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Fraud obviously happens that doesn't come to light until later: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-philadelphia-judge-elections-convicted-conspiring-violate-

Fraud obviously happens that doesn't come to light until later: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-philadelphia-judge-elections-convicted-conspiring-violate-civil-rights-and-bribery https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-philadelphia-judge-ele...

js2 6y ago
You found one in the 0.00002%. Notably, this occurred during a primary. It's still awful, but the GOP trusts the Democrats to run their own primaries and vice-versa. I wonder how this came to light years after. https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-can-vote/vote-suppression/myth-voter-fraud https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-c...
- fastball 6y ago
  The problem with fraud is that it's a "victimless" crime, so there could be a lot of fraud going undetected that we just don't know to look for.
  - Schiendelman 6y ago
    There really couldn’t be, no. The mechanisms by which people think there could are easily falsified.
    - fastball 6y ago
      Are you saying voter fraud can't be a victimless crime? What "couldn't be"? How do you falsify me voting for my grandmother with dementia? My grandma will never know, and neither will anyone else. Look, I am more into data-driven policy than the vast majority of people. But the data saying you don't need to make a change is not the same as the data saying you shouldn't make a change.
      - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
        > How do you falsify me voting for my grandmother with dementia? My grandma will never know, and neither will anyone else. Yes, you could absolutely do that. But you can't swing an election that way.
        fastball 6y ago
        I didn’t say you could.
        Schiendelman 6y ago
        It’s harder than you think. Signature verification is real and works.
      - Schiendelman 6y ago
        You must be very good at forging your grandmother’s signature. Like I said, easily falsifiable.
- guildwriter 6y ago
  Twisted things being done in our elections goes back to Tammany Hall. If you know where to look in American history it's not hard to find credible instances of important elections having substantial amounts of fraud. Why do people believe that when the chips are down and vast amounts of money and power are at stake that people are simply going to play fair? Especially when the players are some of the most ruthless, narcissistic, and sociopathic people in America? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_United_States_Senate_election_in_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_United_States_Senate_elec... >The validity of the runoff election was challenged before the US Supreme Court due to allegations of election fraud, and in later years, testimony by parties involved indicated that widespread fraud occurred and that friendly political machines[3] produced the fraudulent votes needed for Johnson to have a numerical majority, in effect stealing the election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election_in_Illinois https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidentia... > Some, including Republican legislators and journalists, believed that Kennedy benefited from vote fraud from Mayor Richard Daley's powerful Chicago political machine. [12] Mayor Daley’s machine was known for "delivering whopping Democratic tallies by fair means and foul."[13] Republicans tried and failed to overturn the results at the time—as well as in ten other states.[13] Some journalists also later claimed that mobster Sam Giancana and his Chicago crime syndicate "played a role" in Kennedy's victory. [13] Nixon's campaign staff urged him to pursue recounts and challenge the validity of Kennedy's victory, however, Nixon gave a speech three days after the election stating that he would not contest the election.[14]
  - xyzzyz 6y ago
    This "Chicago political machine" was later shown to have committed voter fraud in 1982. 26 people were convicted[1], and here's the grand jury report[2]. They had been getting away with it, until they didn't. Fortunately, as media reassure us, today voting fraud simply cannot happen: you'd need a whole conspiracy of dozens of people, a real, as one could call it, machine. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Illinois_elections#Allegations_of_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Illinois_elections#Allega... [2] - https://sites.duke.edu/pjms364s_01_s2016_jaydelancy/files/2016/04/Report-of-the-Special-Grand-Jury-US-District-Court-NE-Illinois-.pdf https://sites.duke.edu/pjms364s_01_s2016_jaydelancy/files/20...
- Josh262 6y ago
  According to an article at the “The Daily News” that stated that the New York police department issued 397 jaywalking tickets in 2019. Now in 2019, New York Population 2019 – 20.106 Million (estimated). So according to your logic(and the Brennancenter), it is only 0.0000197% that someone in New York is going to Jaywalk. That percentage is so small, Any vehicle driver should not worry about Jaywalkers when we travel to New York city. Or is it that nobody is really proactively monitoring to catch the Jaywalkers in the act or are they waiting a week, 10 day, a month or 2 later trying to investigate alleged infraction after all the “evidence” is now across the street?

js2 6y ago

You found one in the 0.00002%. Notably, this occurred during a primary. It's still awful, but the GOP trusts the Democrats to run their own primaries and vice-versa. I wonder how this came to light years after. https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-can-vote/vote-suppression/myth-voter-fraud https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-c...

fastball 6y ago
The problem with fraud is that it's a "victimless" crime, so there could be a lot of fraud going undetected that we just don't know to look for.
- Schiendelman 6y ago
  There really couldn’t be, no. The mechanisms by which people think there could are easily falsified.
  - fastball 6y ago
    Are you saying voter fraud can't be a victimless crime? What "couldn't be"? How do you falsify me voting for my grandmother with dementia? My grandma will never know, and neither will anyone else. Look, I am more into data-driven policy than the vast majority of people. But the data saying you don't need to make a change is not the same as the data saying you shouldn't make a change.
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      > How do you falsify me voting for my grandmother with dementia? My grandma will never know, and neither will anyone else. Yes, you could absolutely do that. But you can't swing an election that way.
      - fastball 6y ago
        I didn’t say you could.
      - Schiendelman 6y ago
        It’s harder than you think. Signature verification is real and works.
    - Schiendelman 6y ago
      You must be very good at forging your grandmother’s signature. Like I said, easily falsifiable.
guildwriter 6y ago
Twisted things being done in our elections goes back to Tammany Hall. If you know where to look in American history it's not hard to find credible instances of important elections having substantial amounts of fraud. Why do people believe that when the chips are down and vast amounts of money and power are at stake that people are simply going to play fair? Especially when the players are some of the most ruthless, narcissistic, and sociopathic people in America? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_United_States_Senate_election_in_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_United_States_Senate_elec... >The validity of the runoff election was challenged before the US Supreme Court due to allegations of election fraud, and in later years, testimony by parties involved indicated that widespread fraud occurred and that friendly political machines[3] produced the fraudulent votes needed for Johnson to have a numerical majority, in effect stealing the election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election_in_Illinois https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidentia... > Some, including Republican legislators and journalists, believed that Kennedy benefited from vote fraud from Mayor Richard Daley's powerful Chicago political machine. [12] Mayor Daley’s machine was known for "delivering whopping Democratic tallies by fair means and foul."[13] Republicans tried and failed to overturn the results at the time—as well as in ten other states.[13] Some journalists also later claimed that mobster Sam Giancana and his Chicago crime syndicate "played a role" in Kennedy's victory. [13] Nixon's campaign staff urged him to pursue recounts and challenge the validity of Kennedy's victory, however, Nixon gave a speech three days after the election stating that he would not contest the election.[14]
- xyzzyz 6y ago
  This "Chicago political machine" was later shown to have committed voter fraud in 1982. 26 people were convicted[1], and here's the grand jury report[2]. They had been getting away with it, until they didn't. Fortunately, as media reassure us, today voting fraud simply cannot happen: you'd need a whole conspiracy of dozens of people, a real, as one could call it, machine. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Illinois_elections#Allegations_of_fraud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Illinois_elections#Allega... [2] - https://sites.duke.edu/pjms364s_01_s2016_jaydelancy/files/2016/04/Report-of-the-Special-Grand-Jury-US-District-Court-NE-Illinois-.pdf https://sites.duke.edu/pjms364s_01_s2016_jaydelancy/files/20...
Josh262 6y ago
According to an article at the “The Daily News” that stated that the New York police department issued 397 jaywalking tickets in 2019. Now in 2019, New York Population 2019 – 20.106 Million (estimated). So according to your logic(and the Brennancenter), it is only 0.0000197% that someone in New York is going to Jaywalk. That percentage is so small, Any vehicle driver should not worry about Jaywalkers when we travel to New York city. Or is it that nobody is really proactively monitoring to catch the Jaywalkers in the act or are they waiting a week, 10 day, a month or 2 later trying to investigate alleged infraction after all the “evidence” is now across the street?