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I guess the cooling let’s them tweak the CPU clocks accordingly? Wonder if we can hack the Mac mini with water blocks and squeeze higher clocks. The memory limi
by ameen 6y ago
I guess the cooling let’s them tweak the CPU clocks accordingly? Wonder if we can hack the Mac mini with water blocks and squeeze higher clocks. The memory limitation makes it a dud though.
- 293984j29384 6y ago8GB and 16GB configurations seem more than enough..
- bobbylarrybobby 6y agoFor pro users, the fact that 32GB isn’t even an option is pretty surprising
- saagarjha 6y agoI don't think today's computers were aimed at those kinds of usecases.
- runawaybottle 6y agoBut 16gb is what I had in a computer 10 years ago. I was just window shopping a new gaming rig, and 32gb is affordable (100 bucks), 64gb (200 bucks). Cheap as shit, what’s the hold up?
- saagarjha 6y agoA new processor architecture. Wait a couple months and you'll probably have the computer you wanted released too.
- sroussey 6y agoThe memory is on package, not way out somewhere on the logic board. This will increase speed quite a bit, but limit physical size of memory modules, and thus amount. I think they worked themselves into a corner here until the 16” which has a discreet GPU and reconfiguration of the package.
- egsmi 6y agoA little bit up is was shown the memory in M1 is 5.5GHz DDR5. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25050625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25050625 Can you please provide the link to 64GB DDR5-5500 for $200? I'd love to buy some too!
- runawaybottle 6y agohttps://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=64gb+ram https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=64gb+ram I guess DDR 500 runs you 350. It looks like Apple charges you 600 for ddr 400 32gb. I don’t know, what am I missing here?
- egsmi 6y agoI’m confused. The link is for DDR4, it’s all too slow, and Apple doesn’t offer a 32MB M1 option at this time.
- spacedcowboy 6y agoCan you actually link to a product, not a search ? Because none of the items coming up there are DDR5-5500, they're all DDR4-3600 or worse, as far as I can see.
- runawaybottle 6y agoI guess I was wrong, everything is ddr4.
- fomine3 6y agoIt's fair but if they choose fast but expensive and unexpandable technology, possibly the choice is failed in some perspective. I think most people who buy mini prefer RAM capacity than faster iGPU.
- nostromo 6y agoApple has a "missing middle" problem. They have a ton of fantastic consumer-level computing devices, and one ridiculously-priced mega-computer. But there are many of us that want something in the upper-middle: a fast computer that is upgradable, but maybe $2k and not $6k (and up). (The iMac Pro is a dud. People that want a powerful desktop generally don't want a non-upgradable all-in-one.)
- saagarjha 6y agoApple doesn't care about your upgradability concerns on the notebook lineup. Once you get past that, it has traditionally done fairly well at covering a wide spectrum of users from the fanless MacBook to the high-powered MacBook Pros.
- derefr 6y agoApple's solution for upgradability for their corporate customers, is their leasing program. Rather than swapping parts in the Mac, you swap the Mac itself for a more-powerful model when needed — without having to buy/sell anything.
- LoSboccacc 6y agoApple has missing middle _strategy_
- athms 6y agoI have a late-2013 13" MBP with 16GB of memory. Seven years later I would expect a 13" MBP to support at least 32GB. I can get 13" Windows laptops that support 32GB of memory. The Mini is a regression, from 64GB to 16GB of memory. The only computer worth a damn is the new MBA.
- saagarjha 6y agoWait just a bit and I'm sure your concerns in this area will entirely disappear.
- athms 6y agoThey already disappeared, I switched to Windows in 2019. I use MacStadium for compiling and testing iOS apps. I was wondering if the ARM machines would be worth a look, but they are disappointing. If I was still using Macs as my daily driver, I would buy the new MBA for a personal machine.
- whywhywhywhy 6y agoPretty sure my 2014 ish 13inch MBP with 16gb and 512 storage cost me around £1200, today speccing an M1 13inch MBP to the same 6 year old specs would cost almost £2000. Seems absurd.
- threeseed 6y agoMy guess is that the next wave will be Pro. And they will have significantly upgraded CPU/GPUs to match the memory.
- dylan604 6y agoBut it's right there in the name: 13" MacBook Pro
- stevenisageek 6y agoThe 13" 'pro' has never really been a 'real' pro. They were/are always spec'd with less cores than the 15"/16" and never had dedicated graphics.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- threeseed 6y agoEntry level 13" MacBook Pro is for prosumers. Think web developers, photographers, bloggers etc.
- pvg 6y agoWeb developers and photographers are the opposite of 'prosumers', kind of by definition. Plus, think of the size of a full res photo coming out of a high-end phone, never mind a DSLR.
- dylan604 6y agoYou must not rate photographers very highly if you are mentioning them in the same sentence as "bloggers, etc".
- fxtentacle 6y agoMost of the professional photographers that I work with have PC workstations with 64gb to 256gb of RAM. Retouching a 48MP HDR file in Photoshop needs roughly 800MB of RAM per layer and per undo step.
- dep_b 6y agoThe DRAM seems to be integrated on the same package as the SoC.
- jll29 6y agoI should wait for a 64 GB option. I've already got 16 GB on all my older laptops, so when buying a new gadget RAM and SSD should have better specs (you feel more RAM more than more cores in many usage scenarios). It was surprising to see essentially the same form factor, the same operating system and not much to distinguish the three machines presented (lots of repetition like "faster compiles with XCode"). BTW, what's the size and weight of the new Air compared to the MacBook (which I liked, but which was killed before I could get one)? Seeing two machines that are nearly identical reminds me of countries with two mainstream political parties - neither discriminates clearly what their USP is...
- _ph_ 6y agoI had a quad-core Mini with 16GB in 2011. Almost 10 years later we should be much further, especially as the Intel Mini allows up to 64GB. (Which you probably would use only if you upgraded the memory yourself).
- tiernano 6y agoAlso, lack of 10gbe is a big let down...
- seltzered_ 6y agoYou have to factor in possible memory management improvements with the M1 chip, and ability to run iOS apps instead: https://twitter.com/jckarter/status/1326240072522293248 https://twitter.com/jckarter/status/1326240072522293248
- _ph_ 6y agoThat is fine with the Air. But for a small desktop computer not to support more than 16GB in 2021? Its predecessor allowed up to 64GB (and possibly more with suitable modules).
- derefr 6y agoWe're not any further in terms of capacity per dollar, but we are advancing in terms of speed. The M1's memory is LPDDR4X-4266 or LPDDR5-5500 (depending on the model, I guess?) which is about double the frequency of the memory in the Intel Macs. Apparently, this alone seems to account for a lot of the M1's perf wins — see e.g. the explanation under "Geekbench, Single-Core" here: https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-apple_m1-1804 https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu-apple_m1-1804 Bleeding-edge-clocked DRAM is a lot more costly per GB to produce than middle-of-the-pack-fast DRAM. (Which is weird, given that process shrinks should make things cheaper; but there's a DRAM cartel, so maybe they've been lazy about process shrinks.)
- zeristor 6y agoNo virtualisation -> I’m guessing no Docker. Am I missing something? Mind you with 16Gb, Docker won’t be that useful.
- asniper 6y agoDon’t touch Xcode then, it welcomes you to paging hell.
- BossingAround 6y agoWith that fast SSD, do you notice paging in Xcode? Would it be worth the extra $300 or however much Apple asks for extra 8GB of ram in the US store?
- mgkimsal 6y agoyes, you notice paging, even with 'fast' SSD. or perhaps it's not 'paging', and just dumb luck I hit and see beachballs on multiple new higher-end macbook pros regularly.
- cesaref 6y agoIt's not normally paging, but thermal throttling which involves the machine appearing to 'spin' but it's actually just the kernel keeping the cycles to itself, which typically give you beachballs as a side-effect. And one tip is to use the right hand side USBC ports for charging, not the left hand ones as for some reason or other they tend to cause the machine to heat up more...
- mgkimsal 6y agothe right hand ones are the only ones that can drive external monitors (on mine anyway). I feel like I'm the only one that has this - I had a MBP 2019 - first batch - and I thought I'd read that one side was different than the other re: power. Power works on both sides, but monitors won't run from the left usb-c ports. but it's not documented anywhere. :/ thx for tip.
- w0mbat 6y agoI just tried plugging my monitor into a right hand socket on my 2019 MBP, and it worked fine for me. On my machine it is true that charging on the right is better. Charging on the left spins up the fan.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago16gb can be limiting for some work flows today, and doesn't give you much future proofing (this RAM is permanent, right?)
- judge2020 6y agoYes, it's in the SoC (or SiP now).
- ghettoimp 6y agoHow do they get the ram into the SoC? Is it like a massive die?
- judge2020 6y agoLooks like it: https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip__fffqz3ljssi2_large.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip__fffqz... https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip_memory__dnhm4hh2i7ma_large.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/mac/m1/a/images/overview/chip_memory... https://www.apple.com/mac/m1/ https://www.apple.com/mac/m1/
- lastofthemojito 6y agoI went to Apple's website right after I finished watching the keynote with the intention of buying a new Mac mini ... the lack of memory options above 16GB stopped that idea dead in its tracks though.
- fjdjsmsm 6y agoI think it is notable the new mini’s colour is light silver, rather than the previous dark ‘pro’ silver. Presumably there will be another model a year from now.
- geerlingguy 6y agoAlso no 10G networking option. The combination of those feature exclusions makes it a dud for me; I don't want to have a $150 TB3 adapter hanging off the back, not when previous gen had it built in.
- dangus 6y agoI bet “pros” never bought it and it’s only been viable as a basic desktop. Probably nobody ordered the 10 gigabit upgrade. I bet they’re only upgrading it because it was essentially free. They already developed it for the developer transition kit. I commend the idea of a small enthusiast mini desktop like a NUC but I don’t think the market is really there, or if they are, they’re not interested in a Mac.
- jonplackett 6y agoThey've also halved the 2 base SSDs to 256/512 I thought with the last update they'd finally seen the light and moved to 512/1tb, now we're back with the silly 256gb. If you factor in having to upgrade ram to 16gb and ssd to 512 it's only £100 shy of the old price. Good, but not as good as it looked to begin with.
- gre 6y agoYou can get an external M2 USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbps) enclosure plus 1TB M2 SSD for $130 and a 2TB for $320. That makes the 16GB Mac Mini 256GB a decent buy at $970 imo. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MNFH1PX https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MNFH1PX
- jonplackett 6y agoFor the mini sure, but it's a massive pain having an external drive for a laptop. I use one all the time and as well as being waaaaay slower even with a good drive, I lose it all the time.
- gre 6y agoThat's why I'm waiting to upgrade my laptop.
- jonplackett 6y agoI've still got my 2013 MacBook Pro. Still chugging along. I'm hoping it can wait for v2 of the MacBook Pro 16" Apple's second version of everything is always worth the wait.
- whywhywhywhy 6y agoYeah it's not feasible at all to use external storage on a two port laptop. Dongles that allow you to plug in power and monitor are still just not reliable enough for storage, the only reliable connection I can get on my 2 port MBP is with a dedicated Apple USB-C to A adapter. Shocked they're still selling the two port machine, it's been nothing but hassle for me as someone who has to use one.
- varispeed 6y agoWouldn't be surprised if the cooling solution was serialised and it had a detection whether the cooling is originally programmed for the particular unit like they do now with cameras and other peripherals (check iPhone 12 teardown videos). I bet that the logic would check the expected temperature for given binning and then shut down the system if it is too cool or too hot. Apple knows better than the users what hardware should work with the unit.
- ljm 6y agoSo, essentially their new Macbook line is a glorified iPhone/iPad but with a foldable display (on a hinge)? Not too far-fetched when you see the direction MacOS is headed, UI-wise. And it sounds nice, but if it means that repairability suffers then we'll just end up with a whole wave of disposable laptops.
- duhi88 6y agoTo me it looks more like they swapped the motherboard out with their own, keeping the rest of the hardware the same. With RAM and SSD already soldered to the motherboard, repairability can't really get much worse than it already is.
- varispeed 6y agoIt's not difficult to replace RAM or SSD with the right tools (which may be within reach of an enthusiast), problem is that you often cannot buy spare chips as manufacturers can only sell them to Apple or that they are serialised - programmed to work only with that particular chip and then the unit has to be reprogrammed after the replacement by the manufacturer. I think they started doing it after rework tools became affordable for broader audience. You can get a trinocular microscope, rework station and an oven for under a $1000 these days.
- nicoburns 6y agoYou can get a screwdriver (allowing you to replace RAM and SSDs in most laptops, including older macs) for $5. There's really no excuse for them to do this all the while claiming to be environmentally friendly.
- officeplant 6y agoYou won't be able to go beyond the built in P-states which in the end is a power limit not a thermal one.