6 ms·

Remote work is not for me. I'm struggling pretty hard. I miss people. I miss my sense of being good at the parts of work that involved people. I'm shit at worki

by patcon 6y ago

Remote work is not for me. I'm struggling pretty hard. I miss people. I miss my sense of being good at the parts of work that involved people. I'm shit at working alone. I'm not productive like some are, and all my best assets were how I could support people around me and help them love what they were doing. All I have left of work are the parts that make me feel badly every day. Fuck this pandemic.

kortex 6y ago
Network effects, mate. I'm in the same boat. Zoom/hangout meetings just aren't the same magic as walking down the hallway and knocking on a door/cube. There's still nothing widely used that compares to a whiteboard, either. Drawing tablets haven't caught on yet.
- melvinroest 6y ago
  What about something like Google Jamboard?
  - itake 6y ago
    All of those tools are just awkward to use compared to a whiteboard.
    - ponderingfish 6y ago
      Amen to that.
    - Aeolun 6y ago
      Maybe we can just have a full size whiteboard in front of the webcam? My Japanese teacher did that and it actually worked out much better than I expected.
    - joelbluminator 6y ago
      really disagree here, i find it better, and it's easily saveable so you can look back at it later compared to a real whiteboard.
riffraff 6y ago
I am not trying to be dismissive, I understand missing people, but why can't you support people around you in a remote environment? You can pair with someone, or have informal chats, or plan some online game with your colleagues, have presentations in your team around work or non-work related things, setup a book club. It is harder and not as good as in-person interaction, but maybe you can get some good out of it. EDIT: sorry, I am re-reading this and please be assured my intent is not to say you're "wrong", but just to offer some minor remediation ideas that might be helpful.
- hunterwerlla 6y ago
  I very much disagree with this. I agree with the top level comment, remote work is not for me. I understand that some people work well with remote work, but for some reason people who like remote work seem to not understand that some people prefer working in the office. I don't think that these kind of things replace an in person environment, and I'm really looking forward to when I can go back into the office.
  - argc 6y ago
    I like doing programming at home but talking to people in the office. Trying to connect with someone over zoom is the most worthless exercise
  - riffraff 6y ago
    but I did not disagree with the top level comment nor you, I completely agree that remote work is not for everyone, I only wanted to suggest some things that can help making it more bearable.
- patcon 6y ago
  Hey, thanks, I can feel your good intentions. It's hard to put a pin on why it feels like more than you're seeing. Part of it is that I'm asking for so many of these de novo supports when coworkers are so much more independent. The fixes happen easily, but need comms and planning that mostly only brings marginal benefits to me. I mostly leaned on ambient energy and indirect attention of others -- e.g., my best "need to be productive" days came from sitting in a common area and making sure my screen faced out, so my sense of pleasing others kept me accountable. Other ways are possible, but it's hard to reinvent your whole way of managing yourself, esp when it mostly feels like a solitary effort, I guess? Anyhow, thanks for hearing me out. I know it might not sound like it makes tons of sense. It's a layered failure of all my prior mechanisms for happiness and satisfaction in work
notjes 6y ago
It is not the pandemic, it is the lockdowns.
jmkni 6y ago
It's not for me either. I feel as though there's a lot of peer pressure to say I love working from home, and I'm so much more productive! I hate it, it makes me miserable and I'm much less productive. I'm back in the office 5 days per week again, through choice. Most of the time, I'm there on my own, but get to see others when they show up, and also get to leave work at the office, come home and relax.
opportune 6y ago
Same here. I am extroverted (for a SWE) and bad at staying focused when nobody is around to peek at my screen. Work at a company where everything needs to be signed off, things need to always be clearly communicated, etc. so constantly having to context switch projects while I’m blocked on waiting for someone else to stop ignoring me. The one thing that makes me happy about my current job is fixing support tickets. But nobody in my management chain really cares about it so it’s pretty much just a work-hobby. Ironically that makes it much more enjoyable because nobody else (managers, tls, product managers, etc.) will take credit for my work and I don't have to get signoff on every little thing.
- patcon 6y ago
  > bad at staying focused when nobody is around to peek at my screen omg yes. It's hard to communicate to people this need for coworking and co-presence. I've tried over the years to ask for always-on remote presence tools -- always-on video or audio. Some people seem to think of these as micromanage-y employer-driven tech, but it truly helps me stay motivated and reduces anxiety/depression. Like I don't want anyone's explicit help or project management (though check-ins on one another are nice imho), but just your conscious human presence. I'm incredibly distraction-prone, but working in service of the humans around me is what helps keeps me in check. If you're also energized by support tickets, I'd venture a guess that The Helper is a high type for you too, if you were to do the Enneagram personality test :) https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-2 https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-2
  - opportune 6y ago
    I had to take that test at a previous employer and I think I got either a 3 or 8. I'm definitely a people pleaser, but two of the main reasons I like doing support tickets are that I'm good at it and I feel bad when other engineers really half-ass it and the person on the other end gets no answer after ~weeks of waiting. It's shocking to me how little effort people put into it.

by patcon 6y ago

kortex 6y ago

Network effects, mate. I'm in the same boat. Zoom/hangout meetings just aren't the same magic as walking down the hallway and knocking on a door/cube. There's still nothing widely used that compares to a whiteboard, either. Drawing tablets haven't caught on yet.

melvinroest 6y ago
What about something like Google Jamboard?
- itake 6y ago
  All of those tools are just awkward to use compared to a whiteboard.
  - ponderingfish 6y ago
    Amen to that.
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Maybe we can just have a full size whiteboard in front of the webcam? My Japanese teacher did that and it actually worked out much better than I expected.
  - joelbluminator 6y ago
    really disagree here, i find it better, and it's easily saveable so you can look back at it later compared to a real whiteboard.

riffraff 6y ago

I am not trying to be dismissive, I understand missing people, but why can't you support people around you in a remote environment? You can pair with someone, or have informal chats, or plan some online game with your colleagues, have presentations in your team around work or non-work related things, setup a book club. It is harder and not as good as in-person interaction, but maybe you can get some good out of it. EDIT: sorry, I am re-reading this and please be assured my intent is not to say you're "wrong", but just to offer some minor remediation ideas that might be helpful.

hunterwerlla 6y ago
I very much disagree with this. I agree with the top level comment, remote work is not for me. I understand that some people work well with remote work, but for some reason people who like remote work seem to not understand that some people prefer working in the office. I don't think that these kind of things replace an in person environment, and I'm really looking forward to when I can go back into the office.
- argc 6y ago
  I like doing programming at home but talking to people in the office. Trying to connect with someone over zoom is the most worthless exercise
- riffraff 6y ago
  but I did not disagree with the top level comment nor you, I completely agree that remote work is not for everyone, I only wanted to suggest some things that can help making it more bearable.
patcon 6y ago
Hey, thanks, I can feel your good intentions. It's hard to put a pin on why it feels like more than you're seeing. Part of it is that I'm asking for so many of these de novo supports when coworkers are so much more independent. The fixes happen easily, but need comms and planning that mostly only brings marginal benefits to me. I mostly leaned on ambient energy and indirect attention of others -- e.g., my best "need to be productive" days came from sitting in a common area and making sure my screen faced out, so my sense of pleasing others kept me accountable. Other ways are possible, but it's hard to reinvent your whole way of managing yourself, esp when it mostly feels like a solitary effort, I guess? Anyhow, thanks for hearing me out. I know it might not sound like it makes tons of sense. It's a layered failure of all my prior mechanisms for happiness and satisfaction in work

notjes 6y ago

It is not the pandemic, it is the lockdowns.

jmkni 6y ago

It's not for me either. I feel as though there's a lot of peer pressure to say I love working from home, and I'm so much more productive! I hate it, it makes me miserable and I'm much less productive. I'm back in the office 5 days per week again, through choice. Most of the time, I'm there on my own, but get to see others when they show up, and also get to leave work at the office, come home and relax.

opportune 6y ago

Same here. I am extroverted (for a SWE) and bad at staying focused when nobody is around to peek at my screen. Work at a company where everything needs to be signed off, things need to always be clearly communicated, etc. so constantly having to context switch projects while I’m blocked on waiting for someone else to stop ignoring me. The one thing that makes me happy about my current job is fixing support tickets. But nobody in my management chain really cares about it so it’s pretty much just a work-hobby. Ironically that makes it much more enjoyable because nobody else (managers, tls, product managers, etc.) will take credit for my work and I don't have to get signoff on every little thing.

patcon 6y ago
> bad at staying focused when nobody is around to peek at my screen omg yes. It's hard to communicate to people this need for coworking and co-presence. I've tried over the years to ask for always-on remote presence tools -- always-on video or audio. Some people seem to think of these as micromanage-y employer-driven tech, but it truly helps me stay motivated and reduces anxiety/depression. Like I don't want anyone's explicit help or project management (though check-ins on one another are nice imho), but just your conscious human presence. I'm incredibly distraction-prone, but working in service of the humans around me is what helps keeps me in check. If you're also energized by support tickets, I'd venture a guess that The Helper is a high type for you too, if you were to do the Enneagram personality test :) https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-2 https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-2
- opportune 6y ago
  I had to take that test at a previous employer and I think I got either a 3 or 8. I'm definitely a people pleaser, but two of the main reasons I like doing support tickets are that I'm good at it and I feel bad when other engineers really half-ass it and the person on the other end gets no answer after ~weeks of waiting. It's shocking to me how little effort people put into it.