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I am just worried about all my developer tools (Docker, VMware Fusion, VirtualBox, brew) all breaking switching to ARM.
by nodesocket 6y ago
I am just worried about all my developer tools (Docker, VMware Fusion, VirtualBox, brew) all breaking switching to ARM.
- f6v 6y agoThose will be ok, I’m thinking of R packages I use which build FORTRAN code on installation.
- entropicdrifter 6y agoIf they build on installation, then Apple just needs to make sure they have build tools ready. That's easy pickings compared to porting individual packages or apps.
- mh8h 6y agogcc is not supported on the Apple Silicon yet. So anything that relies on that is going to be an issue.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- easton 6y agoApple demoed Docker and Parallels at the Developer State of the Union, and has written a new Hypervisor.framework for the new Macs. I think it'll be fine (I'll be sure once VirtualBox gets working on it, with the amount of trouble they've had with the new Windows Hypervisor I hope it'll be faster).
- skrtskrt 6y agoDoes any of this mean that Docker for Mac (ARM) will be less of an insane resource hog?
- acdha 6y agoDocker for Mac isn’t on x86 so it seems likely it will continue not to be.
- KnobbleMcKnees 6y agoI thought they'd already confirmed that x86_64 virtualization won't be possible on Silicon? If so that rules out a significant number of development use cases.
- nottorp 6y agoWhat I've been able to find is that Rosetta will run 64 bit Intel apps, but that won't help the likes of Parallels. So there will be no way to run Windows/Intel in a VM? Or even Linux/Intel or older versions of Mac OS for that matter? That's bad.
- snowwrestler 6y agoWhat Apple has said is that you can't run existing x86 virtualization applications on top of Rosetta 2. So you can't take the copy of Parallels you have today and run it on Rosetta 2. Which make sense, since that would be running emulation on top of an emulation--likely to be super slow. Instead, what you will do is get a new version of x86 virtualization applications (like Parallels) that run directly on top of Apple Silicon--in other words, you use them instead of Rosetta 2, not on top of Rosetta 2. That's what easton is talking about, above.
- sgerenser 6y agoX86 virtualization on top of an x86 CPU is a fairly trivial task. Running the same on top of ARM at reasonable speeds is much more difficult. What makes you think Parallels will be able to pull it off anytime soon?
- jack2222 6y agoI'm sure they'll tout some new "Rosetta" feature like they had for the switch from PowerPC to Intel last time
- saagarjha 6y agoThey already have–but not for virtualization, it's just for apps.
- entropicdrifter 6y agoDocker already runs fine on ARM Linux, I can't imagine porting to Apple's ARM flavor of Unix is that much harder
- saagarjha 6y agoThis isn't really how it works. I mean, it won't necessarily be difficult, but having it working on ARM Linux means very little for it working on macOS.
- larkost 6y agoI disagree. On MacOS (x86) Docker runs inside a VM; which is running Linux (since Docker needs Linux kernel features). On the forthcoming ARM version of MacOS, it will need to run a VM, running the ARM version of linux. So having Docker working on the ARM version of linux is a good portion of the work needed to get it to run on ARM MacOS. You still have to get the VM and communications setup done, but Apple has already said they have done much of that work.
- saagarjha 6y agoLinux working on ARM is not new work at all.
- entropicdrifter 6y agoBut setting up a VM to run Linux on ARM on top of MacOS on ARM is new work
- skrtskrt 6y agoIsn’t brew just ruby scripts?
- saagarjha 6y agoYes, but it builds a whole lot of software that does things like hardcode "10.x" as a macOS version number or treat "ARM Darwin" as iPhone.