11 ms·

Jira on premises end of life starts feb 2021

163 points by flower-giraffe 6y ago

ComputerGuru 6y ago
They’re really giving the middle finger to everyone that pushed Jira to the top, huh? At the same time, it’s sad to see another self-hosted solution bite the dust in exchange for a more lucrative MRR cash cow for its makers. Favorite self-hosted alternatives? Bonus points if they can import from Jira preserving issue numbers?
- otabdeveloper4 6y ago
  We migrated to YouTrack. Ticks both boxes.
- cabraca 6y ago
  We are using https://www.taiga.io/ https://www.taiga.io/ Its also Open Source (AGPL-3.0) https://github.com/taigaio https://github.com/taigaio
  - serial_dev 6y ago
    How is their platform on mobile? It's web only, right? Push Notifications? Thanks for the info!
- gravypod 6y ago
  I'm pushing for us to try GitLab issues since we only really use epics + tickets from Jira and we already pay for premium GitLab.
- mrweasel 6y ago
  The problem is that Jira is many different thing, and have as many uses as they have customers. I doubt that there are two identical Jira installations in the world. I also think that this is the true reason why Atlassian is doing this. The complexity of Jira has become to much, so now they will fix the problem by forcing smaller customers into a more defined workflow, while ensuring that those who require customization are also able to pay for training and consultance.
  - ComputerGuru 6y ago
    They already split (self-hosted) Jira into a few different “streams” or flavors with different features/pricing and dramatically different out-of-the-box configurations and workflows.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  > Favorite self-hosted alternatives? Why not use Phabricator?
  - ppezaris 6y ago
    i talk to 10 dev teams a week. nobody seems to be using it, other than facebook of course.
    - xorcist 6y ago
      The Wikimedia project and some other high profile projects use it. I did a pretty thorough evaluation once which included Phrabricator, it came out very well, especially the work flow around code review. It wasn't chosen for unrelated reasons. I don't know why it isn't more popular than it is. It seems to be very mature, certainly better than a lot of tools that organizations pay good money for.
      - plorkyeran 6y ago
        There's no one pushing phrabricator. No marketing means that most of the people picking a tool to use have never even heard of it, and it's not really something that a single developer can adopt and then champion internally.
    - ComputerGuru 6y ago
      FreeBSD is probably one of the most visible users of Phabricator.
    - vhbit 6y ago
      Well, happy users since around 2015 (?). There is a catch though - we use it only as a code review platform. It always seemed to be focused on that part more than in any other. I'm not saying everything else is bad, it just a gut feeling that code review always got the maximum attention. And another catch is that it seems they lost their momentum even in this area. I recall times when we waited for weekly status update to see if there is something we'd have as excuse for an upgrade. Now it's even not a weekly update and speed of development seems to be slow.
alkonaut 6y ago
Among the contenders, it seems this is the trend. Microsoft’s DevOps Server is barely getting any updates compared to their cloud offering and seems deliberately held back in order to make customers switch. Maintaining the on-prem use case for huge web+db apps is becoming too expensive as fewer and fewer customers use it.
- otabdeveloper4 6y ago
  > ...as fewer and fewer customers use it Somehow I doubt that customer preference is the reason. Atlassian just wants to be the next Oracle; their self-hosted version now starts at $40000 per year.
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    If there is a good cloud offering then some customers will want to use it. It’s convenient, after all. Even if it’s just say 50% preference, it means you are maintaining on-prem for half as many. Whether they drive people off on-prem by raising costs or people leave because costs are raised isn’t really an interesting distinction, it’s the two sides of the same coin.
    - otabdeveloper4 6y ago
      The could version isn't really an option for serious customers.
      - alkonaut 6y ago
        Serious in what sense?
        otabdeveloper4 6y ago
        "Serious" as in "I don't want to store my files in some random cloud". Jira is, among other things, a document storage solution. Security aside, at the minimum most people would like to be able to back up and access their critical files.
dfabulich 6y ago
This isn't an EOL for on-prem JIRA. It's a price increase. They used to offer two on-prem products, "Server" and "Data Center," and now they'll only offer "Data Center," which comes at a higher price. (They're also raising the price of Data Center.)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- MuffinFlavored 6y ago
  if it's on-prem, can't you just edit it to not phone home?
  - looperhacks 6y ago
    You'd need to reverse-engineer the built java files, which probably isn't so easy and that a company will do this
    - tinus_hn 6y ago
      Can’t you just firewall it? I imagine you’d lose support though.
      - rtkwe 6y ago
        Depends on what kind of check it's doing. I doubt it fails open and if it does you're violating the license and open to big damages from Atlassian.
        UnlockedSecrets 6y ago
        I imagine reverse engineering it to not phone home would violate the license in the same way.
        rtkwe 6y ago
pachico 6y ago
I'm forced to work with it on daily basis and it makes my life more miserable. I just wish it wasn't the defacto standard and CTOs started to get fired for choosing it. That's how much I like it.
- hedora 6y ago
  I felt that way about Jira while I was using it. The new job uses an in-house thing that they scraped together in the ‘90s. It’s much worse than Jira.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  Jira isn't bad but for it to not suck it has to be do most of the following. Be consistently used by everyone in a similar way using the same basic approach. Have a lightweight workflow setup. Be usefully integrated with confluence. Not be used as a tool to punish Devs. Last place used it to do the opposite of above, new place doesn't, same tool totally different outcome. I don't mind it but it's very flexibility leads people to keep changing the workflow to fix the problem rather than addressing the problem. Which is as always, unclear priorities, unclear requirements.
  - mekoka 6y ago
    So in order for it to be good, it needs to be <insert your long Santa Claus list here>. Basically, it sucks.
    - noir_lord 6y ago
      I can hit a nail with a hammer, I can hit my thumb with a hammer in neither case does the hammer suck.
      - cheschire 6y ago
        Yes and now you can’t own the hammer, you have to call a cloud provider to bring you one each time you need to use it, assuming your hammer subscription is paid up.
simon04 6y ago
Atlassian's new strategy has been discussed three weeks ago in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24805748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24805748
l3s2d 6y ago
What's the future of enterprise self-hosting? Cloud offerings that hook into your existing IAM are really good these days. In fact, even the IAM can be off-prem (Okta). It relieves the maintenance and upgrade burden significantly. Yet, open source + self-hostable services have found a niche. Many organizations can't use off-prem for anything remotely sensitive, so they turn to software like GitLab and Mattermost. Interestingly, I have noticed that these self-hosted services broaden their scope to incorporate functionality that might be covered by another service, to reduce said on-prem maintenance burden.
theonemind 6y ago
I hope this somehow results in my company abandoning jira.
- lucb1e 6y ago
  The backdoor law also affects them but I haven't noticed even the more paranoid places choosing more wisely yet.
cpach 6y ago
Does anyone know about the future for Confluence?
- _a1_ 6y ago
  If not native Markdown support (without hacky macros), then I hope it's death.
- castillar76 6y ago
  Same thing: EoL for new on-prem Server licenses in Feb 2021, then end of support for on-prem Server in 2024. Only Cloud or Data Center going forward—-they said that’s their (horrendous) strategy for all their stuff. Time to find a replacement for that one, too. Ugh.
  - Noumenon72 6y ago
    Confluence going on cloud is much worse than Jira, as working with Confluence depends on multiple frequent successive edits whereas Jira is usually just "visit one page, do one task". On-prem Confluence is as good as working in Microsoft Word -- a desktop application experience -- while Cloud is like working in Windows 3.1, with a little hourglass cursor to wait for between every action you take. I'm glad I never migrated my notes to Confluence. Also, they're going to lose secure government contracts with this, because Data Center is way above the size of a project team.
mrweasel 6y ago
While we’ll just use the data center version, we have customers who will be forced to abandon Jira due to legal or contractual requirements, because they only require maybe 5 or 10 licenses, but can’t use the cloud version. I have to assume that Atlassian have some internal number regarding how many customers they expect to lose.
znpy 6y ago
I used to like jira when we had jira on prem. Now i'm filled with rage whenever i use jira cloud. It's unbearably slow. Besides that, it often happens that the text area that I just clicked lost focus somehow, i start typing, AND JIRA STARTS DOING STUFF. I don't know all the shortcuts so i don't even know what I just did. WTF Jira?
- laumars 6y ago
  This happens to me all the time too. Sometimes it’s genuine user error (I have Firefox focused instead of an Slack or $TERM) and sometimes it’s the UI being glitchy, but each time I get a sudden moment of dread as I see the page updating in seemingly random ways. Whoever thought hotkeys without modifier keys we’re a good thing needs to be taken back to UI/UX school and retaught the basics of predictable interfaces.
- stingraycharles 6y ago
  We noticed the cloud offering became consistently worse over time for the past two or three years. Just last week we switched to Clubhouse and while it’s certainly much more limited, it’s at least an order of magnitude faster than JIRA and they really seem to care about the UX.
  - znpy 6y ago
    I never took web ui performance seriously as a topic until I started using Jira cloud.
  - nyi 6y ago
    We switched to clubhouse a few years ago. It is snappy and the UI is really nice. I particularly liked how clubhouse drives backlog curation as a largest block to smallest block. At the time, this was way ahead of JIRA. I found the team at clubhouse to be awesome too - responsive and transparent. Ultimately we went back to JIRA because clubhouse thought differently about agile workflow than we do. At the time, clubhouse didn't support sprints other than by adding labels - but the reports didn't reflect the sprint temporal boundaries. We found it really hard to create things like a view on sprint velocity. We also didn't agree with their view on what a team is but I forget the specifics. It wasn't that JIRA is perfect, but it was either less wrong or more right depending on your perspective. I am a fan of the newer Portfolio/Plan functionality in JIRA which I think replicates some of the features I liked about clubhouse, in forcing a large to small PBR, but I don't use the date planning features.
deleted 6y ago
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chris67 6y ago
Based on these prices, any company over a few hundred users was likely already on the Data Center plan which is not discontinued. https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing?tab=self-managed https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing?tab=self-man...
- tehnicaorg 6y ago
  The difference is one-time payment versus price per year.
mschuster91 6y ago
This sucks hardcore. Essentially, Atlassian holds customers with confidentiality requirements for their data hostage - no support after 2024 for on-prem at all. The key thing to remember is that Atlassian is an Australian company, they are bound to Australian laws, their cloud is not in the legal area of the European Union. For anyone who has sensitive information to store, all Atlassian projects just have died, because the vendor cannot be trusted to not abuse their position any more. Hopefully alternatives will be rising, it's badly needed (especially given the ... shoddy state of the code/architecture behind Atlassian projects).
- p_l 6y ago
  Holy Shit, but I somehow forgot that. ... This is going to mean changes in current $DAYJOB, as we are essentially locked to hosting everything in Germany. Hosting in Australia for business unit that isn't there is right out. We will have more contact with AWS China than them at this point, because we are apparently going to have an unit there...
nikanj 6y ago
Atlassian is going full Oracle. Sub-par quality, anti-customer attitude, high prices. I should buy their stocks now, this seems to be a winning strategy in software business.
- mbo 6y ago
  The stock price did spike after they announced this a few weeks ago, so you might be on the money.
kirillzubovsky 6y ago
For anyone who is looking for an alternative, take a look at https://linear.app https://linear.app - I've used it a bunch for side projects and it's snappy and beautiful. I know the founder from our YC batch back in the day, and if anyone is going to create a really thoughtful JIRA replacement, it's these guys. p.s. It's fascinating how long products like Jira end up existing through sheer market penetration. I don't know a single developer who doesn't passionately hate Jira, and yet it is somehow the "standard."
- harikb 6y ago
  Developers hate it, sure. But program and project managers love it for the perceived ability to wrangle and manage the herd
- jhawk28 6y ago
  It doesn't look like linear is available for local server install.
- ivan_gammel 6y ago
  I know plenty of developers who like JIRA and not just developers: we quickly scaled adoption of JIRA to a company-wide setup, used by literally every department in our company for a variety of different processes. From this perspective Linear is not a JIRA replacement. It is a small tool for tracking software projects, but that’s it. JIRA is much more than that.
  - lucb1e 6y ago
    Idk why my company chose it but it's indeed bearable if you just talk to the API and make nice overviews with `jq` instead of trying to use the web interface which will trip you up eight ways from Sunday. I guess I don't hate jira after scripting against it; it's definitely more scriptable than a lot of alternatives.
- _a1_ 6y ago
  It's like deadlines. Developers hate deadlines, but one thing that developers hate more is the lack of them.
kpsnow 6y ago
Ok.. I guess we are dropping JIRA
edoceo 6y ago
I dislike Jira. My team had used Trello for four years. Now GitLab is doing all the things and it's super easy API made it very easy to move stuff and integrate with my CIC and OPS tools.
deleted 6y ago
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dilyevsky 6y ago
This is great news since it’ll probably force a lot of folks out if jira
mjaniczek 6y ago
JIRA Cloud is very slow (we moved from JIRA Server not that long ago). There is about a 5-10 second pause between seeing (server-rendered? I'm unsure) data for an issue and the page actually becoming interactive (ie. me being able to change a sprint or labels or components). I'm running out of my flegmatism. It led me to start writing an Elm client for their API, and although a lot of the features that I'd need for it to become my daily driver is still missing, it's _so much faster_.
- siigna 6y ago
  Couldn't agree more. As much as Atlassian charges it's shameful how undersized their instances seem to be. I've resorted to "Client for Jira" from the guys who did DeskZilla. Neither is "supported" or developed anymore, but still working fine for my day-to-day (searches especially). If there's an unsupported API I haven't found it yet.
fortranfourier 6y ago
Microsoft may have services in the cloud and may be getting rid of macOS office, but they still have on premise Windows and Office. Similarly Oracle will continue to sale on-prem DB. Real products can make real money. If an ISP goes down, company could internally function with on-prem. Don’t take that away for Jira. I love Confluence, but it or Sharepoint could be replaced by a file server if needed. Jira’s not like that. There are too many things it does where it relies on being an extendable and searchable database with a custom workflow. There’s not a hack for that, it’s an essential product. If you can’t afford to manage it being used that way then hire someone to do it.
- rswail 6y ago
  Where did you hear that they "may be getting rid of macOS office"?
j45 6y ago
JIRA cloud is extremely slow and non-performant. I once wrote a script to regularly hit all of my JIRA urls regularly so the aggressive caching features for a paid cloud service didn't punish me.
flower-giraffe 6y ago
Related thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24805748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24805748
mrkeen 6y ago
I've been in a few agile teams and one of the recurring action items to do at standups is to ask "I wonder why Jira's so slow today?"
tomohawk 6y ago
This is great news! My company can't use the cloud offering, so this will finally get us off of jira.
rubyist5eva 6y ago
Switched to YouTrack from Jira and loved it...until there was a reorg and they forced on Github Issues which are just...primitive and nobody but me knows how to use it. FML
jle17 6y ago
Guess my employer is safe with its 10+ years old Jira 4.2...
musicale 6y ago
Adios, Jira.
munchkinship 6y ago
Jira Cloud is slow and expensive, and requires Atlassian Access subscription if you need SSO/2FA. Jira Data Center doesn't get any new features anymore besides administrative back-end things, and is also very expensive. Things look bleak in the Atlassian ecosystem.
beams 6y ago
Can anyone explain why you use on prem Jira over the managed/cloud version?
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Speed (the cloud version is extremely slow and I can't do anything about it, on-prem gives me the option of throwing more hardware at it) and privacy/data protection.
- finnthehuman 6y ago
  Business requirements (usually tracing to contracts or law) to have real stewardship over your data. Not every product domain can operate where they only rent access to the authoritative copy of their records. Or don't have control to acceptance test / rollback the specific versions of the software involved in displaying/modifying those records. In the past I've worked on safety critical software. As a first order approximation: either the local IT department's disaster recovery plan can ensure continuity of all the quality systems' digital records, artifacts and tools, or you don't actually have a quality system.
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  I'm not the one maintaining Jira at our shop, but we've got a number of integrations. FishEye for one but also custom stuff like our customer database (so we can assign customers to issues), and in our build process (issues gets updated with built version automatically). Not sure if those integrations would translate well to the cloud version. There's also something about owning your own data... Besides, I found Jira ok enough speed-wise, but judging from all the comments on HN each time Jira is mentioned, the cloud version seems not fun at all.
Nextgrid 6y ago
I've bought a license for it yesterday because of this. I don't have any use for it at the moment, but there have been many cases where a tool like Jira would've been useful to automate some processes I used to do manually (and those don't warrant the time investment of building a custom webapp), so I'll keep it just in case such a need arises in the future.
Zardoz84 6y ago
Ok... So I'm trying to see what options we have now. We have Jira, Confluence and Fisheye installed on server, plus a free GitLab for code repository. We use FishEye for code revisions (we have multiple repositories and usually changes came across 2 or 3 repos at same time). How integrates Jira Cloud with Fisheye ? I don't see a cloud option for FishEye, so it keeps being on a local server...
boublepop 6y ago
Strange decision. Our organization has several both server and data center deployments, and periodically there is talk about “should we switch to azure devops” where the decision always comes down to stick with JIRA due to organizational momentum. I am certain that this decision from Atlasssian will lead us to fully abandon JIRA Deployments within a year.

They’re really giving the middle finger to everyone that pushed Jira to the top, huh? At the same time, it’s sad to see another self-hosted solution bite the dust in exchange for a more lucrative MRR cash cow for its makers. Favorite self-hosted alternatives? Bonus points if they can import from Jira preserving issue numbers?

otabdeveloper4 6y ago
We migrated to YouTrack. Ticks both boxes.
cabraca 6y ago
We are using https://www.taiga.io/ https://www.taiga.io/ Its also Open Source (AGPL-3.0) https://github.com/taigaio https://github.com/taigaio
- serial_dev 6y ago
  How is their platform on mobile? It's web only, right? Push Notifications? Thanks for the info!
gravypod 6y ago
I'm pushing for us to try GitLab issues since we only really use epics + tickets from Jira and we already pay for premium GitLab.
mrweasel 6y ago
The problem is that Jira is many different thing, and have as many uses as they have customers. I doubt that there are two identical Jira installations in the world. I also think that this is the true reason why Atlassian is doing this. The complexity of Jira has become to much, so now they will fix the problem by forcing smaller customers into a more defined workflow, while ensuring that those who require customization are also able to pay for training and consultance.
- ComputerGuru 6y ago
  They already split (self-hosted) Jira into a few different “streams” or flavors with different features/pricing and dramatically different out-of-the-box configurations and workflows.
zozbot234 6y ago
> Favorite self-hosted alternatives? Why not use Phabricator?
- ppezaris 6y ago
  i talk to 10 dev teams a week. nobody seems to be using it, other than facebook of course.
  - xorcist 6y ago
    The Wikimedia project and some other high profile projects use it. I did a pretty thorough evaluation once which included Phrabricator, it came out very well, especially the work flow around code review. It wasn't chosen for unrelated reasons. I don't know why it isn't more popular than it is. It seems to be very mature, certainly better than a lot of tools that organizations pay good money for.
    - plorkyeran 6y ago
      There's no one pushing phrabricator. No marketing means that most of the people picking a tool to use have never even heard of it, and it's not really something that a single developer can adopt and then champion internally.
  - ComputerGuru 6y ago
    FreeBSD is probably one of the most visible users of Phabricator.
  - vhbit 6y ago
    Well, happy users since around 2015 (?). There is a catch though - we use it only as a code review platform. It always seemed to be focused on that part more than in any other. I'm not saying everything else is bad, it just a gut feeling that code review always got the maximum attention. And another catch is that it seems they lost their momentum even in this area. I recall times when we waited for weekly status update to see if there is something we'd have as excuse for an upgrade. Now it's even not a weekly update and speed of development seems to be slow.

alkonaut 6y ago

Among the contenders, it seems this is the trend. Microsoft’s DevOps Server is barely getting any updates compared to their cloud offering and seems deliberately held back in order to make customers switch. Maintaining the on-prem use case for huge web+db apps is becoming too expensive as fewer and fewer customers use it.

otabdeveloper4 6y ago
> ...as fewer and fewer customers use it Somehow I doubt that customer preference is the reason. Atlassian just wants to be the next Oracle; their self-hosted version now starts at $40000 per year.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  If there is a good cloud offering then some customers will want to use it. It’s convenient, after all. Even if it’s just say 50% preference, it means you are maintaining on-prem for half as many. Whether they drive people off on-prem by raising costs or people leave because costs are raised isn’t really an interesting distinction, it’s the two sides of the same coin.
  - otabdeveloper4 6y ago
    The could version isn't really an option for serious customers.
    - alkonaut 6y ago
      Serious in what sense?
      - otabdeveloper4 6y ago
        "Serious" as in "I don't want to store my files in some random cloud". Jira is, among other things, a document storage solution. Security aside, at the minimum most people would like to be able to back up and access their critical files.

dfabulich 6y ago

This isn't an EOL for on-prem JIRA. It's a price increase. They used to offer two on-prem products, "Server" and "Data Center," and now they'll only offer "Data Center," which comes at a higher price. (They're also raising the price of Data Center.)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
MuffinFlavored 6y ago
if it's on-prem, can't you just edit it to not phone home?
- looperhacks 6y ago
  You'd need to reverse-engineer the built java files, which probably isn't so easy and that a company will do this
  - tinus_hn 6y ago
    Can’t you just firewall it? I imagine you’d lose support though.
    - rtkwe 6y ago
      Depends on what kind of check it's doing. I doubt it fails open and if it does you're violating the license and open to big damages from Atlassian.
      - UnlockedSecrets 6y ago
        I imagine reverse engineering it to not phone home would violate the license in the same way.
        rtkwe 6y ago

pachico 6y ago

I'm forced to work with it on daily basis and it makes my life more miserable. I just wish it wasn't the defacto standard and CTOs started to get fired for choosing it. That's how much I like it.

hedora 6y ago
I felt that way about Jira while I was using it. The new job uses an in-house thing that they scraped together in the ‘90s. It’s much worse than Jira.
noir_lord 6y ago
Jira isn't bad but for it to not suck it has to be do most of the following. Be consistently used by everyone in a similar way using the same basic approach. Have a lightweight workflow setup. Be usefully integrated with confluence. Not be used as a tool to punish Devs. Last place used it to do the opposite of above, new place doesn't, same tool totally different outcome. I don't mind it but it's very flexibility leads people to keep changing the workflow to fix the problem rather than addressing the problem. Which is as always, unclear priorities, unclear requirements.
- mekoka 6y ago
  So in order for it to be good, it needs to be <insert your long Santa Claus list here>. Basically, it sucks.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    I can hit a nail with a hammer, I can hit my thumb with a hammer in neither case does the hammer suck.
    - cheschire 6y ago
      Yes and now you can’t own the hammer, you have to call a cloud provider to bring you one each time you need to use it, assuming your hammer subscription is paid up.

simon04 6y ago

Atlassian's new strategy has been discussed three weeks ago in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24805748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24805748

l3s2d 6y ago

What's the future of enterprise self-hosting? Cloud offerings that hook into your existing IAM are really good these days. In fact, even the IAM can be off-prem (Okta). It relieves the maintenance and upgrade burden significantly. Yet, open source + self-hostable services have found a niche. Many organizations can't use off-prem for anything remotely sensitive, so they turn to software like GitLab and Mattermost. Interestingly, I have noticed that these self-hosted services broaden their scope to incorporate functionality that might be covered by another service, to reduce said on-prem maintenance burden.

theonemind 6y ago

I hope this somehow results in my company abandoning jira.

lucb1e 6y ago
The backdoor law also affects them but I haven't noticed even the more paranoid places choosing more wisely yet.

cpach 6y ago

Does anyone know about the future for Confluence?

_a1_ 6y ago
If not native Markdown support (without hacky macros), then I hope it's death.
castillar76 6y ago
Same thing: EoL for new on-prem Server licenses in Feb 2021, then end of support for on-prem Server in 2024. Only Cloud or Data Center going forward—-they said that’s their (horrendous) strategy for all their stuff. Time to find a replacement for that one, too. Ugh.
- Noumenon72 6y ago
  Confluence going on cloud is much worse than Jira, as working with Confluence depends on multiple frequent successive edits whereas Jira is usually just "visit one page, do one task". On-prem Confluence is as good as working in Microsoft Word -- a desktop application experience -- while Cloud is like working in Windows 3.1, with a little hourglass cursor to wait for between every action you take. I'm glad I never migrated my notes to Confluence. Also, they're going to lose secure government contracts with this, because Data Center is way above the size of a project team.

mrweasel 6y ago

While we’ll just use the data center version, we have customers who will be forced to abandon Jira due to legal or contractual requirements, because they only require maybe 5 or 10 licenses, but can’t use the cloud version. I have to assume that Atlassian have some internal number regarding how many customers they expect to lose.

znpy 6y ago

I used to like jira when we had jira on prem. Now i'm filled with rage whenever i use jira cloud. It's unbearably slow. Besides that, it often happens that the text area that I just clicked lost focus somehow, i start typing, AND JIRA STARTS DOING STUFF. I don't know all the shortcuts so i don't even know what I just did. WTF Jira?

laumars 6y ago
This happens to me all the time too. Sometimes it’s genuine user error (I have Firefox focused instead of an Slack or $TERM) and sometimes it’s the UI being glitchy, but each time I get a sudden moment of dread as I see the page updating in seemingly random ways. Whoever thought hotkeys without modifier keys we’re a good thing needs to be taken back to UI/UX school and retaught the basics of predictable interfaces.
stingraycharles 6y ago
We noticed the cloud offering became consistently worse over time for the past two or three years. Just last week we switched to Clubhouse and while it’s certainly much more limited, it’s at least an order of magnitude faster than JIRA and they really seem to care about the UX.
- znpy 6y ago
  I never took web ui performance seriously as a topic until I started using Jira cloud.
- nyi 6y ago
  We switched to clubhouse a few years ago. It is snappy and the UI is really nice. I particularly liked how clubhouse drives backlog curation as a largest block to smallest block. At the time, this was way ahead of JIRA. I found the team at clubhouse to be awesome too - responsive and transparent. Ultimately we went back to JIRA because clubhouse thought differently about agile workflow than we do. At the time, clubhouse didn't support sprints other than by adding labels - but the reports didn't reflect the sprint temporal boundaries. We found it really hard to create things like a view on sprint velocity. We also didn't agree with their view on what a team is but I forget the specifics. It wasn't that JIRA is perfect, but it was either less wrong or more right depending on your perspective. I am a fan of the newer Portfolio/Plan functionality in JIRA which I think replicates some of the features I liked about clubhouse, in forcing a large to small PBR, but I don't use the date planning features.

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chris67 6y ago

Based on these prices, any company over a few hundred users was likely already on the Data Center plan which is not discontinued. https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing?tab=self-managed https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing?tab=self-man...

tehnicaorg 6y ago
The difference is one-time payment versus price per year.

mschuster91 6y ago

This sucks hardcore. Essentially, Atlassian holds customers with confidentiality requirements for their data hostage - no support after 2024 for on-prem at all. The key thing to remember is that Atlassian is an Australian company, they are bound to Australian laws, their cloud is not in the legal area of the European Union. For anyone who has sensitive information to store, all Atlassian projects just have died, because the vendor cannot be trusted to not abuse their position any more. Hopefully alternatives will be rising, it's badly needed (especially given the ... shoddy state of the code/architecture behind Atlassian projects).

p_l 6y ago
Holy Shit, but I somehow forgot that. ... This is going to mean changes in current $DAYJOB, as we are essentially locked to hosting everything in Germany. Hosting in Australia for business unit that isn't there is right out. We will have more contact with AWS China than them at this point, because we are apparently going to have an unit there...

nikanj 6y ago

Atlassian is going full Oracle. Sub-par quality, anti-customer attitude, high prices. I should buy their stocks now, this seems to be a winning strategy in software business.

mbo 6y ago
The stock price did spike after they announced this a few weeks ago, so you might be on the money.

kirillzubovsky 6y ago

For anyone who is looking for an alternative, take a look at https://linear.app https://linear.app - I've used it a bunch for side projects and it's snappy and beautiful. I know the founder from our YC batch back in the day, and if anyone is going to create a really thoughtful JIRA replacement, it's these guys. p.s. It's fascinating how long products like Jira end up existing through sheer market penetration. I don't know a single developer who doesn't passionately hate Jira, and yet it is somehow the "standard."

harikb 6y ago
Developers hate it, sure. But program and project managers love it for the perceived ability to wrangle and manage the herd
jhawk28 6y ago
It doesn't look like linear is available for local server install.
ivan_gammel 6y ago
I know plenty of developers who like JIRA and not just developers: we quickly scaled adoption of JIRA to a company-wide setup, used by literally every department in our company for a variety of different processes. From this perspective Linear is not a JIRA replacement. It is a small tool for tracking software projects, but that’s it. JIRA is much more than that.
- lucb1e 6y ago
  Idk why my company chose it but it's indeed bearable if you just talk to the API and make nice overviews with `jq` instead of trying to use the web interface which will trip you up eight ways from Sunday. I guess I don't hate jira after scripting against it; it's definitely more scriptable than a lot of alternatives.
_a1_ 6y ago
It's like deadlines. Developers hate deadlines, but one thing that developers hate more is the lack of them.

kpsnow 6y ago

Ok.. I guess we are dropping JIRA

edoceo 6y ago

I dislike Jira. My team had used Trello for four years. Now GitLab is doing all the things and it's super easy API made it very easy to move stuff and integrate with my CIC and OPS tools.

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dilyevsky 6y ago

This is great news since it’ll probably force a lot of folks out if jira

mjaniczek 6y ago

JIRA Cloud is very slow (we moved from JIRA Server not that long ago). There is about a 5-10 second pause between seeing (server-rendered? I'm unsure) data for an issue and the page actually becoming interactive (ie. me being able to change a sprint or labels or components). I'm running out of my flegmatism. It led me to start writing an Elm client for their API, and although a lot of the features that I'd need for it to become my daily driver is still missing, it's _so much faster_.

siigna 6y ago
Couldn't agree more. As much as Atlassian charges it's shameful how undersized their instances seem to be. I've resorted to "Client for Jira" from the guys who did DeskZilla. Neither is "supported" or developed anymore, but still working fine for my day-to-day (searches especially). If there's an unsupported API I haven't found it yet.

fortranfourier 6y ago

Microsoft may have services in the cloud and may be getting rid of macOS office, but they still have on premise Windows and Office. Similarly Oracle will continue to sale on-prem DB. Real products can make real money. If an ISP goes down, company could internally function with on-prem. Don’t take that away for Jira. I love Confluence, but it or Sharepoint could be replaced by a file server if needed. Jira’s not like that. There are too many things it does where it relies on being an extendable and searchable database with a custom workflow. There’s not a hack for that, it’s an essential product. If you can’t afford to manage it being used that way then hire someone to do it.

rswail 6y ago
Where did you hear that they "may be getting rid of macOS office"?

j45 6y ago

JIRA cloud is extremely slow and non-performant. I once wrote a script to regularly hit all of my JIRA urls regularly so the aggressive caching features for a paid cloud service didn't punish me.

flower-giraffe 6y ago

Related thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24805748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24805748

mrkeen 6y ago

I've been in a few agile teams and one of the recurring action items to do at standups is to ask "I wonder why Jira's so slow today?"

tomohawk 6y ago

This is great news! My company can't use the cloud offering, so this will finally get us off of jira.

rubyist5eva 6y ago

Switched to YouTrack from Jira and loved it...until there was a reorg and they forced on Github Issues which are just...primitive and nobody but me knows how to use it. FML

jle17 6y ago

Guess my employer is safe with its 10+ years old Jira 4.2...

musicale 6y ago

Adios, Jira.

munchkinship 6y ago

Jira Cloud is slow and expensive, and requires Atlassian Access subscription if you need SSO/2FA. Jira Data Center doesn't get any new features anymore besides administrative back-end things, and is also very expensive. Things look bleak in the Atlassian ecosystem.

beams 6y ago

Can anyone explain why you use on prem Jira over the managed/cloud version?

Nextgrid 6y ago
Speed (the cloud version is extremely slow and I can't do anything about it, on-prem gives me the option of throwing more hardware at it) and privacy/data protection.
finnthehuman 6y ago
Business requirements (usually tracing to contracts or law) to have real stewardship over your data. Not every product domain can operate where they only rent access to the authoritative copy of their records. Or don't have control to acceptance test / rollback the specific versions of the software involved in displaying/modifying those records. In the past I've worked on safety critical software. As a first order approximation: either the local IT department's disaster recovery plan can ensure continuity of all the quality systems' digital records, artifacts and tools, or you don't actually have a quality system.
magicalhippo 6y ago
I'm not the one maintaining Jira at our shop, but we've got a number of integrations. FishEye for one but also custom stuff like our customer database (so we can assign customers to issues), and in our build process (issues gets updated with built version automatically). Not sure if those integrations would translate well to the cloud version. There's also something about owning your own data... Besides, I found Jira ok enough speed-wise, but judging from all the comments on HN each time Jira is mentioned, the cloud version seems not fun at all.

Nextgrid 6y ago

I've bought a license for it yesterday because of this. I don't have any use for it at the moment, but there have been many cases where a tool like Jira would've been useful to automate some processes I used to do manually (and those don't warrant the time investment of building a custom webapp), so I'll keep it just in case such a need arises in the future.

Zardoz84 6y ago

Ok... So I'm trying to see what options we have now. We have Jira, Confluence and Fisheye installed on server, plus a free GitLab for code repository. We use FishEye for code revisions (we have multiple repositories and usually changes came across 2 or 3 repos at same time). How integrates Jira Cloud with Fisheye ? I don't see a cloud option for FishEye, so it keeps being on a local server...

boublepop 6y ago

Strange decision. Our organization has several both server and data center deployments, and periodically there is talk about “should we switch to azure devops” where the decision always comes down to stick with JIRA due to organizational momentum. I am certain that this decision from Atlasssian will lead us to fully abandon JIRA Deployments within a year.