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I'm not complaining about them charging too much for not enough, I'm complaining about their products being bad. That's quite a distinction. Apple Music isn't a

I'm not complaining about them charging too much for not enough, I'm complaining about their products being bad. That's quite a distinction. Apple Music isn't as good as Spotify, Apple TV+ isn't as good as (Amazon Prime Video|Disney+|Netflix), Apple's bundle isn't as good as Amazon Prime. Siri isn't as good as Alexa or Google Assistant. Apple Arcade can't compete with.. well... the Appstore. Apple is having success at pushing people who already have iPhones to buy services in the same way that Microsoft as realy good at getting people to use Internet Explorer. But Apple's success at pushing people into services revenue isn't a long term indication of strength.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago
All of these are subjective statements. I much prefer Apple Music to Spotify, and I don't think people really care that much about Google Assistant - iPhones still sell well at much higher prices than android phones.
- HighlandSpring 6y ago
  It's not about what you prefer, it's about whether they can hold onto their market share in solving these problems.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    Certainly, but it looks like Apple has done well enough in that segment, ~20% marketshare. Spotify will always dominate marketshare - it has a free tier.
    - ksec 6y ago
      >Spotify will always dominate marketshare - it has a free tier. It has nothing to do with free tier. Spotify is dominating even if you only count paying subscribers.
      - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
        And still they just funnel all their profits to the record labels :(
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        They funnel their revenue to the record labels, not profits. Evidently, Spotify’s product doesn’t command a premium in the market compared to the alternatives.
        52-6F-62 6y ago
        Record labels aren’t a single-faceted evil, in spite of however strongly that notion may be engrained in the Napster generation. If anything, there are more even-handed relationships between wrist and label than there ever was.
      - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
        Spotify has ~32% marketshare, Apple 18% - and considering Spotify pre-dated Apple Music significantly, it isn't that impressive. https://www.midiaresearch.com/blog/music-subscriber-market-shares-q1-2020#:~:text=Despite%20Apple%20Music's%20strong%20showing,both%20absolute%20and%20relative%20terms https://www.midiaresearch.com/blog/music-subscriber-market-s....
        hajile 6y ago
        Looking at it another way, Apple has complete platform control and still can't get people to sign up. In contrast, people go out of their way to find and download Spotify. Somewhat off topic, but who's idea was it to kill their iconic iTunes branding for the generic "Apple Music"?
        ntsplnkv2 6y ago
        They clearly have gotten people to sign up, they are 2nd in the market and only 12% behind Spotify. That's against an incumbent with a free tier that Apple doesn't have. I also wonder too what Apple's marketshare is on iPhones - I'm sure it is a higher percent.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    Well, the predictions that "they can't hold onto their market share, surely not at this prices, etc" have been going on for 20 years now...
izacus 6y ago
But their products being bad doesn't matter - they'll make sure to cripple all the competition so the only usable service products are Apple products. They've already started embedding agressive marketing pitches into their OSes so the competition will always be a step behind. That's enough - their products don't really have to be the best. They'll win by competition not being able to surpass them due to restrictions.
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  > they'll make sure to cripple all the competition so the only usable service products are Apple products You mean they will risk killing their core products so they get to anti-competitive benefits on other markets? I believe you are correct, but that's risky on more than one way and isn't good for their long term bottom line.
  - izacus 6y ago
    My first hand experience shows that corporations aren't always rational. Especially if they're big - it's really easy to get a discrepancy between what smaller unit/team managers want (push their own team product) vs. what's benefical for the whole corporation in the long run. This is how you get a lot of seemingly dumb corporate decisions.
    - cutemonster 6y ago
      > what smaller unit/team managers want (push their own team product) You mean they might do that although the team's product isn't any good? Good for the team, career wise, but not the company?
      - izacus 6y ago
        Yes, it's very common to get inertia where the teams scramble to justify spent time and managers refuse to admit that the product isn't good. It's amazing what you can prove by choosing the corect set of metrics.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago

All of these are subjective statements. I much prefer Apple Music to Spotify, and I don't think people really care that much about Google Assistant - iPhones still sell well at much higher prices than android phones.

HighlandSpring 6y ago
It's not about what you prefer, it's about whether they can hold onto their market share in solving these problems.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  Certainly, but it looks like Apple has done well enough in that segment, ~20% marketshare. Spotify will always dominate marketshare - it has a free tier.
  - ksec 6y ago
    >Spotify will always dominate marketshare - it has a free tier. It has nothing to do with free tier. Spotify is dominating even if you only count paying subscribers.
    - disgruntledphd2 6y ago
      And still they just funnel all their profits to the record labels :(
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        They funnel their revenue to the record labels, not profits. Evidently, Spotify’s product doesn’t command a premium in the market compared to the alternatives.
      - 52-6F-62 6y ago
        Record labels aren’t a single-faceted evil, in spite of however strongly that notion may be engrained in the Napster generation. If anything, there are more even-handed relationships between wrist and label than there ever was.
    - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
      Spotify has ~32% marketshare, Apple 18% - and considering Spotify pre-dated Apple Music significantly, it isn't that impressive. https://www.midiaresearch.com/blog/music-subscriber-market-shares-q1-2020#:~:text=Despite%20Apple%20Music's%20strong%20showing,both%20absolute%20and%20relative%20terms https://www.midiaresearch.com/blog/music-subscriber-market-s....
      - hajile 6y ago
        Looking at it another way, Apple has complete platform control and still can't get people to sign up. In contrast, people go out of their way to find and download Spotify. Somewhat off topic, but who's idea was it to kill their iconic iTunes branding for the generic "Apple Music"?
        ntsplnkv2 6y ago
        They clearly have gotten people to sign up, they are 2nd in the market and only 12% behind Spotify. That's against an incumbent with a free tier that Apple doesn't have. I also wonder too what Apple's marketshare is on iPhones - I'm sure it is a higher percent.
- coldtea 6y ago
  Well, the predictions that "they can't hold onto their market share, surely not at this prices, etc" have been going on for 20 years now...

izacus 6y ago

But their products being bad doesn't matter - they'll make sure to cripple all the competition so the only usable service products are Apple products. They've already started embedding agressive marketing pitches into their OSes so the competition will always be a step behind. That's enough - their products don't really have to be the best. They'll win by competition not being able to surpass them due to restrictions.

marcosdumay 6y ago
> they'll make sure to cripple all the competition so the only usable service products are Apple products You mean they will risk killing their core products so they get to anti-competitive benefits on other markets? I believe you are correct, but that's risky on more than one way and isn't good for their long term bottom line.
- izacus 6y ago
  My first hand experience shows that corporations aren't always rational. Especially if they're big - it's really easy to get a discrepancy between what smaller unit/team managers want (push their own team product) vs. what's benefical for the whole corporation in the long run. This is how you get a lot of seemingly dumb corporate decisions.
  - cutemonster 6y ago
    > what smaller unit/team managers want (push their own team product) You mean they might do that although the team's product isn't any good? Good for the team, career wise, but not the company?
    - izacus 6y ago
      Yes, it's very common to get inertia where the teams scramble to justify spent time and managers refuse to admit that the product isn't good. It's amazing what you can prove by choosing the corect set of metrics.