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If you had access to this wallet how would you actually convert that many bitcoins to hard currency anonymously?
by Element_ 6y ago
If you had access to this wallet how would you actually convert that many bitcoins to hard currency anonymously?
- neom 6y agoVery very very very very slowly using a series of off-shore bank accounts.
- kache_ 6y agomonero
- sbierwagen 6y agoYou couldn't. An easy guess is that every bitcoin mixer is compromised. You could maybe withdraw $100 at a time from bitcoin ATMs, until KYC/AML forces ATM operators to maintain a coin/address blacklist.
- gruez 6y ago>An easy guess is that every bitcoin mixer is compromised there are trustless mixer networks[1]. The bigger problem is that you're going to run out of liquidity. You preferably want to exchange 1B of "dirty" bitcoin for 1B of "clean" bitcoin, not tumble the 1B of bitcoin and get back the same dirty coins. [1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/CoinJoin https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/CoinJoin
- gmadsen 6y agoexchanging to Monaro solves this problem.
- square90 6y agoWith $1B you could start your own mixers and hire people to run them. Or even start your own exchange.
- zucker42 6y agoAnyone you'd hire would be risking breaking the law in the U.S. or some other country, plus you'd have no legal protection if they decided to screw you over.
- ponker 6y agoBuy a container load of heroin, place it with the local kingpin.
- sp332 6y agoIf you're going for the full amount at once, it doesn't even require an on-network transaction. Just send a thumb drive with the wallet on it.
- aserafini 6y agoBut then the recipient doesn’t know if the original owner has made a copy of the key.
- dyingkneepad 6y agoThat won't matter anymore after they transfer it to a wallet they control, like they did today. Will it?
- nerdwaller 6y agoThere can be options, the OpenDime[0] is one that’s intriguing. The owner seeds the entropy before it can be used and the only way to get the private key is to physically (and visibly) alter it. [0] https://opendime.com/ https://opendime.com/
- jfrunyon 6y agoI wonder how difficult it would be to extract the key from the device. Probably not very. I also like how they say "no trust", but in reality, you have to trust them (and their entire supply chain). Edit: from their FAQ: "Can I re-seal after breaking the seal? No. A permanent change is made inside the flash memory of the processor." Oof. Big oof.
- nerdwaller 6y agoIt would be interesting and probably a big deal to test this out, I don’t think I have the chops for it but hope to read about it if you (or anyone else) gives it a shot!
- root_axis 6y agoTrade it for a cryptocurrency with stronger anonymity properties and then slowly launder that through a self-owned digital service that ostensibly accepts cryptocurrency payments or donations.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- unnouinceput 6y agoPrepare crapload of wallets on different exchanges for monero cryptocurrency. Prepare same amount of crapload of wallets for bitcoin as well. Split this new wallet into those bitcoins wallets. Use them to exchange to monero on your most convenient exchanges - preferably outside US so coindesk/Coinbase is out of question here. Use monero mules to mix them with other cryptocurrencies - this is the point where you lose your FBI/NSA tail. Get them out on crapload of hard currency bank around the world. By the time somebody will finish tracking to a single person a century would've passed and you're dead. End of game.
- gruez 6y ago>so coindesk/Coinbase is out of question here coindesk is a blog, not an exchange.
- buryat 6y agoevery exchange is going to ask verification if you want to deal with more than $1k
- lawn 6y agoThere are a bunch of shady exchanges that don't.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y agoCan you name any? I’ve seen this claim repeatedly but never been able to find one myself.
- sp332 6y agoPrivate auction. You wouldn't be anonymous to your broker, but no one else needs to know who you are.
- Scoundreller 6y agoSucks for the buyer to get such tainted coins!
- kobalsky 6y agosomeone who buys millions in crypto in a private auction at a fraction of its price knows what they are getting
- nmlnn 6y agoThey went from being worth $350K to $1B. What currency could you possibly convert them to that is harder than that?
- ojnabieoot 6y agoIf the commodity in question was anything other than Bitcoin nobody would be saying something like that with a straight face. I think “Beanie Baby” is too strong a term for Bitcoin since they are much more “inherently” valuable ($5 of Bitcoin is much more useful than a $5 stuffed animal). Bitcoin will very likely never be worthless. But a large chunk of Bitcoin’s 2020 wealth comes from it being a speculative instrument - as your comment indicates! I hope this dies down eventually but obviously Bitcoin is objectively high-risk. We are still in the first year of a serious recession, and significant political turbulence, and a pandemic. It’s not irrational to put that money into dollars / euros / etc.
- nmlnn 6y agoSpeculation about the (unknowable) future is how we allocate all resources in the present. A lot of people on HN seem to lump the "buy because price is rising" speculators in with the "buy because Bitcoin will become the foundation of the financial internet" speculators. Investors who understand Bitcoin's potential do it an indispensable service. They inform the public (through price information) of that which most of the public is unable or unwilling to figure out on their own: that Bitcoin has tremendous potential to change the world and warrants serious attention, both currently for certain people as a hideable, unconfiscateable, transportable, no-third-party-risk store of wealth and in the future for everyone as a transactional currency (and as the cornerstone of the financial internet).
- jfrunyon 6y agoWhat can you buy with your Bitcoins? Can you pay your rent with them? Can you pay your electric bill, or internet? Can you buy gas? Can you buy groceries?
- 6y ago
- Devils-Avocado 6y agoNegotiate with the Russian Government to cash out in return for anonymity, citizenship and them taking an 80% commission.
- zdkl 6y agoWhat could possibly go wrong trying to negotiate with <any country>'s intelligence/ops departement while being a very disappearable private person!
- Der_Einzige 6y agoAre you claiming that snowden is the owner of these coins????
- nijave 6y agoMoney laundering which people are describing various ways of doing
- Darvon 6y agobisq
- alasdair_ 6y agoThe simplest is probably to make a deal with criminals that have an existing money laundering network. The trick would be avoiding having said criminals simply kidnapping you and forcing you to reveal the keys. Low volume ways would be to use the bitcoin to purchase drugs or other illegal goods by the kilo and sell the drugs the usual way. It's unlikely that the person needs to full billion immediately. Five or ten million a year could be enough for many people and at that kind of level exchanging for monero could work. There is also the option of sending small amounts to thousands of real people's bitcoin wallets (and lots more to wallets you control) and letting those people deal with the FBI first.
- blunte 6y agoBuy a Trump Tower apartment for a grossly inflated price, and offer to pay in bitcoin. If you act quickly, the deal will get done before there's risk of prosecution.
- stock_toaster 6y agoJust ask HSBC[1]! [1]: relatively famous for aiding and abetting money laundering on a large scale. ref: https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/hsbc-moved-vast-sums-of-dirty-money-after-paying-record-laundering-fine/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/hsbc-moved-...
- kls 6y agoI would say wash it thru Monero and then mix it, from there if I were the illicit type I would try to do offline exchanges with gold bugs who are also crypto enthusiast to get it into hard assets. 1 Billion in gold is actually only about a half a semi-load full, it would take some time but assuming you fractured it into a bunch of different monero wallets, you have time on your side. If one get's compromised you take what you have and run. Because it would be safe to assume at that point that there are tools monitoring the chain by state level actors that none of us are privy to. If you are going to live that life paranoia is key.
- kart23 6y agoA crowd sourced cash out. I would never expect to get the full 1 billion dollars, so I'm basically going to offer the bitcoin at half price to whoever wants it, payment being in monero. I'd possibly set the price lower if demand is low, but adjust depending on how demand and monero value fluctuations go. I think people would buy the coins, especially if there's decent publicity and marketing. Frame it as free money for whoever wants it, and I would walk away happy with anything more than $100 million and my anonymity.
- adtac 6y agoCongrats, your advertisement now looks like every scam ever on the internet.
- zdkl 6y agoEver wonder why there are so many of these scams? Even with very low conversion efficiency, it works over time with acceptable safety guarantees for the sell side. See scalped tickets, low cost bus travel & gift cards.
- dorgo 6y ago- take out a loan (or borrow) money - slowly buy bitcoins on exchanges over several years - destroy the wallet with 1B publicly ( I assume here it is possible. I heard of possibility to transfer to reserved/impossible wallets ) - wait a bit for the exchange rate to go up - sell your previously bought bitcoins - pay back the loan Edit: OK, maybe $1B is too small for this scheme to work. But if the wallet would contain say 50% of all bitcoins this would be a possibility.