11 ms·
It's worth noting that vitamin D has a lot of high-confidence but low-effect results going for it, including a lot of strong meta-analysis over many health outc
by ve55 6y ago
It's worth noting that vitamin D has a lot of high-confidence but low-effect results going for it, including a lot of strong meta-analysis over many health outcomes. What I mean by this is that it usually seems to conclusively either do something beneficial, but minor, almost nothing in the case of many studies, and in the case of some others, something very beneficial (as we've seen a few of in relation to covid recently).
Although Vitamin D isn't a particularly exciting supplement most of the time, that isn't enough of a reason for us to ignore it, as the proper way to make the decision of taking it or not would be to perform a cost/benefit analysis (as we should with any other supplements, lifestyle changes, etc).
The costs of vitamin D are just about as low as any supplement gets, and can be between $0.01 and $0.05 per day. The non-financial costs such as side effects or potential adverse effects are practically non-existent as well. So I do think that even those that have a healthy bit of skepticism over some results should still consider supplementation - there are a lot of potential benefits even if some are minor, and almost no risks or real costs. The optimal way to supplement is to get a blood test before+after starting supplementation in order to be confident you're taking the correct amount, but this isn't required of course. But I think the cost/benefit analysis is clearly in favor, so I didn't hesitate to add Vitamin D to my list of supplements that I take daily (https://nearcyan.com/supplements/ https://nearcyan.com/supplements/ if curious), along with many others at this point.
- ip26 6y agoalmost no risks or real costs I worry a little about risk compensation, or whatever the equivalent is for diet. That is to say, if I feel like I'm all set on vitamins & minerals via pills, maybe I don't need to try so hard to eat my fruits & vegetables anymore...
- ehsankia 6y agoWorth noting that the above mostly talks above Vitamin D specifically, not multivitamins. D is the only one you do not naturally get from food (ignoring fortified food), and it also as mentioned above one of the cheaper ones. Multivitamins are far more expensive in general.
- bawolff 6y agoMushrooms? Salmon? Liver? Eggs? All of these have vit D without being fortified (mushrooms being a bit debatable as to if its fortified) And its a little misleading not to talk about sunlight - technically that's not a food, but you were kind of implying you couldn't get it from the natural environment.
- 29athrowaway 6y agoVitamin D2 + D3 per 100g portion of mushrooms, according to this website from the USDA Agricultural Research Service (https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/ https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/) - Mushrooms, raw: 0.2 µg (7 IU) - Mushrooms, Chanterelle, raw: 5.3 µg (212 IU) - Mushrooms, enoki, raw: 0.7 µg (29 IU) - Mushrooms, maitake, raw: 28.1 µg (1123 IU) - Mushrooms, morel, raw: 5.1 µg (206 IU) - Mushrooms, oyster, raw: 0.7 µg (5 IU) - Mushrooms, portabella, raw: 0.3 µg (10 IU) - Mushrooms, shiitake, raw: 0.4 µg (18 IU) - Mushrooms, white, raw: 0.2 µg (7 IU) As you can see, there are many types of mushrooms and most of them do not have much vitamin D. Some do, but unless you are a mushroom nerd you are getting the wrong kind. Young adult daily recommended dose = 1000 IU
- ip26 6y agoJust came across this fascinating review: https://fungi.com/blogs/articles/place-mushrooms-in-sunlight-to-get-your-vitamin-d https://fungi.com/blogs/articles/place-mushrooms-in-sunlight...
- 29athrowaway 6y ago267,000 IU after exposing mushrooms to 14 hours of UVB? Holy cow.
- BurningFrog 6y agoSo, much like humans, mushrooms produce vitamin D from sunlight?
- bawolff 6y ago
- Scoundreller 6y agoWe could fortify beer and Coca Cola with it. While it’ll be on the label, I bet 9/10 people can’t rhyme off what is fortified. (Around here, it’s salt, milk, flour and cereals that get fortified). Dunno where fluoride fits, but that too.
- bgilroy26 6y agoYou belong to an interesting language isolate with whoever wrote this article: SUNNY VALLI CRAG http://3.251.20.7/log-details/?log_id=490&y=2009 http://3.251.20.7/log-details/?log_id=490&y=2009 I was puzzled by your phrase "can't rhyme off". Google returns very few instances that are not related to spontaneous spoken word poetry (which is likely an example of convergent evolution). After poking around a bit, it seemed as though I had heard a similar phrase before "try (to|and) rhyme off" in which 'rhyme' is synonymous with 'to list' as well Best wishes for yourself, your friends and your family during these uncertain times!
- keeganpoppen 6y agowhat a fun phrase. wiktionary says canada: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rhyme_off https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rhyme_off
- bgilroy26 6y agoThat reminds me of a fun Canadian song that got passed around in the early Kazaa days (I had thought it was a Corky and the Juice Pigs song, but it is hard to attribute based on Google): T'was the Scots that built this Country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QakAwOhBkbA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QakAwOhBkbA
- dashundchen 6y agoI'll add that even many non-dairy milks are fortified with Vitamin D - check the label.
- elric 6y ago
- BurningFrog 6y ago"Risk compensation", to use your term, is a perfectly rational way to deal with these issues!
- bsder 6y ago> and almost no risks This isn't true--especially for Vitamin D. We have several doctors at this point who deal with cases where too much Vitamin D causes Calcium uptake issues and affects cognition and heart function. Vitamin D is NOT something like Vitamin C. Your body easily dumps excessive Vitamin C so you can take fairly massive doses with no real ill effects. Your body has a much tougher time excreting Vitamin D--so large doses of Vitamin D can cause issues and accumulate.
- ve55 6y agoYes, this is true and worth mentioning in some cases, as some commenters have noted. Although as far as my knowledge goes, almost all cases of issues are where the patient is taking either an absurd amount (>10x what they should be), or has some other very unusual/absurd health issue. We can only provide disclaimers for so much, but for the sake of completeness, this is worth mentioning and indeed correct.
- Ragib_Zaman 6y agoToo much Vitamin D without sufficient Vitamin K can lead to high levels of serum calcium that are not absorbed into the bones. One function of Vitamin K is to shuttle calcium into the bones. You can often purchase combined Vitamin D and Vitamin K supplements to avoid those issues.
- paulsmal 6y agoIt’s not vitamin D that needs to be excreting but calcium. That’s why some supplements include vitamin K2, allegedly to absorb calcium into bones.
- throwaway5752 6y agoIt is fat soluble. You can develop toxicity, and the effects are not trivial: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/vitamin-d-toxicity/faq-20058108 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... It seems based on casual reading of research that more people are deficient than not and dosing to toxic levels is unlikely. But it's not a bad idea to do this under the care of a doctor.
- monetus 6y agoFor reference: The level of toxicity listed in your link is 60,000IU per day. Fauci said he takes 10,000IU per day. The bottle I purchased recommends 2,000IU per day. Get your blood work done people.
- eloff 6y agoThere's an expert that specializes in vitamin D toxicity cases and regularly posts here. She sees cases at less than the 10000IU daily dose Fauci takes. I would be hesitant to go above 4000IU daily without monitoring blood levels every six months or so. Its winter here in Canada, I'm taking 3000IU per day. I drop that to 1000IU in the summer. I'm not a doctor, not recommending you do the same. Just sharing.
- nerbert 6y agoObvious warning but there's a lot of name dropping and I'm not sure what leads people to think Fauci 1) takes 10kUI or 6kUI per day 2) that it's the right dose for them 3) that they can make conclusions on what to do with their health based on a forum. Get your blood checked, get recommendation from a doctor... before supercharging your blood with calcium & other fun stuff...
- monetus 6y agoThe 10,000 number is hearsay I overheard as a family member listened to this english nurse who professed to taking 5,000 himself. - https://youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching https://youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching I imagine someone reading this may not have healthcare coverage, but bloodwork can be cheap! Save up! Please be cautious
- inquirerofsorts 6y ago> exciting supplement I've never taken one in my life and have excellent vitamin D levels. Most people call it going outside you desk jockey nerds.
- marton78 6y agoNot everybody lives at the latitude their skin has evolved for.
- batushka3 6y agoI've looked up your list and remembered great movie Vitamania. Most striking part was that to people living in space, no suplements are provided except vitamin D. Every other is gained from various food they eat. And the supplement industry is barely regulated and HUUUGE in US.
- cassepipe 6y ago"The non-financial costs such as side effects or potential adverse effects are practically non-existent as well." This not accurate. I remember that there was an article on the front page of Hacker News an article that explain that Vitamin D is actually a hormone and telling the story of woman that had been prescribed high level of supplementation that could not talk anymore. It had something to do with her calcium intake regulated by that hormone. Luckily she was so distressed she stopped taking the supplementation but still it took her six months to get back to to talking normally and a normal hormone concentration level. EDIT : I found the article : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24261948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24261948
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y agoI assume they were talking about supplementation at normal supplementation levels, not 10x - 100x that. As someone pointed out below, if you drink 10x-100x the recommended amount of water, you're likely to have adverse effects (almost certainly including death at 100x) too.
- abainbridge 6y agoThis case, I think: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3313753/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3313753/ It looks like she was getting 600,000 IU injections every week for three months. That's 85,714 IU per day. The NHS recommends maintenance does of 400 IU per day, others recommend up to 2000 IU.
- wavegeek 6y agoAs with this study the dose used is often quite low, driven by paranoia about overdoses. Other studies have been very short term, had small numbers of subjects and thus would only find very large effects, or used large irregular "bolus" doses which are very bad and no longer used. I went through one meta-analysis and found only 3 of about 35 studies that were actually useful. So take a close look at the methods section of the paper. You don't just read the abstract, do you? Do you? Why 600 IU / day is not enough: 1. Meta-analysis that concluded this was faulty due to back statistical analysis and understated need by a large factor Nutrients 2014, 6, 4472-4475; doi:10.3390/nu6104472 "A Statistical Error in the Estimation of the Recommended Dietary Allowance for Vitamin D" by Paul J. Veugelers and John Paul Ekwaru 2. Lactating women who get only the RDA have vitamin D deficient milk. This makes no sense if the RDA is valid 3. When people go out in the sun their bodies produce up to 10,000 IU per day but not more. Why produce all that Vit D if it is not useful? Sorry I am away from my paper trove so I do not have the cites for 2 and 3.