7 ms·

If the police would ransack my family home after a fire you could probably write the same article. Charred RPi's and lots of computer parts, enough wiring for a

by wjnc 6y ago

If the police would ransack my family home after a fire you could probably write the same article. Charred RPi's and lots of computer parts, enough wiring for a new house, lots of chemicals (cleaners, fertilizers, other chemical agents with regular gardening use cases), ultimate survival guide and related parts ("This guy was prepping for something!"). The naming of suspects is just adding insult to injury. If he's in good faith... Anyone could lose it after a house fire plus being named a 'unabomber' by your neighbours.

tastroder 6y ago
Ah well, just saw the house fire tweet and sent him a few bucks. Guess I'm on one more list now. There seem to be a few articles that are at least not half filled with the ramblings of an elderly neighbour: https://www.qgazette.com/articles/more-charges-possible-for-astoria-bomb-suspect/ https://www.qgazette.com/articles/more-charges-possible-for-... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8737513/NYPD-discover-bomb-making-materials-inside-NYC-home.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8737513/NYPD-discov... https://abc7ny.com/suspicious-package-queens-astoria-fire/6425363/ https://abc7ny.com/suspicious-package-queens-astoria-fire/64... Emotional distress seems pretty normal after your house burns down and there's plenty of people in our community with hobbies that would be considered odd. Naming suspects in these cases seems so weird from a non-US perspective, there's not even been a court case.
- ratww 6y ago
  This is terrible. All the news are based on speculation, but they plastered his very-Googlable-name everywhere, only making it harder for him to get a job now. I honestly can't see anything positive about those articles existing before there's a proper court case.
  - schmappel 6y ago
    I never understood the need to name suspects - address and all - in this country. In my home country suspects that are (or are about to be) charged and convicted with a crime have their last name abbreviated (e.g. Paul S.), which seems completely reasonable to me. You're innocent until proven guilty, for one. But even if you're guilty and convicted, your punishment should be limited to whatever the judge rules it should be. I don't see the need for public shaming beyond whatever punishment they get in court should they be convicted. When someone is released after a prison sentence they have a right to resume their life. They did their time, after all. Sorry if I sound like I'm rambling a bit, English is not my native language.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      It's about retribution and the idea that lawyers can influence the justice system and let "bad guys" go free. A lot of the states with lax laws around naming people accused of crimes are the same ones still dishing out the death penalty.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  >Naming suspects in these cases seems so weird from a non-US perspective, there's not even been a court case. As I understand it, the original reason for this is to prevent the police from simply making people disappear. It's a public check on what the police and government do to people.
  - darkwater 6y ago
    Even in that case is the WRONG solution to a problem.
    - marcinzm 6y ago
      Then what is the better solution? Saying it's wrong without giving alternatives isn't a very useful comment imho. edit: And the solution needs to apply to the US, with all it's brokenness, not some other country with different social structures.
      - chris_wot 6y ago
        The media doesn’t do this is the U.K. or Australia. We have much stronger libel laws. Nobody has been “disappeared” by the police, either.
        joh6nn 6y ago
        serious question: how would you know?
        rodgerd 6y ago
        > Nobody has been “disappeared” by the police, either. Your faith in the British police would be charming if it wasn't the thing that lead to things like the Guildford 4.
      - darkwater 6y ago
        > Then what is the better solution? That police should not make people disappear from their families without proper noticing, it would be a starter. I'm not from the USA but I think I can already guess who usually suddenly go missing because the police got them.
- baobabKoodaa 6y ago
  I agree it's terrible that the papers named him so early, and I do think we should give him the benefit of the doubt, but given the information out there right now, there is a reasonable chance he actually was making a bomb. It seems to me like people are willing to jump to the opposite conclusion simply because he's "one of us". Let the investigation play its course.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    ... what? You realize the concept of innocent until proven guilty is not a unique concept to HN readers right? That presumption of innocence is not "act like maybe he was making bombs until proven guilty"? It sounds like you've let the media erode your understanding of a very basic human right, but do not try and cast it on others as some sort of tribalism. He is innocent until proven guilty. Not "reasonable chance" according to your random opinion, but a judge and jury and various council go through a legal case and legally find him guilty.
    - unreal37 6y ago
      Obligatory Reddit-type response: "Sir, this is a Wendy's drive-thru. Not a court of law." HN response: Of course, everyone is free to say what they wish. First amendment. Freedom of speech. Freedom of thought. Freedom is the basic human right. Wikipedia says, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 11, states: "Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defense." Notice that this covers the rights of someone "who has been charged with an offence" in "a public trial". There's not actually a "human right" preventing people from having or expressing opinions. Does that make sense?
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        Precious little about your comment makes sense from that first sentence to the rest of it. > Of course, everyone is free to say what they wish. First amendment. Freedom of speech. Freedom of thought. Freedom is the basic human right. I'm not even going to bother falling into the tangential tarpit of acting like someone is a bomb maker without them having gone to trial is a "1st amendment right". After all, if your best defense of a statement is "I'm legally allowed to say it", it's probably not worth much consideration. > Notice that this covers the rights of someone "who has been charged with an offence" in "a public trial". No it doesn't. It covers the rights of a person. Period. That's literally the point of a universal declaration of human rights You're trying to play word sashimi to make a point that isn't made. The definition of guilt is specific to a public trial exactly because a "trial" of public opinions is so easy to manipulate. Sure it can't force the general public to be decent people and understand that people should be presumed innocent until proven guilty... but it's also not endorsing the public not do so. It's not limiting presumption of innocence to trials.
elcritch 6y ago
Yikes, what you describe could easily be a decent portion of HN people’s homes. Don’t forget the anti-social, unpopular with the neighbors bit either. And of course the NYPost appears to thrive on drumming up scandal.
- White_Wolf 6y ago
  I second that. The ammount of microcontrollers, arduino/RPI boards, gsm modules, 400 Mhz radio transcievers and such would most likely "make me available" for "interviews". Just a few years back when moved to a diff city for the job we had a visit to check if "we're ok" because our electricity bill was way above the average for the area. The silver lining: My wife was ok with me upgrading everything in the rack with new, low(er) power equipment.
- DubiousPusher 6y ago
  Also, never forget how these intitial police investigations are wrong all the time. How do they know this is potassium nitrate? Was it labeled? Does it look like it? Smell like it? Taste like it?
IshKebab 6y ago
Do you have any ammonium nitrate though? I mean, chances are he was just some pyro and not actually interested in bombing/killing people. But it's dumb to do that in a flat.
- tastroder 6y ago
  > But it's dumb to do that in a flat. One of the other articles refers to some sort of fireproof container outside of the house.
  - nmeofthestate 6y ago
    >Cops said FDNY fire marshals are combing through Squire’s charred, first-floor apartment to determine the cause of the blaze, an FDNY spokesperson said. The fact that his apartment is 'charred' suggests he was doing stuff in it. Could be he took the materials with him as he was trying to escape out the back window, or that's just where he was storing them so they wouldn't be found if a search was conducted. I think it's useful that this was reported on, because it could make people more wary of shelling out money to a guy who was recklessly endangering others even if there were no nefarious motives.
    - nrmitchi 6y ago
      > The fact that his apartment is 'charred' suggests he was doing stuff in it. Or, it suggests that there was a fire, which is not really up for debate. > Could be he took the materials with him as he was trying to escape out the back window You are making up a hypothesis to make someone sound guilty with no evidence. > I think it's useful that this was reported on, because it could make people more wary of shelling out money to a guy who was recklessly endangering others even if there were no nefarious motives. This is a poor opinion. First, he has not been found guilty of "reckless endangement", and you are just assuming he's guilty. Do you also expect to see reporting every time someone recklessly endangers others by driving at high speeds through a school zone, or accidently runs through a stop sign? Publishing accusations of someone (especially a very easily google-able person) being a terrorist is not something that should be done lightly without proof. Hell, right now I'm pretty sure I have both bleach and ammonia in my apartment as regular cleaning supplies. When combined, these ingredients are dangerous, but that sure as shit doesn't mean I'm endangering others just by possessing them.
woah 6y ago
40 pounds of potassium nitrate?
- anon73044 6y ago
  Pretty common size from the big box and home & garden type stores. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sta-Green-43-lb-15-000-sq-ft-32-0-10-Winterizer/1000140089 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sta-Green-43-lb-15-000-sq-ft-32-0-1... I'd be suspicions if he had 10-20 bags and didn't run a landscaping company or multiple acres or grass to maintain.
  - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
    For an apartment in NYC??
    - runawaybottle 6y ago
      My drugs and alcohol spidey senses are tingling. I’d be so pissed if my next door neighbor in my apartment building was doing that.
    - anon73044 6y ago
      Looked more like a row house than an apartment.
- DubiousPusher 6y ago
  There is no reason to implicitly trust what a police officer tells a reporter or says at a press conference during the initial investigation of a crime.
ineedasername 6y ago
I think it's reasonable for police & even FBI to investigate after a fire in a home with lots of chemicals, including 40lbs of potassium nitrate, after also finding bomb-making information. However it does seem like they made a rush to judgment in arresting him rather than simply letting the hospital hold him until medically cleared, after which the police could hold him for 48 hours without charging, all while they investigate things more thoroughly like any writing/internet posts etc that could indicate any actual intent to use the stuff, rather than simply a (very dangerous) lack of care in how he conducts his hobbies.
fxleach 6y ago
Fair enough, but would you take all of the most suspicious-looking items in your house that could possibly implicate you in a crime and put them all into one crate, including printed material and books that explain how to perform said crime?

by wjnc 6y ago

tastroder 6y ago

Ah well, just saw the house fire tweet and sent him a few bucks. Guess I'm on one more list now. There seem to be a few articles that are at least not half filled with the ramblings of an elderly neighbour: https://www.qgazette.com/articles/more-charges-possible-for-astoria-bomb-suspect/ https://www.qgazette.com/articles/more-charges-possible-for-... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8737513/NYPD-discover-bomb-making-materials-inside-NYC-home.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8737513/NYPD-discov... https://abc7ny.com/suspicious-package-queens-astoria-fire/6425363/ https://abc7ny.com/suspicious-package-queens-astoria-fire/64... Emotional distress seems pretty normal after your house burns down and there's plenty of people in our community with hobbies that would be considered odd. Naming suspects in these cases seems so weird from a non-US perspective, there's not even been a court case.

ratww 6y ago
This is terrible. All the news are based on speculation, but they plastered his very-Googlable-name everywhere, only making it harder for him to get a job now. I honestly can't see anything positive about those articles existing before there's a proper court case.
- schmappel 6y ago
  I never understood the need to name suspects - address and all - in this country. In my home country suspects that are (or are about to be) charged and convicted with a crime have their last name abbreviated (e.g. Paul S.), which seems completely reasonable to me. You're innocent until proven guilty, for one. But even if you're guilty and convicted, your punishment should be limited to whatever the judge rules it should be. I don't see the need for public shaming beyond whatever punishment they get in court should they be convicted. When someone is released after a prison sentence they have a right to resume their life. They did their time, after all. Sorry if I sound like I'm rambling a bit, English is not my native language.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    It's about retribution and the idea that lawyers can influence the justice system and let "bad guys" go free. A lot of the states with lax laws around naming people accused of crimes are the same ones still dishing out the death penalty.
marcinzm 6y ago
>Naming suspects in these cases seems so weird from a non-US perspective, there's not even been a court case. As I understand it, the original reason for this is to prevent the police from simply making people disappear. It's a public check on what the police and government do to people.
- darkwater 6y ago
  Even in that case is the WRONG solution to a problem.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    Then what is the better solution? Saying it's wrong without giving alternatives isn't a very useful comment imho. edit: And the solution needs to apply to the US, with all it's brokenness, not some other country with different social structures.
    - chris_wot 6y ago
      The media doesn’t do this is the U.K. or Australia. We have much stronger libel laws. Nobody has been “disappeared” by the police, either.
      - joh6nn 6y ago
        serious question: how would you know?
      - rodgerd 6y ago
        > Nobody has been “disappeared” by the police, either. Your faith in the British police would be charming if it wasn't the thing that lead to things like the Guildford 4.
    - darkwater 6y ago
      > Then what is the better solution? That police should not make people disappear from their families without proper noticing, it would be a starter. I'm not from the USA but I think I can already guess who usually suddenly go missing because the police got them.
baobabKoodaa 6y ago
I agree it's terrible that the papers named him so early, and I do think we should give him the benefit of the doubt, but given the information out there right now, there is a reasonable chance he actually was making a bomb. It seems to me like people are willing to jump to the opposite conclusion simply because he's "one of us". Let the investigation play its course.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  ... what? You realize the concept of innocent until proven guilty is not a unique concept to HN readers right? That presumption of innocence is not "act like maybe he was making bombs until proven guilty"? It sounds like you've let the media erode your understanding of a very basic human right, but do not try and cast it on others as some sort of tribalism. He is innocent until proven guilty. Not "reasonable chance" according to your random opinion, but a judge and jury and various council go through a legal case and legally find him guilty.
  - unreal37 6y ago
    Obligatory Reddit-type response: "Sir, this is a Wendy's drive-thru. Not a court of law." HN response: Of course, everyone is free to say what they wish. First amendment. Freedom of speech. Freedom of thought. Freedom is the basic human right. Wikipedia says, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 11, states: "Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defense." Notice that this covers the rights of someone "who has been charged with an offence" in "a public trial". There's not actually a "human right" preventing people from having or expressing opinions. Does that make sense?
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      Precious little about your comment makes sense from that first sentence to the rest of it. > Of course, everyone is free to say what they wish. First amendment. Freedom of speech. Freedom of thought. Freedom is the basic human right. I'm not even going to bother falling into the tangential tarpit of acting like someone is a bomb maker without them having gone to trial is a "1st amendment right". After all, if your best defense of a statement is "I'm legally allowed to say it", it's probably not worth much consideration. > Notice that this covers the rights of someone "who has been charged with an offence" in "a public trial". No it doesn't. It covers the rights of a person. Period. That's literally the point of a universal declaration of human rights You're trying to play word sashimi to make a point that isn't made. The definition of guilt is specific to a public trial exactly because a "trial" of public opinions is so easy to manipulate. Sure it can't force the general public to be decent people and understand that people should be presumed innocent until proven guilty... but it's also not endorsing the public not do so. It's not limiting presumption of innocence to trials.

elcritch 6y ago

Yikes, what you describe could easily be a decent portion of HN people’s homes. Don’t forget the anti-social, unpopular with the neighbors bit either. And of course the NYPost appears to thrive on drumming up scandal.

White_Wolf 6y ago
I second that. The ammount of microcontrollers, arduino/RPI boards, gsm modules, 400 Mhz radio transcievers and such would most likely "make me available" for "interviews". Just a few years back when moved to a diff city for the job we had a visit to check if "we're ok" because our electricity bill was way above the average for the area. The silver lining: My wife was ok with me upgrading everything in the rack with new, low(er) power equipment.
DubiousPusher 6y ago
Also, never forget how these intitial police investigations are wrong all the time. How do they know this is potassium nitrate? Was it labeled? Does it look like it? Smell like it? Taste like it?

IshKebab 6y ago

Do you have any ammonium nitrate though? I mean, chances are he was just some pyro and not actually interested in bombing/killing people. But it's dumb to do that in a flat.

tastroder 6y ago
> But it's dumb to do that in a flat. One of the other articles refers to some sort of fireproof container outside of the house.
- nmeofthestate 6y ago
  >Cops said FDNY fire marshals are combing through Squire’s charred, first-floor apartment to determine the cause of the blaze, an FDNY spokesperson said. The fact that his apartment is 'charred' suggests he was doing stuff in it. Could be he took the materials with him as he was trying to escape out the back window, or that's just where he was storing them so they wouldn't be found if a search was conducted. I think it's useful that this was reported on, because it could make people more wary of shelling out money to a guy who was recklessly endangering others even if there were no nefarious motives.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    > The fact that his apartment is 'charred' suggests he was doing stuff in it. Or, it suggests that there was a fire, which is not really up for debate. > Could be he took the materials with him as he was trying to escape out the back window You are making up a hypothesis to make someone sound guilty with no evidence. > I think it's useful that this was reported on, because it could make people more wary of shelling out money to a guy who was recklessly endangering others even if there were no nefarious motives. This is a poor opinion. First, he has not been found guilty of "reckless endangement", and you are just assuming he's guilty. Do you also expect to see reporting every time someone recklessly endangers others by driving at high speeds through a school zone, or accidently runs through a stop sign? Publishing accusations of someone (especially a very easily google-able person) being a terrorist is not something that should be done lightly without proof. Hell, right now I'm pretty sure I have both bleach and ammonia in my apartment as regular cleaning supplies. When combined, these ingredients are dangerous, but that sure as shit doesn't mean I'm endangering others just by possessing them.

woah 6y ago

40 pounds of potassium nitrate?

anon73044 6y ago
Pretty common size from the big box and home & garden type stores. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sta-Green-43-lb-15-000-sq-ft-32-0-10-Winterizer/1000140089 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Sta-Green-43-lb-15-000-sq-ft-32-0-1... I'd be suspicions if he had 10-20 bags and didn't run a landscaping company or multiple acres or grass to maintain.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  For an apartment in NYC??
  - runawaybottle 6y ago
    My drugs and alcohol spidey senses are tingling. I’d be so pissed if my next door neighbor in my apartment building was doing that.
  - anon73044 6y ago
    Looked more like a row house than an apartment.
DubiousPusher 6y ago
There is no reason to implicitly trust what a police officer tells a reporter or says at a press conference during the initial investigation of a crime.

ineedasername 6y ago

I think it's reasonable for police & even FBI to investigate after a fire in a home with lots of chemicals, including 40lbs of potassium nitrate, after also finding bomb-making information. However it does seem like they made a rush to judgment in arresting him rather than simply letting the hospital hold him until medically cleared, after which the police could hold him for 48 hours without charging, all while they investigate things more thoroughly like any writing/internet posts etc that could indicate any actual intent to use the stuff, rather than simply a (very dangerous) lack of care in how he conducts his hobbies.

fxleach 6y ago

Fair enough, but would you take all of the most suspicious-looking items in your house that could possibly implicate you in a crime and put them all into one crate, including printed material and books that explain how to perform said crime?