10 ms·

Send Payments in India with WhatsApp

143 points by graposaymaname 6y ago

dilawar 6y ago
Seems like after Facebook invested in Reliance, they got the government approval .
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  Also NPCI introduced an absurd new rule that will help new entrants gain market share at the expense of established apps. Smells like Mukesh Ambani's handiwork to help FB. https://english.jagran.com/technology/npci-announces-30-per-cent-cap-for-third-party-upi-apps-here-s-how-it-may-affect-digital-transactions-in-india-10019475 https://english.jagran.com/technology/npci-announces-30-per-...
  - ETHisso2017 6y ago
    Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's plainly there to help WhatsApp Pay gain traction at the expense of Google Pay, PayTM, and PhonePe
    - namanaggarwal 6y ago
      I think its the opposite. The reason whatsapp was not getting approval was for the fear of monopoly. They brought this rule just before allowing WhatsApp. Also note that existing players still have time to comply but WhatsApp has to comply with this since day 1
    - sidchilling 6y ago
      The rule being referred to, I believe, is that RBI doesn’t want any single payment app to have more than 30% market share. I believe, that’s a good thing and good to see it being thought out much earlier in the lifecycle of UPI. When it comes to people’s money, it’s in the interest of the country not to have monopolies.
      - kumarvvr 6y ago
        So, lets say there are only 2 apps in the market after a few years. For what ever reasons. Do they stop doing transactions after they reach their 30% cap?
        ffpip 6y ago
        Every bank has it's UPI app. And there are hundreds of banks in India.
        sidchilling 6y ago
        Also by definition there won’t be. Because two apps can capture 60% market share, there’s still 40% to be captured. Free markets would incentivise people to come up with at least 2 other players, no?
      - perryizgr8 6y ago
        > RBI doesn’t want any single payment app to have more than 30% market share Got it, but how do you limit an app? Does google pay simply stop onboarding new users at some point? Do my transactions start failing after a certain day of the month? Both of these are horrible UX and unfair to google pay who has developed their good user experience. If this rule is not rolled back, I predict that India's digital payments landscape will be a barren wasteland in a year's time. There is no incentive for Google or Phonepe or Paytm to continue working on an app that is guaranteed to never grow beyond where they already are. Personally, if gpay transactions become unreliable because they have to drop every 5th transaction to satisfy the quota, I'll switch back to cash.
  - _jgdh 6y ago
    This is such weird regulation. Rather than set rules for a level playing field it seeks to dictate outcomes. Telling payment providers that they can’t exceed 30% of total payments is as absurd as telling Apple or Samsung to not exceed 30% of the smartphone market. They’re supposed to stop selling or rate limiting when they’re reaching their cap? I’d love to get the input of the blind devotees of the supposedly pro business Prime Minister of India. There’s no shortage of you lot on HN. Could you please explain how making an app stop working in the best interests of Indian consumers? But please don’t try “The central bank is independent” as an explanation. No one believes that, least of all you.
rapsey 6y ago
I guess they are aiming to be the indian WeChat
- robjan 6y ago
  The difference being that it's neither an Indian app nor are the majority of their users based in India.
  - searchableguy 6y ago
    > nor are the majority of their users based in India. Approx 340 million users in India: https://www.statista.com/statistics/289778/countries-with-the-most-facebook-users https://www.statista.com/statistics/289778/countries-with-th...
    - bzb6 6y ago
      And what’s current MAU globally? 2B?
  - rapsey 6y ago
    Is that relevant?
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
    Both of these factors are less relevant than the fact that almost every internet connected Indian uses Whatsapp.
- tsjq 6y ago
  Yes.. together with Reliance
- shi314 6y ago
  They could have been like WeChat, if it was not acquired by Facebook. Facebook avoids apps competing with each other. Not every CEO has guts to create a product that destroys their major profit source like Ma (Ten Cent).
curiousmindz 6y ago
If this move is successful, it could also open the door for Facebook Libra.
- jeswin 6y ago
  How? And what can Libra offer? In India, these payments have to land in a Rupee account held in a bank.
- ffpip 6y ago
  UPI is something like a framework. All these apps access the UPI payment system. They do nothing on their own. You can pay with Google Pay/PhonePe/Paytm/Amazon/Whatsapp with the same QR code. It's like XMPP for payments. Libra has no chance of getting into India. UPI is way too popular now.
pritambarhate 6y ago
Should have done 3-4 years ago. Now there are at least 3 apps fighting for leadership in payments: PayTM, Google Pay and PhonePe. Will be hard for Whatsapp to break into.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  They have been trying for 2 years but were blocked by the government. https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/6/21552325/whatsapp-payment-service-india-launches-regulatory-approval-upi-graded-ncpi https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/6/21552325/whatsapp-payment...
- ahiknsr 6y ago
  No single app can dominate the market because National Payments Corporation of India has decided to impose a cap on transactions that a single payment application can process. https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/npci-imposes-cap-on-share-of-upi-transactions https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/npci-imposes-cap-on-...
  - searchableguy 6y ago
    They all use UPI too which means there isn't a vendor lock-in similar to paypal. Government may also remove wallets (which aren't part of UPI) completely in future through regulation.
    - shi314 6y ago
      There is currently a new law regarding this. RBI has mandated that Wallets without balance for 12 Months would be deactivated.
  - blueblisters 6y ago
    This is pretty consumer-unfriendly. Users are forced to use a different app if their chosen app has 30% market share?
    - 6y ago
oefrha 6y ago
I looked up P2P payments in India, and found this TC article from April 2019, "Amazon Pay launches peer-to-peer payments in India"[1], according to which an April 2019 launch was already a "late start": > Amazon is getting a late start, however, when it comes to P2P payments in India. Its rivals (Paytm, Google Pay and PhonePe) already support P2P, with Google Pay in the lead. I wonder what differentiates this offering from WhatsApp? (I guess the majority of people already establish contact on WhatsApp?) Also, given that India semi-recently blocked some entertainment apps on national security grounds (let's assume the stated intent for the sake of the argument), I wonder if anyone in the Indian government is alarmed that U.S. megacorps hold IMO much more precious keys to the financial security of their 1.4B population? [1] https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/29/amazon-pay-launches-peer-to-peer-payments-in-india/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/29/amazon-pay-launches-peer-t...
- YetAnotherNick 6y ago
  > I wonder what differentiates this offering from WhatsApp? Whatsapp active users are order of magnitudes more than other platform. New users would want to save the hassle of new app, if both platforms are comparable in offerings.
- krtkush 6y ago
  > Also, given that India semi-recently blocked some entertainment apps on national security grounds (let's assume the stated intent for the sake of the argument), I wonder if anyone in the Indian government is alarmed that U.S. megacorps hold IMO much more precious keys to the financial security of their 1.4B population? Most of these payment systems are just a wrapper around GOI's UPI (which is one of the best things to come out of India in the past decade)[1]. The money remains in banks throughout the transaction. Additionally, very little of people's money is stored in digital wallets and that too for a short period of time (anecdotal). However, yes it should be a cause of concern for any country when foreign firms are tightly involved in its economic sector, and we cannot discount interventions on basis of internal security and geopolitical situations. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface
aneutron 6y ago
Can you please provide encrypted backups first ? It's ridiculous to have no way of transferrig your data other than unencrypted Google Drive backups...
- notRobot 6y ago
  You can copy the db file from one phone to another and have all your chats sync up
  - krtkush 6y ago
    Even on iOS devices?
    - notRobot 6y ago
      No, but you can't use Google drive either on iPhones, IIRC.
      - krtkush 6y ago
        No you can't. You can only use iCloud which is not 100% secure AFAIK.
        import 6y ago
        Why iCloud it’s not %100 secure?
        krtkush 6y ago
        https://www.boxcryptor.com/en/blog/post/iphone-backup-icloud-encryption/ https://www.boxcryptor.com/en/blog/post/iphone-backup-icloud... Though, it is possible that WhatsApp is encrypting backups before uploading them to iCloud.
ak39 6y ago
Why is P2P more successful in India than in Africa (eg. South Africa)? Serious question and TIA for anyone with insight.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  The single biggest contributor to the rise of UPI was demonetization and the significant push from companies & banks by offering discounts and removing transaction charges until recently.
- ffpip 6y ago
  Reliance Jio gave everyone free internet. Hundreds of millions of Indians came online. More people started using UPI due to it being easy, no lock-ins, and digital. Then demonitisation happened in a week. The rest is history.
- sreejithr 6y ago
  Demonetization 2016
  - acd10j 6y ago
    There was very little effect of Demonetization on UPI adoption, Growth rate of UPI was already very good before demonetization , Very little effect of Demonetization on it's adoption, Covid-19 actually gave more boost to UPI adoption of late. Don't any believe lies propagated by ruling parties.
- ptm 6y ago
  In India, there are many marginal businesses which are not registered as a business. I expect a lot of P2P payments to be Peer to unregistered business.
ffpip 6y ago
I am predicting that this will beat Google and paytm to take the first place (30% of market share). Whatsapp is insanely popular here in India. Phones are sold here with features like 'Runs Whatsapp'. My grandmother doesn't know to operate the android keyboard. She uses whatsapp. It's that popular.
- realshadow 6y ago
  People like your grand mother dont send money online.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    They might receive money though.
  - perryizgr8 6y ago
    Digital payments have really picked up here. His grandmother may use it to pay the vegetable seller, or at any local shop.
  - ffpip 6y ago
    Well now she can, once I set up everything for her (pin, bank account linking, etc)
    - realshadow 6y ago
      I do not even let my parents have net/mobile banking bcz online is full of crooks and fraudsters. hey its just me.
      - ffpip 6y ago
        Yeah that's my only concern. I'll see if there is a way to setup payment notifications after asking her about it.
  - cinbun8 6y ago
    That's kinda the point
pgt 6y ago
We need separation of cash & comms.
achow 6y ago
In India and I have WhatsApp Payment enabled for more than a year (if I remember it right). I guess I was one of their early beta tester. While it is convenient to send money to another person using WhatsApp but I have used it only few times in more than a year or so having it, even though on an avg' I do atleast couple of transactions a day. One of the big reason for me to use it so less is perhaps because among my contacts and with whom I have need to exchange money were not part of beta program, BUT STILL I think P2P transactions are overrated as a focus area. Most of my transaction happens due to ecommerce (food delivery, online shopping and others such), offline buys (ex. grocery store payment using shopkeeper's QR Code), transactions using bank app (Ex. for big ticket items like monthly rents, regular payments like electricity, credit card bills), and things like quick bank balance check which is super convenient using Payment Apps like GooglePay and others. WhatsApp payment experience is very bare bones, it just focuses on casual transactions among ones contacts - not on deep and broad payment experience in different domains as one encounters in real life. Famous last words perhaps: WhatsApp payment feature would be yet another payment mechanism in an already crowded space, it would not make much difference to us user's life, UNLESS they focus on payment space very deeply and bring merchants, online commerce etc. into picture.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  I believe there is a big value in touristic areas, once they allow it globally. If tourists can pay easily without needing money exchange bevorhand this can increase spendings. Risk is that the app might show values in home currency, which makes total ripoffs more transparent (but can encourage with a "oh so cheap!") The long play: Once tourists are happy with it they go home and want to pay that way at home, too.
  - antaviana 6y ago
    Do you want to give your personal phone number to anyone you buy something from?
    - reidjs 6y ago
      Do you think there will be a way to pay anonymously?
gprasanth 6y ago
I expect the support to be pathetic. I have had a transaction from April this year that is still stuck in processing... with no sign of refund.
mcraiha 6y ago
Many countries now have phone number based payment systems (e.g. Siirto and MobilePay in Finland). So maybe it is a time for universal system?
- madspindel 6y ago
  In EU we will soon have EMPSA so it's moving in the right direction: https://empsa.org/ https://empsa.org/
  - AnssiH 6y ago
    Well, Europe, as they have several members from non-EU countries (Bosnia-Herzegovina, Norway, Switzerland).
godelmachine 6y ago
I made my first WhatsApp payment in August 2019, so reckon they rolled out for iOS much sooner. While WhatsApp has done a brilliant job rolling this out, my only grievance is the WhatsApp UPI ID they have given. Mine’s something like 91xxxx.wa.efo@bankname. Life would be a lot easier if we get something like 91xxx@whatsapp. That would also enable me to pay directly via WA while shopping on Amazon/ Flipkart. Currently, I depend on PhonePe and PayTM to complete my online transactions using UPI. I understand the characters succeeding @ is mostly a bank name offering UPI platform but even taking that into consideration, a username like 91xxx.wa@bankname would be much more convenient. PS - I know “wa” in my username stands for WhatsApp but have no idea about “efo”. If someone would kindly proffer a suggestion.
- achow 6y ago
  Mine has '5is' instead of your 'efo'. So mine is 91xxxx.wa.5is@bankname as compared to your 91xxxx.wa.efo@bankname
- pascoej 6y ago
  The three characters are to avoid problems with generating upi ids with recycled numbers.
jitendrac 6y ago
I fear for more olx scams, whatsapp and upi payment will be heaven for scammer.
siddheshrane24 6y ago
And just like that Facebook just captured the market share considering the gigantic Whatsapp users in India. Building features like splitwise, group payments etc would make them unbeatable in near future. But the part that scares me the most are the various SCAMS that can take place, considering we're already dealing with UPI based payments scams which are happening round the clock.
- artiszt 6y ago
  point. Zuckerboi and his lot obviously have not given up completely on getting their way when it comes to financial services [including own currency]. becoming a major player on a vast market like India certainly makes it easier for them to proceed.
astatine 6y ago
I did the first payment on WhatsApp during their early beta period, in Feb 2018 to be precise. It has taken a while to get to general availability. Even now, for some strange reason they are permitted to serve only 20m users. Their beta was 2m users and they blew through that very early. The user experience was fantastic - easier than sending a camera pic or audio message. They had zero promotions during the beta period unlike everyone else who were offering tons of freebies, not just at initial launch but even till now. If this works (as I think it will) it will lay waste to the billions of dollars that GooglePay, PhonePe and Paytm threw around. Wonder if that will make the others throw around more cash to retain users or if the market will switch to a more rational model where people are not being paid to pay.
charliebrownau 6y ago
Every considered its better to go back to Physical currency and Barter , instead of Digital Fait run by Global Central banking cartels I recommend checking out LOCAL CURRENCY based on HOURS you can pay for goods and services in your local town and community No State/Goverment No central banks No Debt based System No USRY It helps people - Small business, farming, producing, manfactoring Not the goverment Not banks Not corporations
kumarvvr 6y ago
Sending money to others in Whatsapp has the following issues To send, you have to have a conversation going on in Whatsapp. That means adding that person to your contact list. This is problematic because, you deal with many unknown vendors over time. Using whatsapp to send payments would spam your contact list. edit: Also, this is using Unified Payments Interface (UPI). There are a lot of apps that have much better UI/UX & Value adds than WA. I use PayTM, in which, I scan a QR code with the UPI address, do the payment and be done with it. Very simple to use, no issue of confusion / sending money to wrong person, No known privacy issues, etc. Also, It's not like a lot of people want to send money to their friends. Usually, it's business transactions. It could work for off bank micro loans, provided there is an app for tracking and charging interest, etc.
- swiley 6y ago
  There's no downside to vendors here, other than the bad UX which zero people care about in practice.
- metahost 6y ago
  You can WhatsApp someone without saving their number. Just use the link https://wa.me/<phone https://wa.me/<phone number goes here>/ This is by WhatsApp, the company, itself.
  - ffpip 6y ago
    FYI, the number must contain the international country code
- blocked_again 6y ago
  You think WhatsApp is incapable of building a QR scanner?
Techasura 6y ago
Time to uninstall the app on my mom's phone.
Scoundreller 6y ago
The my should enable this in Canada. No Venmo or Square Cash here. It’s funny since Square does Cash App dev in Toronto: https://jobs.smartrecruiters.com/Square/743999717607379-senior-software-engineer-commerce-cash-app https://jobs.smartrecruiters.com/Square/743999717607379-seni... “Email Money Transfers” kinda work, but I can see a tech-forward alternative eating up 80-90% of that business. And I don’t think they plan on international business. And as a “rich” country with a ton of immigrants, we probably have the most international remittances per capita.
lota-putty 6y ago
They(RBI & Govt of India) rather work on leaner AndroidOS (LineageOS + microG) and BhIM[1] like Apps for popular smartphones sold across India. Don't privatise charity & security; humanise it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BHIM#Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BHIM#Security
anotherNae 6y ago
While this is a great step towards bringing new users into the UPI ecosystem, it would also lead to rampant UPI scams to a lot of unsuspecting users - the most common being asking for an OTP to receive money - facilitated by the very ease WhatsApp provides. It's all too depressing the way majority of WhatsApp users will forward literally any message, though WhatsApp could do a better job of listing the origin of the message than just a `Forwarded` label.

dilawar 6y ago

Seems like after Facebook invested in Reliance, they got the government approval .

perryizgr8 6y ago
Also NPCI introduced an absurd new rule that will help new entrants gain market share at the expense of established apps. Smells like Mukesh Ambani's handiwork to help FB. https://english.jagran.com/technology/npci-announces-30-per-cent-cap-for-third-party-upi-apps-here-s-how-it-may-affect-digital-transactions-in-india-10019475 https://english.jagran.com/technology/npci-announces-30-per-...
- ETHisso2017 6y ago
  Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's plainly there to help WhatsApp Pay gain traction at the expense of Google Pay, PayTM, and PhonePe
  - namanaggarwal 6y ago
    I think its the opposite. The reason whatsapp was not getting approval was for the fear of monopoly. They brought this rule just before allowing WhatsApp. Also note that existing players still have time to comply but WhatsApp has to comply with this since day 1
  - sidchilling 6y ago
    The rule being referred to, I believe, is that RBI doesn’t want any single payment app to have more than 30% market share. I believe, that’s a good thing and good to see it being thought out much earlier in the lifecycle of UPI. When it comes to people’s money, it’s in the interest of the country not to have monopolies.
    - kumarvvr 6y ago
      So, lets say there are only 2 apps in the market after a few years. For what ever reasons. Do they stop doing transactions after they reach their 30% cap?
      - ffpip 6y ago
        Every bank has it's UPI app. And there are hundreds of banks in India.
        sidchilling 6y ago
        Also by definition there won’t be. Because two apps can capture 60% market share, there’s still 40% to be captured. Free markets would incentivise people to come up with at least 2 other players, no?
    - perryizgr8 6y ago
      > RBI doesn’t want any single payment app to have more than 30% market share Got it, but how do you limit an app? Does google pay simply stop onboarding new users at some point? Do my transactions start failing after a certain day of the month? Both of these are horrible UX and unfair to google pay who has developed their good user experience. If this rule is not rolled back, I predict that India's digital payments landscape will be a barren wasteland in a year's time. There is no incentive for Google or Phonepe or Paytm to continue working on an app that is guaranteed to never grow beyond where they already are. Personally, if gpay transactions become unreliable because they have to drop every 5th transaction to satisfy the quota, I'll switch back to cash.
- _jgdh 6y ago
  This is such weird regulation. Rather than set rules for a level playing field it seeks to dictate outcomes. Telling payment providers that they can’t exceed 30% of total payments is as absurd as telling Apple or Samsung to not exceed 30% of the smartphone market. They’re supposed to stop selling or rate limiting when they’re reaching their cap? I’d love to get the input of the blind devotees of the supposedly pro business Prime Minister of India. There’s no shortage of you lot on HN. Could you please explain how making an app stop working in the best interests of Indian consumers? But please don’t try “The central bank is independent” as an explanation. No one believes that, least of all you.

rapsey 6y ago

I guess they are aiming to be the indian WeChat

robjan 6y ago
The difference being that it's neither an Indian app nor are the majority of their users based in India.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  > nor are the majority of their users based in India. Approx 340 million users in India: https://www.statista.com/statistics/289778/countries-with-the-most-facebook-users https://www.statista.com/statistics/289778/countries-with-th...
  - bzb6 6y ago
    And what’s current MAU globally? 2B?
- rapsey 6y ago
  Is that relevant?
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  Both of these factors are less relevant than the fact that almost every internet connected Indian uses Whatsapp.
tsjq 6y ago
Yes.. together with Reliance
shi314 6y ago
They could have been like WeChat, if it was not acquired by Facebook. Facebook avoids apps competing with each other. Not every CEO has guts to create a product that destroys their major profit source like Ma (Ten Cent).

curiousmindz 6y ago

If this move is successful, it could also open the door for Facebook Libra.

jeswin 6y ago
How? And what can Libra offer? In India, these payments have to land in a Rupee account held in a bank.
ffpip 6y ago
UPI is something like a framework. All these apps access the UPI payment system. They do nothing on their own. You can pay with Google Pay/PhonePe/Paytm/Amazon/Whatsapp with the same QR code. It's like XMPP for payments. Libra has no chance of getting into India. UPI is way too popular now.

pritambarhate 6y ago

Should have done 3-4 years ago. Now there are at least 3 apps fighting for leadership in payments: PayTM, Google Pay and PhonePe. Will be hard for Whatsapp to break into.

searchableguy 6y ago
They have been trying for 2 years but were blocked by the government. https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/6/21552325/whatsapp-payment-service-india-launches-regulatory-approval-upi-graded-ncpi https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/6/21552325/whatsapp-payment...
ahiknsr 6y ago
No single app can dominate the market because National Payments Corporation of India has decided to impose a cap on transactions that a single payment application can process. https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/npci-imposes-cap-on-share-of-upi-transactions https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/npci-imposes-cap-on-...
- searchableguy 6y ago
  They all use UPI too which means there isn't a vendor lock-in similar to paypal. Government may also remove wallets (which aren't part of UPI) completely in future through regulation.
  - shi314 6y ago
    There is currently a new law regarding this. RBI has mandated that Wallets without balance for 12 Months would be deactivated.
- blueblisters 6y ago
  This is pretty consumer-unfriendly. Users are forced to use a different app if their chosen app has 30% market share?
  - 6y ago

oefrha 6y ago

I looked up P2P payments in India, and found this TC article from April 2019, "Amazon Pay launches peer-to-peer payments in India"[1], according to which an April 2019 launch was already a "late start": > Amazon is getting a late start, however, when it comes to P2P payments in India. Its rivals (Paytm, Google Pay and PhonePe) already support P2P, with Google Pay in the lead. I wonder what differentiates this offering from WhatsApp? (I guess the majority of people already establish contact on WhatsApp?) Also, given that India semi-recently blocked some entertainment apps on national security grounds (let's assume the stated intent for the sake of the argument), I wonder if anyone in the Indian government is alarmed that U.S. megacorps hold IMO much more precious keys to the financial security of their 1.4B population? [1] https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/29/amazon-pay-launches-peer-to-peer-payments-in-india/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/29/amazon-pay-launches-peer-t...

YetAnotherNick 6y ago
> I wonder what differentiates this offering from WhatsApp? Whatsapp active users are order of magnitudes more than other platform. New users would want to save the hassle of new app, if both platforms are comparable in offerings.
krtkush 6y ago
> Also, given that India semi-recently blocked some entertainment apps on national security grounds (let's assume the stated intent for the sake of the argument), I wonder if anyone in the Indian government is alarmed that U.S. megacorps hold IMO much more precious keys to the financial security of their 1.4B population? Most of these payment systems are just a wrapper around GOI's UPI (which is one of the best things to come out of India in the past decade)[1]. The money remains in banks throughout the transaction. Additionally, very little of people's money is stored in digital wallets and that too for a short period of time (anecdotal). However, yes it should be a cause of concern for any country when foreign firms are tightly involved in its economic sector, and we cannot discount interventions on basis of internal security and geopolitical situations. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface

aneutron 6y ago

Can you please provide encrypted backups first ? It's ridiculous to have no way of transferrig your data other than unencrypted Google Drive backups...

notRobot 6y ago
You can copy the db file from one phone to another and have all your chats sync up
- krtkush 6y ago
  Even on iOS devices?
  - notRobot 6y ago
    No, but you can't use Google drive either on iPhones, IIRC.
    - krtkush 6y ago
      No you can't. You can only use iCloud which is not 100% secure AFAIK.
      - import 6y ago
        Why iCloud it’s not %100 secure?
        krtkush 6y ago
        https://www.boxcryptor.com/en/blog/post/iphone-backup-icloud-encryption/ https://www.boxcryptor.com/en/blog/post/iphone-backup-icloud... Though, it is possible that WhatsApp is encrypting backups before uploading them to iCloud.

ak39 6y ago

Why is P2P more successful in India than in Africa (eg. South Africa)? Serious question and TIA for anyone with insight.

searchableguy 6y ago
The single biggest contributor to the rise of UPI was demonetization and the significant push from companies & banks by offering discounts and removing transaction charges until recently.
ffpip 6y ago
Reliance Jio gave everyone free internet. Hundreds of millions of Indians came online. More people started using UPI due to it being easy, no lock-ins, and digital. Then demonitisation happened in a week. The rest is history.
sreejithr 6y ago
Demonetization 2016
- acd10j 6y ago
  There was very little effect of Demonetization on UPI adoption, Growth rate of UPI was already very good before demonetization , Very little effect of Demonetization on it's adoption, Covid-19 actually gave more boost to UPI adoption of late. Don't any believe lies propagated by ruling parties.
ptm 6y ago
In India, there are many marginal businesses which are not registered as a business. I expect a lot of P2P payments to be Peer to unregistered business.

ffpip 6y ago

I am predicting that this will beat Google and paytm to take the first place (30% of market share). Whatsapp is insanely popular here in India. Phones are sold here with features like 'Runs Whatsapp'. My grandmother doesn't know to operate the android keyboard. She uses whatsapp. It's that popular.

realshadow 6y ago
People like your grand mother dont send money online.
- fakedang 6y ago
  They might receive money though.
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  Digital payments have really picked up here. His grandmother may use it to pay the vegetable seller, or at any local shop.
- ffpip 6y ago
  Well now she can, once I set up everything for her (pin, bank account linking, etc)
  - realshadow 6y ago
    I do not even let my parents have net/mobile banking bcz online is full of crooks and fraudsters. hey its just me.
    - ffpip 6y ago
      Yeah that's my only concern. I'll see if there is a way to setup payment notifications after asking her about it.
- cinbun8 6y ago
  That's kinda the point

pgt 6y ago

We need separation of cash & comms.

achow 6y ago

In India and I have WhatsApp Payment enabled for more than a year (if I remember it right). I guess I was one of their early beta tester. While it is convenient to send money to another person using WhatsApp but I have used it only few times in more than a year or so having it, even though on an avg' I do atleast couple of transactions a day. One of the big reason for me to use it so less is perhaps because among my contacts and with whom I have need to exchange money were not part of beta program, BUT STILL I think P2P transactions are overrated as a focus area. Most of my transaction happens due to ecommerce (food delivery, online shopping and others such), offline buys (ex. grocery store payment using shopkeeper's QR Code), transactions using bank app (Ex. for big ticket items like monthly rents, regular payments like electricity, credit card bills), and things like quick bank balance check which is super convenient using Payment Apps like GooglePay and others. WhatsApp payment experience is very bare bones, it just focuses on casual transactions among ones contacts - not on deep and broad payment experience in different domains as one encounters in real life. Famous last words perhaps: WhatsApp payment feature would be yet another payment mechanism in an already crowded space, it would not make much difference to us user's life, UNLESS they focus on payment space very deeply and bring merchants, online commerce etc. into picture.

johannes1234321 6y ago
I believe there is a big value in touristic areas, once they allow it globally. If tourists can pay easily without needing money exchange bevorhand this can increase spendings. Risk is that the app might show values in home currency, which makes total ripoffs more transparent (but can encourage with a "oh so cheap!") The long play: Once tourists are happy with it they go home and want to pay that way at home, too.
- antaviana 6y ago
  Do you want to give your personal phone number to anyone you buy something from?
  - reidjs 6y ago
    Do you think there will be a way to pay anonymously?

gprasanth 6y ago

I expect the support to be pathetic. I have had a transaction from April this year that is still stuck in processing... with no sign of refund.

mcraiha 6y ago

Many countries now have phone number based payment systems (e.g. Siirto and MobilePay in Finland). So maybe it is a time for universal system?

madspindel 6y ago
In EU we will soon have EMPSA so it's moving in the right direction: https://empsa.org/ https://empsa.org/
- AnssiH 6y ago
  Well, Europe, as they have several members from non-EU countries (Bosnia-Herzegovina, Norway, Switzerland).

godelmachine 6y ago

I made my first WhatsApp payment in August 2019, so reckon they rolled out for iOS much sooner. While WhatsApp has done a brilliant job rolling this out, my only grievance is the WhatsApp UPI ID they have given. Mine’s something like 91xxxx.wa.efo@bankname. Life would be a lot easier if we get something like 91xxx@whatsapp. That would also enable me to pay directly via WA while shopping on Amazon/ Flipkart. Currently, I depend on PhonePe and PayTM to complete my online transactions using UPI. I understand the characters succeeding @ is mostly a bank name offering UPI platform but even taking that into consideration, a username like 91xxx.wa@bankname would be much more convenient. PS - I know “wa” in my username stands for WhatsApp but have no idea about “efo”. If someone would kindly proffer a suggestion.

achow 6y ago
Mine has '5is' instead of your 'efo'. So mine is 91xxxx.wa.5is@bankname as compared to your 91xxxx.wa.efo@bankname
pascoej 6y ago
The three characters are to avoid problems with generating upi ids with recycled numbers.

jitendrac 6y ago

I fear for more olx scams, whatsapp and upi payment will be heaven for scammer.

siddheshrane24 6y ago

And just like that Facebook just captured the market share considering the gigantic Whatsapp users in India. Building features like splitwise, group payments etc would make them unbeatable in near future. But the part that scares me the most are the various SCAMS that can take place, considering we're already dealing with UPI based payments scams which are happening round the clock.

artiszt 6y ago
point. Zuckerboi and his lot obviously have not given up completely on getting their way when it comes to financial services [including own currency]. becoming a major player on a vast market like India certainly makes it easier for them to proceed.

astatine 6y ago

I did the first payment on WhatsApp during their early beta period, in Feb 2018 to be precise. It has taken a while to get to general availability. Even now, for some strange reason they are permitted to serve only 20m users. Their beta was 2m users and they blew through that very early. The user experience was fantastic - easier than sending a camera pic or audio message. They had zero promotions during the beta period unlike everyone else who were offering tons of freebies, not just at initial launch but even till now. If this works (as I think it will) it will lay waste to the billions of dollars that GooglePay, PhonePe and Paytm threw around. Wonder if that will make the others throw around more cash to retain users or if the market will switch to a more rational model where people are not being paid to pay.

charliebrownau 6y ago

Every considered its better to go back to Physical currency and Barter , instead of Digital Fait run by Global Central banking cartels I recommend checking out LOCAL CURRENCY based on HOURS you can pay for goods and services in your local town and community No State/Goverment No central banks No Debt based System No USRY It helps people - Small business, farming, producing, manfactoring Not the goverment Not banks Not corporations

kumarvvr 6y ago

Sending money to others in Whatsapp has the following issues To send, you have to have a conversation going on in Whatsapp. That means adding that person to your contact list. This is problematic because, you deal with many unknown vendors over time. Using whatsapp to send payments would spam your contact list. edit: Also, this is using Unified Payments Interface (UPI). There are a lot of apps that have much better UI/UX & Value adds than WA. I use PayTM, in which, I scan a QR code with the UPI address, do the payment and be done with it. Very simple to use, no issue of confusion / sending money to wrong person, No known privacy issues, etc. Also, It's not like a lot of people want to send money to their friends. Usually, it's business transactions. It could work for off bank micro loans, provided there is an app for tracking and charging interest, etc.

swiley 6y ago
There's no downside to vendors here, other than the bad UX which zero people care about in practice.
metahost 6y ago
You can WhatsApp someone without saving their number. Just use the link https://wa.me/<phone https://wa.me/<phone number goes here>/ This is by WhatsApp, the company, itself.
- ffpip 6y ago
  FYI, the number must contain the international country code
blocked_again 6y ago
You think WhatsApp is incapable of building a QR scanner?

Techasura 6y ago

Time to uninstall the app on my mom's phone.

Scoundreller 6y ago

The my should enable this in Canada. No Venmo or Square Cash here. It’s funny since Square does Cash App dev in Toronto: https://jobs.smartrecruiters.com/Square/743999717607379-senior-software-engineer-commerce-cash-app https://jobs.smartrecruiters.com/Square/743999717607379-seni... “Email Money Transfers” kinda work, but I can see a tech-forward alternative eating up 80-90% of that business. And I don’t think they plan on international business. And as a “rich” country with a ton of immigrants, we probably have the most international remittances per capita.

lota-putty 6y ago

They(RBI & Govt of India) rather work on leaner AndroidOS (LineageOS + microG) and BhIM[1] like Apps for popular smartphones sold across India. Don't privatise charity & security; humanise it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BHIM#Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BHIM#Security

anotherNae 6y ago

While this is a great step towards bringing new users into the UPI ecosystem, it would also lead to rampant UPI scams to a lot of unsuspecting users - the most common being asking for an OTP to receive money - facilitated by the very ease WhatsApp provides. It's all too depressing the way majority of WhatsApp users will forward literally any message, though WhatsApp could do a better job of listing the origin of the message than just a `Forwarded` label.