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Apple has always wanted to block "browser" type apps. If it can be used to install or view hundreds of other apps, then it's probably not a good fit for the iOS

Apple has always wanted to block "browser" type apps. If it can be used to install or view hundreds of other apps, then it's probably not a good fit for the iOS garden. We willingly give Apple money under this premise. I'm not sure why this is surprising.

_hao 6y ago
How do apps like WeChat are allowed then? There are entire platforms and mini-programs inside.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  Section 5.1.2(iii) of the App Store Review Guidelines has a special exception for Apps with a 1 billion install base from a country where the government doesn't give two hoots about your App Store Review Guidelines.
  - andreasley 6y ago
    That's simply not true. To the people saying it's obviously a joke: The App Store Review Guidelines have become huge and I wouldn't have been surprised to find something like this in there, although not in these exact words. Actually, I wish the App Store Review Guidelines WOULD state exceptions like the one mentioned. At least that would be transparent.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      It's not a real guideline, they were making a joke. But it's true that Apple risks alienating their iOS user base there if they try to ban WeChat now.
    - chottocharaii 6y ago
      Seems obvious that was a joke
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    The actual guideline made for WeChat is 4.7: > Apps may contain or run code that is not embedded in the binary (e.g. HTML5-based games, bots, etc.), as long as code distribution isn’t the main purpose of the app, the code is not offered in a store or store-like interface, and provided that the software (1) is free or purchased using in-app purchase; (2) only uses capabilities available in a standard WebKit view (e.g. it must open and run natively in Safari without modifications or additional software); your app must use WebKit and JavaScript Core to run third-party software and should not attempt to extend or expose native platform APIs to third-party software; (3) is offered by developers that have joined the Apple Developer Program and signed the Apple Developer Program License Agreement; (4) does not provide access to real money gaming, lotteries, or charitable donations; (5) adheres to the terms of these App Review Guidelines (e.g. does not include objectionable content); and (6) does not offer digital goods or services for sale. Upon request, you must provide an index of software and metadata available in your app. It must include Apple Developer Program Team IDs for the providers of the software along with a URL which App Review can use to confirm that the software complies with the requirements above.
- manigandham 6y ago
  WeChat didn't start like that. Now they have the network effects to stay because Apple doesn't want to risk the backlash of the China market.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  Presumably they feed Apple money by the billions.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    they don't need to feed them anything. A phone in China without access to Wechat is metal junk. It's actually WeChat which has the dominant position on that front.
- ssvss 6y ago
  Apple seems to have modified the rules just enough so that apps like WeChat can operate, From https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1137321.shtml https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1137321.shtml > According to a statement the WeChat Team sent to the Global Times, the pulldown menu has been a function that WeChat always has and has always tried to optimize. > But the team stressed that the pulldown menu only provides WeChat users a convenient way to open the Mini Programs that they have used before. The menu does not recommend new Mini Programs to the users, neither does WeChat have a commercial model based on centralized traffic distribution like app stores. Also changes to their Payment rules, https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/16/16896008/apple-wechat-tips-agreement https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/16/16896008/apple-wechat-tip...
- saltedonion 6y ago
  Let’s face it. It has never been about fairness. Only profit maximization.
burnte 6y ago
Then it should also ban other browsers, movie streaming apps, music streaming apps, ebook readers, etc. Be consistent.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dpkonofa 6y ago
  It is consistent. There are fundamental differences between the apps you've mentioned and these game-streaming apps that clearly delineate why those are approved and why these are not.
  - sp332 6y ago
    I'll bite - what's the difference between a movie-streaming app and a game-streaming app?
    - bigbubba 6y ago
      There is none. Either can have content that would offend Apple's conservative American sensibilities, though I'd wager that more movies would than games. If Apple thought they could get away with content policing movies, they surely would.
    - xnyan 6y ago
      Netflix is bigger than the nascent game streaming market and more apple users (including me) expect to be able to use it. If they told netflix "we have to approve each movie and tv show on your service, and possibly take revenue from you on a per-video basis", then netflix would walk and would be smart to do so because it's pretty likely apple would come up the loser in that fight. Again, huge number of users, existing expectation of the status quo (i can stream from netflix on my device) from those users. Game streaming is new and not yet established to the general user base. Apple is in a huge position of power relative to game streaming and is using that to get the best possible deal. As a devoted apple product user, these kind of behaviors really worry me. I understand that this is normal behavior for powerful organizations, but apple is making the user experience worse for money. I don't see how that ends well.
canofbars 6y ago
>We willingly give Apple money under this premise. There are not enough competitors for this to actually be something you can choose. I use and will continue to use iphones because I care about privacy and updates. That doesn't mean I like what is happening with this case.
- spicybright 6y ago
  I agree but you're supporting the practice financially.
- marketingPro 6y ago
  Apple does not support Privacy. See PRISM
vaccinator 6y ago
You cant even bring your own browser engine to iphone
hrktb 6y ago
The situation is more complex. For instance I have a subscription to a magazine publisher that pushes me any new issues of several magazines as they are published (roughly 10 to 20 every months). And the content of the subscription is not fixed, for a few months some magazines appeared, and other disappeared. Some of the content is gore/mature, while not straight porn. The catch of course is that the subscription payment goes to Apple, and only Apple (no concurrent web version exists), and additional in-app purchases also go through Apple, no bypassing. There is also audio subscriptions apps working on the same principles. The one I follow has been there for years. Basically, as long as Apple gets a decent cut the "browser" nature or fine grain policing content doesn't seem to matter much.
- ineedasername 6y ago
  That sounds good, what's the magazine app?
  - hrktb 6y ago
    Kadokawa’s manga pre-publishing app, comic days (japanese only): https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AFdays/id1288398252 https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3... For those interested there is the equivalent for Jump comics and a few others (Pixiv etc.), those must also be available as web only subscriptions.
    - ineedasername 6y ago
      Thanks!
immigrantsheep 6y ago
But I can play games from my browser. And I can play games that are available through the Facebook app.
- pmontra 6y ago
  Facebook or WeChat, Apple can't ban them. Game streaming, they can. Maybe they'll change the rule in 1, 2 or 5 years if game streaming becomes so big to move enough of their customers to Android. Then they'll claim they're introducing an incredible thing. Remember copy and paste on the iPhone 3 GS? https://www.idownloadblog.com/2009/07/17/iphone-3gs-stupid-tv-ad-copy-paste/ https://www.idownloadblog.com/2009/07/17/iphone-3gs-stupid-t...
  - immigrantsheep 6y ago
    The can ban them. They don't want to. They could just as easy say "we'll remove the Facebook app until you remove the gaming part". Same for WeChat.
    - pmontra 6y ago
      Of course Apple doesn't want to. Both them and Apple know that without WeChat Apple won't sell any iPhone in China and without Facebook no iPhone in the western world.

_hao 6y ago

How do apps like WeChat are allowed then? There are entire platforms and mini-programs inside.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
Section 5.1.2(iii) of the App Store Review Guidelines has a special exception for Apps with a 1 billion install base from a country where the government doesn't give two hoots about your App Store Review Guidelines.
- andreasley 6y ago
  That's simply not true. To the people saying it's obviously a joke: The App Store Review Guidelines have become huge and I wouldn't have been surprised to find something like this in there, although not in these exact words. Actually, I wish the App Store Review Guidelines WOULD state exceptions like the one mentioned. At least that would be transparent.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    It's not a real guideline, they were making a joke. But it's true that Apple risks alienating their iOS user base there if they try to ban WeChat now.
  - chottocharaii 6y ago
    Seems obvious that was a joke
- saagarjha 6y ago
  The actual guideline made for WeChat is 4.7: > Apps may contain or run code that is not embedded in the binary (e.g. HTML5-based games, bots, etc.), as long as code distribution isn’t the main purpose of the app, the code is not offered in a store or store-like interface, and provided that the software (1) is free or purchased using in-app purchase; (2) only uses capabilities available in a standard WebKit view (e.g. it must open and run natively in Safari without modifications or additional software); your app must use WebKit and JavaScript Core to run third-party software and should not attempt to extend or expose native platform APIs to third-party software; (3) is offered by developers that have joined the Apple Developer Program and signed the Apple Developer Program License Agreement; (4) does not provide access to real money gaming, lotteries, or charitable donations; (5) adheres to the terms of these App Review Guidelines (e.g. does not include objectionable content); and (6) does not offer digital goods or services for sale. Upon request, you must provide an index of software and metadata available in your app. It must include Apple Developer Program Team IDs for the providers of the software along with a URL which App Review can use to confirm that the software complies with the requirements above.
manigandham 6y ago
WeChat didn't start like that. Now they have the network effects to stay because Apple doesn't want to risk the backlash of the China market.
Aeolun 6y ago
Presumably they feed Apple money by the billions.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  they don't need to feed them anything. A phone in China without access to Wechat is metal junk. It's actually WeChat which has the dominant position on that front.
ssvss 6y ago
Apple seems to have modified the rules just enough so that apps like WeChat can operate, From https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1137321.shtml https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1137321.shtml > According to a statement the WeChat Team sent to the Global Times, the pulldown menu has been a function that WeChat always has and has always tried to optimize. > But the team stressed that the pulldown menu only provides WeChat users a convenient way to open the Mini Programs that they have used before. The menu does not recommend new Mini Programs to the users, neither does WeChat have a commercial model based on centralized traffic distribution like app stores. Also changes to their Payment rules, https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/16/16896008/apple-wechat-tips-agreement https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/16/16896008/apple-wechat-tip...
saltedonion 6y ago
Let’s face it. It has never been about fairness. Only profit maximization.

burnte 6y ago

Then it should also ban other browsers, movie streaming apps, music streaming apps, ebook readers, etc. Be consistent.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
dpkonofa 6y ago
It is consistent. There are fundamental differences between the apps you've mentioned and these game-streaming apps that clearly delineate why those are approved and why these are not.
- sp332 6y ago
  I'll bite - what's the difference between a movie-streaming app and a game-streaming app?
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    There is none. Either can have content that would offend Apple's conservative American sensibilities, though I'd wager that more movies would than games. If Apple thought they could get away with content policing movies, they surely would.
  - xnyan 6y ago
    Netflix is bigger than the nascent game streaming market and more apple users (including me) expect to be able to use it. If they told netflix "we have to approve each movie and tv show on your service, and possibly take revenue from you on a per-video basis", then netflix would walk and would be smart to do so because it's pretty likely apple would come up the loser in that fight. Again, huge number of users, existing expectation of the status quo (i can stream from netflix on my device) from those users. Game streaming is new and not yet established to the general user base. Apple is in a huge position of power relative to game streaming and is using that to get the best possible deal. As a devoted apple product user, these kind of behaviors really worry me. I understand that this is normal behavior for powerful organizations, but apple is making the user experience worse for money. I don't see how that ends well.

canofbars 6y ago

>We willingly give Apple money under this premise. There are not enough competitors for this to actually be something you can choose. I use and will continue to use iphones because I care about privacy and updates. That doesn't mean I like what is happening with this case.

spicybright 6y ago
I agree but you're supporting the practice financially.
marketingPro 6y ago
Apple does not support Privacy. See PRISM

vaccinator 6y ago

You cant even bring your own browser engine to iphone

hrktb 6y ago

The situation is more complex. For instance I have a subscription to a magazine publisher that pushes me any new issues of several magazines as they are published (roughly 10 to 20 every months). And the content of the subscription is not fixed, for a few months some magazines appeared, and other disappeared. Some of the content is gore/mature, while not straight porn. The catch of course is that the subscription payment goes to Apple, and only Apple (no concurrent web version exists), and additional in-app purchases also go through Apple, no bypassing. There is also audio subscriptions apps working on the same principles. The one I follow has been there for years. Basically, as long as Apple gets a decent cut the "browser" nature or fine grain policing content doesn't seem to matter much.

ineedasername 6y ago
That sounds good, what's the magazine app?
- hrktb 6y ago
  Kadokawa’s manga pre-publishing app, comic days (japanese only): https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3%82%AFdays/id1288398252 https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9F%E3%83%83%E3... For those interested there is the equivalent for Jump comics and a few others (Pixiv etc.), those must also be available as web only subscriptions.
  - ineedasername 6y ago
    Thanks!

immigrantsheep 6y ago

But I can play games from my browser. And I can play games that are available through the Facebook app.

pmontra 6y ago
Facebook or WeChat, Apple can't ban them. Game streaming, they can. Maybe they'll change the rule in 1, 2 or 5 years if game streaming becomes so big to move enough of their customers to Android. Then they'll claim they're introducing an incredible thing. Remember copy and paste on the iPhone 3 GS? https://www.idownloadblog.com/2009/07/17/iphone-3gs-stupid-tv-ad-copy-paste/ https://www.idownloadblog.com/2009/07/17/iphone-3gs-stupid-t...
- immigrantsheep 6y ago
  The can ban them. They don't want to. They could just as easy say "we'll remove the Facebook app until you remove the gaming part". Same for WeChat.
  - pmontra 6y ago
    Of course Apple doesn't want to. Both them and Apple know that without WeChat Apple won't sell any iPhone in China and without Facebook no iPhone in the western world.