago
    > The only workaround is to login with a browser and copy the cookies from it to youtube-dl. That's really easy to do with postman.
    - jimbob45 6y ago
      >postman It just works. Every time. It’s gotta be one of the most unappreciated tools out there right now.
    - justinclift 6y ago
      "Postman" seems like a pretty generic name. Looking quickly online, maybe you're meaning this one? https://www.postman.com https://www.postman.com
      - drdeca 6y ago
        I'm pretty sure that is what they mean, yes. It is a nice tool. Lets you write HTTP(S) templates with parameters and whatnot, save them in groups, send them, handle the response, etc.
      - pyuser583 6y ago
        Funny. I initially read that as “The Postman” - kind of like “The Batman.” And your response is regarding whether it should be referred to in the definite article.
  - imtringued 6y ago
    Why not simply create a youtube-login command that does nothing but launch an electron instance that lets you login into youtube and then returns the cookie? youtube-dl could then call that command to obtain the cookie.
thewakalix 6y ago
Youtube wasn't behind the DMCA takedown, though. Do they even care about youtube-dl?
- Analemma_ 6y ago
  Google quickly kills any iOS/Android app that offers offline playback functionality for YouTube, so I can't imagine they love youtube-dl. They probably only haven't made a stink because it might attract more attention to a tool primarily only known about in techhead circles.
  - slimginz 6y ago
    I think the difference is that offline playback and background playback on iOS/Android can be unlocked through YouTube Premium so those apps directly interfere with YouTube's bottom line. YouTube-dl I don't really see as directly competing with that because it's not trivial to download a YouTube video from it to your phone.
    - devit 6y ago
      You can use Firefox mobile and the "Video Background Play Fix" addon to disable the browser APIs that allow the background play blocking antifeature. Alternatively, the NewPipe app available on F-Droid can be used to both play videos in the background and download them.
  - arvindamirtaa 6y ago
    And given how unlikely people are in the wider non-technical audience to god-forbid, run a command line program, I guess they really just don't care. They do take easily accessible apps that use youtube-dl under the hood pretty seriously. I guess it depends on how much of an effort it is for them vs how much of their bottom line ytdl is cutting into.
- DannyB2 6y ago
  > Do they [YouTube/Google] even care about youtube-dl? A downloaded video doesn't generate ad revenue.
pilif 6y ago
Or they just start to use Wildvine protection for their videos
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
m-p-3 6y ago
It's already there, you can authenticate using a cookie file if you want.
belorn 6y ago
I am not that afraid that google would require sign-ins for everything. Even google with its massive market dominance should be pretty scared of given such a clear opening for a competitor, and being accessible without a login is a huge feature in order to get market share quickly compared to a competitor that does not.
- arvindamirtaa 6y ago
  Not to mention, all that ad revenue. People will literally just give up and straight up do something else if content is behind a auth-wall.
minusf 6y ago
i am already getting a "please log in" nag screen almost every time i open a video link (i block all cookies from youtube).

jjeaff 6y ago

What is considered publicly available? I suppose right clicking and selecting view source is ok, but reverse engineering a code out of a hardware chip isn't? Because any kind of DRM basically has a key in the possession of the user. There are just different levels of difficulty to read that key.

sjy 6y ago

The detail of the “publicly available password” case [1] is quite interesting. It’s not directly analogous to the YouTube system, but as the EFF points out, the RIAA’s reliance on German law has its own problems. > When Petrolink learned that one of its largest customers, EOG Resources, might switch over to Digidrill’s visualization service, Petrolink took action. Instead of paying Digidrill for access to the corrected drilling data via LiveLog, Petrolink obtained a laptop running DataLogger – along with the corresponding USB security dongle – and then, after realizing DataLogger used an open source Firebird database, managed to gain access to the database by using Firebird's default administrator username and password. Armed with this access, Petrolink developed a program named “RIG WITSML” (dubbed “the scraper” or “the hack”) that could be installed on an MWD company’s computer running DataLogger in order to – in real time – query corrected drilling data from the DataLogger database and transfer that information to PetroVault for visualization. Petrolink then began installing this RIG WITSML program on MWD computers running DataLogger at more than 300 well sites. [1] https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4765801/digital-drilling-data-systems-v-petrolink-service/ https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/4765801/digital-drilli...