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Poll: Have you experienced depressive symptoms over the past two weeks?

300 points by miduil 6y ago

Inspiration https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25096877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25096877 Update: List of "symptoms of major depressive disorder" https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20356007 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/sy...

Commodore_64 6y ago
Multiple times.
dannyeei 6y ago
It's probably worth listing what depressive symptoms are above the survey
fblp 6y ago
woah - how do you make polls on HN? and thank you for posting this. Also: this is an Australian initiative that encourages you to ask yourselves and others: Are you OK? https://www.ruok.org.au/how-to-ask https://www.ruok.org.au/how-to-ask
- ancarda 6y ago
  >how do you make polls on HN? https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll
moltar 6y ago
For this poll to be accurate, I think a list of agreed exact symptoms needs to be included. E.g. I have no idea what depressive symptoms are.
- bb88 6y ago
  Feeling of dread, hopelessness, or lack of motivation to do normal tasks. Not just for work, but for things you typically enjoy doing -- so more than just procrastination. This can be caused by anger, despair, loss of a loved one, brain chemical imbalance, alcoholism, drug addiction, etc. Severe symptoms would including thinking about harming yourself or others.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  That's part of the problem. No one else has an idea what depression is ether, even professionals. For example here are two things drastically different and the medical industry considers both to be depression: 1) Being overly pessimistic and skeptical to the point of believing nothing is worth trying and nothing can be done. "Nothing I try will ever help me. My depression will last forever." This can come in the form of rationalizing why nothing will work when they have a problem, so they get suck. (An example of learned helplessness.) 2) Catching a chronic cold that may or may not cause irritable bowel syndrome that has the side effect of inflammation in the stomach which then in turn minimizes or outright removes the ability to feel positive emotions. Some may experience other side effects beyond inflammation, like long term cold symptoms where they want to lay in bed all day, not socialize, or do much. They feel sloth-like in an identical way to one feels when they have a cold, minus the sinus pressure and coughing.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Depressive symptoms run the gamut. Typical diagnostic tools are surveys where each question is scored, and the total score is measured against different thresholds to approximate where on the spectrum of depression you might be: https://screening.mhanational.org/screening-tools/depression https://screening.mhanational.org/screening-tools/depression
yalogin 6y ago
What’s special about the last two weeks? Or is this someone trying out the poll creation feature on HN?
- colordrops 6y ago
  Election? News that covid can cause neurological deficits in 20% of infected + increased rates of infection?
  - prionassembly 6y ago
    Selection bias.
    - ravenstine 6y ago
      That statistic, though I'm still skeptical of it, doesn't really surprise me that much. At least 20% of the people I know are very neurotic, and I could picture them traumatizing themselves over the possibility that they might die from COVID. I know several people who are deathly afraid of the disease, and a few whom are hypochondriacs to begin with and haven't left their homes in the last 8 months. I would bet good money that, if they became infected, they would give themselves permanent mental scars over it.
- penagwin 6y ago
  This is actually a pretty standard question by psychiatrists. It's because the DSM-V criteria for Major Depressive Disorder is "Depressed most of the day, nearly every day..." - and it's one of several other features you have to match within a 2 week period to match it. It's a fancy way of saying "The unusual depressive episode (which can be normal) has lasted at least two weeks (not as normal)". How that exact number was determined I'm not sure (though it was the APA), but that's the standard everyone follows. EDIT: I believe a variation of this question is standard as part of the PHQ-9 which is a screening/benchmark quick self-assessment for depression.
- adventured 6y ago
  The US elections were in the last two weeks, the pandemic continued to get worse in Europe and the US, and Pfizer / BioNTech's vaccine news came out in the last two weeks. Maybe the parent was considering the potentially depressive nature of facing lockdowns again.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
young_unixer 6y ago
I've never felt like life has no joy in it, I'm highly motivated to achieve my goals and I think they're worthwhile goals. The thing is, I think I won't achieve those goals, and that makes me anxious, not medically anxious, but there's this constant felling of dread. So, I wouldn't say I'm depressed, but I have this constant dread that accompanies me everyday.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- roflc0ptic 6y ago
  That's actually medically anxious. One doesn't need panic attacks, or even really dysfunction to have anxiety. A constant feeling of aimless dread is classic anxiety. It also doesn't have to be aimless: when I'm anxious, I realize I mostly post-facto create stories about why I'm feeling anxious. Sometimes there's a bona fide trigger, but other times I'm just inflating problems to justify my feelings. Medication, meditation, therapy and exercise are great tools for improving quality of life. Not feeling constant dread is wonderful. 10/10 would recommend taking steps to alleviate.
  - roflc0ptic 6y ago
    Also: drink less coffee.
    - proverbialbunny 6y ago
      I drink decaf. ^_^ There is decaf out there as good as the best non-decaf coffee (I drink espresso, yum!) and it's a pretty short amount of time before the brain normalizes to decaf and it will wake you up without the negative side effects. But yah, caffeine while anxious can be not a good time.
      - riffraff 6y ago
        additionally: there is also decaffeinated tea (maybe sold as de-theinated or theine-free), which can be pretty good.
vikramkr 6y ago
I dont think the poll should show the options in random order considering they're ordered in terms of frequency, it makes for a confusing setup
- Izkata 6y ago
  It makes sense in general, otherwise there's bias towards the top of the list. It's just this particular poll it doesn't work for.
wolco2 6y ago
I get depressed for 5 / 15 seconds once every few days. How do I respond to this poll?
- unchocked 6y ago
  That’s not depression - you’re experiencing sadness.
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    Only if their 15 seconds of depression are related to negative stimuli.
    - mc_lovin_ 6y ago
      flashbacks
newacct583 6y ago
Anxiety for sure. Not depression.
- bb88 6y ago
  Anxiety is in that list of things that can be termed "depression". [1] Anxiety for something like a test is normal -- since you can take the test away and the anxiety goes away. If it's worse than that it could be depression, including things like panic attacks. [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20356007 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/sy...
tekdude 6y ago
Since there's a link to 'unvote' next to the option that I chose, I can only assume that this poll is not anonymous and that my choice is stored with my username somewhere on HN's server. It could also be cookie-based, but something to keep in mind if you have privacy concerns.
- pranith_h 6y ago
  How would a better implementation of this work? They definitely need to store your username somewhere to prevent the same user from voting multiple times. I imagine they could simply keep track of whether you voted or not, and not which specific choice you made. That way your choice remains private but we would not be able to show even you which choice you made. I’m sure Reddit tracks each upvote and downvote individually and doesn’t just increment a score counter somewhere.
- dang 6y ago
  Votes on HN aren't anonymous in that sense. I don't think that polls should be treated differently than other kinds of upvotes, which already are very intimate data. We take protecting that data and keeping it private very seriously, but of course there's some risk in any such arrangement, so if you don't want any risk, your best bet is not to vote on HN.
tenaciousDaniel 6y ago
I don't felt the need to see a doctor about what I'm experiencing, so I'm not sure if what I have qualifies as depression. But over the past several months, it feels like my entire personality and being is a rug that has been pulled out from underneath me. I'm no longer the driven and interested person that I used to be. I struggle to sit down and work - my brain feels scattered and no matter how much I sleep and rest, I feel so tired that my body literally aches. The only thing I really feel is a subtle sadness, like a background hum that feels like it's dragging me down. It also feels like it's never going to go away. So is that depression? I have no idea, but I hate the feeling and I pray that once this pandemic is over, the symptoms will fade.
- tspike 6y ago
  Yep, that's exactly what depression is like.
- cjbprime 6y ago
  I think it's a good idea to see a doctor/therapist any time something changes in a way that interferes with your ability to be functional in daily life, for more than a brief amount of time. It sounds like that's the case for you.
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  That is exactly what depression feels like. It’s okay if you feel like you can navigate it without help. But if you feel like you would benefit from help but don’t know how/where to start, there are people and resources available to help you get there. Don’t let it get so bad that it’s an emergency before you’re ready to ask.
- throwaway1777 6y ago
  The good news is if you never had it in the past there’s a chance it may go away and not come back. Everyone goes through rough spots and this has been a weird year. Depression is a serious thing though, so don’t feel any shame in asking a professional about it.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
rosywoozlechan 6y ago
I feel a constant sense of inadequacy and that I haven't achieved enough, but it doesn't really get me down or stop me from enjoying things. It's just background noise that sometimes flares up in intensity, like when I feel like I should have known something or I failed at a task. That isn't fun. I work to address this by constant self-improvement and making and achieving reasonably attainable goals. That helps. I guess I also worry about the health of the relationships I have with important people in my life and what I'm doing to maintain them. I don't think any of these things qualify as depression though. It just feels like to me that's what life is.
asguy 6y ago
Wait, more than normal?
hyperdimension 6y ago
I voted, but I'm not really sure if I'm the audience you sought for this poll; I've been severely depressed for the majority of my life (it gets more and less worse from time to time, but always what I'd consider depressed), but the coronavirus situation hasn't (as far as I've noticed) affected it all that much. I wish good luck to all of you out there who might be going through this for the first time in your life, or those for whom it is a regular (yet unwelcome) visitor.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  I think you are absolutely part of the audience for this, if not for meaningful data collection then because your experience can lend insight to people here, in the comments.
- sjg007 6y ago
  I found my depression has actually lifted with respect to the pandemic. It has helped me realize there is only so much in a situation I can control, ergo me, that I can always change my situation. And that if I can't, if I am physically restrained or something, then perhaps only my thoughts.
randyrand 6y ago
Daylight savings needs to be permanent
- DudeInBasement 6y ago
  I'm sure it causes untold amounts of damage
- snvzz 6y ago
  permanently eradicated.
- jschulenklopper 6y ago
  Scientists happen to disagree, https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780 https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780
friedman23 6y ago
Early into quarantine I noticed I was feeling intense lethargy, apathy (and anxiety) with mood swings. I could not get any work done. My sleep schedule was inconsistent. Some days I wouldn't sleep till 4 am and wake up at 12pm. Other days I would sleep at 10pm and wake up at 5am. I couldn't focus in any meetings, etc. Thankfully I was a high performer pre covid so I didn't get punished for this. It took me two months into covid to realize something was wrong. I scheduled a meeting with a psychiatrist and requested adderall. I was mostly trying to fix my issues with work. Obviously he was hesitant to give me it and instead gave me prozac. Prozac was absolutely horrible, it made my apathy worse and heightened the intensity of my mood swings. I stopped after a week. My next appointment I tried wellbutrin and I have to say this drug is life changing. It's helped me regulate my eating and sleeping patterns, I can focus through entire meeting at work. I can actually get stuff done and Im not completely apathetic towards life. Note: drugs affect people in different ways. My experience might not be yours but I recommend if you are struggling to try seeking help.
damnencryption 6y ago
I am much better than I was in the past 2 years this year. I still suffer from depression but I have found ways to deal with it. I am better at redirecting thoughts and containing them. I was able to finish few books in the last 2 weeks and continue with a morning walk routine. Those books really helped me understood why I was failing at modern life. I cut mainstream social media from my life and reduced screen time. I am more optimistic. I am able to fight against the profitable pessimism. I am reducing the urge to hoard more material belongings. I learnt that on HN. I was able to let go off fancy toys and electronics that I didn't use anymore but kept because I bought them and grown attached to them. If I don't use it, it's better someone else can. I don't want to keep them on eBay for months. 4x faster than before? I don't care to look more unless I need it. I re-evaluate my room and budget every month in order to cut down what isn't needed. If I don't do that, I will keep using past as a justification for piling up more til I suffocate between Amazon boxes. I bought a dustbin for my neighborhood because people were throwing wrappers outside and placed it with a note. So far, some people are using it and that makes me happy. Reciprocity is a powerful tool and I am optimistic someone will think about what I did and do the same in future. I write more using a paper notebook. goals, priorities, learnings, etc. Software note taking tools suck because they limit your freedom on what you can do. At the end of my todos, I make origami pets from them as a reminder of what I able to accomplish. Don't be afraid of being messy. Here's my notes from a few days ago: https://ibb.co/yPGb4Z8 https://ibb.co/yPGb4Z8 They aren't coherent but just enough to remind me.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Would you mind sharing the titles of the books?
  - damnencryption 6y ago
    Essentialism, influence, Putin: prisoner of power, no longer human, invisible cities, and how to lie with statistics. I am currently going through psychology of money (although it doesn't seem that interesting yet) but I can take up a few recommendations if you have any :) I have been using audible as my primary way to read (listen?) and supplement it with kindle. Reading is too much friction at first but once I get past the first chapter, I am eager to pick up the written book.
throwaway99234 6y ago
Yes, Treatment-Resistant Depression MDD -- F33.2 [1] for the last 15 years. [1] : https://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/F01-F99/F30-F39/F33-/F33.2 https://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/F01-F99/F30-F39/F33-...
WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
I'm a little more irritable than normal. Quarantine has been great for me in almost every way but being cooped up at home while working on my masters is not exactly the best environment on a 750 square feet apartment with family.
ajharrison 6y ago
Vegan diet, intermittent fasting (18/6), exercise, meditation cured my depression.
throwaway9980 6y ago
I draw my strength from the yellow sun. Over the last two weeks my home has tilted ever farther from it. I feel the familiar ebbing of the light. I’ve gotten better at mitigating it over the years. Vitamin D supplementation, light box therapy every morning, and near daily exercise is key. Getting the routine dialed in before mid-November is crucial.
- CamperBob2 6y ago
  One suggestion: lobby your representatives to put a stop to this insane time-changing business, which is basically engineered to engender the symptoms people are reporting in this thread.
  - User23 6y ago
    The time change has no effect on total daylight hours. Nothing is stopping anyone from continuing to get up at the same real time if they want to have the same amount of daylight.
    - PascLeRasc 6y ago
      I used to really enjoy taking a long walk after work to get some sunlight in. Now by the time we're allowed to stop sitting at our desks the sun has already set.
  - PascLeRasc 6y ago
    I've been thinking about this the past few days. I am not being sarcastic here - I believe we need an immediate executive order to roll back the daylight savings time. It is two miniature public health crises, for both vitamin D absorption to mitigate covid as well as mental health. It is going to kill people.
sneak 6y ago
Counter anecdata: This year has been an insufferable slog, but in the last month or so, I've felt better than I have at any other time this year. It started a week or two before I quit Twitter, which I think rules out quitting social mass media as a factor? It's been a long, hard year, and for once I'm doing better in it, even if the outside world seems to be going to hell. It seems the inverse of what should be going on as we head into winter, but I'll take it.
- dasyatidprime 6y ago
  I don't think it rules out the quitting Twitter as a factor as such? A few weeks of response lag as conditioning/expectations gradually recognize the new normal seems likely enough to me.
thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago
Copying my comment from the straw poll post: — I had severe depression for a few years that became debilitating at the start of 2020 causing me to be unable to socialize or work or do anything but sleep. I was a terrible friend, parent, spouse, and employee. I tried multiple anti-depressants and therapists, but nothing helped. This august I found a psychiatrist that also did ketamine treatment and it was a miracle. Literally the day after my first treatment I wasn’t depressed and have had zero depressed feelings since. It was surreal. Depression had define my life for so long. I wish the treatment was more accessible, but unfortunately it is very expensive and not covered by insurance. If anyone is struggling and would like to learn more, please reach out.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  I would like to add to this another less traditional treatment for depression: The medication modafinil. Yes, used for sleep disorders or shift workers to stay awake, but it is really not at all a traditional -etamine stimulant, and it can be extremely effective as an adjunctive treatment for depression, especially used in combination with another medication. Even when medications mostly work, they don't always stop all symptoms. Modafinil is what has kept me functional through those times. Hard to get insurance to cover, but if you use GoodRx you can get generics at a reasonable price.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't copy/paste comments; it lowers the signal/noise and makes merging threads a pain. Linking to the previous comment and maybe adding a bit of context is much better. Edit: like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25098276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25098276!
IAmGraydon 6y ago
I wouldn’t say I feel depressed, but there’s an overarching feeling of claustrophobic suffocation that the confluence of current events is causing. It’s a feeling of foreboding. Some subconscious part of my brain is predicting a future that none of us wants to see. So depression? No. Fear? Definitely.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  That's anxiety. Anxiety is expecting a negative future / negative outcome. An anxiety disorder is incorrectly assuming a negative future, often frequently and often. If you're not regularly concerned about the future, then it's okay, it will go away. Though, maybe a therapist can help teach you ways to relax in the meantime? It's going to be two months before anything scary can happen, so that's a long time to be anxious. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
jrexilius 6y ago
two weeks?.. you mean 8 months?..
audmiral 6y ago
Yep
dang 6y ago
Now there are two depression threads on the front page. We usually don't allow that (I mean same-topic frontpage threads, not depression threads). Normally the easy answer would be to downweight the follow-up [1], but this post is nicely reminding the community that HN polls are a thing. So I don't know what to do! I'm tempted to put up a poll asking whether to keep the poll or the original thread, but I have to go offline for 90 minutes and I don't want HN to blow any fuses. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=follow-up%20by%3Adang&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=follow-up%20by%3Adang&dateRang...
- aboringusername 6y ago
  Is there a reason the submit page doesn't have a link for making a poll? Perhaps the lack of discoverability is hindering this somewhat? I had no idea polls were even a thing here (first I've ever seen, thought it was a 'beta'/test feature).
  - dang 6y ago
    A secret reward for people who read the FAQ? I don't know. It hasn't ever really been HN's way to prioritize discoverabillity. That has downsides of course.
- Firerouge 6y ago
  This poll isn't particularly well formed, particularly it lacks an option for chronic depressive symptoms, every day. It seems likely the options are lacking in the lower end of the spectrum as well, there's a big jump between not at all and several days worth of symptoms
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    Sure, it is not a meaningful diagnostic tool or method to collect a representative sample from HN, but it is sparking meaningful conversation, so I hope Dang does not remove it based on the merits of its survey design.
zimmertr 6y ago
I cut out all alcohol and caffeine for the month of November. It has done wonders for my mental health. So no, I haven't. But I can definitely say I was in the months prior.
dasyatidprime 6y ago
The front page is giving me an inconsistent idea of whether this has somehow supplanted the other strawpoll thread, so I'll just point to my comments there (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25098076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25098076) and note that the second one involves me trying to ramp into accepting little code commissions as part of trying to stabilize (nudge me at profile email if you want to, low-effort one-liners accepted).
vegadw 6y ago
I just went though what might be covid. I'm 22 and have a prior heart condition, and all week I felt like someoned had taken a baseball bat to my chest and was very tired. What was I doing during this time? Dealing with crammed in homework for 4 high level engineering classes that didn't keep up with the shortened length of this semester well. I think not experiencing dread and depressive symptoms in my situation would be weird. Universities and Colleges right now are pretending to be accommodating, but the stress on students is outright dangerous right now. Oh, and the cherry on top? My university is going to have a football game on campus the same day as many of us are taking on-campus finals. Brilliant. So, I'm both depressed and pissed off. Running on fumes of rage? Motivated by the existential dread of my impending student loans for a semester of education worse that I could have gotten off of YouTube? I don't know man. I just want to not feel like death and have time (and the ability) to breathe.
- glangdale 6y ago
  Depressive symptoms are apparently quite common post-COVID, so this might be contributing further to what is objectively an already terribly stressful situation. Do reach out to any reliable support you feel you can get to. A lot of university counsellors are apparently not that great, but if you've got a network to help you, use it. Dealing with the pressure of university work plus external stuff can put anyone into a really bad place (speaking from personal experience and the experience of a number of other people I knew from ugrad and grad school).
- pmiller2 6y ago
  This is not a diagnosis, but you should evaluated by a professional for PTSD.
abalaji 6y ago
Since when does Hacker News have polls?
winocm 6y ago
Yes. Treatment resistant depression for about... 5 years or so, with it getting so bad recently (in this year) that I've just about given up on life.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Assuming you've tried the medication route, there's one that not too many psychiatrists are aware of for its off-label depression use, specifically for treatment-resistant depression: Modafinil. Don't let a cursory search warn you off, it is not a traditional stimulant, and not considered addictive. It can also be an excellent second-line treatment for depression. It's what keeps me functional during periods where depression bleeds through my normal treatment plan. Check out this article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16035049/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16035049/
2TangerineDream 6y ago
We are collectively going through the equalivalent to PTSD. We may not have been through a war. Witnessed death. We have though seen the effects of what isolation, lack of touch, loss person to person interaction leads to. Its depression. Plain and simple. Our minds are designed so that we are effected by our environment. We have collectively been feeling anxiety. We do not know what tomorrow will bring. And so it's 'normal' that we are all depressed. And surprisingly as someone who is naturely optimistic feeling this way is alien. And admitedly a strange thing.
Technically 6y ago
It seems easier to masturbate than to post this. Edit: I am wrong, it is astonishingly easy to post here.
bradlys 6y ago
I definitely feel worse since daylight savings started. Now when work is done, the sun is completely gone. A few weeks ago, there was at least a hint of it and an evening walk could be done during a sunset. Not so much anymore. It feels like I'm working even more now and I know I'm not even working that many hours physically. (Mentally tho...) I do know that I let more negative thoughts in as the night grows. It's one of the reasons I hate short days and daylight savings. The more night, the more I'm inside wishing I could get out of this shit hole. Felt depressive symptoms? Almost everyday for over a decade. Would I say I'm depressed though? No. And that's not due to stigma of it or something. I see a therapist but I don't feel depressed and he doesn't seem to think I'm depressed. There's something special about what I'd consider depression. Something where you're depressed because there's a hopelessness to your situation and it's somewhat unreasonable to feel that way for as long as you have. I think of it like: "Is someone who is being tortured everyday in a prison cell and know there's no chance they'll be able to escape depressed if they're acting sad all the time?" <-- I feel that way in my life at times because that's what I deal with. It isn't physical torture but more of emotional and psychological. Knowing that you could maybe make it in an area but are not and might not ever... it's draining. When you're completely on your own for it and no one you've ever grown up with has ever gotten anywhere near where you're at or done things like you've done... And the work is terrible and the people are horrible. And no one can support you except yourself... It just... well, it's draining. So, I feel drained most days. Depressed? Not really. Again, if the context was different, I'd feel fine and be quite happy day to day (give me money, give my a nice manager, give me decent work). It's that the context is so bad. I tend to think of depression as... almost no matter the context, you're gonna be sad and not enjoying things. I still enjoy stuff - it's just that I have that nagging thought of how I need to keep pushing... I need to get further because I'm still so far behind from what I wanted to be. And I don't know how to get there because I've never seen anyone like me do it.
aboringusername 6y ago
Well...Although I am happy in 'regular' life, it seems the more you linger over the constant stream of humanities affairs the more desperate (and depressing) it seems... HN promotes interesting discussion; MacOS breaks because Apple's servers are pooped, Google is sued for using mobile data to send them data, privacy concerns in every major OS while the EU is focused on taking down content in record times and abolishing encryption or mandating access to every data record created by any EU citizen that must be stored for the rest of time, increasingly AI is used to judge our posts for compliance and sometimes it makes mistakes such as when Youtube goes haywire and bans/deletes you because it doesn't understand nuance/context as you try to raise a twitter/reddit/PR storm and "we're very sorry this happened, your channel is blessed again until next time", at the same time there's misinformation everywhere as the world's top authorities such as the POTUS is knowingly spreading FUD causing anger and division in society and leading to real world consequences (even death in some cases) as it is apparent Twitter is out of control yet they love the attention said POTUS has provided their platform yet if you look at comments/replies it's just insanity, yet we keep feeding the algorithms that are implicit in our own bias and whatever is promoted to us must be the truth whilst opposing viewpoints are hidden in favor of your own beliefs that these algorithms keep you locked in to, as people's entire experiences of what was once the beautiful web had to offer is now witted down to just a few small platforms, giants such as Amazon use its leverage to remove competitors it dislikes and is often 'the' marketplace people frequent impacting smaller businesses as they struggle to compete on Amazon's terms as local services (such as libraries) need FB to advertise their affairs to the local community otherwise the information doesn't exist and again has real-world consequences...And yet we carry on day by day as if everything is fine and dandy... ...So yeah, life is great! but don't worry, I am sure some super AI knows who is writing this message and will ding me a few points on the scale...Let's hope it's enough to keep them at bay and not get sent off (there was news a while back about an 'AI' studying for suicide references in a games chat and alerting the authorities, I kid you not). Welcome to 2020.
danieltillett 6y ago
Wow what happened to all the normal people? I am not depressed and never have been depressed. Life has never been easier or safer for most people and we have a poll result where 2/3rd of people are claiming to be clinically depressed?
- parsimoniousplb 6y ago
  Exactly my thoughts. I thought this place had become more negative, but I'm still shocked at the results. Perhaps it's time to move on and find more positive technology communities. You don't happen to know any?
  - danieltillett 6y ago
    I have pretty much moved on from HN. It used to be the place to learn first hand from people doing amazing things in tech, these days it seems to be a nest of negative nut jobs whining about how hard their life is while holding 6 figure desk jobs. Yes I know you are not supposed to mourn for the old HN, but I do. I feel like HN should purge the last 5 years of posts and start again.
- hevelvarik 6y ago
  These polls are self selecting. People round here aren’t into polls generally (evidenced by that the feature is largely unknown) and probably rarely respond to them. An exception to that is when the poll positives speak directly to something you care deeply about and identify strongly with. On top of that people who are going through this may be inclined to share not least because it’s always comforting to those going through an issue to know that they aren’t alone. In sum, this poll is more an opportunity to share and participate in discussion about this issue than it is about determining the proportion of hn readers who are dealing with this issue
  - danieltillett 6y ago
    I hope you are right or there is something very broken with us as a group.
superasn 6y ago
I feel low some days but I was able to figure out my symptoms were the result of burnout. And coincidentally the best advice for dealing with it is I got from HN comment that really gave me a huge insight into why i was feeling the way I was feeling and a simple fix to remedy it somewhat. Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your brain to associate work with failure. Subconsciously, then eventually, consciously, you wonder if it's worth it. The best way to prevent burnout is to follow up a serious failure with doing small things that you know are going to work. As a biologist, I frequently put in 50-70 and sometimes 100 hour workweeks. The very nature of experimental science (lots of unknowns) means that failure happens. The nature of the culture means that grad students are "groomed" by sticking them on low-probability of success, high reward fishing expeditions (gotta get those nature, science papers) I used to burn out for months after accumulating many many hours of work on high-risk projects. I saw other grad students get it really bad, and burn out for years. During my first postdoc, I dated a neuroscientist and reprogrammed my work habits. On the heels of the failure of a project where I have spent weeks building up for, I will quickly force myself to do routine molecular biology, or general lab tasks, or a repeat of an experiment that I have gotten to work in the past. These all have an immediate reward. Now I don't burn out anymore, and find it easier to re-attempt very difficult things, with a clearer mindset. For coders, I would posit that most burnout comes on the heels of failure that is not in the hands of the coder (management decisions, market realities, etc). My suggested remedy would be to reassociate work with success by doing routine things such as debugging or code testing that will restore the act of working with the little "pops" of endorphins. That is not to say that having a healthy life schedule makes burnout less likely (I think it does; and one should have a healthy lifestyle for its own sake) but I don't think it addresses the main issue. link to original comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5630618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5630618
cupofcoffee 6y ago
Yes, more like past months or so. Simple interactions like doing grocery shopping leave a sinking feeling in my stomach for like hours. Motivation is down the drain as well.
rajacombinator 6y ago
Daylight savings sucks. Big time.
dragontamer 6y ago
I can say "not at all", but mostly because I had a depressive bout that absolutely haunted me for multiple years when I was in High School. Every day, my daydreams would be about whether or not today was the day I'd decide to kill myself to end my misery. The hardest part was finding a way to kill myself without hurting those I did care about: my family. Any way I gamed a suicide: it would result in somebody in my family blaming them-self, or someone else, over it. And I didn't want to die like that. I don't really remember when it started. I know my first serious suicidal thought freaked me out (to the point where I cried myself to sleep that night). But I also know that it didn't take very long until I accepted the constant haunting of suicide as my everyday normal. The period lasted for years. I must emphasize how _NORMAL_ depression feels when you have it. You wake up with it, you got to sleep with it, and then tomorrow morning you wake up with it again. You learn to live with it. You forget what life was like before you had depression. ---------- I don't have any advice for people in depression. All I can say is that I somehow climbed out of it and absolutely don't have it anymore. If I knew how it happened, then I'd tell you. But as far as I can tell, it was just dumb luck. I do have advice for people who are worried about someone with depression however. You cannot convince them that their feelings of depression are "non-normal". Depression is just with you, its something you carry in that period, just how you live your life. The concept that you could even possibly shed the feelings is boggling. If you want to talk about depression, with someone who has depression, then you cannot treat it as if it were "special" or "exotic". Depression is just every-day life for someone with depression. Telling someone that they can "get rid of depression" would be like saying... you don't have to poop anymore. It just doesn't "make sense" on any level when you have depression. I mean, yeah, life would be better if I didn't have to poop all the time, but I expect that I'll have to poop tomorrow.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  I must emphasize how _NORMAL_ depression feels when you have it. Yes. Though that is not always the case, people can experience depression in different ways, but many people don't realize they're depressed until a chance conversation with a doctor raises an alarm bell.
zygotic 6y ago
For me its like surfing, riding a motorbike , or driving a car hard. Scary hit but shows you the way if you can tare right in its face. (I hope that makes sense to someone)
trabant00 6y ago
Another perspective from somebody who used to answer yes for some years: thinking about your health too much is a thing. Try to live as healthy as you can: unprocessed food, drink mostly water, avoid stimulants, exercise, regular sleep, limit screen time, etc. But don't obsess over any of it. Thinking about it, analyzing every sleepless night, bad feeling and chest pain is not healthy at all. I've been there and know other people who have. It starts as a normal concern over one's health but it can become an obsession and a downward spiral. Nowadays I rely on other people in my life to observe from outside if there's obviously something changed about me that might require action. Obviously the opposite extreme exists as well: people who are in terrible health condition and don't even notice. So again, self evaluation is not very good.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  don't obsess over any of it. Thinking about it, analyzing every sleepless night, bad feeling and chest pain is not healthy at all On sleep, exercise, etc., you are absolutely right. And I see what you're getting at with your general comment, but I this part I highlighted implies that a depressed person may have a degree of control over their mental state & ruminations that many people experiencing hardship do not have. For those people, it may, to some extent, be possible to develop coping mechanisms to get there, but if a person lacks strong coping mechanisms then developing them is often sped up significantly through some form of treatment.
- glangdale 6y ago
  Your suggestions are not inherently unreasonable but most of them amount to ways that a out-of-sorts normal person can make themselves feel quite a bit better, and have very little to do with steps that might help someone with severe clinical depression. That long list of things might help someone (especially given "drink mostly water" tends to suggest "don't drink very much alcohol") but it's unlikely to contain anything particularly first-order for a genuinely depressed person, and some of the "don't think too much about your health" suggestions seem actively mischievous. I've known a couple teetotalling regular-schedule folks with great exercise habits etc. etc. who have carried out their praiseworthy and abstemious schedules right up to they moment they stepped off a building or bridge, in one case leaving behind a couple small kids.
nromiun 6y ago
Pretty much everyone I know is either depressed, worried or just bored out of their minds. And it started when the lockdown began. At first everyone was too worried about getting infected. But then everyone started getting infected and everyone survived with mild symptoms. It is a little better now because the lockdown got a little relaxed. But I am surprised how many people are saying they want to go back to their office.
jauer 6y ago
This poll would be more useful if it was bucketed by PHQ-9 scores. Who doesn't experience at least one depressive symptom?
kissgyorgy 6y ago
I have major depressive disorder, but I take Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor (SSRI) type medication, so my mood is kind of stable even despite the pandemic. If you feel depressed, but did not managed to go to a specialist yet, I suggest you try it out because it makes a huge difference.
kissgyorgy 6y ago
If you don't know wheter you have depression, I suggest this questionare: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/depression-test/id666436210#?platform=iphone https://apps.apple.com/us/app/depression-test/id666436210#?p... It consists of 9 questions and surprisingly accurate. It helped me identify my depression.
fasteddie31003 6y ago
I hate to be that guy but 2020 has been one of the best years of my life. My girlfriend and I moved out of our 600 sq/ft apt Oakland apartment for Colorado. We now have a good sized house with a large garage for wood working and my new found love of tig welding. It's honestly more walkable/bikable here than Oakland. My car is unlocked with things people could steal in it right now and I don't have anxiety about it.
- Zebfross 6y ago
  Yeah, it feels selfish, but quarantine has been great for me and my wife’s personal lives. More time together and more time for improving ourselves.
- mjayhn 6y ago
  I mean this is literally all stuff you could have done prior to 2020 and I guarantee you would have had a more enjoyable time doing all of this in 2019. Since you're new to CO I hope you'll also contribute to the local issues. Today we're helping unhoused Coloradans have water to drink at Benedict Fountain Park. We do this every Sunday. https://twitter.com/believeEan/status/1327988637468827649 https://twitter.com/believeEan/status/1327988637468827649
deleted 6y ago
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chris1993 6y ago
Please, if you are polling on a serious mental illness then do include information/links on where to find help. For instance, https://www.beyondblue.org.au/ https://www.beyondblue.org.au/
zshaikhonline 6y ago
yesterday only I faced. I hit myself. For no real reason
emptyparadise 6y ago
It's not fun to live life when you're no longer motivated by your goals and interests and can't feel the warmth in your heart when talking to loved ones.
mathieuh 6y ago
I was a heroin addict for five years and I got clean around this time two years ago. This is always a difficult time of year for me: my father died around this time when I was 12-years-old; I live in the northern latitudes so it's dark all the time; and since it's around the time I got clean I start getting bad cravings again. I want to buy a smart trainer for my bike but they're all sold out at the moment. I'm too scared to ride on the roads at this time of year: it's permanent twilight, the roads are always wet which disguises potholes, and there are dead leaves everywhere. I know that exercise really helps, so I hope I can get that smart trainer soon. I've been going for short walks but I really need that kind of exercise that leaves you struggling to think afterwards.
- rnestler 6y ago
  > I've been going for short walks but I really need that kind of exercise that leaves you struggling to think afterwards. I have started to go running during the lock down in March where I live. I recommend you get a good pair of running shoes if you want to start. Also I used a sports tracker on my phone to track progress, which helped me stay motivated. For me usually after the first 15 minutes of running, my brain stops thinking and is just focusing on the running and my immediate surroundings.
azinman2 6y ago
The past two weeks includes the election. Maybe this question should be a little more time shifted.
throwaway4good 6y ago
Various forms of lockdowns + extensive work from home + november => a wave of depression at the scale of two unsurpressed hacker news threads! Question is what can we do? Without resorting to therapists and pills ... Maybe the first thing is to have a bit humour and perspective about it - reminding ourselves that this too shall pass. Here is a German lock yourselves at home government propaganda piece for your entertainment: https://twitter.com/antoni_UK/status/1327701477008285696 https://twitter.com/antoni_UK/status/1327701477008285696
- kzrdude 6y ago
  I'm trying to sleep better (not going so well), sleep deprivation is a simple but important thing that can trigger a vicious cycle for me.
  - throwaway4good 6y ago
    I don't know your situation. But one of the things you get from a normal job is a regular schedule. If you start working from home you can all of sudden let go of that schedule. Working at odd hours, only being tied down by a few online meetings. The trick is of course recognising what has happened and then find of way of recreating the missing bits: I.e. forcing a 9-5 schedule on your work even if you don't have to.
- lgvld 6y ago
  OK thanks for the video. ;-) At first it really sounded like plain propaganda, but actually... it’s quite funny. Way less dramatic that any other covid movie I’ve seen. Well played, I guess. Communication is a key, if you want to gain (some) acceptance from people. What youngsters particulary don’t want is being frown upon and treated like irresponsible kids -- and this video contains enough humour to make the point, without sounding dumb and patronizing.
throwaway378037 6y ago
Every day. Combination of acute/situational and long term trauma/PTSD. Will hopefully get better when I leave my job in a few months and take time out to recover.
2ion 6y ago
Hearing new stuff like https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215863v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215863v... every day and witnessing the stupidity of the populace at large does not help.
a4444f 6y ago
Consider non-institutionalized ideas: - music (including live music (streaming is fine)) - dance - talking with random people about mostly anything (dialup smartphone app) - rest - something else
skytreader 6y ago
"Several days" I got close to clinical depression before so I know what it feels like. Today, what I feel is something I attribute to Autumn's reduced daylight (darned harsher in Northern Germany, where even the sun seems to need government clearance to even just appear nowadays, and the government is most of the time too busy with other things to grant it so), plus the disruptions of being in "quarantine" (yeah unfortunately I haven't really settled to my personal "new normal" yet). On the bright side, I've actually managed to achieve several of the goals I set myself to back when we thought WFH would just be, 2-4 months. I overplan, there's usually a ton of things I want to do and achieve, no way it would've fit in that initial 2-4 months. Now, I'm actually pretty satisfied with myself if I think about it.
bufferoverflow 6y ago
Take you vitamins and minerals and zinc, people. Or better, do a blood test and take what you're low on.
- deleted 6y ago
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csmiller 6y ago
In the past I was so severely depressed I couldn’t attend school for several months, and what I feel now is nothing compared to that. Nonetheless, it’s hard to describe my current mood as anything other than depressed.
konschubert 6y ago
There is no choice between “Several days” and “not at all”
tomsi 6y ago
There are a lot great comments, tips and tricks in here to help you cope. The only thing I’d recommend that I didn’t see here is to read this small book: The untethered soul by Michael Singer It teaches you how to disconnect your Self from your thoughts and emotions and instead just to observe them. I found it a great read whether one is depressed or not.
beervirus 6y ago
Is boredom drinking a symptom? Then yeah.
thebigspacefuck 6y ago
I probably have some mild symptoms as I’ve been inclined to have most of my life, but some low hanging fruit for me is to stop using my phone to read the news or listen to political podcasts as much, get better sleep, eat better food and not eat as much or too much before bed, go for more walks or get some mild exercise, spend time outdoors, call my friends and family, and spend some time doing nothing or chill things, even things like laundry or cleaning, where my mind can wander just to internally recalibrate. I’ve been putting my phone down more and it makes a huge difference. If I’ve done all those things (or feel incapable of doing/changing any one of those of things) and I’m still feeling symptoms for two weeks then it’s probably time to talk to somebody. Working remote and not being able to get out as much has really messed with my normal routine of getting dressed, eating breakfast, going to sleep at a normal hour, so it’s something I’ve had to get better about and forgive myself for not being better about and remind myself that it is still different than normal and that is why I don’t necessarily feel normal.
tomp 6y ago
I found this post a very interesting perspective. TL;DR: count your blessing if you're feeling "just fine". http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/12/24/how-bad-are-things/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/12/24/how-bad-are-things/ archived link with nicer design: http://archive.is/tLNDq http://archive.is/tLNDq
mjayhn 6y ago
As someone who has dealt with depression their entire life it's really something to start to see people who have never, ever dealt with it begin to try to compartmentalize their lives from their depression and look for every other option before declaring it depression. Like it's some horrible disease you'd never want to catch, like any of us have the option. I really hate that it took this but I've had my feelings/depression talked down so much by people who don't understand depression, don't believe it's a real thing, etc. I've had so many conversations with friends this year that go like this; "I've lost my entire personality, I can't motivate myself to get out of bed.. whats wrong with me, is this depression?" Yes, yes it is. Maybe it's temporary, maybe it's acute or chronic, but that is depression. You never know how long it will last, what it will take from you or how quickly you can overcome it. Be kind to people. edit: Reading this again I can't shake that some of you are just so far removed from actually understanding your own feelings and emotions that you can't even recognize that you're depressed. It's absolutely fascinating. "What are depressive symptoms?" I'll say that one positive of this struggle throughout my life is that I've learned which emotions and feelings I can trust or let guide me. I often don't get it right and focus on the negative but I'm very glad I'm cognizant and it's a bright burning fire of "Yeah I'm depressed this week oh boy let's work on this, I need to make some changes."
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  > some of you are just so far removed from actually understanding your own feelings and emotions that you can't even recognize that you're depressed For example, I am quite aware that I have some feeling X. I am just not sure whether other people use the word "depression" to refer to X, or something else. Maybe "depression" actually refers to 10 times X, how am I supposed to know? Sometimes people use the same words to describe different things (or different degrees of the same thing), sometimes people use different words to describe the same thing. I don't have a direct access to your feelings, so how am I supposed to tell whether my feelings are the same?
  - cutemonster 6y ago
    I've been wondering about that me too I wonder what could be good ways to "calibrate" one's words against each other So thereafter two people who say "depression" mean the same thing and X strength
dcsan 6y ago
the last few days in the US were a rollercoaster but anxiety is not depression.
edsonmedina 6y ago
No
unkulunkulu 6y ago
I am just staring to realize that along with some bad decisions, wrong understanding of life and people and suboptimal skill and knowledge acquisition in past years I must have some degree of lasting depression. One aspect of positive change that I do notice now that was totally missing is literally feeling dopamine “scent” or “grasp” when contemplating something important I need to do among the things that I chose to be doing like my job and side projects, in the worse times it all felt like a burden, something I just owe to myself. But little by little I start to remember that I love doing a lot about it. Hopefully the dopamine gears will continue turning and speeding up!
sjg007 6y ago
I encourage anyone feeling depressed here to read the book Feeling Great by Dr. David Burns. Also you can listen to his podcast: https://feelinggood.com/category/dr-davids-blogs/feeling-good-podcast/ https://feelinggood.com/category/dr-davids-blogs/feeling-goo... His podcasts cover a lot of the book and have some live therapy sessions etc... If you are in the Bay area he works with a clinic that dos TEAM therapy in Mountain View. I consider myself an expert in depression and anxiety having had them since I was a teenager. His book Feeling Good helped me. I first picked it up 10-15 years ago and never read it. I finally did read some of it in the past 2 years, but in actuality it has been the podcasts that have really helped. There's another podcast called "Therapist Uncensored" that is also really great.
golergka 6y ago
2020 has been the first year I feel like I'm getting out of a chronic depression I've struggled with my whole life. Transition to remote has been incredible boon for my mental health, years of work in therapy are finally paying off, I'm using much less alcohol and drugs and do it much more responsibly. Not a single day when I just can't get out of bed and answer any calls, even in November. Really feel like I'm an outlier here, but it's really possible to fight this and get better, even if you've felt this way from early childhood.

jonnytran 6y ago

Any recommendations on brands for good decaf? I've never tasted decaf coffee that wasn't awful.

roflc0ptic 6y ago
Decaf kind of necessarily tastes bad - the decaffeination process removes a bunch of the aromatic compounds that provide the pleasant flavor. After an acclimation period, herbal tea can be a satisfying substitute.
proverbialbunny 6y ago
If you're in the US: https://www.gocupper.com/ https://www.gocupper.com/ (No affiliation.) I drink espresso so I'm biased towards certain beans. What you drink, how you drink, and ofc what your tastes are will drastically change what you like. I can tell you, if you don't use a burr grinder it can be hard to tell the difference between most high end beans, even for filter coffee, so there is more to it than just getting the world's best beans. As far as high end beans go there are three primary categories: - nutty - chocolatey - fruity Often times nutty beans will be called chocolatey, because chocolate is considered a higher grade, but there is a difference. If you want to play with it, a fun goal is to find the best beans for your setup from each category. Chocolatey beans can be fun to explore with sweet 'n condensed milk sometimes as well, just for the fun of it. Nutty beans you usually can't taste unless you're using an espresso machine. It's typically subtle. Fruity is the kind of beans you'll typically find in a high end café in an urban area and can be quite good when brewing pour over. However, they can be high in acid, but a high end fruity bean will have low acid. Those are rare and tend to be reserved for espresso. Years ago before Blue Bottle got bought arguably their best tasting beans was their decaf. I think they wanted to show to the world decaf can taste good. I guess it wasn't making money, because the first thing that changed when they got bought was the decaf switched to something not very good tasting. Since then I've been slowly going through decaf espresso beans all over the world trying to find something as good. I've found good beans, but nothing as good.

tbenst 6y ago
This is a kind and thoughtful reply. I would push back on the notion that there has to be a cause for depression. Maybe there is, but it can lead to the dangerous conclusion that it’s somehow one’s fault, when it’s actually a maladaptive behavioral state; a disease. Fully agree with your advice to talk to a professional.
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  Thanks. I see how that could be a concern. To address it, there can be causality without fault. Fault is a kind of blame. Blame is when you take out a timeline and put your finger down on an arbitrary part and say, "It's because of this." and fault is taking that arbitrary point and reducing the event down into actors by saying, "It's because of you everything went wrong." Looking closely, fault provides no benefit. You can grow and improve by looking at causality. You can learn why someone did what they did and learn from that, which is far more beneficial than the overly reductionist fault. Fault as a default is a lazy way of thinking. Instead we can see the ignorance in ones decision, or the defensiveness in ones decision when they assume another was being harmful to them (eg arguing or retaliation), or we can see the short sighted selfishness in some rare situations (eg, narcissism). Fault is not necessary. It's a hindrance towards a higher resolution view and from that greater awareness comes greater learning capacity, a heightened wisdom, and possibly even heightened intelligence.
  - Spoom 6y ago
    There are scenarios where there is not a clear cause that is within the person's control. Granted, I think your suggestions are great places to start, and helpful for many. That said, some cases of depression cannot be effectively treated without therapy or medication, and I think it's a bit... incomplete to suggest otherwise.
    - proverbialbunny 6y ago
      No one knows that until they've exhausted other options. Hope is not a bad thing, unless you want to sit around and do nothing with your life and feel terrible. To be concerned with the impossible is a symptom and a cause of depression, called learned helplessness.
- Pokepokalypse 6y ago
  That's true, and it's a standard grief-mechanism to try to look for a cause. Especially people with an analytical personality. Their go-to emotional coping mechanism for bad feelings can become to try to analyzed and problem-solve. And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it. The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job.
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    >The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job. If you try to fight stress (which masquerades itself as problem-solving) it will create more stress. When you're okay in the present moment -- you've let go and accepted how you feel through recognizing the stress is temporary like a rain cloud; it will go away without doing anything -- you can passively and non-interactively observe what is going on, which is the beginning of learning. This learning then turns into answers or at first something to talk about with a therapist. Therapy can help quite a bit with this one. This process of passively observing in a relaxed state no matter how bad you feel, is called meditation, and it's what you're talking about, "let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions". >And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it. That's not really true though. The high majority (88%) of people who go in for CBT therapy are cured from their depression in under 3 months, and of the majority who do not, the largest group is avoidant of psychological work. Yes, there is a small subset of incurable depression. The current theory is it has to do with ones gut biome, but those are estimated to be around 1% of people with depression, and for the majority of those people antidepressants do nothing. They have this constant stomach ache. However, those people can still get benefit by learning how to deal with the situation and live a happy and healthy life. Eg, changing diet can remove many of the symptoms. Calling it depression is even somewhat controversial, because of how different it is from all of the other kinds of depression. People have yet to realize how far modern psychology has come, in part because most psychologists today practice an ancient form that barely, if at all, helps.
- sincarne 6y ago
  Well said regarding “cause.” Depression often has a trigger, but that is separate from a cause. The trigger-and a pandemic is a great one-is just the thing that exacerbates an existing, possibly dormant, condition.
suifbwish 6y ago
Great advice. I would add that another strategy that has been useful to many is that when you are feeling negative emotions stirring up uncontrollably, it’s important to remember they aren’t real. They are just feelings. At the end of the day all you have is your body, mind, health and wealth. However you feel about those things will change quite a bit throughout the average persons lifetime. What matters today might not matter tomorrow.
- sleazy_b 6y ago
  I think they are real. Just because they are a temporary state or contradicted by other real feelings doesn’t make them not real. For me it has been helpful to remember that how I’m feeling now is not the only way I’ll feel and how I’m thinking about a subject is not the only way I have to think about that subject. Feelings and thoughts change, as you said.
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    I think what suifbwish is getting at is the more meta-physical nature of emotions. What I mean by that is one has strong vivid thought about some doom that will come or some horrible thing that happened in the past and they are strong emotions. It's easy to get caught up in them and lose the present moment. When you lose the present moment your mind can not differentiate between now and a memory, so it thinks the memory is now and responds accordingly. Memories and emotions are not "real" in that they are not the present moment, and being able to stay grounded in the present moment while having these thoughts can help. In metaphor, it's like pinching yourself while dreaming. What imo helps the most is realizing everything is impermanent / temporary. If you have a particularly gruesome emotion you can know you don't have to do anything, because it will go away on its own, like a rain cloud, in due time. So you can relax even while freaking out.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  > ... it’s important to remember they aren’t real. They are just feelings. what helps me get through the day is exactly this. we're just a sack of liquid chemical that constantly chances its structure. the feeling I experience within a time span of 30 minutes alone between waking up and having my first coffee, or in between forcing myself to put on my running gear and returning from a run, are changing everything. and if things can change in only a few minutes, how I perceive the world over a longer time can too. some of this comes naturally with age when hormones change. it does have upsides when not everything and everyone is able to spoil my day. these days I make sure I do not add things into my life as the first approach but to see what I can subtract in order to troubleshot my body and feelings. only after I can't take anything away any more do I see what I might need (and where others earn money on me and are motivated to push me into that direction. some examples that help me personally battle decades of depression: - eat only half the amount or try intermittent fasting for a month - cut the booze or weed (one day a week max less if I can) - take daily walks/runs of at least 30 mins. - start the morning with a cold shower (prepares me mentally that my day might not be smooth and certainly won't start comfortable) - leave your phone at home when going out and see how that makes you feel. if you think this is nuts or makes you uncomfortable think about why the lack of an electronic device makes you feel this way. - always shower right after returning from work (or finishing work). matter of habit for me since I didn't always have an office job. it allows me to unwind and "wash away" all the work stuff. reminds me that I am now at home and prep myself to have different thoughts (if you prefer a bath that's cool but in my case with kids/family I never had time to disappear into the bath the moment I got home. 10 mins shower was always possible). I find this really valuable in a WFH scenario. these days I run/exercise right after work so the shower is simply needed anyway in case of burn-out: - compartmentalize my work and private life as much as possible (time wise but if possible also location: in WFH this means work-laptop/phone remains in my home-office powered down as an extra hurdle to avoid me popping in at 23:00 to check up on an important thought ...). - in case of burn-out: maybe my job is, but my private life isn't a hamster-wheel. cut the training-plan crap and goal setting to a minimum. it's OK to just go for a run and not worry about reaching the correct times set out in the training plan in prep for a marathon where I'm competing against thousands of others. it's OK to compete for fun but don't overdo it. but everything what parent & GP said too. About brain fog, mind-wandering etc: I have this since at least 2012. It came with my burn-out back then and a complete melt-down and dissolution of my personality. I feel like my head is wrapped in cotton or there is some barrier between me and my outside world. at the same time I have this I also gained the ability of sitting still without any desire or urge to push forward with anything if I want to. Might be an age thing but I'm now able to play with my own thoughts all day long and don't get stressed by the idea of not communicating with anyone. I still enjoy company and conversation but I also value being able to spend time simply sitting there and thinking (like a lunatic perhaps idk).
hyperpallium2 6y ago
doing the exact opposite of how you feel It can be a surprising truth that you have the freedom to choose to do something, even if you don't feel you want to. Your agency is not enslaved to your emotions. Another tack is to approach the activity as an experiment or exploration. Not I must do this, or even if I do this it will help, but: I wonder if it will help, or even I bet it won't, let's see who's right!
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  I see even when people can rationalize it correctly, that is see the long term gains from doing it, tend to still be enslaved to their present feelings if those feelings are strong enough. This is the struggle of depression. I find for situations like that, the blastoff technique works well. When you find you need to do something, instead of thinking about it, start counting backwards from 5, like you're a rocket getting ready to blastoff. It takes 4-5 seconds for the other part of the mind to come in and override the action, so as long as you jump out of bed before that timer hits zero, it's easy. This way you can do whatever it is you need to get done regardless how you feel. You can always think about how to do it once you've gotten started. It sounds silly but it works very well and is super easy to do. A zen teacher once told me, "Don't think. Do." to mean basically the same thing.
  - cutemonster 6y ago
    > it takes 4-5 seconds for the other part of the mind to come in and override the action, so as long as ... before that Meaning, for the stone age feelings parts of the brain, to realize that "but I want to stay in bed"? If one acts faster than that part of the brain, then it's harder for it to mess things up? (Like, feeling sad, worrying, doing nothing)
    - proverbialbunny 6y ago
      Basically.
      - 6y ago

ineedasername 6y ago

Those are without a doubt some clear symptoms of depression. Two VERY VERY IMPORTANT THINGS: 1) A good first step is to see your GP, if you have one, and if you don't look up some reviews and find a decent one. If you're at the point where you lack the motivation to even do that, ask a friend or loved one to do it for you. If you don't have a resource like that around you, just click this link & put in your own zip code: https://www.healthgrades.com/usearch?what=General%20Medical%20Practice&where=Beverly%20Hills%2C%20CA%2090210&pt=34.103131%2C-118.416253&pageNum=1&sort.provider=bestmatch&state=CA&zip=90210 https://www.healthgrades.com/usearch?what=General%20Medical%... You see a GP first because they should run something like a complete metabolic panel along with tests for things like vitamin D levels. It's entirely possible to get mis-diagnosed with (psychological) depression when there is a more concrete metabolic cause. Other readers, please please don't downvote this next part for language, use of caps, etc., this is seriously important 2) About it never going away. Oh hell that's the feeling all right. But here's the thing about a depressed brain telling you things: IT IS A FUCKING LIAR. Your mind tells you that, so you feel worse, and it feels even harder to over come, and the spiral continues. You CAN feel better. It might honestly be the hardest thing you ever do, but you have to claw back up inch by inch. Shit, inches can be hard at times. Go for millimeters when you need to. When you get pushed back down at times, IT'S TEMPORARY. Just keep taking that tiny step in front of you. One. Tiny. Step. Motivation is hard. Doing things you liked before is hard. Focus on doing small things. Focus on finding 5 minutes, or one minute, of distraction from your headspace at a time. A good simple technique is to overload your physical senses: 1) Light a candle/spray some scent 2) Put on some background noise-- music, anything 3) Fill a glass (real glass to conduct the cold) to the top with ice, and ANYTHING carbonated. If you don't do soda, go for seltzer or something. Wrap your hands around the cold glass. Keep it near your lips & take sips. You've got all 5 senses covered: Smell, sound, touching the cold, hearing the fizz of the bubbles, the taste as you sip & sensation of the carbonation. You're brain does have a bandwidth limit, and hitting all 5 senses saturates a lot of it. An ice-cold shower is also good. These things aren't silver bullets, aren't a cure: You're looking to get incremental periods of time where you don't feel like crap. Over time, they can build, and get easier. Look for other small 5 minute distractions that take you out of your head, whatever works. Getting out of this is a game of inches. Finally: NONE of #2 replaces treatment. It's a single coping mechanism that can work to take the slightest edge off things. Therapy, medication if needed, those should be on your list for consideration. Maybe check out the DBSA: https://www.dbsalliance.org/support/ https://www.dbsalliance.org/support/ Groups are everywhere, and if that's not your thing or none are actually near you, they do daily online meetings. Talk or not, or just take it in. Sometimes knowing it's not just you can help, but you'll also hear how other people cope with this. A good inventory of coping mechanisms to take the edge off is very important. IT WON'T LAST FOREVER. YOU CAN FEEL BETTER.

proverbialbunny 6y ago
Just to geek out, a fun fact about why one often feels like depression will last forever is due to memory compartmentalization. To most anyone thoughts that pop up in our head come out of a black hole, an unknown. What's actually happening is we're seeing something in the present moment (thinking memories in the present moment too) and that thing we're seeing causes an emotional response, often an unconscious one. The unconscious mind then looks for neighboring memories by emotional lookup and brings those familiar memories up into conscious thought, which is how ideas pop up in our head. This is a pretty profound insight, because for example, it means when one is in a depressed state, if it is strong enough, all they can remember is memories of being in a similar emotional state causing a memory compartmentalization. This forgetting of positive memories makes depression seem like it's forever. One helpful thing is a photo of a good memory, or a letter to ones self, or another form of nostalgia, which can then pull the person out of the depressed episode. For some people it's enough to end the depression then and there in its tracks. Likewise, from this understanding, it can be easy to see the challenge therapists face regarding depression and other memory compartmentalization related psychological disorders, because their patient forgets instructions that could help them when they need it most. This also shows how manipulation works. How, emotional language can determine how a person thinks, programming them. One fun experiment is to watch a bit of Fox and look at the emotions instead of what they're directly saying. You'll start to see things like they're telling people to not trust others, for example, or like how they were saying anything regarding Biden is boring, so you shouldn't watch it, and so on. Manipulation is controversial to talk about, but so is depression, so fuck it. Let's have some fun. ^_^
- dinglefairy 6y ago
  you're quite right about this. although i would say that we do actually store memories in our bodies. this is where extended abuse and trauma really take their toll on people. think about shell shock in veterans. they train and train for combat. then they see combat and the trauma then embeds itself in the 'muscle memory' of training. then something random happens but triggers the muscle memory and the memories come flooding back. same for say, abused wives. say they get out of their situation and meet a nice person. then one day that person gets angry that the dog shat in their best shoes and they have a fit which reminds her of her previous relationship. the memories come flooding back. depression is the same. for me it's been a recurring failure of academic and meritorious achievements. in our society not achieving these things is like a frying pan in the face when you want to do something that requires experience say. sure, I've learned to duck, but everytime life swings a frying pan at my face [being fired, not meeting qualifications, being considered unreliable/unintelligent etc] all those old memories come back. so you end up dodging one frying pan and get hit by another, as if there were some kind of compound interest frying pan abyss. my metaphor for the muscle memory of depression. eventually you just take the hits cause what's the use in trying to dodge the pan? i will say this though; after being on disability for a decade there is something bitter sweet about the rising levels of depression brought on by covid. while i don't wish depression on anybody whatsoever, and hope one day we'll find some perfect somatic solution to it, misery really does love company. I'm not sure how to get the depression out of the muscle memory, but i do know we need to do a better job of getting people away from their trauma.

zygotic 6y ago
Millions? Wheres your fuckin numbers boy?
- friendlybus 6y ago
  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ I can google for others too, I don't think the numbers will sway your opinion though.
  - zygotic 6y ago
    can you count? 1 is not a plural. And btw how many people die every day? Count the excess, The abnormal///// Your looking at shadows mate. People start wars for stupid arse ...
danieltillett 6y ago
Millions of people die from diseases like malaria and HIV every year. Wallowing around in self pity because of COVID-19 is not going to change a thing. Life has been getting better every year I have been alive. Billions of people have been moved out of extreme poverty and the average person lives a easier and safer life than almost anyone in history - I would rather be a poor man today than a king of the past.
- friendlybus 6y ago
  Ah I thought it was the Steven Pinker pattern. I don't see it as self-pity, or pity at all. The world is a dark place and our children are the bright lights of the future. It's the older generation that enjoyed the bright life and the millennial/z-gen is dealing with the world for what it is. This is the cold, severe reality of the day. I can't hand-wave away facts of my community for the tail end of the industrial revolution applied in Africa. I have my optimism that in the darkness life will be conserved and born anew. We don't need another aphorism extolling the virtues of how bright some corner of the planet is and how that is a worthy trade-off for personal or collective suffering. I'd prefer to live in the '90s when you could keep a secret and have a life that was not inside a panopticon. That was safety, not this metaphysical slavery to a set of advertising megacorps that pushes our behaviour around by statistical application of recommendations. I miss going on holiday and coming back with stories of the new world, rather than being able to bring up a 4k photo of every location within 250ms. I miss being able to fight people and gentlemen's agreements on the back of a handshake and a word. We have lost a lot, I pity those that forget so easily. Living in the 50s with a stable job that can support two adults and some kids with appliances that never die and vaguely drive-able cars seems a hell of a lot easier and safer than now. There are always brighter moments in the past, it's pointless to even make the rebuttal about living in the past, as if we could. Your work depends on pulling dark information on genomes into yet another database for a client. I doubt I'm going to sway you on the damage of recent progress. GATTACA is closer than I'd (we'd?) like and you probably won't be around to see it. The worst part is that it's likely to be secret, no blood tests at the gate required. Just sort a database row and you have your secret candidates for the next task. A two thousand year semi-respite from the naturally severe realities of life is ending and nobody seems to having anything to say about the shining beauty of a mankind that valued truth, a good handshake and gentlemanly behaviour. Is violence such a bad price to pay for freedom? I guess you can buy people off with iphones and widgets while they get slowly locked up by a system seeking absolute control over their lives. C'est la vie, long live man.
  - danieltillett 6y ago
    There was no golden age of the past and the future is what we make it. We can sit around thinking everything is going to shit, or we can get on with making things better. I prefer the later.
    - friendlybus 6y ago
      The future is predetermined and you aren't thinking.
      - danieltillett 6y ago
        Most likely yes, but you have to live your life as though it is not. I even wrote a post about this a few years ago [0]. 0. https://www.tillett.info/2018/12/21/the-last-word-on-free-will/ https://www.tillett.info/2018/12/21/the-last-word-on-free-wi...
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    Any prior golden age you might care to look at was unevenly distributed. That was the case before the internet took hold in the 90's, during the rapid economic growth of the 50's, in the Renaissance, the heights of the Roman Empire... Yes, that does not mean we shouldn't look back on the things in the past that were good & now are not. But if a wholesale reversion to a past time was possible, we would still find the golden parts of that earlier age to be apportioned to some, but not others. Another consideration is that while I don't like life inside a panopticon, its absence in the 90's meant those of us fortunate to be "golden" simply had less awareness of those who weren't, hence the false impression that perhaps there was a lot more gold everywhere.
    - friendlybus 6y ago
      I'm not selling a golden age of wealth for all. I'm selling the right to direct your own life, commit to the good on your own terms and live a life of privacy. You know, freedom. There's more to life than money, we used to kill for these outcomes. The violence stopped not because we improved but because there was no more freedom to be had. Now we just end lives over economic contrivances. I'm a dinosaur, I see the meteor hitting in 2140 and so does bitcoin and many others. The only answer is ghe unknown and darkness. I don't sell out for power.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Your comparison to other diseases might be apt if the current pandemic & resulting fallout were replacing one of those other problems. Instead, it is in addition to them. Comparing them as you have done is akin to looking at a horse loaded down with 400lbs of weight on it. Then another 100lbs of weight is added, and the horse whinnies in complaint. And you're saying "Why is the horse complaining? It already had 400 lbs of weight. 100 lbs is less than that, so it shouldn't be an issue."

ineedasername 6y ago

That is nice for you. I hope you never have to experience something so awful, which can effect someone without their control no matter how much their current circumstances might seem positive. On "easier & safer", I'm not sure the metric you'd use for safer. As for easier, millions of people have lost their jobs, millions more have their lives in upheaval as they are left to figure out difficult tradeoffs while watching their children descend into loneliness & poorer quality education through the massive disruptions in their lives. I am glad that you and, apparently, your social circles are going through a particularly good time at the moment. It's heartening to know that not everyone is losing out in the current circumstances.

danieltillett 6y ago
I have certainly experienced many awful things in life, but I have not become depressed. Maybe I am just resilient, but I don’t think I am that unusual. It is interesting that the response to my post has been to vote it down to oblivion. I posted hoping to see if the 2/3rd clinical depressed number is just a self selecting aberration, or HN really has become this bad.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  You may have a misconception of the causes of depression. I am sorry awful things have happened to you in life, but fortunately, as your example shows, negative external stimuli are not a 1:1 correlation with depression. Unfortunately, positive circumstances are also not a 1:1 correlation with the lack of depression. While stress, trauma, tragedy, loss, adversity may all push some people into depression, there are plenty more who, for no discernible external cause, find themselves in irrational states of despair or other forms of depression, and it is no more solvable through self-motivated resilience than the hallucinations of a more tangible mental illness like schizophrenia could be solved through resilience. Perhaps a useful way of thinking about it if you don't quite understand depression ( though maybe not neurologically accurate ) is to also think of depression as a form of involuntary hallucination. Only instead of an auditory or visual hallucination, the brain is producing an emotional hallucination. As for the downvotes, it's probably because the tone of your comment, perhaps unintentionally, comes off as skeptical & dismissive of the miserable reality that many people experience first hand. Finally, & unrelated, it looks like you do some very fascinating work!
  - danieltillett 6y ago
    I am sceptical that 2/3rds of all people are clinically depressed. This really does not seems close to reality. Thanks for the positive comments on my work. Yes I have been very lucky to have had the chance to work in some really interesting areas.
- damnencryption 6y ago
  A few members in my distant family died in the last few months. One of whom I was close with (grandparent) but it barely affected me negatively yet I had been forced into shell for months due to otherwise small things in the past. It's not the severity of the outcome. I recovered faster from those. I require medicine when that happens and the triggers are always small non obvious. Please don't judge people based on the severity of their situation as to whether they are suffering or not. It doesn't help. It misleds bystanders reading your comment into a pit instead of seeking help. As for the comparison to the world getting better, it's not linear and same for everyone. While on average, people are living better life than they did before. Life for people in some countries have gotten worse, not better. Maybe life for people which this forum self selects have gotten worse in the last few years. Also see: https://ourworldindata.org/optimism-pessimism https://ourworldindata.org/optimism-pessimism
  - danieltillett 6y ago
    I guess I am an optimist by nature and I certainly prefer to look at the positive rather than the negative. I am not sure it is helpful for most people to focus on the negatives in their lives rather than the positive. I have yet to see anyone’s life improved by brooding on what is wrong rather than what is right. I wasn’t actually judging anyone’s situation, just questioning how we have got to the situation where 2/3rd of the people answering the poll claim to be clinically depressed. If this is correct something is seriously wrong with HC.
    - damnencryption 6y ago
      Your post came off that way. And yes, it is not helpful to look negatively. I think people with depression understand this too. They can't help it. If they had more control over their thoughts and life, it wouldn't be a disease or require medical treatment. As per the link I posted in the comment, pessimism has been rising in developed and rich countries. So I wouldn't be surprised to find more pessimistic people on tech forums today. Tech filters out middle class people likely in developed countries or parts of the world. HN is dominated by Americans who have had a rough year. Protests, political unrest, they are currently leading in covid cases worldwide, etc. Other comments explain different reasons, I agree with them too so I won't repeat. One thing I noticed is the rate of not depressed at all votes. It gradually increased towards late night in US.

glangdale 6y ago

Am put in mind of this quote: "All of us have sufficient fortitude to bear the misfortunes of others". Francois de La Rochefoucauld I see you're On Fire further down in the thread, helpfully whatabouting malaria or something to explain away our current crisis. I don't think most people wake up and immediately start praising their lucky stars that they aren't living during the Black Death or in some war-torn country in Africa. Life still isn't that easy or safe for a lot of people all around the world, and perhaps those of us who aren't psychopathic jackasses can find that depressing even if personally they're doing pretty well.

danieltillett 6y ago
It is amazing you manage to read this all into my post. Of course life is hard for many people in the world, but things are getting better every year for the average person. This seems to not include the average HN poster who seems to be caught in a depressed funk.
- glangdale 6y ago
  It's almost as if people's emotional states come from things other than making entirely rational big picture judgements about the state of the "average person" on the whole planet. I'm curious if you have, at some point in your life, met another human being? All evidence would point to "yes", and yet here you are, all over this thread, debunking other peoples' subjective mental states with your superior facts and logic. As people do. It is tempting to picture you striding confidently through a mental health ward, heels clicking authoritatively. As you approach each patient, you lean down and gently impart a optimistic fact from Nature or The Economist ("did you know that rates of cholera have declined by 60% in 2018 alone"). In your wake, sparks of life return to the previously dead seeming eyes of troubled teenagers and despairing middle-aged men.
  - danieltillett 6y ago
    It is almost as though you can’t tell the difference between statements about population aggregates and statements about individuals.
    - glangdale 6y ago
      You offer up statements about population aggregates as a supposed explanation for the self-reported mental states of a collection of individuals, so you don't really get to reasonably complain about this.
      - danieltillett 6y ago
        Where have I offered any explanation for anything?

Viliam1234 6y ago
A similar problem is when one person says "I am unable to do X" and another person says "I find it extremely difficult to do X, but with lot of suffering I somehow manage to do it anyway", you never know whether the second person had more willpower or better strategy or maybe more supportive environment, or simply their symptoms were less strong. No matter how you decide to see it, it ends up blaming someone. If you decide the problem was the same, then you can blame the first person for not trying hard enough: "see, the second person had the same problem, but they didn't give up, they thought positively, tried harder and overcame the problem, why can't you do the same?" But if you decide that the problem was not the same, then you can blame the second person: "see, you were able to do it after all, which shows that you were only pretending to have the problem, unlike the people who actually suffer from it and cannot do anything about it!" Of course in real life many problems are on a scale; for different people doing X may be "easy", "difficult but possible", or "impossible". But many people want to round this to "yes" or "no". -- "Either you have depression or you don't. Either it is possible to do X when you are depressed, or it is not. If it is possible, then people who claim they are too depressed to do X are just lying. If it is not possible, then people who manage to do X with great effort were lying about being depressed." -- It works similarly for topics other than depression, too.
- cutemonster 6y ago
  What about this way of looking at the it's-possible scenario: That means there's a way for the cannot-do person to actually do it, s/he just needs to figure out how, maybe with help from others Good news? And there's no need to blame him/her -- not any more than someone who got a cold which can happen to everyone I wonder what caused you to thinking in terms of blame and lying (The other scenario -- when the can-do person in fact did sth else and says it's simple -- can be annoying indeed)

proverbialbunny 6y ago
>I'm not sure how to get the depression out of the muscle memory, but i do know we need to do a better job of getting people away from their trauma. I know how, but it's a deep topic that a single comment on an online forum can barely begin to do justice. First, I worry of a potential negative side effect of believing in muscle memory, regardless if it is or is not true. The concern is it could lead to the belief of static memory. Memory is impermanent and easy to change; you're not suck with it. So much so, there is a police interrogation technique that does just this to get innocent people thrown in prison. (I'm not kidding.) How it works is they show a bunch of faces, one with the person they want to be found guilty to the victim. The victim says no to all of them or, "I don't know.." and then later the police come in with a new lineup of photos. All of the photos are different expect the person they want to be found guilty. Usually a second time is enough. The victim will recognize the person shown twice and announce, "It's them. They did it!" If not, they'll keep doing this until that is the eventual consequence. It usually only takes a few times. One particular interesting study on stripping out memories (or muscle memory if you prefer) is how MDMA therapy works on PTSD. PTSD is a condition similar to anxiety, but different, in which they may have reoccurring nightmares of a horrific event, or if something reminds them of that event irl they may have a traumatic flashback. Clearly their old memories are causing them great distress. So how does this therapy work? Well, MDMA has a side effect of not being able to feel fight or flight on it, and it turns out our memory is read once, write many. This means the second we remember something, it gets erased from our long term memory. Our mind recalls the memory (processes it) and while processing it, it writes a new memory back to long term memory with its contents. On MDMA the fight or flight in the memories can not be processed, so what gets written back is a memory without the trauma attached to it. Read once, write many has numerous side effects. For example, the very act of recalling a memory over and over again changes it. You can do this experiment on yourself by writing down a story, then recalling it in your memory by saying it out loud like you're telling someone that story. Each time you say it the memory will be modified. Keep going and after around 10 times some details should be obviously wrong. You can then compare this version to the old one to see yourself. It's a solo version of telephone game. So you can alter your memories, you may be able to even find a way to strip the depression out when being hit over the face (Which you can.), but wait there's more. How one responds to the present moment is a habit. Every response you will ever give is a habit, even to a new and unexpected situation. It's pretty entertaining to observe the variation of habits people have between cultures. In the US if something unexpected happens like on a hidden game show Americans might be like, "Whaaaaatt??" or might punch someone who startles them, or just in general Americans are very reactive. In the UK when something unexpected happens on a hidden game show they tend to freeze. Sometimes they look around, but they usually pause and wait. It's quite a different response. Once we realize our responses to the present moment are habits, it's as simple (and as difficult) as changing those habits to new habits that are better suited. This can be as extreme as teaching someone with borderline personality disorder how to not freak out and start yelling when they fall in love with someone, to something more subtle like in your situation not responding with being depressed when life gives you a shitty day. To change ones habits, they have to be aware of the causality. That is they have to see the present moment before their response and then have a planned alternative response. You always have to have an alternative response, as purely cutting out a habit is difficult, but replacing a habit is much easier. Once the cause (the present moment event) is caught before the response happens, a new habit can be put in. It is nearly instantaneous and a massive amount of mindfulness is needed. One way to cultivate this level of mindfulness is by meditating, which has the side effect of increasing mindfulness. This teaching of how to change ones habits to not have negative responses is a key ingredient to removing dukkah or psychological stress, but it is commonly translated to the word suffering. This is a Buddhist teaching (not the religion) which modern day psychology has picked up on. Enlightenment in Buddhism is the end of dukkah, so the end of all negative psychological responses to things. As you can see I can and am giving you a deep dive into this technique anyone can do with a bit of practice showing it's quite real. Enlightenment does not have to be mysterious. It can be grounded in science.
- kordlessagain 6y ago
  I would note that not everyone has visual memories or ability to manifest imagery or sound, in mind. If you find yourself wondering what Bunny is talking about here, they are discussing what are called "aggregates". Aggregates are formations of thoughts, which typically manifest as visual elements, such as "seeing" things "in mind". Not necessarily "visualizing", but more like "visual historic recall" or "predictive recall of future events". Unfortunately (perhaps), I don't do this thing with images or sound. But I am aware others do. I do it with thoughts and feelings. Although imagery is typical, audio aggregates, feeling aggregates, smell aggregates and more are also possible. Thinking mind aggregates are the worst because they spawn other aggregates! :) Like other types of aggregates (gravel for example) there is usually a good mix of emotion, images, sounds and other sense bases manifesting, in mind. What Buddha taught was that, in order to "see" these things for what they are, one must sit and focus on "noting" the events/aggregates as they pass our awareness filters. This would give a sense of "causality" to the mediator. By noting these aggregates, over time and with attention, they (the aggregates) will eventually liberate themselves from the mind. Try sitting until you think of something and then ask yourself internally and very clearly and precisely "Who is it that cares about this?" This is a good technique for bringing thinking mind to a halt for a moment, at least in most. Anything we do that is repetitive in nature, which does not improve us, is a type of "ill being". Following a recommended path of "well being" will allow us to escape the day to day suffering (assault by aggregates) most experience.