8 ms·

Absolutely not equivalent. Find me a liberal police captain who’s calling for Trump supporters to be shot in the head: https://abc3340.com/news/local/alabama-po

Absolutely not equivalent. Find me a liberal police captain who’s calling for Trump supporters to be shot in the head: https://abc3340.com/news/local/alabama-police-chief-on-social-media-about-biden-voters-put-a-bullet-in-their-skull https://abc3340.com/news/local/alabama-police-chief-on-socia...

curious_fella1 6y ago
One loud, crazy voice doesn't represent the majority.
- nate_meurer 6y ago
  Normally I'd agree, but in this case, the loud crazy voice is often Trump himself.
- pnw_hazor 6y ago
  She is not alone.
humanrebar 6y ago
If intransigence is justified by any violent idiocy among the opposition, we will have mass intransigence indefinitely. We cannot reasonably ask for peaceful daytime demonstrations to be considered separately from after-sundown looting and arson if we aren't willing to make likewise considerations.
- faitswulff 6y ago
  The difference is that the police captain can shoot you and me and get away with it.
manigandham 6y ago
If you go hunting for extreme examples then you'll certainly find them, on every side. Or perhaps we should stop cherry-picking the extremes as representative of all the people.
- enraged_camel 6y ago
  On the contrary, this type of "both side-ism" is exactly what sabotages honest discussion. The sides are not anywhere near equal in their willingness to use violence to achieve their means. One side has leftists rioting in the streets and looting storefronts. The other side has conservatives plowing their cars through liberal protestors at full speed and murdering them. One side has leftists setting police cars on fire. The other side has conservatives plotting to kidnap and/or murder mayors and governors. One side has leftists throwing milkshakes at so-called "independent journalists". The other side has political candidates bodyslamming real journalists.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    No, it's the concept of "sides" that sabotages honest discussion. It's just extremists who are very loud and amplified by others. They do not represent the majority in the middle. There is no group with better humans. It's a failure of context, nuance and understanding if you think so.
    - catlifeonmars 6y ago
      Exactly. Side-ism — or the uncritical oversimplification of the complexity that is American politics and American demographics - is about as useful as racism. Honestly, what’s it good for?
    - XorNot 6y ago
      No there absolute is: it's the side which hasn't ongoingly and repeatedly attempted to murder members of the other. Property is not lives, and your "but the middle!" is meaningless: the middle if it exists is a group of people going "well, someone's dead, but also what about that vacant Wendy's?"
    - shadowgovt 6y ago
      There may be no group with better humans, but ideologies can be better or worse.
syshum 6y ago
While you found one crazy person... How about the high level democrats literally creating a list of "Trump Supporters" with the express purpose of "ejecting them from polite society" aka canceling them socially, and economically,
- arentyouspecial 6y ago
  More like we decided we don’t care for their shitty ideas or opinions.
  - syshum 6y ago
    So you admit that you are completely unable and unwilling to consider any argument or information that conflicts with your world views If I do not agree with you, if I have a outlook on the world that is different from your then I have "shitty ideas or opinions" and thus is ethical, moral and just of cancel me economically and socially? So you are admitting that the Democrats do no really want reconciliation or compromise, they want victory and subjection of their perceived enemies (republicans, conservatives, libertarians) Thanks for clearing that up for us
- nathannecro 6y ago
  Goodness me. I hate talking politics but let's not make the mistake of getting into false equivalency. The Trump presidency has gathered a cesspool of supporters and sycophants who: 1. Have at best maintained prosperity and growth (mostly by keeping interest rates low and patching economic holes with deregulations and/or short-term protectionist policies). The BBC(1) had a nice collection of charts showing -- essentially -- that the rate of change in the well-being of the economy did not deviate when Trump took office. 2. Have increased spending and absolutely ballooned our national debt (see "short-term" policies) (2). While I do not mind spending money to solve structural economic problems (automation removing jobs, the transition from polluting industries to cleaner ones), much of the funding went to solve problems the Trump administration created themselves! 3. Have absolutely demonstrated a complete dearth of moral and ethical values. This is an absolute killer in my book. From forcibly creating orphans (3) or allowing an enemy state to promote the hunting of American soldiers, it's clear that the administration has no moral qualms regarding their actions. When it comes to COVID, the United States has a per capita COVID death rate that is insanely disproportionate when compared with other developed countries. The US has a per capita COVID death rate that is 66x Japan, 18x Australia, and almost 6x Germany. While the rallying cry has been, "But saving the economy is more important than saving lives!", this is absolutely unsupported by data. The delta in GDP between the end of Q1 and the end of Q3 is roughly a loss of 9% in the United States (5). In Germany, that same period of time resulted only in a loss of 2.5% (6). The willful spread of lies and misinformation have caused much death not only in the United States, but in many other countries which historically have looked towards the United States as being a bastion of truth and information. Trump and his cronies have enabled many other leaders around the world by normalizing an unethical and immoral response to a crisis. Beyond the reduction of some federal taxes (which has admittedly saved me some money) and a stronger stance against IP theft (which I think is better for the United States but perhaps worse for the world), I struggle to come up with cases in which the Trump administration has improved America, the American people, or society as a whole in any meaningful manner. For four years, Trump and his assembled cohort causing a regression in American ethics, integrity, world standing, and education. They have done this intentionally. From the beginning, they've approached the governance of America like a popularity contest where the end goal was to satisfy sycophants and fill their own pockets. I am not calling all who support Trump racist or evil, but Trump and many of those he associates with have absolutely promoted hate, demonstrated unethical behavior, and upheld the highest levels of greed and degeneracy. If these people were my acquaintances in my personal or business life, you would not fault me for "ejecting" them from my life. I would imagine that if you had a friend who cheered when five hundred children were not only ripped from their families, but then kept in fear and isolation away from anyone they knew, and then were told that they would never see their parents again...you would not want to be associated with them at all. The fact of the matter is that there were people who did cheer this type of degenerate behavior and there were people that actively enabled the destruction of American integrity. Those people should absolutely be excised from "polite society" as pariahs to set an example so that others do not tread on the path of wickedness. Becoming socially undesirable is not even in the same realm as enabling the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans, allowing American soldiers to be killed, accepting foreign bribes to influence the American government, creating concentration camps where children are made to be orphans, fanning the flames of racial tensions, and so on. Sources: 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430 2: https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401 https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-de... 3: https://coppercourier.com/story/545-children-trump/ https://coppercourier.com/story/545-children-trump/ 4: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-pandemics-effect-on-the-widening-gap-in-mortality-rate-between-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-pandemics-effe... 5: https://www.bea.gov/news/2020/gross-domestic-product-third-quarter-2020-advance-estimate#:~:text=Real%20gross%20domestic%20product%20(GDP,the%20Bureau%20of%20Economic%20Analysis https://www.bea.gov/news/2020/gross-domestic-product-third-q.... 6: https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth#:~:text=GDP%20Growth%20Rate%20in%20Germany,the%20second%20quarter%20of%202020 https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth#:~:text=GDP%....
dcolkitt 6y ago
One of the most destructive trends in recent political discourse is the tendency to seek out the worst, rather than the best, arguments from the opposing side. Instead of engaging with articles from The National Review or Mother Jones, we just dunk on the most outrageous morons and trolls we can scour on Twitter or Reddit.
- ckaygusu 6y ago
  Yup, this is exactly the problem with modern politics. Take the absolute worst of the other side and project it to all of them. You like Republicans? You can't be anything other than a neo nazi racist white supremacist extremist. You leaning left? Then you have to be a communist shill who wants to tax every remotely financially successful person to death and take all liberties away from everyone ever. It's really tiring.
- Steltek 6y ago
  This argument would have more weight if "the worst" was rightfully repudiated by Republicans instead of reelection, pardons, denialism, or blistering conspiracy theories. There are outrageous acts on both sides but only the Left consistently calls out the missteps of their own.
  - codegrappler 6y ago
    Like the riots?
    - faitswulff 6y ago
      You mean the property damage and looting that was repeatedly repudiated by the left, as GP pointed out? Yes.
      - arkis22 6y ago
        it wasnt though

curious_fella1 6y ago

One loud, crazy voice doesn't represent the majority.

nate_meurer 6y ago
Normally I'd agree, but in this case, the loud crazy voice is often Trump himself.
pnw_hazor 6y ago
She is not alone.

humanrebar 6y ago

If intransigence is justified by any violent idiocy among the opposition, we will have mass intransigence indefinitely. We cannot reasonably ask for peaceful daytime demonstrations to be considered separately from after-sundown looting and arson if we aren't willing to make likewise considerations.

faitswulff 6y ago
The difference is that the police captain can shoot you and me and get away with it.

manigandham 6y ago

If you go hunting for extreme examples then you'll certainly find them, on every side. Or perhaps we should stop cherry-picking the extremes as representative of all the people.

enraged_camel 6y ago
On the contrary, this type of "both side-ism" is exactly what sabotages honest discussion. The sides are not anywhere near equal in their willingness to use violence to achieve their means. One side has leftists rioting in the streets and looting storefronts. The other side has conservatives plowing their cars through liberal protestors at full speed and murdering them. One side has leftists setting police cars on fire. The other side has conservatives plotting to kidnap and/or murder mayors and governors. One side has leftists throwing milkshakes at so-called "independent journalists". The other side has political candidates bodyslamming real journalists.
- manigandham 6y ago
  No, it's the concept of "sides" that sabotages honest discussion. It's just extremists who are very loud and amplified by others. They do not represent the majority in the middle. There is no group with better humans. It's a failure of context, nuance and understanding if you think so.
  - catlifeonmars 6y ago
    Exactly. Side-ism — or the uncritical oversimplification of the complexity that is American politics and American demographics - is about as useful as racism. Honestly, what’s it good for?
  - XorNot 6y ago
    No there absolute is: it's the side which hasn't ongoingly and repeatedly attempted to murder members of the other. Property is not lives, and your "but the middle!" is meaningless: the middle if it exists is a group of people going "well, someone's dead, but also what about that vacant Wendy's?"
  - shadowgovt 6y ago
    There may be no group with better humans, but ideologies can be better or worse.

syshum 6y ago

While you found one crazy person... How about the high level democrats literally creating a list of "Trump Supporters" with the express purpose of "ejecting them from polite society" aka canceling them socially, and economically,

arentyouspecial 6y ago
More like we decided we don’t care for their shitty ideas or opinions.
- syshum 6y ago
  So you admit that you are completely unable and unwilling to consider any argument or information that conflicts with your world views If I do not agree with you, if I have a outlook on the world that is different from your then I have "shitty ideas or opinions" and thus is ethical, moral and just of cancel me economically and socially? So you are admitting that the Democrats do no really want reconciliation or compromise, they want victory and subjection of their perceived enemies (republicans, conservatives, libertarians) Thanks for clearing that up for us
nathannecro 6y ago
Goodness me. I hate talking politics but let's not make the mistake of getting into false equivalency. The Trump presidency has gathered a cesspool of supporters and sycophants who: 1. Have at best maintained prosperity and growth (mostly by keeping interest rates low and patching economic holes with deregulations and/or short-term protectionist policies). The BBC(1) had a nice collection of charts showing -- essentially -- that the rate of change in the well-being of the economy did not deviate when Trump took office. 2. Have increased spending and absolutely ballooned our national debt (see "short-term" policies) (2). While I do not mind spending money to solve structural economic problems (automation removing jobs, the transition from polluting industries to cleaner ones), much of the funding went to solve problems the Trump administration created themselves! 3. Have absolutely demonstrated a complete dearth of moral and ethical values. This is an absolute killer in my book. From forcibly creating orphans (3) or allowing an enemy state to promote the hunting of American soldiers, it's clear that the administration has no moral qualms regarding their actions. When it comes to COVID, the United States has a per capita COVID death rate that is insanely disproportionate when compared with other developed countries. The US has a per capita COVID death rate that is 66x Japan, 18x Australia, and almost 6x Germany. While the rallying cry has been, "But saving the economy is more important than saving lives!", this is absolutely unsupported by data. The delta in GDP between the end of Q1 and the end of Q3 is roughly a loss of 9% in the United States (5). In Germany, that same period of time resulted only in a loss of 2.5% (6). The willful spread of lies and misinformation have caused much death not only in the United States, but in many other countries which historically have looked towards the United States as being a bastion of truth and information. Trump and his cronies have enabled many other leaders around the world by normalizing an unethical and immoral response to a crisis. Beyond the reduction of some federal taxes (which has admittedly saved me some money) and a stronger stance against IP theft (which I think is better for the United States but perhaps worse for the world), I struggle to come up with cases in which the Trump administration has improved America, the American people, or society as a whole in any meaningful manner. For four years, Trump and his assembled cohort causing a regression in American ethics, integrity, world standing, and education. They have done this intentionally. From the beginning, they've approached the governance of America like a popularity contest where the end goal was to satisfy sycophants and fill their own pockets. I am not calling all who support Trump racist or evil, but Trump and many of those he associates with have absolutely promoted hate, demonstrated unethical behavior, and upheld the highest levels of greed and degeneracy. If these people were my acquaintances in my personal or business life, you would not fault me for "ejecting" them from my life. I would imagine that if you had a friend who cheered when five hundred children were not only ripped from their families, but then kept in fear and isolation away from anyone they knew, and then were told that they would never see their parents again...you would not want to be associated with them at all. The fact of the matter is that there were people who did cheer this type of degenerate behavior and there were people that actively enabled the destruction of American integrity. Those people should absolutely be excised from "polite society" as pariahs to set an example so that others do not tread on the path of wickedness. Becoming socially undesirable is not even in the same realm as enabling the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans, allowing American soldiers to be killed, accepting foreign bribes to influence the American government, creating concentration camps where children are made to be orphans, fanning the flames of racial tensions, and so on. Sources: 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430 2: https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401 https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-de... 3: https://coppercourier.com/story/545-children-trump/ https://coppercourier.com/story/545-children-trump/ 4: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-pandemics-effect-on-the-widening-gap-in-mortality-rate-between-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-pandemics-effe... 5: https://www.bea.gov/news/2020/gross-domestic-product-third-quarter-2020-advance-estimate#:~:text=Real%20gross%20domestic%20product%20(GDP,the%20Bureau%20of%20Economic%20Analysis https://www.bea.gov/news/2020/gross-domestic-product-third-q.... 6: https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth#:~:text=GDP%20Growth%20Rate%20in%20Germany,the%20second%20quarter%20of%202020 https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth#:~:text=GDP%....

dcolkitt 6y ago

One of the most destructive trends in recent political discourse is the tendency to seek out the worst, rather than the best, arguments from the opposing side. Instead of engaging with articles from The National Review or Mother Jones, we just dunk on the most outrageous morons and trolls we can scour on Twitter or Reddit.

ckaygusu 6y ago
Yup, this is exactly the problem with modern politics. Take the absolute worst of the other side and project it to all of them. You like Republicans? You can't be anything other than a neo nazi racist white supremacist extremist. You leaning left? Then you have to be a communist shill who wants to tax every remotely financially successful person to death and take all liberties away from everyone ever. It's really tiring.
Steltek 6y ago
This argument would have more weight if "the worst" was rightfully repudiated by Republicans instead of reelection, pardons, denialism, or blistering conspiracy theories. There are outrageous acts on both sides but only the Left consistently calls out the missteps of their own.
- codegrappler 6y ago
  Like the riots?
  - faitswulff 6y ago
    You mean the property damage and looting that was repeatedly repudiated by the left, as GP pointed out? Yes.
    - arkis22 6y ago
      it wasnt though