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How much land does one need to become self sufficient? Let's assume that means producing enough biomass to generate the resources necessary to have a surplus o

How much land does one need to become self sufficient? Let's assume that means producing enough biomass to generate the resources necessary to have a surplus of food or money.

philshem 6y ago
It depends on your growing zone but 10 acres is typically suggested. (There are many opinions so I don’t put one particular source here.)
fogihujy 6y ago
It depends on how you use it, but at least a couple of acres. Potatoes are quite efficient, and rabbits and chickens can pretty much live off left-overs and patches of land that are otherwise unused. That would be a rather boring existence, though. 3-4 acres should be more than enough for the basics for a _small_ family, if you accept to buy the more exotic items from a store, and that you will probably never grow fat.
jcims 6y ago
It's kind of a 'how long is a piece of string' question. You could probably do it on 2-3 acres but you're going to be making sacrifices that you wouldn't need to if you had 10-20. The typical term is 'homesteading' and there are tons of resources for it. My aunt does it and is part of a collective and it's nearly a full time job.
anticodon 6y ago
Thanks to the collapse of the USSR and with help of our inept corrupt leaders (Gorbachev and Yeltsin and their US "friends") destroying all the industry and economy, millions of ex-soviet citizens know exactly how hard it is to become self sufficient. I worked really hard on our family "farm" all my childhood and that's maybe the only thing that helped us survive. Although we did experience hunger from time to time. It's not even a question of land, it's a question of how much work you can put into that land. It's a backbreaking work every day. It's a good option if society collapses and there's no other option to survive. Otherwise, it's just not worth it. Millions of current Russia population hate working on the land because they already have that inoculation from 90s.
- raxxorrax 6y ago
  I think most are targeting the supermarket supported form, where you grow some vegetables and spices on your own. Russia is probably hard land, because most regions have long winters. Our agriculture (Ger) is completely dependent on workers from abroad. If you send the average office worker on a field, he will probably collapse after a day or two. Friends of mine have some chickens and that alone causes so much work everyday... They give away the eggs which is nice for us. Selling them wouldn't even pay for the fuel to transport them anywhere. Same with most other kinds of produce.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    > supermarket supported form "Self sufficient" where you buy things from the supermarket is just greenwashing cosplay. Just like a "self driving" car where you can't take your hands off the steering wheel.
    - raxxorrax 6y ago
      It is, but self sufficiency is nearly impossible. To pay for tools and machines, electricity and water you would need to sell parts of your produce. That is hard if you do not scale up to a level to compete with highly advanced industrial agriculture. Of course you could scrap the electricity and get your water from the nearest river, but I doubt many people would want to put up with that.
      - bluGill 6y ago
        Self sufficiency is possible if you are given 5-10 acres with no taxes. Even then eventually you will need to trade your animals with someone else just so your breeding stock doesn't get inbred too much. Most people wouldn't want true self sufficiency if they could have it. I admire people who "go into the woods" for years (they are generally more hunter/gathers than farmers); but even as introverted as I am, I still like to have a larger group of people around me.
        6y ago
user5994461 6y ago
A quarter of an acre will give you plenty of food to fill multiple freezers for the year. Some vegetables have a very high yield (potato, tomato, carots). Hens/eggs also have a very good yield, most farms used to have hens. It's nowhere near self sufficiency though. The amount and the variety of things you eat today is tremendous and coming from many places, you're not going to cultivate a fraction of that at home. If you're talking bare subsistence, 1-2 acres of wheat should be enough to feed a family in grain/bread.
Dylanfm 6y ago
I prefer to aim for community sufficient, rather than self sufficient. You probably won't do a good job of being entirely self sufficient. A small healthy community could be, or almost.
- wademealing 6y ago
  Historical evidence shows this to be factual.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    Although not at present-day population levels.
fest 6y ago
My relatives who run a farm (some tens of cows, pigs, chickens, various crops for sale and food) do it on I believe around 25 acres of farmland plus a few acres of forest (for firewood). They are able to sustain a family of 5 people (3 grown ups, 2 school age kids) this way, plus hire a few seasonal/part time workers. It does require quite a bit of machinery though- several tractors plus all the attachments (plowing, harvesting, cutting etc).
clemParis 6y ago
How much land does one need? Tolstoï wrote a short story with this title on this topic: https://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/2738/ https://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/2738/
unnouinceput 6y ago
You're asking the wrong crowd. Go talk to an Amish about this, you'll get a lot better answers.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  You might get better answers but probably not optimal ones? I imagine the avoidance of technology leads to inefficiencies that most people would want to avoid. Maybe the permaculture people, or intentional communities that seek to be self-sufficient (as a community); perhaps kibbutzim hold useful knowledge here?
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    Depends on which inefficiency you want to avoid. Do you want to not use modern machinery, or do you want to pay for modern machinery? Each approach has a cost, in different ways.
  - unnouinceput 6y ago
    Amish do not avoid tech, they test it and see pro/cons and then they take a decision if it will get adopted or not. They have a lot of tech enthusiast that will try new tech and then the elders will decide to keep it or not. And they strive for self-sufficiency 100%.
pbhjpbhj 6y ago
This question was addressed on HN recently with much talk of potatoes and how much yield one needs to survive. Might be worth searching.
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
1 acre per person not including oil and grain and fiber.

How much land does one need to become self sufficient? Let's assume that means producing enough biomass to generate the resources necessary to have a surplus of food or money.

philshem 6y ago

It depends on your growing zone but 10 acres is typically suggested. (There are many opinions so I don’t put one particular source here.)

fogihujy 6y ago

It depends on how you use it, but at least a couple of acres. Potatoes are quite efficient, and rabbits and chickens can pretty much live off left-overs and patches of land that are otherwise unused. That would be a rather boring existence, though. 3-4 acres should be more than enough for the basics for a _small_ family, if you accept to buy the more exotic items from a store, and that you will probably never grow fat.

jcims 6y ago

It's kind of a 'how long is a piece of string' question. You could probably do it on 2-3 acres but you're going to be making sacrifices that you wouldn't need to if you had 10-20. The typical term is 'homesteading' and there are tons of resources for it. My aunt does it and is part of a collective and it's nearly a full time job.

anticodon 6y ago

Thanks to the collapse of the USSR and with help of our inept corrupt leaders (Gorbachev and Yeltsin and their US "friends") destroying all the industry and economy, millions of ex-soviet citizens know exactly how hard it is to become self sufficient. I worked really hard on our family "farm" all my childhood and that's maybe the only thing that helped us survive. Although we did experience hunger from time to time. It's not even a question of land, it's a question of how much work you can put into that land. It's a backbreaking work every day. It's a good option if society collapses and there's no other option to survive. Otherwise, it's just not worth it. Millions of current Russia population hate working on the land because they already have that inoculation from 90s.

raxxorrax 6y ago
I think most are targeting the supermarket supported form, where you grow some vegetables and spices on your own. Russia is probably hard land, because most regions have long winters. Our agriculture (Ger) is completely dependent on workers from abroad. If you send the average office worker on a field, he will probably collapse after a day or two. Friends of mine have some chickens and that alone causes so much work everyday... They give away the eggs which is nice for us. Selling them wouldn't even pay for the fuel to transport them anywhere. Same with most other kinds of produce.
- pjc50 6y ago
  > supermarket supported form "Self sufficient" where you buy things from the supermarket is just greenwashing cosplay. Just like a "self driving" car where you can't take your hands off the steering wheel.
  - raxxorrax 6y ago
    It is, but self sufficiency is nearly impossible. To pay for tools and machines, electricity and water you would need to sell parts of your produce. That is hard if you do not scale up to a level to compete with highly advanced industrial agriculture. Of course you could scrap the electricity and get your water from the nearest river, but I doubt many people would want to put up with that.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      Self sufficiency is possible if you are given 5-10 acres with no taxes. Even then eventually you will need to trade your animals with someone else just so your breeding stock doesn't get inbred too much. Most people wouldn't want true self sufficiency if they could have it. I admire people who "go into the woods" for years (they are generally more hunter/gathers than farmers); but even as introverted as I am, I still like to have a larger group of people around me.
      - 6y ago

user5994461 6y ago

A quarter of an acre will give you plenty of food to fill multiple freezers for the year. Some vegetables have a very high yield (potato, tomato, carots). Hens/eggs also have a very good yield, most farms used to have hens. It's nowhere near self sufficiency though. The amount and the variety of things you eat today is tremendous and coming from many places, you're not going to cultivate a fraction of that at home. If you're talking bare subsistence, 1-2 acres of wheat should be enough to feed a family in grain/bread.

Dylanfm 6y ago

I prefer to aim for community sufficient, rather than self sufficient. You probably won't do a good job of being entirely self sufficient. A small healthy community could be, or almost.

wademealing 6y ago
Historical evidence shows this to be factual.
- jfk13 6y ago
  Although not at present-day population levels.

fest 6y ago

My relatives who run a farm (some tens of cows, pigs, chickens, various crops for sale and food) do it on I believe around 25 acres of farmland plus a few acres of forest (for firewood). They are able to sustain a family of 5 people (3 grown ups, 2 school age kids) this way, plus hire a few seasonal/part time workers. It does require quite a bit of machinery though- several tractors plus all the attachments (plowing, harvesting, cutting etc).

clemParis 6y ago

How much land does one need? Tolstoï wrote a short story with this title on this topic: https://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/2738/ https://www.online-literature.com/tolstoy/2738/

unnouinceput 6y ago

You're asking the wrong crowd. Go talk to an Amish about this, you'll get a lot better answers.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
You might get better answers but probably not optimal ones? I imagine the avoidance of technology leads to inefficiencies that most people would want to avoid. Maybe the permaculture people, or intentional communities that seek to be self-sufficient (as a community); perhaps kibbutzim hold useful knowledge here?
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Depends on which inefficiency you want to avoid. Do you want to not use modern machinery, or do you want to pay for modern machinery? Each approach has a cost, in different ways.
- unnouinceput 6y ago
  Amish do not avoid tech, they test it and see pro/cons and then they take a decision if it will get adopted or not. They have a lot of tech enthusiast that will try new tech and then the elders will decide to keep it or not. And they strive for self-sufficiency 100%.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago

This question was addressed on HN recently with much talk of potatoes and how much yield one needs to survive. Might be worth searching.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago

1 acre per person not including oil and grain and fiber.