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> Mac Sales absolutely crushed the number, by an almost 3B beat (9B vs 6B). That is HUGE. I'm eagerly waiting to be an early adopter on their non-Intel laptops

> Mac Sales absolutely crushed the number, by an almost 3B beat (9B vs 6B). That is HUGE. I'm eagerly waiting to be an early adopter on their non-Intel laptops as soon as they come out as well. I'm sure I'm not alone.

mpweiher 6y ago
Particularly if it's a fast + light + long-lasting 12" MacBook revival.
nodesocket 6y ago
I am just worried about all my developer tools (Docker, VMware Fusion, VirtualBox, brew) all breaking switching to ARM.
- f6v 6y ago
  Those will be ok, I’m thinking of R packages I use which build FORTRAN code on installation.
  - entropicdrifter 6y ago
    If they build on installation, then Apple just needs to make sure they have build tools ready. That's easy pickings compared to porting individual packages or apps.
    - mh8h 6y ago
      gcc is not supported on the Apple Silicon yet. So anything that relies on that is going to be an issue.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- easton 6y ago
  Apple demoed Docker and Parallels at the Developer State of the Union, and has written a new Hypervisor.framework for the new Macs. I think it'll be fine (I'll be sure once VirtualBox gets working on it, with the amount of trouble they've had with the new Windows Hypervisor I hope it'll be faster).
  - skrtskrt 6y ago
    Does any of this mean that Docker for Mac (ARM) will be less of an insane resource hog?
    - acdha 6y ago
      Docker for Mac isn’t on x86 so it seems likely it will continue not to be.
  - KnobbleMcKnees 6y ago
    I thought they'd already confirmed that x86_64 virtualization won't be possible on Silicon? If so that rules out a significant number of development use cases.
    - nottorp 6y ago
      What I've been able to find is that Rosetta will run 64 bit Intel apps, but that won't help the likes of Parallels. So there will be no way to run Windows/Intel in a VM? Or even Linux/Intel or older versions of Mac OS for that matter? That's bad.
    - snowwrestler 6y ago
      What Apple has said is that you can't run existing x86 virtualization applications on top of Rosetta 2. So you can't take the copy of Parallels you have today and run it on Rosetta 2. Which make sense, since that would be running emulation on top of an emulation--likely to be super slow. Instead, what you will do is get a new version of x86 virtualization applications (like Parallels) that run directly on top of Apple Silicon--in other words, you use them instead of Rosetta 2, not on top of Rosetta 2. That's what easton is talking about, above.
- jack2222 6y ago
  I'm sure they'll tout some new "Rosetta" feature like they had for the switch from PowerPC to Intel last time
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    They already have–but not for virtualization, it's just for apps.
- entropicdrifter 6y ago
  Docker already runs fine on ARM Linux, I can't imagine porting to Apple's ARM flavor of Unix is that much harder
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    This isn't really how it works. I mean, it won't necessarily be difficult, but having it working on ARM Linux means very little for it working on macOS.
    - larkost 6y ago
      I disagree. On MacOS (x86) Docker runs inside a VM; which is running Linux (since Docker needs Linux kernel features). On the forthcoming ARM version of MacOS, it will need to run a VM, running the ARM version of linux. So having Docker working on the ARM version of linux is a good portion of the work needed to get it to run on ARM MacOS. You still have to get the VM and communications setup done, but Apple has already said they have done much of that work.
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        Linux working on ARM is not new work at all.
        entropicdrifter 6y ago
        But setting up a VM to run Linux on ARM on top of MacOS on ARM is new work
- skrtskrt 6y ago
  Isn’t brew just ruby scripts?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Yes, but it builds a whole lot of software that does things like hardcode "10.x" as a macOS version number or treat "ARM Darwin" as iPhone.
dmix 6y ago
Mind if I ask why? It will take quite some time for everything to be ported. And there will always be the longtail that never will be.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- OldHand2018 6y ago
  I've got a 2017 MBP and am planning to get rid of it before the 4 year keyboard service program ends on it. My iPad Pro has become my default mobile device, so I'd prefer to get something like a Mac Mini and am hoping they have something worth buying. The current Mac Mini is just a hard no at this point.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jamil7 6y ago
  I’ll probably grab a pro machine if they announce one since I’m sitting on a 2013 macbook pro, it still goes great but I’m starting to feel compile times eat up a bit of my day. Most of what I need to work, XCode, Docker and a web browser will be available.
- MuffinFlavored 6y ago
  I use Chrome, Sublime Text, Terminal, WhatsApp, Messages, Skype, Discord, Hex Fiend, Calculator, AnyDesk, Ghidra, and Notes. What would I be waiting for port wise day 1?
hugi 6y ago
You're not alone. My 2019 15" MacBook was damaged beyond repair just before they announced the ARM transition. I decided to wait and I've been programming on a 2012 Mac Mini for the past few months. Amazing machine considering it's age, but I'm very ready for a new one.
samatman 6y ago
I have a rule of thumb with Apple: get the fourth iteration of any new offering. I don't always apply it, admittedly: I ordered a HomePod the day they were announced. But you'd have to pay me to be part of the first wave of A series Macs. Second is a maybe, third, I'd consider it, by the fourth I'm positively looking forward to it. I'm glad there are people like you, who are willing to shake the bugs out on my behalf ;)
- steve_adams_86 6y ago
  I agree. Especially as a developer. Even migrating to a new version of MacOS makes me nervous, let alone new hardware architecture. I’m excited for the future, but I’ll be late to get there.
- wiredfool 6y ago
  I bought the first white x86 MacBook on the day it was announced, and it went pretty well. There was one design issue that needed fixed in the first year, but other than that it was a solid laptop for 5 years or more till it finally died. I would have waited, but I was extending the life of the previous tibook for a year prior. I’m not in the market for a laptop now, but I’m really curious about what’s in the pipeline. Oddly enough, My MBP is about as old as the tibook was in that transition, but it’s not feeling slow or ole enough to replace yet.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    > My MBP is about as old as the tibook was in that transition, but it’s not feeling slow or ole enough to replace yet. I guess you can thank Intel for a decade of stagnation.
    - wiredfool 6y ago
      I think the 2015 era MBP was also a much more durable physical design than the Titanium Powerbook g4. The keyboard is more solid, there's no paint to rub off, the panel over the dvd doesn't flex, the battery connections don't flex. Magsafe is also a better power connector than the coax plugs.
TheRealKing 6y ago
I could never become a fan of APPLE products. A selfish company that wants to have control over every aspect of the customer's digital life. If I want to develop a software, I have to be a registered developer with Apple. If I am a user, I can hardly use software developed by non-Apple-registered developers. There is now a section on my paid legally-purchased Apple Mac, over which no one has any control or access privileges, except Apple. and they are still planning to strip users of further control over their own purchased Apple device. Every step Apple has taken over the past decade has been toward isolating and stripping the rights of its customers more and more. What amazes me is how people fall for their advertisement tricks, that anyone who uses Apple products is smarter than others.

mpweiher 6y ago

Particularly if it's a fast + light + long-lasting 12" MacBook revival.

nodesocket 6y ago

I am just worried about all my developer tools (Docker, VMware Fusion, VirtualBox, brew) all breaking switching to ARM.

f6v 6y ago
Those will be ok, I’m thinking of R packages I use which build FORTRAN code on installation.
- entropicdrifter 6y ago
  If they build on installation, then Apple just needs to make sure they have build tools ready. That's easy pickings compared to porting individual packages or apps.
  - mh8h 6y ago
    gcc is not supported on the Apple Silicon yet. So anything that relies on that is going to be an issue.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
easton 6y ago
Apple demoed Docker and Parallels at the Developer State of the Union, and has written a new Hypervisor.framework for the new Macs. I think it'll be fine (I'll be sure once VirtualBox gets working on it, with the amount of trouble they've had with the new Windows Hypervisor I hope it'll be faster).
- skrtskrt 6y ago
  Does any of this mean that Docker for Mac (ARM) will be less of an insane resource hog?
  - acdha 6y ago
    Docker for Mac isn’t on x86 so it seems likely it will continue not to be.
- KnobbleMcKnees 6y ago
  I thought they'd already confirmed that x86_64 virtualization won't be possible on Silicon? If so that rules out a significant number of development use cases.
  - nottorp 6y ago
    What I've been able to find is that Rosetta will run 64 bit Intel apps, but that won't help the likes of Parallels. So there will be no way to run Windows/Intel in a VM? Or even Linux/Intel or older versions of Mac OS for that matter? That's bad.
  - snowwrestler 6y ago
    What Apple has said is that you can't run existing x86 virtualization applications on top of Rosetta 2. So you can't take the copy of Parallels you have today and run it on Rosetta 2. Which make sense, since that would be running emulation on top of an emulation--likely to be super slow. Instead, what you will do is get a new version of x86 virtualization applications (like Parallels) that run directly on top of Apple Silicon--in other words, you use them instead of Rosetta 2, not on top of Rosetta 2. That's what easton is talking about, above.
jack2222 6y ago
I'm sure they'll tout some new "Rosetta" feature like they had for the switch from PowerPC to Intel last time
- saagarjha 6y ago
  They already have–but not for virtualization, it's just for apps.
entropicdrifter 6y ago
Docker already runs fine on ARM Linux, I can't imagine porting to Apple's ARM flavor of Unix is that much harder
- saagarjha 6y ago
  This isn't really how it works. I mean, it won't necessarily be difficult, but having it working on ARM Linux means very little for it working on macOS.
  - larkost 6y ago
    I disagree. On MacOS (x86) Docker runs inside a VM; which is running Linux (since Docker needs Linux kernel features). On the forthcoming ARM version of MacOS, it will need to run a VM, running the ARM version of linux. So having Docker working on the ARM version of linux is a good portion of the work needed to get it to run on ARM MacOS. You still have to get the VM and communications setup done, but Apple has already said they have done much of that work.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Linux working on ARM is not new work at all.
      - entropicdrifter 6y ago
        But setting up a VM to run Linux on ARM on top of MacOS on ARM is new work
skrtskrt 6y ago
Isn’t brew just ruby scripts?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Yes, but it builds a whole lot of software that does things like hardcode "10.x" as a macOS version number or treat "ARM Darwin" as iPhone.

dmix 6y ago

Mind if I ask why? It will take quite some time for everything to be ported. And there will always be the longtail that never will be.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
OldHand2018 6y ago
I've got a 2017 MBP and am planning to get rid of it before the 4 year keyboard service program ends on it. My iPad Pro has become my default mobile device, so I'd prefer to get something like a Mac Mini and am hoping they have something worth buying. The current Mac Mini is just a hard no at this point.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jamil7 6y ago
I’ll probably grab a pro machine if they announce one since I’m sitting on a 2013 macbook pro, it still goes great but I’m starting to feel compile times eat up a bit of my day. Most of what I need to work, XCode, Docker and a web browser will be available.
MuffinFlavored 6y ago
I use Chrome, Sublime Text, Terminal, WhatsApp, Messages, Skype, Discord, Hex Fiend, Calculator, AnyDesk, Ghidra, and Notes. What would I be waiting for port wise day 1?

hugi 6y ago

You're not alone. My 2019 15" MacBook was damaged beyond repair just before they announced the ARM transition. I decided to wait and I've been programming on a 2012 Mac Mini for the past few months. Amazing machine considering it's age, but I'm very ready for a new one.

samatman 6y ago

I have a rule of thumb with Apple: get the fourth iteration of any new offering. I don't always apply it, admittedly: I ordered a HomePod the day they were announced. But you'd have to pay me to be part of the first wave of A series Macs. Second is a maybe, third, I'd consider it, by the fourth I'm positively looking forward to it. I'm glad there are people like you, who are willing to shake the bugs out on my behalf ;)

steve_adams_86 6y ago
I agree. Especially as a developer. Even migrating to a new version of MacOS makes me nervous, let alone new hardware architecture. I’m excited for the future, but I’ll be late to get there.
wiredfool 6y ago
I bought the first white x86 MacBook on the day it was announced, and it went pretty well. There was one design issue that needed fixed in the first year, but other than that it was a solid laptop for 5 years or more till it finally died. I would have waited, but I was extending the life of the previous tibook for a year prior. I’m not in the market for a laptop now, but I’m really curious about what’s in the pipeline. Oddly enough, My MBP is about as old as the tibook was in that transition, but it’s not feeling slow or ole enough to replace yet.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  > My MBP is about as old as the tibook was in that transition, but it’s not feeling slow or ole enough to replace yet. I guess you can thank Intel for a decade of stagnation.
  - wiredfool 6y ago
    I think the 2015 era MBP was also a much more durable physical design than the Titanium Powerbook g4. The keyboard is more solid, there's no paint to rub off, the panel over the dvd doesn't flex, the battery connections don't flex. Magsafe is also a better power connector than the coax plugs.

TheRealKing 6y ago

I could never become a fan of APPLE products. A selfish company that wants to have control over every aspect of the customer's digital life. If I want to develop a software, I have to be a registered developer with Apple. If I am a user, I can hardly use software developed by non-Apple-registered developers. There is now a section on my paid legally-purchased Apple Mac, over which no one has any control or access privileges, except Apple. and they are still planning to strip users of further control over their own purchased Apple device. Every step Apple has taken over the past decade has been toward isolating and stripping the rights of its customers more and more. What amazes me is how people fall for their advertisement tricks, that anyone who uses Apple products is smarter than others.